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Harmy's STAR WARS Despecialized Edition HD - V2.7 - MKV (Released) — Page 672

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DrDre said:

Here’s the current status of the colors for Despecialized 3.0 (with some tweaks):

Great work! My only thought this time around is that maybe the opening shots could use a bit of color separation / color contrast. Right now, they look a tad faded, with a bit too much of a brown tint IMO. In particular, we’re lacking a bit of blue all around.

The colors in the opening titles feel off to me as well. Same problem. The “Star Wars” title and opening crawl actually look slightly lime green.

Also, the green beams and the explosion both lack the “punch” that I always recall feeling when the movie first starts.

I know you’re using prints for reference, which is awesome. So I may be wrong. But I wonder if the prints aren’t as accurate as we sometimes like to think they are. I think they’re a great reference – But I also believe we can actually improve on them while also retaining the spirit of their overall look.

I actually think Harmy’s Despecialized 2.7 is a great color reference for these opening shots. You might might argue they’re tiny bit oversaturated, but they have the color separation I’m talking about:

One last note: Is that “A New Hope” line going to stay in the crawl for Despecialized 3.0? (It’s actually the one change George made that I like; but I know a lot of people on here might want that gone.) Just curious, more than anything.

Awesome work!! Can’t wait to see more! So excited for this! 🙂

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44rh1n said:

DrDre said:

Here’s the current status of the colors for Despecialized 3.0 (with some tweaks):

Great work! My only thought this time around is that maybe the opening shots could use a bit of color separation / color contrast. Right now, they look a tad faded, with a bit too much of a brown tint IMO. In particular, we’re lacking a bit of blue all around.

The colors in the opening titles feel off to me as well. Same problem. The “Star Wars” title and opening crawl actually look slightly lime green.

Also, the green beams and the explosion both lack the “punch” that I always recall feeling when the movie first starts.

I know you’re using prints for reference, which is awesome. So I may be wrong. But I wonder if the prints aren’t as accurate as we sometimes like to think they are. I think they’re a great reference – But I also believe we can actually improve on them while also retaining the spirit of their overall look.

I actually think Harmy’s Despecialized 2.7 is a great color reference for these opening shots. You might might argue they’re tiny bit oversaturated, but they have the color separation I’m talking about:

One last note: Is that “A New Hope” line going to stay in the crawl for Despecialized 3.0? (It’s actually the one change George made that I like; but I know a lot of people on here might want that gone.) Just curious, more than anything.

Awesome work!! Can’t wait to see more! So excited for this! 🙂

The titles could indeed use a little more red, but the blue in the opening shots is something of the later home video releases. All the prints show the planet in the background being gray:

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DrDre said:
The titles could indeed use a little more red, but the blue in the opening shots is something of the later home video releases. All the prints show the planet in the background being gray:

Those titles are much improved! It’s crazy how much of a difference a subtle change can make. 🙂

Any thoughts about the “Episode IV: A New Hope” lines?

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44rh1n said:

DrDre said:
The titles could indeed use a little more red, but the blue in the opening shots is something of the later home video releases. All the prints show the planet in the background being gray:

Those titles are much improved! It’s crazy how much of a difference a subtle change can make. 🙂

Any thoughts about the “Episode IV: A New Hope” lines?

That’s up to Harmy. I’m just the color guy…😉

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While I think it’s looking pretty darn great so far, I think I ought to throw my two cents into the teal walls debate. I’m sure some of it would have been visible in '77, but it would have been projected with very warm bulbs, which would have counteracted the teal in the walls a bit, not a ton, but a bit. I don’t have much of a preference, as I think either way is going to be “accurate” in one sense or another. However, I do think you’ve gone a bit overboard on that teal look in certain shots. For instance, I’m seeing quite a bit of teal in Leia’s dress in some of those shots, which I don’t think would have been the case. It may have picked up a bit from the walls around the edges of her dress, but it’s not reflective enough of a material, I think, to have the wall color drastically affect our perception of the dress color itself.

Just a little nitpick, but I think it’s worth addressing.

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Darth Lucas said:

While I think it’s looking pretty darn great so far, I think I ought to throw my two cents into the teal walls debate. I’m sure some of it would have been visible in '77, but it would have been projected with very warm bulbs, which would have counteracted the teal in the walls a bit, not a ton, but a bit. I don’t have much of a preference, as I think either way is going to be “accurate” in one sense or another. However, I do think you’ve gone a bit overboard on that teal look in certain shots. For instance, I’m seeing quite a bit of teal in Leia’s dress in some of those shots, which I don’t think would have been the case. It may have picked up a bit from the walls around the edges of her dress, but it’s not reflective enough of a material, I think, to have the wall color drastically affect our perception of the dress color itself.

Just a little nitpick, but I think it’s worth addressing.

Question from a person clueless in this process: how much of this would be attenuated if using a TV set to warmest (which I do) vs viewing on my relatively cool computer display?

TV’s Frink said:

I would put this in my sig if I weren’t so lazy.

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CHEWBAKAspelledwrong said:

Darth Lucas said:

While I think it’s looking pretty darn great so far, I think I ought to throw my two cents into the teal walls debate. I’m sure some of it would have been visible in '77, but it would have been projected with very warm bulbs, which would have counteracted the teal in the walls a bit, not a ton, but a bit. I don’t have much of a preference, as I think either way is going to be “accurate” in one sense or another. However, I do think you’ve gone a bit overboard on that teal look in certain shots. For instance, I’m seeing quite a bit of teal in Leia’s dress in some of those shots, which I don’t think would have been the case. It may have picked up a bit from the walls around the edges of her dress, but it’s not reflective enough of a material, I think, to have the wall color drastically affect our perception of the dress color itself.

Just a little nitpick, but I think it’s worth addressing.

Question from a person clueless in this process: how much of this would be attenuated if using a TV set to warmest (which I do) vs viewing on my relatively cool computer display?

Hard to say. One display’s warm setting won’t match another’s, and I doubt any preset would emulate a tungsten bulb very well. I think generally people target a calibrated display, and then any variation from that is considered the display’s fault/user preference. Anything other than calibrated, and you just have to feel out whether you think it looks good or not.

As for Darth Lucas’s observation, I think bulb-matching is a legit aesthetic, but if you want to do it, it should be at the very end. i.e. a neutral timing is best for this stage, as it’s ultimately just raw materials for the larger project. It will then go into the meat grinder of despecialization and grain-matching and so on, and if Harmy wants to give it that tungsten bulb touch of yellow, he can choose to do that in one global final color pass.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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Darth Lucas said:

While I think it’s looking pretty darn great so far, I think I ought to throw my two cents into the teal walls debate. I’m sure some of it would have been visible in '77, but it would have been projected with very warm bulbs, which would have counteracted the teal in the walls a bit, not a ton, but a bit. I don’t have much of a preference, as I think either way is going to be “accurate” in one sense or another. However, I do think you’ve gone a bit overboard on that teal look in certain shots. For instance, I’m seeing quite a bit of teal in Leia’s dress in some of those shots, which I don’t think would have been the case. It may have picked up a bit from the walls around the edges of her dress, but it’s not reflective enough of a material, I think, to have the wall color drastically affect our perception of the dress color itself.

Just a little nitpick, but I think it’s worth addressing.

The teal walls may have been painted like that so they’d show up as a cool white on film. Like how the Superman suit was teal so it would look blue on film. IMHO set photos as a color reference isn’t always accurate when it comes to movies shot on film. A lot of things are colored a certain way on set so they appear the way the director wants them to look projected.

Luke astro-projects himself to Salt Lake Planet, gets shot at by gorilla walkers, has a non-lightsaber duel with Darth Millennial, then dies of a broken heart, inspiring broom boys throughout the galaxy to get creative with their sweeping. - DuracellEnergizer

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J0E said:

Darth Lucas said:

While I think it’s looking pretty darn great so far, I think I ought to throw my two cents into the teal walls debate. I’m sure some of it would have been visible in '77, but it would have been projected with very warm bulbs, which would have counteracted the teal in the walls a bit, not a ton, but a bit. I don’t have much of a preference, as I think either way is going to be “accurate” in one sense or another. However, I do think you’ve gone a bit overboard on that teal look in certain shots. For instance, I’m seeing quite a bit of teal in Leia’s dress in some of those shots, which I don’t think would have been the case. It may have picked up a bit from the walls around the edges of her dress, but it’s not reflective enough of a material, I think, to have the wall color drastically affect our perception of the dress color itself.

Just a little nitpick, but I think it’s worth addressing.

The teal walls may have been painted like that so they’d show up as a cool white on film. Like how the Superman suit was teal so it would look blue on film. IMHO set photos as a color reference isn’t always accurate when it comes to movies shot on film. A lot of things are colored a certain way on set so they appear the way the director wants them to look projected.

That’s why I only use set photos to support what is seen on film, and what is seen on film both on the frames, and projected is a bluish green color for the walls with creme colored panels.

Projected Derann print:

Despecialized 3.0:

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Darth Lucas said:

While I think it’s looking pretty darn great so far, I think I ought to throw my two cents into the teal walls debate. I’m sure some of it would have been visible in '77, but it would have been projected with very warm bulbs, which would have counteracted the teal in the walls a bit, not a ton, but a bit. I don’t have much of a preference, as I think either way is going to be “accurate” in one sense or another. However, I do think you’ve gone a bit overboard on that teal look in certain shots. For instance, I’m seeing quite a bit of teal in Leia’s dress in some of those shots, which I don’t think would have been the case. It may have picked up a bit from the walls around the edges of her dress, but it’s not reflective enough of a material, I think, to have the wall color drastically affect our perception of the dress color itself.

Just a little nitpick, but I think it’s worth addressing.

I’m still working on improving those shots, but with some shots being more green, others more blue, and others more pink on the 2019 SE source, it is a bit of a balancing act.

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DrDre said:

J0E said:

Darth Lucas said:

While I think it’s looking pretty darn great so far, I think I ought to throw my two cents into the teal walls debate. I’m sure some of it would have been visible in '77, but it would have been projected with very warm bulbs, which would have counteracted the teal in the walls a bit, not a ton, but a bit. I don’t have much of a preference, as I think either way is going to be “accurate” in one sense or another. However, I do think you’ve gone a bit overboard on that teal look in certain shots. For instance, I’m seeing quite a bit of teal in Leia’s dress in some of those shots, which I don’t think would have been the case. It may have picked up a bit from the walls around the edges of her dress, but it’s not reflective enough of a material, I think, to have the wall color drastically affect our perception of the dress color itself.

Just a little nitpick, but I think it’s worth addressing.

The teal walls may have been painted like that so they’d show up as a cool white on film. Like how the Superman suit was teal so it would look blue on film. IMHO set photos as a color reference isn’t always accurate when it comes to movies shot on film. A lot of things are colored a certain way on set so they appear the way the director wants them to look projected.

That’s why I only use set photos to support what is seen on film, and what is seen on film both on the frames, and projected is a bluish green color for the walls with creme colored panels.

Projected Derann print:

Despecialized 3.0:

Oh okay, I definitely see what you mean now.

Also sorry, I haven’t seen the '19 cut yet. I’m still not familiar with the color of that version.

Luke astro-projects himself to Salt Lake Planet, gets shot at by gorilla walkers, has a non-lightsaber duel with Darth Millennial, then dies of a broken heart, inspiring broom boys throughout the galaxy to get creative with their sweeping. - DuracellEnergizer

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DrDre said:

Projected Derann print:

Any idea what bulb was used for that photo? A lot of old films projected with a newer xenon bulb or some such thing will look much cooler than they would have theatrically with a vintage bulb. Not saying this one was, but it looks pretty cool to me.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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CatBus said:

DrDre said:

Projected Derann print:

Any idea what bulb was used for that photo? A lot of old films projected with a newer xenon bulb or some such thing will look much cooler than they would have theatrically with a vintage bulb. Not saying this one was, but it looks pretty cool to me.

I don’t know, but I recently saw one of these prints projected, and it looked very similar. This is also what I see on 1997 SE frames I have. I’m personally more interested in what is seen on the print, because while it’s great to use vintage bulbs, the underlying assumption is, that the bulb burns at the same temperature as it did a few decades ago, whereas I believe lights become warmer with age, and so projecting a film with a vintage bulb may not be the most accurate representation.

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DrDre said:

CatBus said:

DrDre said:

Projected Derann print:

Any idea what bulb was used for that photo? A lot of old films projected with a newer xenon bulb or some such thing will look much cooler than they would have theatrically with a vintage bulb. Not saying this one was, but it looks pretty cool to me.

I don’t know, but I recently saw one of these prints projected, and it looked very similar. This is also what I see on 1997 SE frames I have. I’m personally more interested in what is seen on the print, because while it’s great to use vintage bulbs, the underlying assumption is, that the bulb burns at the same temperature as it did a few decades ago, whereas I believe lights become warmer with age, and so projecting a film with a vintage bulb may not be the most accurate representation.

That’s a fair point about aging bulbs, but any recent projection you saw was also likely with a cooler bulb unless someone went really out of their way. Still, I like your results regardless of the bulb discussion, and that’s what matters most. I’d consider your take a neutral “what’s on the print” timing. Even if you do want to bias it for a tungsten bulb down the line, your timing is still the best place to start.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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DrDre said:

J0E said:

Darth Lucas said:

While I think it’s looking pretty darn great so far, I think I ought to throw my two cents into the teal walls debate. I’m sure some of it would have been visible in '77, but it would have been projected with very warm bulbs, which would have counteracted the teal in the walls a bit, not a ton, but a bit. I don’t have much of a preference, as I think either way is going to be “accurate” in one sense or another. However, I do think you’ve gone a bit overboard on that teal look in certain shots. For instance, I’m seeing quite a bit of teal in Leia’s dress in some of those shots, which I don’t think would have been the case. It may have picked up a bit from the walls around the edges of her dress, but it’s not reflective enough of a material, I think, to have the wall color drastically affect our perception of the dress color itself.

Just a little nitpick, but I think it’s worth addressing.

The teal walls may have been painted like that so they’d show up as a cool white on film. Like how the Superman suit was teal so it would look blue on film. IMHO set photos as a color reference isn’t always accurate when it comes to movies shot on film. A lot of things are colored a certain way on set so they appear the way the director wants them to look projected.

That’s why I only use set photos to support what is seen on film, and what is seen on film both on the frames, and projected is a bluish green color for the walls with creme colored panels.

Projected Derann print:

Despecialized 3.0:

That 3.0 Color grading looks absolutely dead on to me! Great job Dre!

Also speaking of projection bulbs, do slide bulbs yellow too? Or just 35mm bulbs?

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Brodnation said:

DrDre said:

J0E said:

Darth Lucas said:

While I think it’s looking pretty darn great so far, I think I ought to throw my two cents into the teal walls debate. I’m sure some of it would have been visible in '77, but it would have been projected with very warm bulbs, which would have counteracted the teal in the walls a bit, not a ton, but a bit. I don’t have much of a preference, as I think either way is going to be “accurate” in one sense or another. However, I do think you’ve gone a bit overboard on that teal look in certain shots. For instance, I’m seeing quite a bit of teal in Leia’s dress in some of those shots, which I don’t think would have been the case. It may have picked up a bit from the walls around the edges of her dress, but it’s not reflective enough of a material, I think, to have the wall color drastically affect our perception of the dress color itself.

Just a little nitpick, but I think it’s worth addressing.

The teal walls may have been painted like that so they’d show up as a cool white on film. Like how the Superman suit was teal so it would look blue on film. IMHO set photos as a color reference isn’t always accurate when it comes to movies shot on film. A lot of things are colored a certain way on set so they appear the way the director wants them to look projected.

That’s why I only use set photos to support what is seen on film, and what is seen on film both on the frames, and projected is a bluish green color for the walls with creme colored panels.

Projected Derann print:

Despecialized 3.0:

That 3.0 Color grading looks absolutely dead on to me! Great job Dre!

Also speaking of projection bulbs, do slide bulbs yellow too? Or just 35mm bulbs?

I think all bulbs have tendency to become less bright and warmer as they age, even the sun. 😉

I’ve updated the colors for the above shots to remove some traces of pink:

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DrDre said:

Brodnation said:

DrDre said:

J0E said:

Darth Lucas said:

While I think it’s looking pretty darn great so far, I think I ought to throw my two cents into the teal walls debate. I’m sure some of it would have been visible in '77, but it would have been projected with very warm bulbs, which would have counteracted the teal in the walls a bit, not a ton, but a bit. I don’t have much of a preference, as I think either way is going to be “accurate” in one sense or another. However, I do think you’ve gone a bit overboard on that teal look in certain shots. For instance, I’m seeing quite a bit of teal in Leia’s dress in some of those shots, which I don’t think would have been the case. It may have picked up a bit from the walls around the edges of her dress, but it’s not reflective enough of a material, I think, to have the wall color drastically affect our perception of the dress color itself.

Just a little nitpick, but I think it’s worth addressing.

The teal walls may have been painted like that so they’d show up as a cool white on film. Like how the Superman suit was teal so it would look blue on film. IMHO set photos as a color reference isn’t always accurate when it comes to movies shot on film. A lot of things are colored a certain way on set so they appear the way the director wants them to look projected.

That’s why I only use set photos to support what is seen on film, and what is seen on film both on the frames, and projected is a bluish green color for the walls with creme colored panels.

Projected Derann print:

Despecialized 3.0:

That 3.0 Color grading looks absolutely dead on to me! Great job Dre!

Also speaking of projection bulbs, do slide bulbs yellow too? Or just 35mm bulbs?

I think all bulbs have tendency to become less bright and warmer as they age, even the sun. 😉

Actually, in its current phase, the sun’s luminosity increases by 1% every 100 million years. But unless you have a new fusion projector, this is irrelevant to this project 😉

TV’s Frink said:

I would put this in my sig if I weren’t so lazy.

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Even Star Wars one day will be gone without a trace for whatever intelligent life will inhabit or come across the planet.

Well done. I will disengage self-destruct initiative.

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Challenge accepted. We have to get a preservation of the Original Trilogy into the Seed Vault.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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CourtlyHades296 said:

Is it possible to have a version with the 1981 crawl?

While I doubt Harmy will attempt this, there are many of us who have a certain unreasonable passion for the '81 crawl. A few different recreations and restorations were made to splice into 2.5 and 2.7.

I’m sure at least one of us will create one for 3.0 (not making any promises, but if I get the itch I probably will at some point).

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I’ve updated the Leia vs Vader sequence to get a better separation between Leia’s creme colored dress and the bluish green walls:

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DrDre said:

I’ve updated the Leia vs Vader sequence to get a better separation between Leia’s creme colored dress and the bluish green walls:

That looks pretty good but a tinge too warm for my taste. I set the gray point corrector in Photoshop using the gray trim on the pipes in the first shot and got something I think is a little closer to how it looked.

Edit: For some reason, that tool also lowered the blacks a bit so keep that in mind. This is just a idea

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Brodnation said:

DrDre said:

I’ve updated the Leia vs Vader sequence to get a better separation between Leia’s creme colored dress and the bluish green walls:

That looks pretty good but a tinge too warm for my taste. I set the gray point corrector in Photoshop using the gray trim on the pipes in the first shot and got something I think is a little closer to how it looked.

Edit: For some reason, that tool also lowered the blacks a bit so keep that in mind. This is just a idea

The lights are supposed to be yellowish, so the slight warmth is to be expected, but I get what you mean. Those pipes are actually creme colored, so they are not a good gray reference. Here’s how the scene roughly looks on the Derann prints: