HD-DVDs and DVDs Superior to Blu-Ray

Here's a list of Blu-Rays arguably inferior to their HD-DVD, DVD or even LD counterparts due to some fault, such as DVNR, revisionist color timing, modernized audio mix (ie. bad foley), digital tinkering, heavy cropping, or missing scenes:

(list structure: movie- flaw- superior DVD/HD-DVD)

Inferior BD Releases

• A Hard Day's Night- modernized audio- MPI LD
• Aliens- revisionist color timing- Fox DVD
• Apollo 13- blown-out contrast, DNR(?), and color issues(?)- Universal HD-DVD (added by Silverwook)
• Army of Darkness- DVNR and EE- Universal HD-DVD
• Austin Powers 1- Censored Version- ? Japanese DVD
• Back to the Future Trilogy- DVNR and EE- Universal DVD
• Blade Runner- revisionist color timing- 1997 WB DVD (for Dir. Cut) and Criterion LD for (Int. Cut) (added by toho-scope)
• Conan the Barbarian- no theatrical version- Universal Theatrical Cut DVD
• The Deer Hunter- DVNR, EE, and contrast- Universal HD-DVD
• Dragonheart- DVNR and EE- Universal HD-DVD (added by Silverwook)
• Dumb and Dumber- no theatrical version- 1999 New-Line DVD
• Fantastic Four- no extended version- Fox Extended DVD
• Highlander- Lack of Special Features: Queen Music Videos- Immortal Edition DVD (added by Bobocop)
• Kill Bill Vol. 1- Censored Version- ? Japanese DVD
• Kingdom of Heaven- missing scenes: roadshow- Fox DVD
• Le Grand Bleu- no English audio- US DVD
• Live Free or Die Hard- no unrated version- 2008 Unrated DVD
• The Man Who Knew Too Much (1956)- severe color fading/instability issues- 2001 Universal DVD
• The Matrix- revisionist color timing (green)- 1999 WB DVD
• Mission Impossible Trilogy- MPEG2 Encoding- Paramount HD-DVDs
• Night of the Living Dead (1968)- edited and cropped- Elite DVD
• Night of the Living Dead (1990)- revisionist color timing- 2001 DVD
• Phantom of the Opera (1925)- no Carl Davis score, optional "sound" track, and post-rooftop color scene- Milestone 2003 DVD
• Robocop- DVNR and revisionist color timing- Criterion DVD
• Scream- no unrated version- Kinowelt DVD
• Spartacus- DVNR (with overlayed fake grain) and revisionist color timing- Criterion DVD
• Star Wars Original Trilogy- everything- 2006 GOUT DVDs
• The Sting- DVNR- Universal HD-DVD
• Suspiria- revisionist color timing and DVNR- Anchor Bay DVD
• The Terminator- no mono mix- 2006 Fox DVD
• Terminator 2: Judgment Day- First BD (Bad Encoding) and Skynet Edition (DVNR)- Lionsgate HD-DVD
• The Thing- DVNR- Universal HD-DVD
• The Warriors- no theatrical version- 2001 Theatrical DVD (added by Silverwook)
• Yellow Submarine- no U.S. Version- 1990 LD (added by toho-scope)

HD-DVDs are italicized, for those only interested in HD alternatives to BD.

Note I haven't included ones, such as Evil Dead II or Halloween: H20, that already have had a superior BD re-release.

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I'd like to make the list as complete as possible, so I really want to here suggestions to add to the list. If you do suggest something, I'll be sure to put your name next to it in italics (i.e. Added by...) so credit is given where credit is due.

The Kingdom of Heaven BD may lack the overture and intermission, but the picture quality makes up for it. The only reason the DVD had those interludes was because the DVD format itself made them split the film into two discs. Without that restriction, there is no need. Although I do enjoy the break. But I would never say that the DVD is better, simply because of the superior audio and video of the BD.

The Star Trek movies don't bother me, as the "directors cuts" were created for DVD anyway. Leave out the theatrical cut and the disc sucks, include the theatrical cut and the disc still sucks. It's true that they could have included both, but this is how the DVDs were anyway, with each cut it's own release--and the Blu-rays, despite some DVR, are way better than the 1990s DVDs which came out so early in the format. Like the DVDs, there will likely be expanded-cuts versions which have better picture due to later release.

SilverWook said:

The Warriors BD (Lack of original 1979 version) Walter Hill pulled a Lucas with his "Ultimate Director's Cut", but the '79 had an anamorphic DVD release in 2001 at least.

All right. I added that to the list.

You might also want to list movies that have a superior version on HD DVD as well.

Good idea. I know that they point out releases like those on AVSForum often, usually DVNR or MPEG-2 Encoding makes the BD worse. I can easily think of titles like Terminator 2, The Thing, and Army of Darkness with Superior HD-DVD releases. Does anyone have any more suggestions?

zombie84 said:

The Kingdom of Heaven BD may lack the overture and intermission, but the picture quality makes up for it... But I would never say that the DVD is better, simply because of the superior audio and video of the BD.

I see your point, but I do think it should still follow the Roadshow format. Missing the overture and intermission, to me, seems like it's missing footage. For instance, I'd be very upset if the intermission was not included in 2001; fortunately, that's not the case.

The Star Trek movies don't bother me, as the "directors cuts" were created for DVD anyway... Like the DVDs, there will likely be expanded-cuts versions which have better picture due to later release.

True. You are right about the DVD's inferior picture quality despite the DVNR. Truth by told, I wasn't positive whether I should put the Star Trek Movies on the list or not. I personally relished the Theatrical Cuts and wasn't too bothered by the DVNR. The BD is definitely a noticeable upgrade and honestly, I personally would go to the BD first. I think I'll remove that one from the list. 

A good nominee would be Conan The Barbarian. There really is no perfect version, but some might prefer the DVDs because of their cuts.

The first DVD: 1982 theatrical cut. But very poor picture quality, no extras, bad print.

The second DVD: A new directors cut, with better picture and audio, and tons of extras. But no theatrical version and picture quality still leaves some to be desired.

Blu-ray: A third version, which incorporates a few bits from the old directors cut. Extras are pretty good, but the picture quality is not the best example of Blu-ray technology.

The Blu-ray is my preferred version because of the picture quality but it's the cut I like the least. I'm still not sure why they took out the best scene from the DVD directors cut (Conan and Sabotoi making sticks on the beach) but left the boring ending which kills the crescendo. For this reason I sometimes wish I could watch the theatrical cut, but the quality of that first DVD is pretty bad.

Was hoping the Blu-ray could finally have both versions and make everyone happy but instead it made things even more complicated.

zombie84 said:

A good nominee would be Conan The Barbarian. There really is no perfect version, but some might prefer the DVDs because of their cuts.

Added. dark_jedi's Theatrical BD should remedy this situation though.

toho-scope said:

blade runner dvd and bluray 2006 briefcase and earlier dvds (colour timing)

predater 2010 blu (absurd dvnr)

yellow submarine all releases since 1999 (no us cut)

Right. I added these. Thanks. Predator was actually on there already.

most classic doctor who dvds (dvnr and missing episodes)

all arabian knight dvds (pan and scan or wobilly badly cropped widescreen transfer)

the princess and the cobbler (pan and scan only)

droids and ewoks (incomplete)

pokemon the movie (no original japenese theactrical version available)

digimon sesions 2 and 3 (english dub unavailable in any form on dvd or vhs)

yugimon 1999 tv movie (only on LD, rest of the first season commercially unavailable)

 

Point taken but aren't most of these strictly DVDs? The thread was supposed to highlight inferior BD releases, not DVD releases. Also, I didn't think the Doctor Who DVDs were bad by any means, even the old ones. The DVNR doesn't seem excessive to me, but to each his own, I suppose.

Bobocop said:

Perhaps some films just aren't meant to be seen in HD.

This is an argument I've never been sure about. Personally, I always think a film always can deserve higher resolution, but things do end up showing that normally wouldn't in theaters. Then again, back in theaters, you couldn't pause movies and analyze frame by frame. But, hmm... the alternative of digitally removing wires always seems a bit revisionist to me. I'd be interested to see the consensus if there's some films that need to be revised or not shown in HD at all. Anyway, I added Highlander for it's lack of Special Features.

captainsolo said:

I'd also add all discs with lossy audio or simply audio ported from the DVDs. Why not give the higher resolution audio we pay for?

That would make quite a comprehensive list indeed though. Sorry, but, even with lossy/ported audio, it still pretty much equals the DVDs. However, now that you mention it, I would be interested in adding BDs with inferior audio tracks to the DVDs (i.e. lower bitrate or a lack of a DTS track). I'm pretty sure there are some cases like that.

Altered list a bit and added a few, if anyone is interested. Still would love to know about more superior HD-DVDs. Welcoming suggestions if any at all.

Anyone think this thread would garner more interest in the other preservations section?

Missing episodes of Doctor Who?

Tell me more.

Ziz said: Sometimes it's restoring the correct color timing from a bad previous release.

I don't know that I'd call that revisionist color timing.

Bingowings said:

Missing episodes of Doctor Who?

I believe toho-scope was referring to the episodes of Doctor Who, which had not yet been released on DVD at the time-- not the actual "missing" lost episodes.

Ziz said:

Not that I disagree with all of them, but "revisionist color timing" isn't always a mistake.

I understand this, but I only label something with "revisionist color timing" if the general online consensus is that it is not an accurate representation of what appeared in the theaters. Example, Suspiria's multiple HD transfers with blown out contrast and oversaturated colors are said to look absolutely nothing like IB prints. I do admit that I don't have visual evidence to support all my claims.

If there's something specific item on the list, you believe is actually more like the theatrical timing, feel free to point it out.

Are you basing all these on personal preference and your own comparisons or are you accounting for professional reviews from video and home theater sites?

I'm basing these on online screenshot comparisons, personal screenshot comparisons, and general forum opinion.

If a BD has color timing that is more theatrically accurate, but I just personally don't like that re-discovered aesthetic: it will not go on the list.

SilverWook said:

I've heard Dragonheart and Apollo 13 look much better on HD DVD, but I don't have those films yet.

Online review sources corroborate your opinion. I'll add them to the list, creds to you, of course.

Been wondering if someone should collect the info out there about converting HD DVD to Blu Ray. For preservation purposes only of course.

It's rather easy, in fact- if you have an HD-DVD ripper attached to your computer.

Once the HD-DVD is ripped, no re-encoding is required for the video (usually VC1, which works with BD); typically, if you just take the movie from HDDVD30s, they'll end up fitting comfortably on a BD25. Of course, anything from an HDDVD15 will fit on a BD25. However, there are a few that do go slightly over the BD25 size requirement.

As far as the audio side of things, Dolby Digital + sadly does not work on most BD players. You can either re-encode in DTS or just take the 640kbps core out (what I tend to do).

For those that do not have HD-DVD computer players (myself included), nearly-uncompressed HD-DVD remuxs are available from the torrent side RuTorrent; PM me if you want links to something specific, but the site is pretty easy to navigate on its own.

So far, I've been able to preserve to BD the following superior HD-DVDs with relative ease: Army of Darkness, The Sting, Terminator 2: Judgment Day- Extended Cut, and The Thing. I'm looking at Deer Hunter next but that one may need video re-encoding.

Ziz said:

Bingowings said:

Missing episodes of Doctor Who?

Tell me more.

There are a number of episodes that have been lost due to accidental or intentional destruction of the film prior to the advent of home video.  (Studios used to destroy films of things they deemed no longer valuable or taking up space.)

Well yeah but what has that got to do with the topic title?

A DVD of nothing is equally as nothing as a blu-Ray of nothing or a VHS of nothing for that matter.

As for the delayed release of certain stories, it takes a while to put each package together.

There is the restoration work (which is usually top notch) on the episodes to bring as close to broadcast quality as possible, then there are all the extras (which are usually top notch too).

There are some special edition sets but they are released with the originals when possible (lessons have been learned from the early VHS releases).

I can't see any point to complain about them.

The blu-Rays are bound to lag behind because they haven't finished making all the DVD presentations yet.

I believe all of NuWho is available in box set form in both DVD and blu-Ray formats.

I'm still not entirely convinced that the non-Final-Cut colour timing of Blade Runner is off. It's definitely different than the 1992 DC DVD/LD/VHS (same source), but that's with the assumption that that particular video master was accurate in the first place. Have people actually gone back to the 1980s video transfers and seen if those are at least consistent with the 1992 transfer? I'll admit I haven't, but videophiles recently have begun having a habit of automatically assuming the BD is wrong when there is an equal chance the older version was wrong. Probably the best thing to do with Blade Runner is to check the workprint disc. It has some mis-tints, but it's right from an original film print with little to no restoration work.