Han and Leia's incredibly realistic fight

So I was rewatching Empire Strikes Back the other day. Every time I rewatch the OT I’m always amazed at how strongly these films manage to convey this illusion that the camera is simply a window into a real, three-dimensional world, and that just off-screen all sorts of things are happening in parallel with what we see in the frame. I posted a thread about this subject a while back.

But what really struck me specifically when rewatching Empire was a certain really extraordinary detail that contributes to conveying this illusion. Everyone remembers the scene in Echo Base where Han has decided to leave the Rebellion to go pay off Jabba, and Han and Leia get into a heated argument in a corridor. What is remarkable about this scene is that multiple times throughout the scene, Han and Leia are interrupted by random extras who walk between them or around them - just random anonymous Rebels going about their jobs. Some are carrying equipment, others are just hurrying down the hall. Han will often get out of the way, making room for the extra to squeeze by, while he’s in the middle of this heated, emotional argument with Leia.

There’s no plot or narrative reason for these constant interruptions. They happen entirely for realism (or “world-building” I guess). You rarely see this kind of realistic mundane detail portrayed in movies anymore. I can’t recall off hand a movie made after the early 1980s that does anything like this. Usually directors subscribe to a philosophy of economical film-making, where Chekhov’s Gun applies across the board, i.e. nothing happens onscreen unless it has significance to the plot or theme. Sure, pretty much every movie will have background extras, but they almost never interrupt the main action. The constant interruptions in the Echo Base corridor really convey this sense that Han and Leia are not merely “main characters”: they are real people that have to deal with the physical realities of a busy military base. This level of detail is incredibly rare to see in movies. Generally, a movie will instead make the Universe bend to the convenience of the main characters. Certainly, the later Prequel movies never did anything like this, where background environments are often artificially generated via CGI and never interact physically with main characters.

Interestingly, these constant hallway interruptions in Empire are not mentioned in the shooting script. So apparently Kershner or someone else simply improvised this, believing it contributed to the movie. It goes to show how much more immersive a movie can be when you have physical/practical sets, because it opens up all sorts of options for realistic interactions between the environment and characters.

Yeah, this is great. It has Kersh written all over it, phenomenal director. Especially in that movie.

Channel72 said:

Interestingly, these constant hallway interruptions in Empire are not mentioned in the shooting script. So apparently Kershner or someone else simply improvised this, believing it contributed to the movie. It goes to show how much more immersive a movie can be when you have physical/practical sets, because it opens up all sorts of options for realistic interactions between the environment and characters.

Quoted for truth, Channel72! 😃

That is a cracking OP on on much overlooked aspect of the OT films.

I remember being taken out of TLJ, where the escape pods are slowly being obliterated one by on by the First Order. People on these escape pods are looking out of the windows and seeing other escape pods with their friends, family, fellow Rebels on board being slaughtered. And there is nothing from the people on board. No reaction or emotion on their faces at all or from their bodies at all. There was no direction, or this was a shot used fro another scene, but for such an emotional moment, the Rebels being wiped out, you’d like to think they would at least try and get the little details right. But no.

The Prequels: I can’t remember any scenes either like those from the OT. Likely due to the green screen or blue screen CGI backgrounds, and the focus of direction. Unless it had a thousand ships or vehicles whizzing around in the background (“so dense, so very dense”), there wasn’t much going on like in the OT.

Marooned Biker Scout said:

I remember being taken out of TLJ, where the escape pods are slowly being obliterated one by on by the First Order. People on these escape pods are looking out of the windows and seeing other escape pods with their friends, family, fellow Rebels on board being slaughtered. And there is nothing from the people on board. No reaction or emotion on their faces at all or from their bodies at all. There was no direction, or this was a shot used fro another scene, but for such an emotional moment, the Rebels being wiped out, you’d like to think they would at least try and get the little details right. But no.

The Prequels: I can’t remember any scenes either like those from the OT. Likely due to the green screen or blue screen CGI backgrounds, and the focus of direction. Unless it had a thousand ships or vehicles whizzing around in the background (“so dense, so very dense”), there wasn’t much going on like in the OT.

The same here for me. It is something lacking in many films. Perhaps it is the framing, direction, or lack of immersion in modern films, in comparison to that OT era and before?

That’s just me guessing, though.

I’m going to have to go watch Empire again, appreciate it from Kershner’s crafted and patient piece of the Star Wars universe.

My guess is that in modern times, with big-budget movies in particular, the film-making process is way more streamlined and compartmentalized across different teams than it used to be. I mean, the big spectacle CGI action scenes are often developed by completely different teams working at different companies with little direct involvement from the director, apart from occasional feedback. Whereas, back in the day, you’d have Lucas or Kershner hanging out overseeing the ILM crew constructing the models and setting up VFX shots. There was still a lot of compartmentalization and outsourcing involved in the production process of course, just much less of it than today.

Marooned Biker Scout said:

The Prequels: I can’t remember any scenes either like those from the OT. Likely due to the green screen or blue screen CGI backgrounds, and the focus of direction. Unless it had a thousand ships or vehicles whizzing around in the background (“so dense, so very dense”), there wasn’t much going on like in the OT.

Yeah. The world of the Prequels is either mostly empty or a chaotic mess. The corridors of the Kamino cloning laboratory, or the halls of the Jedi Temple… where is everyone? There’s usually just the characters required for the scene and some digital backgrounds. The world feels surreal and abstract, not a real physical place you could actually visit. Then you have the opposite phenomenon where the background is a million ships or robots shooting at each other.

Channel72 said:

My guess is that in modern times, with big-budget movies in particular, the film-making process is way more streamlined and compartmentalized across different teams than it used to be. I mean, the big spectacle CGI action scenes are often developed by completely different teams working at different companies with little direct involvement from the director, apart from occasional feedback. Whereas, back in the day, you’d have Lucas or Kershner hanging out overseeing the ILM crew constructing the models and setting up VFX shots. There was still a lot of compartmentalization and outsourcing involved in the production process of course, just much less of it than today.

Those are some good points, and explains a lot how films from this genre can now now have that different feel.

Marooned Biker Scout said:

The Prequels: I can’t remember any scenes either like those from the OT. Likely due to the green screen or blue screen CGI backgrounds, and the focus of direction. Unless it had a thousand ships or vehicles whizzing around in the background (“so dense, so very dense”), there wasn’t much going on like in the OT.

Yeah. The world of the Prequels is either mostly empty or a chaotic mess. The corridors of the Kamino cloning laboratory, or the halls of the Jedi Temple… where is everyone? There’s usually just the characters required for the scene and some digital backgrounds. The world feels surreal and abstract, not a real physical place you could actually visit. Then you have the opposite phenomenon where the background is a million ships or robots shooting at each other.

Yeah, the immersion of the environments is broken somewhat, or feels off.

Contrast that to Andor, real sets, real people, reactions, everyday life on various environments, though notably Ferrix and Aldanhi, It draws us in, grounds us as viewers, we’ve been there, we identify and believe those familiar surroundings. Even when we are shown the lower levels of Coruscant, or the ISB HQ, they have the similar grounding, background extras going about their day.

(Along with some beautiful cinematography, direction and editing, of course.)

I love the discussions on here, the site forum in general, Very much with my views but offering cool new points, insights and takes.

Marooned Biker Scout said:

Contrast that to Andor, real sets, real people, reactions, everyday life on various environments, though notably Ferrix and Aldanhi, It draws us in, grounds us as viewers, we’ve been there, we identify and believe those familiar surroundings. Even when we are shown the lower levels of Coruscant, or the ISB HQ, they have the similar grounding, background extras going about their day.

(Along with some beautiful cinematography, direction and editing, of course.)

Yeah, definitely. And that’s because many of those shots on Coruscant are actually just real locations that were digitally touched up to look more Star Warsy. I think one of the locations on Coruscant is the McLaren headquarters in England, and the ISB HQ is a plaza in the Canary Wharf in London.

It’s the reason Coruscant seems so different (and more tangible) in Andor than in the Prequels.

I also liked the depiction of Coruscant in the test footage for the canceled Star Wars Underworld show. It was closer to the Prequels in style, but it also had this more grounded, Blade Runner vibe.