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Harmy's RETURN OF THE JEDI Despecialized Edition HD - V2.5 - AVCHD DVD9 & NTSC DVD5 (Released) — Page 85

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ksakacep said:

I personally think that there is no need to release v3.0 of all of the films at once - simply because SW v2.5 really needs an update and there is more demand for Despecialiazed SW than for ESB and ROTJ (mainly because this film is the most altered). Also, v3.0 of SW will be the biggest leap because apparently a bunch of new sources became available. But that’s just my humble opinion, of course it depends on Harmy and the rest of the community.

Anyway, really looking forward to v2.5 of ROTJ and all other future releases, thank you Harmy!

Oh come on. There’s nothing “that” wrong with SW v2.5 unless I missed something

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pittrek said:

dkeighobadi said:

I’ve always wondered whether there’s a massive difference between 720p and 1080p, especially for a film like SW. Looks great as it is!

It depends on your equipment.

And on the quality of the source material. The current release by tn1 doesn’t lose much when reencoded to 720p but the Technicolor scan they are working on seems to have much more detail.

“I want to watch Empire on my refrigerator’s LCD screen but listen to the Austrailan audio thru my USB phonograph setup and it worked on the other two movies” -yoda-sama

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SkyderHouseMafia said:

Harmy said:

Yeah, I will definitely do some workprints for v3.0s - starting from scratch, there will be a large probability of errors.

We’ll see about v2.6 - if I did one, it would be just quickly splicing TN1’s shots in place of GOUT shots into the v2.5 lossless master and maybe fixing some of the more obvious color problems (it would probably end up looking somewhat like the Respecialized Edition).

Is working on a v2.6 really worth it? I’d much prefer to have 3.0 done a couple of weeks earlier than to have a SW v2.6! It almost seems irrelevant and a waste of your precious time Harmy!

Didn’t he say elsewhere that the 3.0s would likely take a couple years to put together? I think I’d rather have a 2.6 for that long wait than shave off what ultimately seems like a a negligible amount of time.

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Harmy said:

Yeah, I will definitely do some workprints for v3.0s - starting from scratch, there will be a large probability of errors.

We’ll see about v2.6 - if I did one, it would be just quickly splicing TN1’s shots in place of GOUT shots into the v2.5 lossless master and maybe fixing some of the more obvious color problems (it would probably end up looking somewhat like the Respecialized Edition).

Maybe consider replacing your animated Dewback by the cantina, you did a good job on it, but it does stick out a bit as not 100% authentic. That and the pink haze in the blue sky around some of your other fixes, like the Dewback mounted Stormtrooper.

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yoda-sama said:

Harmy said:

Yeah, I will definitely do some workprints for v3.0s - starting from scratch, there will be a large probability of errors.

We’ll see about v2.6 - if I did one, it would be just quickly splicing TN1’s shots in place of GOUT shots into the v2.5 lossless master and maybe fixing some of the more obvious color problems (it would probably end up looking somewhat like the Respecialized Edition).

Maybe consider replacing your animated Dewback by the cantina, you did a good job on it, but it does stick out a bit as not 100% authentic. That and the pink haze in the blue sky around some of your other fixes, like the Dewback mounted Stormtrooper.

Harmy’s rotoscoping has gotten better in recent years. But I still find it very impressive how well the un-extended corridor looks, considering how much camera movement there is and, surely, gateweave present on any non-specialized source (GOUT/35mm).

I think the whole Mos Eisley entrance scene will be a stunning improvement in 3.0. He did a good job before, but the (I think) lower quality scans didn’t really pair with the BD in some cases.

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Harmy is keeping the film grain and not doing any unnecessary DVNR, correct? I want each of the STAR WARS OT films to appear as though the day they were released. Of course 1977, 1980, and 1983. Pristine prints. Of course that’d need to be from a negative or an answer print for 4K or greater scanning. Obviously that’s just nuts.

i.e. SPARTACUS, My Fair Lady, Lawrence of Arabia, and more proper remasters and restorations is what I’d love to see for the OG OT.

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Harmy’s primary source is the Blu-rays, so the grain is already massively changed from the start–see below, where you can see evidence that the Blu-ray was scrubbed clean of grain, processed, and then slathered in fake grain:

http://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/901920

As far as I know the only thing he’s doing grain-wise is grain matching, so that footage from an upscaled Laserdisc master blends better with Blu-ray footage (i.e. judicious application of fake grain). The only bits with real grain in them would be the 35mm footage (projection prints, not IP’s or negatives). It’s not Lawrence of Arabia, but the damage wasn’t done by Harmy.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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Well, here’s the deal - I do degrain the 35mm shots quite a bit and then add new fake grain to them that matches that of the Blu-Ray to make them match better. There is actually usually some slight detail loss, but it is a necessary evil, because it’s important to make the sources match a well as possible.

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It will presumably be especially needed for SW LPP based shots. What you did with that Leia test frame you posted looked very reasonable in terms of de/regraining.

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Yeah, that was a good example of the kind of thing I usually do.
For those who don’t remember, here it is:
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/158521

You can actually see the process in my video documentary as well:
https://youtu.be/QXifjbxZDAM?t=15m39s
Though the compressed youtube video doesn’t quite show just how grainy those shots were.

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mumbles_ said:
They just released a vinyl box set and according to Discogs.com Return of the Jedi has Lapti Nek and Ewok Celebration. http://www.amazon.ca/Star-Wars-Ultimate-Soundtrack-Vinyl/dp/B015NOT9AY/ref=sr_1_2_twi_lp__2?ie=UTF8&qid=1454401278&sr=8-2&keywords=john+williams+collection+star+wars

Incorrect. That version of Lapti Nek is from the 12" single, not the film version. As for Ewok Celebration, it is a version made for radio, but has most elements of the film version in it.

It’s really sad when the “creative minds” behind something we hold dear are also guilty of its destruction.

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Nearsighted Scrappile said:

mumbles_ said:
They just released a vinyl box set and according to Discogs.com Return of the Jedi has Lapti Nek and Ewok Celebration. http://www.amazon.ca/Star-Wars-Ultimate-Soundtrack-Vinyl/dp/B015NOT9AY/ref=sr_1_2_twi_lp__2?ie=UTF8&qid=1454401278&sr=8-2&keywords=john+williams+collection+star+wars

Incorrect. That version of Lapti Nek is from the 12" single, not the film version. As for Ewok Celebration, it is a version made for radio, but has most elements of the film version in it.

Correct. The film version was never released officially, was it?


**😮ver&out:
**mumbles

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RayRogers said:

chyron8472 said:

RayRogers said:

I was able to find the 720p 3GB torrent for this, along with STAR WARS and The Empire Strikes Back, but don’t know which version number it is. […]

Which version you have is shown after the end credits. After the last of the end credits scroll by, the screen fades to black and the music ends, wait about 5 seconds and the version information will appear.

[…] EDIT: For the Despecialized, STAR WARS is v2.5, The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi is MMXI. I’ll look for newer versions of the latter two.

MMXI is 2011 in roman numerals. That indicates it is v1.0

I don’t think ROTJ has an official version beyond 1.0 (yet. 2.0WP is not technically an official release.) But ESB 2.0 is out. You should get that while waiting for Harmy to finish up ESB v2.5.

TV’s Frink said:

chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.

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mumbles_ said:

Nearsighted Scrappile said:

mumbles_ said:
They just released a vinyl box set and according to Discogs.com Return of the Jedi has Lapti Nek and Ewok Celebration. http://www.amazon.ca/Star-Wars-Ultimate-Soundtrack-Vinyl/dp/B015NOT9AY/ref=sr_1_2_twi_lp__2?ie=UTF8&qid=1454401278&sr=8-2&keywords=john+williams+collection+star+wars

Incorrect. That version of Lapti Nek is from the 12" single, not the film version. As for Ewok Celebration, it is a version made for radio, but has most elements of the film version in it.

Correct. The film version was never released officially, was it?

No it wasn’t, along with some jam session music in the palace and the music played aboard the Sail Barge. The Baroque recital was released on the SE soundtrack for the first time, but that’s as far as it went, especially with that Jedi Rocks crap being introduced and released as a single.

It’s really sad when the “creative minds” behind something we hold dear are also guilty of its destruction.

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Nearsighted Scrappile said:

No it wasn’t, along with some jam session music in the palace and the music played aboard the Sail Barge. The Baroque recital was released on the SE soundtrack for the first time, but that’s as far as it went, especially with that Jedi Rocks crap being introduced and released as a single.

And it went on to be one of the best selling singles of all time. Wait… I’m thinking of something else.

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chyron8472 said:

RayRogers said:
CatBus said:

Harmy’s primary source is the Blu-rays, so the grain is already massively changed from the start–see below, where you can see evidence that the Blu-ray was scrubbed clean of grain, processed, and then slathered in fake grain:

http://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/901920

As far as I know the only thing he’s doing grain-wise is grain matching, so that footage from an upscaled Laserdisc master blends better with Blu-ray footage (i.e. judicious application of fake grain). The only bits with real grain in them would be the 35mm footage (projection prints, not IP’s or negatives). It’s not Lawrence of Arabia, but the damage wasn’t done by Harmy.

I blame Lowry for the 2004 transfers since they love DVNR and EE just about everything they received. It’s why I mentioned the more current transfers for those films I listed. Of course film remastering and restoring is a constantly advancing field.

Harmy said:

Well, here’s the deal - I do degrain the 35mm shots quite a bit and then add new fake grain to them that matches that of the Blu-Ray to make them match better. There is actually usually some slight detail loss, but it is a necessary evil, because it’s important to make the sources match a well as possible.
Of course from multiple sources. Just wish I had a company which had an 8K film scanner and also the print which is in the National Registry or whichever. Would do proper scans and proper 1977 style film-grain retention for that particular print of the film. Both 70mm and 35mm audio tracks.
The 70mm was a blow up for the “Roadshow” style releases, correct? Well, whichever avenue had or has the projector capable to screen it.

chyron8472 said:

RayRogers said:

I was able to find the 720p 3GB torrent for this, along with STAR WARS and The Empire Strikes Back, but don’t know which version number it is. […]

Which version you have is shown after the end credits. After the last of the end credits scroll by, the screen fades to black and the music ends, wait about 5 seconds and the version information will appear.

[…] EDIT: For the Despecialized, STAR WARS is v2.5, The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi is MMXI. I’ll look for newer versions of the latter two.

MMXI is 2011 in roman numerals. That indicates it is v1.0

I don’t think ROTJ has an official version beyond 1.0 (yet. 2.0WP is not technically an official release.) But ESB 2.0 is out. You should get that while waiting for Harmy to finish up ESB v2.5.

I know my roman numerals and obviously it’s a version from 2011. 😉

This forum really needs a multi-quote function.

All-in-all, I just want to have the best possible presentation, as mentioned A LOT, of STAR WARS, The Empire Strikes Back, and Return of the Jedi the day of release from their respective years. Of course I first watched them on VHS, CED, and LD back in the early 1980’s.
Of course I wouldn’t mind if Harmy, maybe he already has?, of the 1981 re-release with the EPISODE IV A NEW HOPE added to the crawl. Also need to check if someone has a very high resolution, 720p or 1080p with all grain retained etc., for the 1997 Special Editions.
Am very glad I found a fan who has the v2.5 of STAR WARS as a custom BD25 on The Spleen. Found mkv’s for TESB and ROTJ there too which would properly fit on a BD25 as a custom Blu, sans menus.

Keep up the great work, Harmy! (One nitpick, I’d love to have a ton of subtitles for the OGOT.)

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RayRogers said:

All-in-all, I just want to have the best possible presentation, as mentioned A LOT, of STAR WARS, The Empire Strikes Back, and Return of the Jedi.

“Best” is subjective. If you want the best possible Bluray-quality, Technicolor release, Harmy’s Despecialized Editions (v2.5; v2.0; and v1.0 respectively) are the latest official releases. v2.5 ESB and ROTJ are soon to come (although “soon” is a relative timeframe).

If you want the best playing-from-a-film-projector quality, Team Negative 1’s “Silver Screen Edition” would be a better choice.

Of course I wouldn’t mind if Harmy, maybe he already has?, of the 1981 re-release with the EPISODE IV A NEW HOPE added to the crawl.

No. This is beyond the scope of Despecialized Edition. This has been asked of Harmy repeatedly, and this is the answer he and everyone helping him always gives. Someone else needs to do it. Case in point: Laserschwert, not Harmy, converted the title cards and the entire crawl to reflect the original “Krieg der Sterne” German release.

TV’s Frink said:

chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.

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One could always just splice the Re-Specialized crawl into Despecialized if all they wanted was “A New Hope” and weren’t going for 1981 accuracy.

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chyron8472 said:

RayRogers said:
Of course I wouldn’t mind if Harmy, maybe he already has?, of the 1981 re-release with the EPISODE IV A NEW HOPE added to the crawl.

No. This is beyond the scope of Despecialized Edition. This has been asked of Harmy repeatedly, and this is the answer he and everyone helping him always gives. Someone else needs to do it. Case in point: Laserschwert, not Harmy, converted the title cards and the entire crawl to reflect the original “Krieg der Sterne” German release.

Yep. And if someone wants to do that, but doesn’t have the software (or desire/skill) to tweak the blu-ray shot appropriately, they can simply lop off the crawl from Harmy’s 1997 Respecialized and replace the 2.5 crawl. A simple fix that anyone making the request can pull off.

edit: walked away before submitting this and got beaten to the punch. 😃 I know you discussed it in another thread, DarthLucas, but the difference between 81 and later is just the starfield itself, right? Timing is the same?

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I think we’ll take that as a consensus.

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He’s actually said in the SW2.5 thread that he is considering releasing it with the New Hope crawl and even potentially a color scheme to fit the post-77 releases.

The Person in Question

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towne32 said:

edit: walked away before submitting this and got beaten to the punch. 😃 I know you discussed it in another thread, DarthLucas, but the difference between 81 and later is just the starfield itself, right? Timing is the same?

The star field is the star field from Empire with the position shifted and I believe Tatooine’s moons are in slightly different places. I also think there might be a slight different timing on the crawl itself but I’m not 100% on that.

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Although I have to say I wish the star field was the same. Would make my job a lot easier. Haha

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Putting the finishing touches on the last couple of things I wanted to do for ROTJ v2.5 - now I’ll have to put them into the cut and render the whole thing out - hopefully I’ll have enough time to do that today and render over-night.
One last thing I’m missing (I thought I had this but can’t find it) is the 1993 LD commentary. Does anybody have this? And ideally, I’d love it if someone would be willing to make me one like I always made for the other movies - with the silences filled with the '93 stereo mix.

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Just to be clear, you DON’T want silence filled with Jar-Jar quotes, correct?