logo Sign In

Harmy's STAR WARS Despecialized Edition HD - V2.7 - MKV (Released) — Page 122

Author
Time

mverta said:


Just as the CG additions of slapstick comedy at the start of the Mos Eisely sequence instantly undoes Obi-Wan's warning of how dangerous and villainous the town is, undermining the bad guys undermines the heroes, and destroys the drama.
I never put that together! Obi-wan tells them to be cautious, but in the next shot we see its only because no one is a responsible driver and the streets are clogged with dinosaurs.

Star Wars Revisited Wordpress

Star Wars Visual Comparisons WordPress

Author
Time

bspaunhorst said:

OK, so I am about half way through the workprint so far, and I am very excited about it!  However, I do have one thing that I noticed.

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

If you look to the left of C3PO, although it seems brighter than V1.0, it almost starts to get a little pixelated through the brightness.  V1.0 was a darker shot overall, and the rest of the shot looks much better in V2, but there are a few times in this same sequence where Owen is talking to C3PO where this happens.

Other than this, it looks great so far.  I will be sure to let you know if I find anything else.

That shot looks perfect.

I love everybody. Lets all smoke some reefer and chill. Hug and kisses for everybody.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Harmy, I know you're sick of the whole color correction debate, but some of the tatooine scenes just don't look warm enough to me.  And yes, I know you're dealing with the awful color timing of the blu-rays, so I'm not even sure if something close to the original can even be achieved.  This particular scene really jumped out at me as it looks a little too sepia-toned .    Below is a shot of the GOUT, DeEd V2, and the 70mm scan. (i dont have access to DeEd V1 right now)

GOUT

DeEd V2:

70mm scan: I doubt the colors are accurate in this scan, so I don't know if anything can be learned from it. Maybe mverta can comment on this. I just read about his latest screening, and he remarked that the movie is "a lot warmer than you think."

“In the future it will become even easier for old negatives to become lost and be “replaced” by new altered negatives. This would be a great loss to our society. Our cultural history must not be allowed to be rewritten.” - George Lucas

Author
Time

Cobra Kai - that is EXACTLY the scene I was talking about. It looks really as terrible as the official DVD and BluRay :-(

Author
Time

What film stock is that 70mm printed on? It looks to me like Eastman; it doesn't look very low-fade...

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Yeah, the 70mm scan is clearly faded and blown out and the GOUT has boosted reds.

And as to looking just as bad as the DVD and BD, I think you need to take another look:

DVD:

DeEd v2.0 WP:

Author
Time

Well I just watch the WP. Very happy with what I saw. I wasn't being a color police.  just seeing how all the scenes looked.

Harmy,  I think you got a home run.

 

Troy 

looking for HDTV of the  Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith.  Also HDTV of The Lord of the Rings trilogy

Author
Time

Harmy said:

 

And as to looking just as bad as the DVD and BD, I think you need to take another look:

Hi, I hope you understand that it wasn't meant to be an "insult" or something but what I was trying to say is that when I've seen it I immediately had the same "No no no no no - this is wrong" feeling, just like I had when I was watching the 2004 DVD.

As I wrote, for the most part I really enjoyed what I've seen :-)

Zombie's page unfortunately doesn't have this exact frame, but other frames from this sequence have the correct "feeling" after applying his "trick"

http://savestarwars.com/goutcorrect-starwars.html

 

 

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Troyig88 said:

Well I just watch the WP. Very happy with what I saw. I wasn't being a color police.  just seeing how all the scenes looked.

Harmy,  I think you got a home run.

 

Troy 

I think most everybody here would agree Harmy is doing a great job.  I think it looks awesome so far.  the blu-ray is obviously a less than ideal source, so I almost feel bad bringing up color concerns like this. This scene just seemed "off" to me as it looks semi sepia-tone, so I decided to point it out. 

 

 

“In the future it will become even easier for old negatives to become lost and be “replaced” by new altered negatives. This would be a great loss to our society. Our cultural history must not be allowed to be rewritten.” - George Lucas

Author
Time
 (Edited)

While you cannot trust the luminance in the following references, you can trust the hue about 98%. When seen in a scan, or by eye, there also tends to be a bit more perceived separation of tonality than appears here, where it's almost approaching a sepia-like quality. But color-wise, these are damn, damn close. These are from some 3800 shots I took of a private screening of a pristine Tech IB print of Star Wars (far superior to Senator, which has a lot of platter damage).  While there's more information on the Legacy site, in essence they were shot on a Canon 5D, whose white balance had been set to match the known color temperature of the projector's light source, and screen reflectance (around 6000k, for those interested).

 

Remember that the colors you are seeing are only as accurate as your monitor is calibrated and capable of displaying.

 

And yes, Harmy's doing a great job.

_Mike

View the Restoration and join the discussion at StarWarsLegacy.com!

Author
Time

mverta said:

While you cannot trust the luminance in the following references, you can trust the hue about 98%. When seen in a scan, or by eye, there also tends to be a bit more perceived separation of tonality than appears here, where it's almost approaching a sepia-like quality. But color-wise, these are damn, damn close. These are from some 3800 shots I took of a private screening of a pristine Tech IB print of Star Wars (far superior to Senator, which has a lot of platter damage). 

This is really depressing. I think I prefer not knowing it looks THIS good and I will never get to see it projected :O(

I think I give up...

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Even before seeing Mike's screenshots, I was going to point out that the yellow in those desert shots needs to be significantly increased to approach the right look.  I noticed the near-total desaturation of that scene in the 2004 master years ago, and it's bugged the heck out of me every time I've seen it.  I have no idea whether adding that much yellow to the image will also allow for maintaining realistic skin tones, since the source is so messed up, or if there's even enough colour depth left in it to work with at all, but having an accurate reference is very helpful.  The skin tones are already wrong to begin with, being way too much of a dark brown, so changing them is pretty much needed anyway, I think.

I'll make another point about the same scene, a difficulty that I'd anticipated in advance but waited to comment on until seeing it for sure in the workprint.  The shots of R2 hiding from the sandpeople that are taken from the HD broadcast rather than the Bluray (since the Bluray has those ridiculous rocks shoved in front of him) have some sickly magenta highlights, most noticeable in the rock to the right of the frame.  This sort of thing has been almost completely eliminated from the movie thanks to You_too's Photoshop wizardry on the Bluray footage, but these broadcast shots have not had the benefit of this refinement, and I highly recommend asking him to give them a go as well.

 

Completely agree with Mike's assessment of the blast doors line, by the way.  Despite a few small mistakes, nearly everything about the stereo and 70mm tracks is spot-on perfect in terms of mixing choices, while the mono (while making a few legitimate improvements) is basically the 'SE' of the original audio tracks.  The blast doors line ruins the scene and is a display of flawed revisionist judgement that foreshadows what would happen to the movie later on.

Author
Time

We're all guilty of it - it's the nature of the artist, who is possessed of a divine, perpetual dissatisfaction.  But you have to learn to let go; to know that when the bell rings, it's time to put the pencil down.  They were mixing the mono AFTER the film was already in theaters playing to sell-out crowds. 

 

_Mike

View the Restoration and join the discussion at StarWarsLegacy.com!

Author
Time

You do know there was a very valid technical reason for the mono mix, right?

Nobody in 1977 knew if Dolby stereo was a flash in the pan or here to stay.

See any movies in Sound 360 lately?

Comparing the mono mix to the SE changes is mind boggling. There are many films that have different sound mixes. It's just that Star Wars' mixes has been documented in excruciating detail.

I watched Krull on DVD recently, and noticed a line was added when Liam Neeson's character dies in the stereo mix. It wasn't in the 5.1 mix, which I presume was derived from the 70mm.

Forum Moderator

Where were you in '77?

Author
Time
 (Edited)

hairy_hen said:

I have no idea whether adding that much yellow to the image will also allow for maintaining realistic skin tones, since the source is so messed up, or if there's even enough colour depth left in it to work with at all

 

My fear is that the release source has been degraded/messed up past the point where you could get back to a point of presenting the startingly natural range of colour captured in Mikes screen photos. (This is why we people need 3D films today because films don't look as naturally rich, lifelike and non-digital as this anymore)

 

 

Author
Time

Nobody's questioning the logistical or practical necessity of a mono mix.  It's the extreme creative changes they did to it - far beyond a simple line here and there - that cause the most consternation.   A simple mono fold-down of the stereo mix would've been fine.  But entire vocal performances of lines were added, altered, or re-cast, and the balance between music and fx was not as effective as in the stereo/surround mixes, where music was more present.  That a few of the additions had negative dramatic consequences just happens to make them identical to additions in the SE, which also had negative dramatic consequences. Are direct correlative relationships mind-boggling?  I suppose so, when the negative consequences are so easily avoided :)

 

_Mike

View the Restoration and join the discussion at StarWarsLegacy.com!

Author
Time

Of course it needed to be made: most theatres were still lo-fi Academy mono systems, and playing back a matrixed stereo track this way isn't quite ideal.  But there's a difference between that and doing it over again from scratch and changing lots of things that didn't need to be changed.  Honestly, I think they could have derived most of the mono version from the existing 4-track master and just tweaked it a bit for the format rather than going back to the beginning when it was already right to start with.  Seriously, the difference in balance is not subtle.

Of course there is always the temptation to go back and revisit existing work.  I've been doing that myself with the 70mm recreation.  Perhaps that is justified since it's coming out more accurate to the original this time, though the LFE channel still represents an educated guess of what it sounded like rather than absolute certainty.  But it's very important to be able to recognise what works and ought not to be changed, and exercise restraint accordingly.

 

And since this thread is about Harmy's project rather than audio tracks, I shall say no more about it.  Later on I'll post some more observations about the colour of the workprint, which for the most part is really fantastic.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

This shot, also from the screening, typifies the stylistic difference between films of that era, and later eras.  Note how warm the image is, overall.  It feels like the '70's.  We would never time images this way, today.  Plus, it has to be noted, that our projector bulbs are of a much cooler color temperature today than in the 70's, making for much bluer (arguably truer) whites. 

 

 

This screening was done with 70's era bulbs on a 70's era screen to recreate the experience of its actual projection when it first came out.

View the Restoration and join the discussion at StarWarsLegacy.com!

Author
Time

OHHHH this could go on forever!!

I used the image Harmy posted from the DVD and mucked about with it....dunno looks a bit warmer...maybe too warm

J

Author
Time

hairy_hen said:

 

  But it's very important to be able to recognise what works and ought not to be changed, and exercise restraint accordingly.

 

My understanding of George Lucas is that had to fight so much against the received wisdom of 'what worked' to produce Star Wars, that his scale of restraint got screwed up a bit.

Author
Time

Harmy,

I haven't viewed the work print, but from the screenshots posted here, I am extremely impressed.  There's a notable improvement in the color timing!  Thanks for all that you do for us.  

Author
Time

mverta said:

 

This screening was done with 70's era bulbs on a 70's era screen to recreate the experience of its actual projection when it first came out.

*weeps*