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Harmy's STAR WARS Despecialized Edition HD - V2.7 - MKV (Released) — Page 284

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ireactions said:

I do love the Despecializations, but one moment always really jumps out at me:

We get the "You don't need to see his identification scene in HD" -- 

But then we get this extremely grainy, low-res shot:

I know that no HD version of this shot exists and it's been altered so much in the Special Edition with new elements in the foreground that it's impossible to simply replace the background. But does anyone have any ideas for what could possibly be done to make this one shot fit in better? Noise reduction? A new matte background that's been rebuilt to resemble the original but in higher resolution? A new 3D model built to resemble the speeder and its occupants?

Just curious. The restoration/despecialization process is fascinating.

I think Harmy did it intentionally. The shot always looked like bantha poodoo, and Harmy tries to make the movie looks as close as possible to the original 1977 version. It still looks MUCH better than the 2006 DVD

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djchaseb said:

Also that shot was always very grainy.  Last thing I would want is noise reduction.  I love film grain.

I used to hate grain. Now, after seeing dozens of HD movies with moving wax figures replacing the actors, I prefer grain too :-)

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For me, the only difference between mkv and BD is menus.  As much as I like the idea of menus, it is the content that is most important.

So, if the choice was between mkv now or a later BD (that might still be rushed and have to be modified), my preference would be for mkv.  I don't just mean for the movie, but for the extras as well.

When the dust finally settles and everyone is happy that everything is the best it can be and no more changes required, then perhaps a final BD with menus and all extras can be created when Harmy has time.

Of course I will be happy with whatever Harmy decides to do as he is the one putting in the effort with time constraints and it is much appreciated.  A BD with as many extras as available now and a supplementary disc of extras later is completely acceptable too.

As I said, it is all about getting the content:  there are ways to reformat material for those who prefer simple BD structure instead of mkv (albeit each element would be its own BD).  Plus, given a swag of mkv, it is not that difficult to convert them to m2ts and provide the menu files as a separate download that, altogether, could be burned as a complete BD.

I kinda think too, that releasing something basic where the end user may have to make some effort to get it how they want it, keeps attention off the studios:  if it's released as a complete, beautiful Bluray that looks like a finished commercial product that anyone can easily grab, then perhaps the studios might take notice.

It would be unfortunate to create a finalised 2.1 BD, only to discover that something was not quite right and have to be corrected and then the whole thing completely downloaded again.

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YanniD said:

For me, the only difference between mkv and BD is menus.  As much as I like the idea of menus, it is the content that is most important.

So, if the choice was between mkv now or a later BD (that might still be rushed and have to be modified), my preference would be for mkv.  I don't just mean for the movie, but for the extras as well.

It would be unfortunate to create a finalised 2.1 BD, only to discover that something was not quite right and have to be corrected and then the whole thing completely downloaded again.

His issue wasn't not being able to get the film itself ready for a BD release, it was not being able to give the bonus content its due. A couple pages back he said that he'll release a BD version (with very few extras, if any) and release much more bonus material once the entire trilogy is complete on a separate disc. I think that's 100% the way to go - I'd much rather have a BD version. I can watch MKV fine but I can't create menus and everything and I have a bunch of friends and family who wouldn't be able to watch it if they couldn't just stick the disc in their players and navigate via a simple menu. Also, without a bunch of bonus content occupying the same disc as the film itself you'll be able to maximize bitrate. Seeing as the film itself is your prime concern (and not bonus features) I can't imagine why you wouldn't greatly prefer a BD-ready version assuming you have the capability to burn it, and it's not as if there'd be more bonus features right now if he released it as an MKV instead.

And you'd have the same exact re-downloading problem if the MKV was "not quite right," I'm not really sure what the distinction you're making between the MKV and BD-ready DL is in that respect.

Harrison Ford Has Pretty Much Given Up on His Son. Here's Why

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Sometimes the sabers are too bright, for sure, but the reason for that is because they were inserted from the GOUT, which has fairly severe clipping of the white levels, and so this somewhat blown-out appearance can't really be recovered to what it ought to be.  Despite that, it definitely looks miles ahead of the rubbishy 2004 replacements.

As for the speeder shot, apparently that always looked kind of bad in the original (I saw a comment somewhere from one of the people who worked on that part of the film, saying that it could have been better if they'd had a few more days to get the composite right), but given the lack of quality sources available to work from, I think what Harmy was able to achieve with it is nothing short of astounding.

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dlvh said:

 

I feel that the light sabers are a VERY important part of this story, and that they should look as good as they did in the theaters in 1977!

I feel the same way, which is why I spent hundreds of hours putting back the original lightsabres from GOUT - it's admittedly still not perfect, for the reasons hairy_hen mentioned but still better than the SE.

 

Theatrical Capture...

 

What exactly do you mean, theatrical capture? This picture is apparently from the Special Edition.

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Stinky-Dinkins said:

And you'd have the same exact re-downloading problem if the MKV was "not quite right," I'm not really sure what the distinction you're making between the MKV and BD-ready DL is in that respect.

I was thinking more about audio and extras changes than the movie video:  having to download a revised BD is more onerous than downloading a modified audio track or extra.

If a BD is ready to go, then fine, but I thought mkv's might provide more time to get a final BD ready without as much time pressure, whilst still giving the enthusiasts the content that they crave.

Harmy is primarily doing this for his own needs and I am appreciative for being able to gain access to the content, so I will be happy with whatever Harmy decides to release.

I personally like the idea of components that an enthusiast can put together however they like.  Making it at least a little challenging helps keep the studios off our backs I think.  Create a shiny BD that looks like a commercial offering and make it easy for anyone to download could attract studio attention.

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 (Edited)

I haven't tried my hand on creating a BD menu yet, so I'll see how difficult that will be and then we'll see - I'll leave it at that for now.

As to the lightsabres again, I actually discovered, that the source even closer to the look of the lightsabres but also to the overall coloring of the scene on the IB print reference is the 97SE (during the duel - Luke's sabre was already recomposited in 97). Unfortunately I discovered that when I was like 90% done with replacing the duel lightsabres with GOUT, plus the 97SE is heavily cropped.

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dlvh said:

 

Now I know previously that Harmy wanted these type of "problems/errors" or whatever you want to call them, be reported to him in a PM, which I did, and he gave me his permission to post this to the the forum. 

Harmy has (rightly) lifted that request on the grounds that he doesn't want to censor people's criticisms and discussions.

Personally, I would be *very* interested to see people talk about areas of the Despecialization where the process is flawed. The only places where I've felt the seams showed were the shot of the speeder in Mos Eisley and in RETURN OF THE JEDI where the added smoke to the GOUT-frames of Jabba fades away in a very unnatural manner, losing density, then staying consistent for a bit, then losing density again, then staying consistent, then disappearing entirely. But my interest isn't in criticizing Harmy, but rather in better understanding the process and the work and maybe what solutions could be used, if any exist.

If the shot of the speeder in Mos Eisley was a grainy, blurry mess in the original version because they didn't have enough time to do the composite as well as they could have and that's how it'd be no matter where the shot was taken (unless it's a new HD transfer) -- well, I just learned something I didn't know before! Thanks! :-D

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ireactions said:





dlvh said:

 

<span style="font-size: 12px; line-height: 14.383333206176758px; ">Now I know previously that Harmy wanted these type of "problems/errors" or whatever you want to call them, be reported to him in a PM, which I did, and he gave me his permission to post this to the the forum. <span style="white-space:pre"> </span></span>



Harmy has (rightly) lifted that request on the grounds that he doesn't want to censor people's criticisms and discussions.

Personally, I would be *very* interested to see people talk about areas of the Despecialization where the process is flawed. The only places where I've felt the seams showed were the shot of the speeder in Mos Eisley and in RETURN OF THE JEDI where the added smoke to the GOUT-frames of Jabba fades away in a very unnatural manner, losing density, then staying consistent for a bit, then losing density again, then staying consistent, then disappearing entirely. But my interest isn't in criticizing Harmy, but rather in better understanding the process and the work and maybe what solutions could be used, if any exist.

If the shot of the speeder in Mos Eisley was a grainy, blurry mess in the original version because they didn't have enough time to do the composite as well as they could have and that's how it'd be no matter where the shot was taken (unless it's a new HD transfer) -- well, I just learned something I didn't know before! Thanks! :-D


No problem! I think that since a lot of us have never seen a high definition version of the OUT, it's hard to really know these sorts of things, unless you hang out on this board a lot! :D

As per the Jedi/Smoke shot...that was necessary since George Lucas had spliced in a cutaway shot of Bobba Fett flirting with one of the dancing girls for the SE. Since Harmy didn't have a good source to fill in those few seconds, he was faced with a choice. One of them was cutting away to Chewbacca - making the scene less gringe worthy, but changing it all the same - or spicing in the GOUT which would have stood out like a sore thumb...but being the genius he is, he came up with a compromise of just matting the GOUT jabba around an HD matte of the palace and filled the frame with smoke so as to hide the obvious drop in quality.

What’s the internal temperature of a TaunTaun? Luke warm.

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ireactions said:

 

 

If the shot of the speeder in Mos Eisley was a grainy, blurry mess in the original version because they didn't have enough time to do the composite as well as they could have and that's how it'd be no matter where the shot was taken (unless it's a new HD transfer) -- well, I just learned something I didn't know before! Thanks! :-D

According to George this shot was the reason why he decided to do "a few" changes to the 1997 re-release (this shot + he wanted to add the Jabba scene)

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I'm liking the slight change on those (Ben) shots! Makes it a little less blown out with brightness, and gives things a little nicer tone. Thanks for sharing those, taking a second look, and making some changes there :)
...hoping to view 2.0 again soon, hopefully with girlfriend.

Not sure what it is about this time of year, but I always watch the whole trilogy at least once through. Can't think of a better way to do so than with these editions.

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 (Edited)

Here's a hypothetical plan:

1. Release movie as AVCHD

2. Release movie as mkv with a single soundtrack.

3. Release other soundtracks as synchronised individual files (maybe in multiple formats for each soundtrack).

4. Release extras as individual mkv files.

5. Enthusiasts mux their own soundtrack configuration to mkv with Mkvtoolnix (optionally convert to BD with ClownBD or experiment with basic menus with MultiAVCHD).

6a. Harmy works on his own BD and when happy releases all folders and files (except the video m2ts files) plus a template of conforming video m2ts files.

6b. Enthusiasts augment their mkv files, where required, to match Harmy's template, using Mkvtoolnix.

6c. Enthusiasts convert mkv files to m2ts with ClownBD and rename according to Harmy's template.

6d. Enthusiasts add m2ts files to Harmy's files and folders and voila, a BD complete with menus that should match Harmy's and without having to download a complete BD again.

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I just checked the Ben-new.mp4 to see the difference, did you make 2.1 slightly brighter? it's hard for me to tell but i do see some slight colour differences. Also is this scene now closer to the I.B print your working from, or closer to what some people wanted the scene to look like?

Edit: I just checked the screenshots and now see it looks better to me in 2.1, great work Harmy :)

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@dlvh: About the brighter lightsabers: Harmy did rotoscope in the sabers from the GOUT.

Here's a shot from the Senator screening and the same shot from the GOUT:

So while the GOUT lightsabers are a bit blown out and not perfectly true to the original, like Harmy says: They're still better than the SE.

It would take an insane amount of work if one were to recreate the true original lightsabers. And while negative1's team might have a source where the lightsabers look even better, I don't think Harmy or anyone would wanna spend more hundreds of hours to rotoscope them again, at least for now.

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I agree with you You_Too, it would be a lot of work to rotoscope the sabers to look theater correct...maybe not so much for the Luke and Ben scene perhaps, but the Vader and Ben scene, would be a massive untertaking. It could be done, but does Harmy (or anyone else) really want to put that much work into those selected scenes?

Perhaps team -1 will indeed be able to expose the true theater look of all of the saber scenes, only a bit more time will tell...we can only hope so!

You mentioned the SE lightsabers, what did they look like? Where those the ones that were incorrectly colored?

dlvh

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dlvh said:

You mentioned the SE lightsabers, what did they look like? Where those the ones that were incorrectly colored?

The most incorrectly colored one was Luke's saber in the scene in the Falcon. In the 2004 SE it was green.

In the shot you and I posted, it looks like this:

97 SE, TB broadcast:

2011 blu-ray: (I don't have access to the 2004 SE right now)

If you look closely, the angle of the bottom of the blade is wrong in the SE, if you compare to the GOUT and Senator shot.

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YanniD said:

Here's a hypothetical plan:

1. Release movie as AVCHD

2. Release movie as mkv with a single soundtrack.

3. Release other soundtracks as synchronised individual files (maybe in multiple formats for each soundtrack).

4. Release extras as individual mkv files.

5. Enthusiasts mux their own soundtrack configuration to mkv with Mkvtoolnix (optionally convert to BD with ClownBD or experiment with basic menus with MultiAVCHD).

6a. Harmy works on his own BD and when happy releases all folders and files (except the video m2ts files) plus a template of conforming video m2ts files.

6b. Enthusiasts augment their mkv files, where required, to match Harmy's template, using Mkvtoolnix.

6c. Enthusiasts convert mkv files to m2ts with ClownBD and rename according to Harmy's template.

6d. Enthusiasts add m2ts files to Harmy's files and folders and voila, a BD complete with menus that should match Harmy's and without having to download a complete BD again.

Or we could just:

1: DL the BD-ready file and burn it to disc.

Harrison Ford Has Pretty Much Given Up on His Son. Here's Why

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analog said:

crissrudd4554 said:

crissrudd4554 said:

Hi again guys. I tried multiAVCHD but it failed during the conversion process. Didn't matter because I realized afterwards that this wasn't what I was looking for anyways. From what I could see it would convert the movie to a DVD file which I would open in another program then burn it to DVD. That's not exactly what I was going for. I'm trying to BURN it to a DVD with the audio tracks and still retain a good percentage of the high quality. I burnt the original file the other month ago with Burn but 1. The DVD skipped in a few areas 2. It only incorporated 1 audio track 3. Quality was fair but a bit boxy in some areas. I opened the original file with Nero but Nero will only incorporate one audio track. I think the same goes for Toast. The only program I've used to burn a DVD of the DeSpecialized edition that also incorporated the audio tracks was ConvertX. However, the quality was essentially the same as Burn, a bit boxy in some areas. So I ask again does anyone know any programs that will BURN the movie to a DVD with the audio tracks and decent quality.

Anybody got anything?

There has already been a DVD conversion, but I don't know where it's available, or what audio track(s) it contains.. Do you mean to burn to a DVD with ALL of the audio tracks included in the other editions? That would be unrealistic, if you also expect high quality video...

Your best bet is one or two audio tracks, and even better, to author a "DVD9" formatted version if you really want the best quality. MPEG2 converted from these just isn't going to be "perfect" unless you do some very specific things - encoding for it requires specific knowledge of the codec, a good encoder, and some tricks that you might not be familiar with...

If a good existing DVD conversion is still out there, perhaps somebody can PM you?
For encoding, there are other forums/websites that might be better suited to this topic..
If the DVD doesn't exist, I'd be willing to give it a shot, but only with blessings, and even then, it'd only be really worth it if it turns out nice enough to be worthwhile.

 

No I do not want all the tracks. The ConvertX program I used before allowed me to select which tracks I wanted. MultiAVCHD also allowed me to do this however when I used that program it failed during conversion. Also I think if conversion on that program had been successful it would have only converted it to a folder and I would have to use another program to burn the DVD. But that's my problem. I need a program that will burn the movie with the tracks. Nero only converts one track, Toast only converts one track, Burn only converts one track. The only program that i have used that burnt the movie to a DVD with the audio tracks of my choice is ConvertX but the picture quality was a bit boxy in some areas, not the regular quality of an average DVD. I'm not saying the DVD has to be HD but at least the normal quality for a DVD.

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crissrudd4554 said:

No I do not want all the tracks. The ConvertX program I used before allowed me to select which tracks I wanted. MultiAVCHD also allowed me to do this however when I used that program it failed during conversion. Also I think if conversion on that program had been successful it would have only converted it to a folder and I would have to use another program to burn the DVD. But that's my problem. I need a program that will burn the movie with the tracks. Nero only converts one track, Toast only converts one track, Burn only converts one track. The only program that i have used that burnt the movie to a DVD with the audio tracks of my choice is ConvertX but the picture quality was a bit boxy in some areas, not the regular quality of an average DVD. I'm not saying the DVD has to be HD but at least the normal quality for a DVD.

Since everything is going Bluray now, wouldn't it be easier to invest in a media player or cheap Bluray player that will at least playback HD from a flashdrive and output at whatever resolution you want?

If you still want a DVD, burn to DVD9 as DVD5 is much too compressed and will produce artifacts.

IIRC DVD is limited to a combined maximum bitrate of 10Mbps for the sum of all tracks:  as you increase the number of audio tracks, the maximum bitrate of the video track must reduce.

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Stinky-Dinkins said:

Or we could just:

1: DL the BD-ready file and burn it to disc.

Sure, if you want to wait until it is complete (Harmy doesn't have much experience with menu creation), download soundtracks that perhaps you don't want and run the gauntlet of studio DMCA takedowns that will inevitably result from a polished BD.

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Didn't dark_jedi have a Blu-ray release?

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YanniD said:

Stinky-Dinkins said:

Or we could just:

1: DL the BD-ready file and burn it to disc.

Sure, if you want to wait until it is complete (Harmy doesn't have much experience with menu creation), download soundtracks that perhaps you don't want and run the gauntlet of studio DMCA takedowns that will inevitably result from a polished BD.

Your better off getting the AVCHD, the quality wont be much different from a mkv and you can easily change it to a mkv and add soundtracks etc. A polished BD would not make any difference on that situation, shiny or not.