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Harmy's STAR WARS Despecialized Edition HD - V2.7 - MKV (Released) — Page 666

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bttfbrasilfan said:
Could you, please, make a tutorial on how to grade and export(in SDR) HDR Blu-rays or general video/media files in Resolve? Or at least point the way?

Sure. I’ll write up a full guide later today after work.

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Harmy said:

I am now in contact with oohteedee and we’re talking about collaborating on v3.0 using his D+xy versions as a basis and despecializing them further.

I have said before that now that we have 4K77 and 4K83 as 100% true theatrical preservstions (with 4K80 hopefully coming soon) the focus of Despecialized can shift to being what a modern transfer of the movie, if the SE never existed, could be. This is why I don’t think power-windows, not 100% theatrically accurate grading or redone wipes and such are really a problem.

Which one’s first up? You’d mentioned Star Wars was your new focus at some point, is that still true? Very glad to see it coming together.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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oohteedee said:

I have talked with Harmy and my D+77 and D+80 projects are going to be the basis for Despecialized v3.0.

These projects are mostly theatrical already so this saves him a lot of time.

This will be a collaboration effort between us.

My existing projects are 100% 4K sourced.

What about ROTJ?

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I’d just like to point out this thread has officially reached the devil’s number of pages ;p

Move along.

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stretch009 said:

oohteedee said:

I have talked with Harmy and my D+77 and D+80 projects are going to be the basis for Despecialized v3.0.

These projects are mostly theatrical already so this saves him a lot of time.

This will be a collaboration effort between us.

My existing projects are 100% 4K sourced.

What about ROTJ?

I hadn’t planned on doing a D+83 (Jedi) simply because I think 4k83 would be superior in more ways as it’s already completely theatrical.

Stotchy has stated he’s going to create a D+83.

All the restoration is done for Jedi so it would be very easy to create a D+83 or Despecialized using 4K83.

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Harmy said:

I am now in contact with oohteedee and we’re talking about collaborating on v3.0 using his D+xy versions as a basis and despecializing them further.

I have said before that now that we have 4K77 and 4K83 as 100% true theatrical preservstions (with 4K80 hopefully coming soon) the focus of Despecialized can shift to being what a modern transfer of the movie, if the SE never existed, could be. This is why I don’t think power-windows, not 100% theatrically accurate grading or redone wipes and such are really a problem.

Color grading and recomposited wipes are a given for a modern transfer based on the original negatives, but power windows to differentiate foreground/background elements for 3D feels noticeably different, at least based on none’s comparisons.

I wouldn’t be too torn up if they appeared in 3.0, but it seems a shame. Is there any idea how many of these power windows exist in the OT?

Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change? - oojason
Episode 9 Rewrite THE SHATTERED SWORD (Complete!)
The Force Awakens Restructured (V3 Released!) and The Starlight Project (WORKPRINT RELEASED!)

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NeverarGreat said:

Harmy said:

I am now in contact with oohteedee and we’re talking about collaborating on v3.0 using his D+xy versions as a basis and despecializing them further.

I have said before that now that we have 4K77 and 4K83 as 100% true theatrical preservstions (with 4K80 hopefully coming soon) the focus of Despecialized can shift to being what a modern transfer of the movie, if the SE never existed, could be. This is why I don’t think power-windows, not 100% theatrically accurate grading or redone wipes and such are really a problem.

Color grading and recomposited wipes are a given for a modern transfer based on the original negatives, but power windows to differentiate foreground/background elements for 3D feels noticeably different, at least based on none’s comparisons.

I wouldn’t be too torn up if they appeared in 3.0, but it seems a shame. Is there any idea how many of these power windows exist in the OT?

If Disney ever put out a “restoration” of the theatrical versions, it would have a polished color grade, including power windows. That’s standard for new 4K remasters of old films. So if Harmy can at least put out a theatrical version that’s of the same caliber to what a studio would put out, then that’s pretty great. I believe that’s all Harmy is trying to say here.

And then I think he’s also saying that if you’re looking for a true theatrical experience, with all the analogue “issues” that come with that, then the 4K77 version is what he recommends.

Basically, it seems like the 4K77 scans have sort of replaced the despecialized editions in terms of mimicking the original 1977 theatrical experience, whereas despecialized has pivoted towards having a clean, modern transfer of the theatrical cuts. And I think that’s pretty cool. It’s great to have both options.

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Yeah, I figure that for color grading purposes there will be power windows, but I was under the impression that these are beyond even color grading and directly change the brightness and contrast of certain areas to make certain parts of the image ‘pop’ more for 3D.

Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change? - oojason
Episode 9 Rewrite THE SHATTERED SWORD (Complete!)
The Force Awakens Restructured (V3 Released!) and The Starlight Project (WORKPRINT RELEASED!)

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Harmy said:

I am now in contact with oohteedee and we’re talking about collaborating on v3.0 using his D+xy versions as a basis and despecializing them further.

the focus of Despecialized can shift to being what a modern transfer of the movie

That said, will original opening logos still be preserved? I know some (not all) studios use newer logos on restorations of classic films, but I think for the despecialized crowd original logos are important.

TV’s Frink said:

I would put this in my sig if I weren’t so lazy.

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Harmy said:

So, if someone could help me with the proper HDR workflow, it would be appreciated. I don’t even really want to make the final result 4K HDR - I’d like the result to be a regular BD, as I feel like this way the sources will match better and there shouldn’t be a significant loss in quality anyway but would like to source the HDR BDs to use the better dynamic range for color-grading.

bttfbrasilfan said:

44rh1n said:

Hey Harmy, thanks for the update. Love your work. Here are my two cents. You’ll definitely be able to do more with the new UHD rips than the new HD rips, because of the wide color gamut and 10-bit color. Even if your final delivery is in SDR, having the HDR version as a source will give you more details to pull from, especially in the shadows. Essentially, you can use it the same way you’d use Log camera footage. It will need to be graded though, otherwise it will look very flat. The other alternative would be to use the UHD source tonemapped to SDR, but in my opinion a tonemapped version would serve as an inferior source because you wouldn’t have that wide color gamut to work with anymore.

You can bring HDR footage into DaVinci Resolve and export it as ProRes (or TIFF/EXR/DPX, although those are overkill IMO), without tonemapping, and then that would serve as your best source for creating an SDR restoration with a custom grade. Resolve doesn’t handle MKV-wrappped files though, so you’d first need to rewrap an HEVC MKV remux to HEVC MP4 with ffmpeg (I recommend the GUI called Hybrid). I’d be happy to walk you through how to do any of this if you’d like. (Or I could do it myself and send the files to you, if someone can provide the BD UHD remuxes).

Just feel free to DM me if you want me to walk you through anything! Working with HDR footage is pretty simple once you wrap your head around it. 😃

Could you, please, make a tutorial on how to grade and export(in SDR) HDR Blu-rays or general video/media files in Resolve? Or at least point the way?

Hey Harmy, oohteedee, bttfbrasilfan, Chewielewis, and anyone else who’s interested – I just published my guide for how to work with 4K HDR Blu-ray Rips in SDR. Hope it helps. https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/1340983/action/topic#1340983

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ThiefCobbler4ever said:

Honestly, Empire has never looked better!:
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=17513638&postcount=69701
It really captures how the film looked back in 1980.

Holy cow, that’s a jump up. Beautiful… Be interesting to see how that’s improved upon.
The guy/people who did the the color grading for the original blu-ray should be shot.

Harmy said:

I will definitely try to add grain to them - ideally real scanned 35mm grain, which I might even be able to extract
from Star Wars scans to keep it super-authentic.

That would be so good!
Re the HDR… it sucks anyway, as you can tell from Vincent’s video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGZmMjPJiAk
Probably best to wait n see what happens with the 50th anniversary release.

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CHEWBAKAspelledwrong said:

Harmy said:

I am now in contact with oohteedee and we’re talking about collaborating on v3.0 using his D+xy versions as a basis and despecializing them further.

the focus of Despecialized can shift to being what a modern transfer of the movie

That said, will original opening logos still be preserved? I know some (not all) studios use newer logos on restorations of classic films, but I think for the despecialized crowd original logos are important.

I think it’s more along the line of: Harmy used to walk a fine line between making the Blu-ray release that never was, and preserving the theatrical experience. Now with the existence of 4Kxx, he doesn’t have to do that anymore.

I don’t recall the logos were ever a judgment call, but there were plenty of others. Harmy wrestled with adding burn marks to Tantive 4, ultimately landing on the “Blu-ray” side and not adding them. He once added a hair to a shot that’s in all the prints*, which is on the “Theatrical” side. He cropped rounded corners onto Empire Strikes Back, which again was for a theatrical feel. And so on.

What we get with the “Blu-ray release that never was” approach is not trying to make it look like a projection print when it’s not. You mostly won’t notice anything at all, except it will just seem crisp and clean (but not degrained, thankfully). I can’t see big things like the logo changing.

* I believe this addition was eventually dubbed the “space pube”, but I could be wrong.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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Space pube will likely be back, as it was only removed because the shot was recomped digitally 😂
The logos will be original, no question. 😊

  • www.facebook.com/despecialized
  • IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THE DESPECIALIZED EDITIONS, PLEASE READ THE FIRST POSTS OF THESE THREADS, WHICH HAVE UP-TO-DATE INFORMATION: SW, ESB, ROTJ, 97SE RE-ED
    IF YOU DON’T FIND WHAT YOU’RE LOOKING FOR THERE, TRY ASKING IN THE APPROPRIATE THREADS - MOST REGULAR POSTERS KNOW ALL THE ANSWERS AND SOMEONE WILL LIKELY BE ABLE TO HELP YOU.
    IF I GET A PM WITH A QUESTION, WHICH COULD HAVE BEEN ANSWERED THROUGH THESE MEANS, IT WILL BE IGNORED. SORRY BUT I AM NOT THE LOCAL INFO BOOTH. THANK YOU.
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I’d be interested to see if none could help Harmy and ooteedee out with restoring the film grain from 35mm scans, maybe by using some combination of noting differences with the DIF tool (https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/DIF-Difference-tool-to-spot-visual-changes-Current-2004-vs-2019/id/13179/page/2#1340050) conforming the image registration based on those results and then blending sources to bring back 35mm film grain detail where its been scrubbed.

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I thought about that but I don’t think it would be possible without creating lots of unwanted artifacts.

  • www.facebook.com/despecialized
  • IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THE DESPECIALIZED EDITIONS, PLEASE READ THE FIRST POSTS OF THESE THREADS, WHICH HAVE UP-TO-DATE INFORMATION: SW, ESB, ROTJ, 97SE RE-ED
    IF YOU DON’T FIND WHAT YOU’RE LOOKING FOR THERE, TRY ASKING IN THE APPROPRIATE THREADS - MOST REGULAR POSTERS KNOW ALL THE ANSWERS AND SOMEONE WILL LIKELY BE ABLE TO HELP YOU.
    IF I GET A PM WITH A QUESTION, WHICH COULD HAVE BEEN ANSWERED THROUGH THESE MEANS, IT WILL BE IGNORED. SORRY BUT I AM NOT THE LOCAL INFO BOOTH. THANK YOU.
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Another thing is adding print grain, given the mission, would be excessive, since the best Blus today come from OCNs and therefore have relatively fine grain fields.

Maybe the way to go would be to try to replicate the grain field from a quality Blu of a film from the same era shot on similar stock.

TV’s Frink said:

I would put this in my sig if I weren’t so lazy.

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CHEWBAKAspelledwrong said:

Another thing is adding print grain, given the mission, would be excessive, since the best Blus today come from OCNs and therefore have relatively fine grain fields.

Maybe the way to go would be to try to replicate the grain field from a quality Blu of a film from the same era shot on similar stock.

Another option would be to analyze the grain patterns from the prints and then use a grain generator plugin, such as the one built into Resolve, to perfectly replicate it. It technically wouldn’t be “real” scanned grain, but the end result would likely be a closer approximation to the print than just hoping to find a grain sample that happens to be a perfect match.

Some purists might not like this idea, but this is a technique used in very high end restoration. IMO, the look of the end result is what matters most.

And FWIW, that’s how I got the grain to look perfect in my Fellowship of the Ring Extended color restoration.

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NeverarGreat said:

Yeah, I figure that for color grading purposes there will be power windows, but I was under the impression that these are beyond even color grading and directly change the brightness and contrast of certain areas to make certain parts of the image ‘pop’ more for 3D.

This is more of what my concern was. One of None’s difference examples shows a mid-shot exposure change on Luke to remove a shadow that he walks out from under. That’s a fundamental change to the photography and on-set lighting. I don’t think that sort of thing belongs in a theatrical restoration official or not, especially since if an official restoration of Star Wars was made on the level of other classic films, such changes to the image wouldn’t have been made, at least not as egregious as that example. It would make sense if this was done to assist in the creation of the 3D version.

But those are just my thoughts.

Army of Darkness: The Medieval Deadit | The Terminator - Color Regrade | The Wrong Trousers - Audio Preservation
SONIC RACES THROUGH THE GREEN FIELDS.
THE SUN RACES THROUGH A BLUE SKY FILLED WITH WHITE CLOUDS.
THE WAYS OF HIS HEART ARE MUCH LIKE THE SUN. SONIC RUNS AND RESTS; THE SUN RISES AND SETS.
DON’T GIVE UP ON THE SUN. DON’T MAKE THE SUN LAUGH AT YOU.

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Power windows are extremely common in almost every single modern restoration of any film that was photochemically graded. If the goal of this is to make the “official Blu that never was,” power windows would really just make it even more “accurate” to that goal. I don’t see an issue with them, frankly.

a trolling bantha

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44rh1n, I agree about the grain - that may be the best way to go. I might add a little bit more grain than the average modern remastering to hide the artifacts from the excessive denoising and also to better blend the sources but nowhere near print grain levels.

Also, I have been waiting forever for someone to replicate the theatrical grading of Lotr Fotr on the EE but I have fallen out of the loop on fan - restorations. Is your color restoration available anywhere, please?

  • www.facebook.com/despecialized
  • IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THE DESPECIALIZED EDITIONS, PLEASE READ THE FIRST POSTS OF THESE THREADS, WHICH HAVE UP-TO-DATE INFORMATION: SW, ESB, ROTJ, 97SE RE-ED
    IF YOU DON’T FIND WHAT YOU’RE LOOKING FOR THERE, TRY ASKING IN THE APPROPRIATE THREADS - MOST REGULAR POSTERS KNOW ALL THE ANSWERS AND SOMEONE WILL LIKELY BE ABLE TO HELP YOU.
    IF I GET A PM WITH A QUESTION, WHICH COULD HAVE BEEN ANSWERED THROUGH THESE MEANS, IT WILL BE IGNORED. SORRY BUT I AM NOT THE LOCAL INFO BOOTH. THANK YOU.
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Oh, Harmy, you’ve got to snag 44rh1n’s FOTR regrade, it’s excellent! I’d send you the link if I could find it, but that may have been part of my PM inbox spring cleaning…

a trolling bantha

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ChainsawAsh said:

Power windows are extremely common in almost every single modern restoration of any film that was photochemically graded. If the goal of this is to make the “official Blu that never was,” power windows would really just make it even more “accurate” to that goal. I don’t see an issue with them, frankly.

In general, yes, but there are some specific atrocious examples. I believe Harmy already dealt with a brightened Vader in a hallway shot on the Blu-ray. I imagine that any alteration that just plain looked bad would be worth fixing. Just like a wipes might not be redone in general, but a wipe would be worth redoing if it showed the SE version of Ben’s hut, for example. There’s a lot of judgment calls, and Harmy’s standards are always more stringent than my own, so I’m good with whatever he does.

Oh, Harmy, you’ve got to snag 44rh1n’s FOTR regrade, it’s excellent!

Quoted for truth.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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Found it on the spleen - excellent!

  • www.facebook.com/despecialized
  • IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THE DESPECIALIZED EDITIONS, PLEASE READ THE FIRST POSTS OF THESE THREADS, WHICH HAVE UP-TO-DATE INFORMATION: SW, ESB, ROTJ, 97SE RE-ED
    IF YOU DON’T FIND WHAT YOU’RE LOOKING FOR THERE, TRY ASKING IN THE APPROPRIATE THREADS - MOST REGULAR POSTERS KNOW ALL THE ANSWERS AND SOMEONE WILL LIKELY BE ABLE TO HELP YOU.
    IF I GET A PM WITH A QUESTION, WHICH COULD HAVE BEEN ANSWERED THROUGH THESE MEANS, IT WILL BE IGNORED. SORRY BUT I AM NOT THE LOCAL INFO BOOTH. THANK YOU.
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Harmy said:

Hi, guys, I know I haven’t updated you in quite a while and it’s because I haven’t really been working on Despecialized.

One reason was that I have been waiting for the new 4K Blu-Rays to come out and now they have and together with the 4K77 project, they should be a great source for a version 3.0 - they do seem to offer have more detail than the 2011 BDs, even though the DNR is pretty awful, but I will definitely try to add grain to them - ideally real scanned 35mm grain, which I might even be able to extract from Star Wars scans to keep it super-authentic.

Right now there are several problems with using the new UHD masters though.

  1. The UHD Blu-Rays haven’t come out in Europe yet, as far as I know.
  2. They are really expensive, so I’ll have to think twice before purchasing them when they do.
  3. Even if I buy them, I don’t even have a UHD player, let alone UHD BD drive, so I haven’t got the ability to rip them or even view them.
  4. Even if I could rip them or get them in some other way, I have no idea how to properly work with HDR streams.

So, if someone could help me with the proper HDR workflow, it would be appreciated. I don’t even really want to make the final result 4K HDR - I’d like the result to be a regular BD, as I feel like this way the sources will match better and there shouldn’t be a significant loss in quality anyway but would like to source the HDR BDs to use the better dynamic range for color-grading.

But maybe, in the end, it would be best to just use the regular BD versions of the new transfers, which would eliminate all the above problems and I could work as I am used to.

The main reason work on Despecialized has slowed down significantly in recent years is that I have a full-time job in the visual effects industry and, frankly also more of a social life, so I have far less time to work on Despecialized and, to be honest, also less drive, because after coming home from work, where I stare at a monitor all day and work on VFX, I seldom feel like doing the same thing at home.

Another reason is that the 4K77 version is wonderful and for my own viewing pleasure it is quite sufficient and I actually really enjoy it for its retro-charm.

But it is still more of a preservation of what the experience of watching a slightly beat-up print in drive-in theater would have been rather than what a proper modern transfer of a milestone film should look like and that’s what Despecialized v3.0 should supplement, when it gets finished.

In my country, the COVID-19 crisis, at least so far, hasn’t reached a point where it would prevent me from going to work, so I’m still working, albeit, since there’s no new productions being made, the post production side of things is winding down as well. But after the current big work-project is finished, which should be at the end of may, I’d like to take some time off and finally get going on Despecialized again. I’m not sure, though, if, given the current economic climate, I’ll be able to afford to do that.

If it would help at all, I can rip the UHD disks and you can download from my server. Let me know if interested.