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Harmy's STAR WARS Despecialized Edition HD - V2.7 - MKV (Released) — Page 671

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DrDre said:

Brodnation said:

DrDre said:

Brodnation said:

DrDre said:

The artifacts in the Tatooine shots can be reduced:

I think this is a bit better, what do you think?

It looks good, but these scenes did not have bright blue skies originally, so I will try to keep the colors reasonably consistent with the print references.

Fair enough, all your other grading look absolutely fantastic. Glad I was able to give my perspective. Keep up the great work!

Here’s a slight update of the C-3PO/R2-D2 desert scene:

Looks great to me!

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Speaking of Despecialized, Do we know if Harmy is going to use the D+/4K Bluray editions and or the 4K77/4K83 versions for the new editions of the project? Have there been any updates?

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Brodnation said:

Speaking of Despecialized, Do we know if Harmy is going to use the D+/4K Bluray editions and or the 4K77/4K83 versions for the new editions of the project? Have there been any updates?

That’s precisely what we’re speaking of… UHD BD will be the base for the new Despecialized as I understand.

TV’s Frink said:

I would put this in my sig if I weren’t so lazy.

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CHEWBAKAspelledwrong said:

Brodnation said:

Speaking of Despecialized, Do we know if Harmy is going to use the D+/4K Bluray editions and or the 4K77/4K83 versions for the new editions of the project? Have there been any updates?

That’s precisely what we’re speaking of… UHD BD will be the base for the new Despecialized as I understand.

Ok thanks.

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May be a bit too early to tell, but does anyone know if 3.0 will be GOUT or Theatrically synched?

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ThatPixarGuy said:

May be a bit too early to tell, but does anyone know if 3.0 will be GOUT or Theatrically synched?

That’s a big question for me too. Last time I asked him, when 4Kxx first started syncing to a new frame standard, Harmy said he had no plans to jump onto a new sync standard (the experience of finally nailing down the one we have now was harrowing enough), but things may have changed in the intervening time. 4Kxx is popular, and it may not be such a drag anymore to move to a new standard.

If so, I’ll happily sync my stuff to whatever frame standard Harmy wants to use, but I’ll need some advance notice. And certainly there are others who’ll need to do the same.

My opinion is that as long as we’re breaking sync on a lot of audio tracks, we may as well get all the major project leads together to discuss it, rather than unilaterally doing it, so we don’t just break sync again later when someone has a new idea for how things should sync. For example, in my opinion, if we’re going to go through the trouble of breaking sync, why not pad the beginning with an extra half-second of silence. That will fix issues where HDMI handshakes mute the first bit of the Fox fanfare on some systems, and it would be just as “theatrical” as any other sync standard out there, since theatrically, there were leaders and previews and such before the film anyway. I’d prefer a big difference like this over something that’s only a couple frames different, so people will know with certainty that their audio is out of sync, instead of just having a vague uncertain feeling that something’s not right, but not being able to put their finger on it.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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I would’ve preferred to just stay on GOUT-sync forever. Across the three films it’s a total of like 4 frames different. But I agree that if they can more or less agree going forward then that’s fine. I’d suggest mirroring the D+## projects since they’re already out there and seem to have all the theatrical frames.

Well done. I will disengage self-destruct initiative.

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It’s a tricky one, but I agree with Hal9000 that looking forwards is key. If there’s (say) a 99% chance that all the frames have now been found from the various 4K prints and UHD/Disney+ editions AND everyone is on board with switching to the new sync format, then I think it’s a really good idea. It would be a nuisance for a short time for the audio people to convert GOUT-synced tracks to the new standard, but afterwards there would be a new “gold” standard for all projects going forwards. (And in the future, the old GOUT-synced tracks would still be available for “legacy” projects such as Harmy’s current DE v2.x editions.)

However, if new frames are going to continue to be discovered every couple of years (*) OR different groups are going to adopt different sync standards, then things will get terribly messy and we probably would be better off just sticking with the GOUT standard.

(*) It is extremely unlikely that there are any more frames out there to be found, according to Team Negative 1.

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Bluto said:

It’s a tricky one, but I agree with Hal9000 that looking forwards is key. If there’s (say) a 99% chance that all the frames have now been found from the various 4K prints and UHD/Disney+ editions AND everyone is on board with switching to the new sync format, then I think it’s a really good idea. It would be a nuisance for a short time for the audio people to convert GOUT-synced tracks to the new standard, but afterwards there would be a new “gold” standard for all projects going forwards. (And in the future, the old GOUT-synced tracks would still be available for “legacy” projects such as Harmy’s current DE v2.x editions.)

However, if new frames are going to continue to be discovered every couple of years (*) OR different groups are going to adopt different sync standards, then things will get terribly messy and we probably would be better off just sticking with the GOUT standard.

(*) It is extremely unlikely that there are any more frames out there to be found, according to Team Negative 1.

If someone could document the frame differences between the GOUT to the new 4K Blu-rays and publish all the differences, It would probably be pretty easy to convert GOUT synced elements to the new 4K Blu-rays sync right?

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Bluto said:

It’s a tricky one, but I agree with Hal9000 that looking forwards is key. If there’s (say) a 99% chance that all the frames have now been found from the various 4K prints and UHD/Disney+ editions AND everyone is on board with switching to the new sync format, then I think it’s a really good idea. It would be a nuisance for a short time for the audio people to convert GOUT-synced tracks to the new standard, but afterwards there would be a new “gold” standard for all projects going forwards. (And in the future, the old GOUT-synced tracks would still be available for “legacy” projects such as Harmy’s current DE v2.x editions.)

However, if new frames are going to continue to be discovered every couple of years (*) OR different groups are going to adopt different sync standards, then things will get terribly messy and we probably would be better off just sticking with the GOUT standard.

(*) It is extremely unlikely that there are any more frames out there to be found, according to Team Negative 1.

Either that, or everyone’s going to get the project, and re-up it GOUT synced. That eliminates all the issues with getting the old tracks synced to the new video source. There’s already a GOUT synced version of 4k83 out there.

The only reason 4k83 wasn’t GOUT synced is TN1 wanted to use the original audio track on the release print because of how well preserved it was. There was no need to sync to GOUT for audio tracks. I don’t know why that prompted a conversation of whether or not we should jump ship to a new standard. And if someone wanted the 4k83 track synced to GOUT, they could do it. Not only that, but it would also break timing of a lot of our subtitles. IMHO it isn’t worth it, literally no one is going to notice a handful of frames.

Luke astro-projects himself to Salt Lake Planet, gets shot at by gorilla walkers, has a non-lightsaber duel with Darth Millennial, then dies of a broken heart, inspiring broom boys throughout the galaxy to get creative with their sweeping. - DuracellEnergizer

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J0E said:

The only reason 4k83 wasn’t GOUT synced is TN1 wanted to use the original audio track on the release print because of how well preserved it was. There was no need to sync to GOUT for audio tracks. I don’t know why that prompted a conversation of whether or not we should jump ship to a new standard. And if someone wanted the 4k83 track synced to GOUT, they could do it. Not only that, but it would also break timing of a lot of our subtitles. IMHO it isn’t worth it, literally no one is going to notice a handful of frames.

I don’t think that’s the main reason. From what I have read in the other forum, the underlying reason that 4K83 wasn’t GOUT-synced was that TN1 wanted to preserve the entire film: not just the audio, but the actual frames too - even though there were only a couple of extra ones. IMHO, they have made the right call in the long term, provided that the leaders of other major projects are in agreement going forwards. But I take your point that in the short/medium term, it may be a lot of work for those involved in subtitles/audio tracks to convert everything to a new standard.

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Changing the subtitles would be trivial in terms of effort. It would even be unnecessary if the change was just a couple frames (e.g. to the 4Kxx timing). If Harmy decides to change to a standard that’s neither GOUT nor 4Kxx (which would fix at least two issues with the current situation*), then subtitles could still be used, with an offset (and so could some audio). Rendering the subtitle graphics could still take a week or so, but that’s a fire-and-forget process. All I need is lead time.

Audio would take some work to modify, no doubt about that. Much advance notice would be nice.

* the HMDI handshake muting part of the fanfare on some systems, and users not knowing if their audio is properly synced or not, even while watching.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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4Kxx is a full on preservation, whereas Despecialized seems to have pivoted towards a somewhat modern restoration. So in my opinion, GOUT sync makes sense to me for Despecialized.

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Bluto said:

J0E said:

The only reason 4k83 wasn’t GOUT synced is TN1 wanted to use the original audio track on the release print because of how well preserved it was. There was no need to sync to GOUT for audio tracks. I don’t know why that prompted a conversation of whether or not we should jump ship to a new standard. And if someone wanted the 4k83 track synced to GOUT, they could do it. Not only that, but it would also break timing of a lot of our subtitles. IMHO it isn’t worth it, literally no one is going to notice a handful of frames.

I don’t think that’s the main reason. From what I have read in the other forum, the underlying reason that 4K83 wasn’t GOUT-synced was that TN1 wanted to preserve the entire film: not just the audio, but the actual frames too - even though there were only a couple of extra ones. IMHO, they have made the right call in the long term, provided that the leaders of other major projects are in agreement going forwards. But I take your point that in the short/medium term, it may be a lot of work for those involved in subtitles/audio tracks to convert everything to a new standard.

Oh okay, I understand. I completely agree for this release. I think it is pretty important to preserve all the frames of a restoration if they’re available. I get it from that angle.

On the other hand, It seems pretty common to loose a few frames between reel changes in theatrical showings and in official restorations.

@catbus
Noted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ussCHoQttyQ (also someone please do your part, it’s one dislike off from being neutral)
JEDIT: No one touch it. There is balance in the Force…

Luke astro-projects himself to Salt Lake Planet, gets shot at by gorilla walkers, has a non-lightsaber duel with Darth Millennial, then dies of a broken heart, inspiring broom boys throughout the galaxy to get creative with their sweeping. - DuracellEnergizer

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I guess we could compromise on this by releasing a GOUT synced version and a theatrically synced version. There wouldn’t be many synced subtitles or audio for the theatrically synced version but at least it would be available for those who want it

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Genemon123 said:

I guess we could compromise on this by releasing a GOUT synced version and a theatrically synced version. There wouldn’t be many synced subtitles or audio for the theatrically synced version but at least it would be available for those who want it

No, the endless fragmentation of public releases really does a disservice to the community.

Personally I’m in favour of GOUT sync. Frames on reel changes are extended to allow for changeover, they don’t NEED to all be accounted for. But if we choose to make a new sync, commit, don’t look back.

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Here’s the first Tantive IV shot, which clearly shows the subtle color differences of the walls:

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Here’s the current status of the colors for Despecialized 3.0 (with some tweaks):

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Did you raise some of the pinks to get more of the color in the off white panels? R2 on tatooine looks great, 3P0 looks great.

“The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.” - DV

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act on instinct said:

Did you raise some of the pinks to get more of the color in the off white panels? R2 on tatooine looks great, 3P0 looks great.

Yes! 😃

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I think we need to move forward to theatrical sync. GOUT sync was a flawed system to begin with, however useful it was. ESB and ROTJ have different frame counts/missing frames depending on if you used the NTSC or PAL versions, and the audio was off by two frames half way through the Jedi NTSC GOUT, which is the one everyone decided to sync to. Theatrical sync has every frame and proper audio sync based on actual film prints, GOUT sync was based on cheap-and-nasty LD->DVD transfers. It was the best we had back then, but not anymore. It’s time to retire GOUT sync imo.

Having said all that, isn’t theatrical sync the same as GOUT sync for Star Wars anyway? I don’t recall any dependencies with Ep 4 other than one frame at the end of reel 5 that was on the DVD/BD but not on any prints or the GOUT so it was omitted.

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calculon559 said:

Having said all that, isn’t theatrical sync the same as GOUT sync for Star Wars anyway?

No, Star Wars GOUT sync isn’t the same as theatrical. 4K77 isn’t theatrical sync, they decided to GOUT sync that one. It’s only one frame different. 4K83 was the first project that decided to test the non-GOUT-synced waters.

So yeah, if we go with theatrical, we’re breaking sync for 4K77 and all of Harmy’s projects (and countless minor/derived projects). And we could even opt to break sync for everything if anyone entertains my crazy ideas about how to implement the theatrical frame standard. Which is kinda why I want the project leads to get together and hammer out some sort of agreement, because it has the makings of a giant cluster if each project just decides to just do its own thing.

This illustrates why the GOUT standard had such staying power – it’s been used since 1993 (a decade before the GOUT it’s currently named for existed), so all kinds of projects gravitated to it for mutual compatibility. You could take an audio track from a 20-year-old Laserdisc preservation project and drop it onto Despecialized released yesterday and it would sync perfectly. Changes to this frame standard should be done in a careful, considered, coordinated manner.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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CatBus said:
No, Star Wars GOUT sync isn’t the same as theatrical. 4K77 isn’t theatrical sync, they decided to GOUT sync that one. It’s only one frame different.

That wouldn’t happen to be the one frame at the end of Reel 5 I mentioned, would it?

CatBus said:
If we go with theatrical, we’re breaking sync for 4K77 and all of Harmy’s projects (and countless minor/derived projects). And we could even opt to break sync for everything if anyone entertains my crazy ideas about how to implement the theatrical frame standard. Which is kinda why I want the project leads to get together and hammer out some sort of agreement, because it has the makings of a giant cluster if each project just decides to just do its own thing.

This illustrates why the GOUT standard had such staying power – it’s been used since 1993 (a decade before the GOUT it’s currently named for existed), so all kinds of projects gravitated to it for mutual compatibility. You could take an audio track from a 20-year-old Laserdisc preservation project and drop it onto Despecialized released yesterday and it would sync perfectly. Changes to this frame standard should be done in a careful, considered, coordinated manner.

Completely agree, if there’s gonna be this big shift, which I think should happen, it’s needs to be done right.