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Global Warming — Page 4

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Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
*utter stupidity*


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v211/Kediredric/youfitin_001.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v211/Kediredric/inthebutt.png
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Originally posted by: Nanner Split
Darth_Evil, I'm SO glad you brought up "State of Fear." One of the most easily accessible pieces of anti-global warming information out there. I actually transcribed the essay in the back of the book, "Why Politicized Science is Dangerous", as a Myspace blog a while back. Would anyone want me to copy/paste it here?

So you're an early-age Michael Crichton reader too? Awesome! I first discovered his writing when I read "Jurassic Park" back in sixth grade, and I've been hooked ever since.


Yeah, you should copy and paste that. i think people would enjoy it. It's an excellent essay.

I read his novel Prey in fourth grade, loved it, and have read lots of his books. One of my favorites is The Great Train Robbery, and State of Fear is also one of his best. Jurrassic Park is, of course, excellent too. Prey is probably my all time favorite, with State of Fear a close second.
Watch DarthEvil's Who Framed Darth Vader? video on YouTube!

You can also access the entire Horriffic Violence Theater Series from my Channel Page.
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Originally posted by: Blackmage
Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
*utter stupidity*


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v211/Kediredric/youfitin_001.jpg


Oooooooo......and the quarterback is TOAST!!!!

Blackmage chews up morons like you Gomer and spits them out.
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Is that what just happened here?
Your focus determines your reality.
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While this is a spirited discussion and all, it needs to go in General Discussion. Just my opinion.
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"Why Politicized Science is Dangerous" by Michael Crichton

Imagine that there is a new scientific theory that warns of an impending crisis, and points to a way out.

This theory quickly draws support from leading scientists, politicians, and celebrities from around the world. Research is funded by distinguished philanthropies, and carried out at prestigious universities. The crisis is reported frequently in the media. The science is taught in college and high school classrooms.

I dont mean global warming. Im talking about another theory, which rose to prominence a century ago.

Its supporters included Theodore Roosevelt, Woodrow Wilson, and Winston Churchill. It was approved by Supreme Court justices Oliver Wendell Holmes and Louis Brandeis, who ruled in its favor. The famous names who supported it included Alexander Graham Bell, inventor of the telephone; activist Margaret Sanger; botanist Luther Burbank; Leland Stanford, founder of Stanford University; the novelist H. G. Wells; the playwright George Bernard Shaw; and hundreds of others. Nobel Prize winners gave support. Research was backed by the Carnegie and Rockefeller Foundations. The Cold Springs Harbor Institute was built to carry out this research, but important work was also done at Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford, and Johns Hopkins. Legislation to address the crisis was passed in states from New York to California.

These efforts had the support of the National Academy of Sciences, the American Medical Association, and the National Research Council. It was said that if Jesus were alive, he would have supported this effort.

All in all, the research, legislation, and molding of public opinion surrounding the theory went on for almost half a century. Those who opposed the theory were shouted down and called reactionary, blind to reality, or just plain ignorant. But in hindsight, what is surprising is that so few people objected.

Today, we know that this famous theory that gained so much support was actually pseudoscience. The crisis it claimed was nonexistent. And the actions taken in the name of this theory were morally and criminally wrong. Ultimately, they led to the deaths of millions of people.

The theory was eugenics, and its history is so dreadfuland, to those who were caught up in it, so embarrassingthat it is now rarely discussed. But it is a story that should be well known to every citizen, so that its horrors are not repeated.

The theory of eugenics postulated a crisis of the gene pool leading to the deterioration of the human race. The best human beings were not breeding as rapidly as the inferior onesthe foreigners, immigrants, Jews, degenerates, the unfit, and the feeble minded. Francis Galton, a respected British scientist, first speculated about this area, but his ideas were taken far beyond anything he intended. They were adopted by science-minded Americans, as well as those who had no interest in science but who were worried about the immigration of inferior races early in the twentieth-centurydangerous human pests who responded to the rising tide of imbeciles and who were polluting the best of the human race.

The eugenicists and the immigrationists joined forces to put a stop to this. The plan was to identify individuals who were feeble-mindedJews were agreed to be largely feeble-minded, but so were many foreigners, as well as blacksand stop them from breeding by isolation in institutions or by sterilization.

As Margaret Sanger said, Fostering the good-for-nothing at the expense of the good is an extreme cruelty.there is no greater curse to posterity than that of bequeathing them an increasing population of imbeciles. She spoke of the burden of caring for this dead weight of human waste.

Such views were widely shared. H.G. Wells spoke against ill-trained swarms of inferior citizens. Theodore Roosevelt said that Society has no business to permit degenerates to reproduce their kind. Luther Burbank: Stop permitting criminals and weaklings to reproduce. George Bernard Shaw said that only eugenics could save mankind.

There was overt racism in this movement, exemplified by texts such as The Rising Tide of Color Against White World Supremacy, by American author Lothrop Stoddard. But, at the time, racism was considered an unremarkable aspect of the effort to attain a marvelous goalthe improvement of humankind in the future. It was this avant-garde notion that attracted the most liberal and progressive minds of a generation. California was one of twenty-nine American states to pass laws allowing sterilization, but it proved the most forward-looking and enthusiasticmore sterilizations were carried out in California than anywhere else in America.

Eugenics research was funded by the Carnegie Foundation, and later by the Rockefeller Foundation. The latter was so enthusiastic that even after the center of the eugenics effort moved to Germany, and involved the gassing of individuals from mental institutions, the Rockefeller Foundation continued to finance German researchers at a very high level. (The foundation was quiet about it, but they were still funding research in 1939, only months before the onset of World War II.)

Since the 1920s, American eugenicists had been jealous because the Germans had taken leadership of the movement away from them. The Germans were admirably progressive. They set up ordinary-looking houses where mental defectives were brought and interviewed one at a time, before being led into a back room, which was, in fact, a gas chamber. There, they were gassed with carbon monoxide, and their bodies disposed of in a crematorium located on the property.

Eventually, this program was expanded into a vast network of concentration camps located near railroad lines, enabling the efficient transport and killing of ten million undesirables.

After World War II, nobody was a eugenicist, and nobody had ever been a eugenicist. Biographers of the celebrated and the powerful did not dwell on the attractions of this philosophy to their subjects, and sometimes did not mention it at all. Eugenics ceased to be a subject for college classrooms, although some argue that its ideas continue to have currency in disguised form.

But in retrospect, three points stand out. First, despite the construction of Cold Springs Harbor Laboratory, despite the efforts at universities and the pleadings of lawyers, there was no scientific basis for eugenics. In fact, nobody at the time knew what a gene really was. The movement was able to proceed because it employed vague terms never rigorously defined. Feeble-mindedness could mean anything from poverty to illiteracy to epilepsy. Similarly, there was no clear definition of degenerate or unfit.

Second, the eugenics movement was really a social program masquerading as a scientific one. What drove it was concern about immigration and racism and undesirable people moving into ones neighborhood or country. Once again, vague terminology helped conceal what was really going on.

Third, and most distressing, the scientific establishment in both the United States and Germany did not mount any sustained protest. Quite the contrary. In Germany scientists quickly fell into line with the program. Modern German researchers have gone back to review Nazi documents from the 1930s. They expected to find directives telling scientists what research should be done. But none were necessary. In the words of Ute Deichman, Scientists, including those who were not a member of the [Nazi] party, helped to get funding for their work through their modified behavior and direct cooperation with the state. Deichman speaks of the active role of scientists themselves in regard to Nazi race policy . . . where [research] was aimed at confirming the racial doctrine . . . no external pressure can be documented. German scientists adjusted their research interests to the new policies. And those few who did not adjust disappeared.





A second example of politicized science is quite different in character, but it exemplifies the hazards of government ideology controlling the work of science, and of uncritical media promoting false concepts. Trofim Denisovich Lysenko was a self-promoting peasant who, it was said solved the problem of fertilizing the fields without fertilizers and minerals. In 1928 he claimed to have invented a procedure called vernalization, by which seeds were moistened and chilled to enhance the later growth of crops.

Lysenkos methods never faced a rigorous test, but his claim that his treated seeds passed on their characteristics to the next generation represented a revival of Lamarckian ideas at a time when the rest of the world was embracing Mendelian genetics. Josef Stalin was drawn t oLamarkian ideas, which implied a future unbounded by hereditary constraints; he also wanted to improve agricultural production. Lysenko promised both, and became the darling of a Soviet media that was on the lookout for stories about clever peasants who had developed revolutionary procedures.

Lysenko was portrayed as a genius, and he milked it for all it was worth. He was skillful at denouncing his opponents. He used questionnaires from farmers to prove that vernalization increased crop yields, and thus avoided any direct tests. Carried on a wave of state-sponsored enthusiasm, his rise was rapid. By 1937, he was a member of the Supreme Soviet.

By then, Lysenko and his theories dominated Russian biology. The result was famines that killed millions, and purges that sent hundreds of dissenting Soviet scientists to the gulags or the firing squads. Lysenko was aggressive in attacking genetics, which was finally banned as bourgeois pseudoscience in 1948. There was never any basis for Lysenkos ideas, yet he controlled Soviet research for thirty years. Lysenkoism ended in the 1960s, but Russian biology still has not entirely recovered from that era.





Now we are engaged in a great new theory, that once again has drawn the support of politicians, scientists, and celebrities around the world. Once again, the theory is promoted by major foundations. Once again, the research is carried out at prestigious universities. Once again, legislation is passed and social programs are urged in its name. Once again, critics are few and harshly dealt with.

Once again, the measures being urged have little basis in fact or science. Once again, groups with other agendas are hiding behind a movement that appears high-minded. Once again, claims of moral superiority are used to justify extreme actions. Once again, the fact that some people are hurt is shrugged off because an abstract cause is said to be greater that any human consequences. Once again, vague terms like sustainability and generational justiceterms that have no agreed definitionare employed in the service of a new crisis.

I am not arguing that global warming is the same as eugenics. But the similarities are not superficial. And I do claim that open and frank discussion of the data, and of the issues, is being suppressed. Leading scientific journals have taken strong editorial positions on the side of global warming, which, I argue, they have no business doing. Under the circumstances, any scientist who has doubts understands clearly that they will be wise to mute their expression.

One proof of this suppression is the fact that so many of the outspoken critics of global warming are retired professors. These individuals are no longer seeking grants, and no longer have to face colleagues whose grant applications and career advancement may be jeopardized by their criticisms. In science, the old men are usually wrong. But in politics, the old men are wise, counsel caution, and in the end are often right.





The past history of human belief is a cautionary tale. We have killed thousands of our fellow human beings because we believed they had signed a contract with the devil, and had become witches. We still kill more than a thousand people a year for witchcraft. In my view, there is only one hope for humankind to emerge from what Carl Sagan called the demon-haunted world of our past. That hope is science.

But as Alston Chase put it, when the search for the truth is confused with political advocacy, the pursuit of knowledge is reduced to the quest for power.

That is a danger we now face. And that is why the intermixing of science and politics is a bad combination, with a bad history. We must remember the history, and be certain that what we present to the world as knowledge is disinterested and honest.



One thing that the government doesn't want you to know is that the photo Blackmage posted is actually from Blackmage's family reunion.

http://i.imgur.com/7N84TM8.jpg

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See now that is a point being well made.
Your focus determines your reality.
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Originally posted by: Nanner Split

One thing that the government doesn't want you to know is that the photo Blackmage posted is actually from Blackmage's family reunion.


http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m80/Blackmage_02/picturescatscopyaf5.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v211/Kediredric/inthebutt.png
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I sure hate to say this, but it is going to take another terrorist attack of mass proportion before these whiney leftist understand how important our security really is. I'm not wished, nor hoping, for such a thing at all. But we have so many of these guys like Go-Mer, Obi Jeewhyen, Adamwan, etc. that are so far out there and think that America is evil. They just won't understand until someone they love has been struck down by the action of the truly evil.

I really like WESHALLPRESERVE, he always makes his point with great clarity and proof. I agree with him 100% on this, both sides of the isle suck right now.

Go-Mer, hopefully it does not take someone you love dieing before you appreciate everything you have been given. Freedom. Saddam would have killed you if he had the chance. Bin-Laden will kill you if he has the chance. They do not care about your speech, your liberty, your children, your wife, your family, your nothing. They want you dead.


*oops, sorry about the double post, I dunno how that happened.
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You say they want us dead, which is why we want them dead.

It's circular logic to justify murder all the way around.

The only way to stop it is to actually stop it.
Your focus determines your reality.
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Completely 100% True-agreed--Its sad---but people need to get their minds slapped back into place----
Let me present a different situation-
Another terror attack---10x worse than 9/11--
Bush is impeached by democrat house-
Democrat president elected---
It all seems well and dandy--except martial law is declared--
You know what hapens next-
BOOM! USSR ALL OVER AGain PEOPLE!
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Woops.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
You say they want us dead, which is why we want them dead.

It's circular logic to justify murder all the way around.

The only way to stop it is to actually stop it.


So, if somebody kills you, because you did not want to kill them first....Did you accomplish your theory of stopping the circle?
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GOMER.YOUR disgusting--that circular theory is one of the most stupid elemntary ideas I have ever heard yet on this board.How are we, as americans in the 21 century supposed to deal with an enemy stuck in the 16th century? ANY IDEAS GOMER!? WE SURE CANT AS HELL ASIMULATE WITH THEM-THATS FOR GODDAMN SURE.
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Okay, now that I've read every page of this thread, I want to say that I believe "He's Back!" is probably that one guy who wanted to sue George Lucas for very stupid (but potentially lighthearted) reasons, but then proceeded to make idiotic arguments with people when they began laughing at him. The reason I'm guessing they're the same person is because . . .

1. They both hate George Lucas, a lot.
2. They both seemed more oriented towards liking the original-trilogy films (compared to the sequels and SEs), yet that liking was obviously shadowed by their hatred for the wealthy George Lucas.
3. They were both flaming, crazy, socialist-extremists.


Anyways, about Go-Mer, you guys, I wouldn't bother to read or reply to anything he says unless you intend to keep the debate very simple, always civil, and only for the purposes of exercising your own mind. He's either a troll that enjoys getting people worked up and angry (for the least amount of work on his part), or he's a guy who lives in a strange fantasy world where his logic is never required to actually work perfectly so long as he's always there to wish, with all of his heart, that it works perfectly!

In the case of him being a troll, eliciting anger and tangential arguments is exactly what he wants from you (since it makes him feel above you and at the center of his social world); so you probably don't want to give him what he wants in this case. On the other hand, I believe that it's equally futile to debate him in the possibility that he's choosing to be delusional (with regard to complicated subjects) because he'll simply not be able to connect anything you say in his mind (unless it concerns something he doesn't care about yet). Even if you were to keep your debate absolutely clear, reducing it to its most simple of terms (in an attempt to force him to see the basics of an issue), he'll simply run away from the discussion at that point and not reply. (Of course, Go-Mer could be a clear mixture of my two assessments, but, in that case, one set of behaviors is then probably more unconscious for him, in comparison to the other, and thus, again, you shouldn't bother trying to convince him of anything.)

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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After everything we know now, who still supports the invasion of Iraq?
Fez: I am so excited about Star Whores.
Hyde: Fezzy, man, it's Star Wars.
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I do!

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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WE SURE CANT AS HELL ASIMULATE WITH THEM-THATS FOR GODDAMN SURE.

Of course you can assimilate. All you have to do is give up everything you cherish as a free-thinking individual. Your music, your porn, your favorite television shows, your favorite movies (Star Wars doesn't mean shit to them), your favorite clothing, piercings, tattooing, alcohol, drugs, certain foods, and so on. You'll also have to give up on sleeping in so you can get up at the crack of dawn and start your praying. All you have to do is convert to the Islamic faith... or you die. It's really rather simple.

It shocks me that me that more feminists don't scream more about the Islamic. The way they treat their women is deplorable. It is says to me that they really don't care about women at all, just the perpetuation of liberalism.
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It's not that I am inciting you guys into rage and hate.

I'm only talking about ideas, not attacking any of you personally.

It's just a lot of you guys can't handle a debate without letting your emotions get out of hand.

I would suggest taking it easier in the future.
Your focus determines your reality.
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Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
Is that what just happened here?

Yep.....you just got buttfucked on national TV and didn't even realize it.

See now that is a point being well made.

But did it dent your thick skull, I wonder? Crichton's points are dead on and backed up with historical evidence. You say the point is well made....now what is your opinion of those points? Do you agree or disagree? I have a feeling you'll just ignore it though....

You say they want us dead, which is why we want them dead.

It's circular logic to justify murder all the way around.

The only way to stop it is to actually stop it.

This is not actually that stupid....it's pretty right on. They want us dead so we want them dead. It is in a way, circular....but I disagree with the last sentence. You can't JUST stop it. Stopping it entails that all parties agree to stop the killing. That doesn't seem likely to occur. It's a giant conundrum when you really look at it, so what are you to do? I'll use Darwinism as a defense. The strong survive and those who can't adapt to the widespread changes die off or are swept under the rug. Dislike it all you want, but that's the way it is.

Frankly Gomer.....you're opinion is fine, but that kind of thinking will get your throat cut in your sleep....cuz a previous poster is right....they'll kill you without a second thought, jump up and down and yell, cock-a-doodle-do. I don't intend to go out like that, but you are more than welcome to.

It's not that I am inciting you guys into rage and hate.


Yes, you are. Your posts incite and then back off. You then try to deflect any kind of serious debate by saying that people are personally attacking you. If you continued the debate, that would be one thing, but you don't. You just make comments like the one below.

I'm only talking about ideas, not attacking any of you personally.

It's just a lot of you guys can't handle a debate without letting your emotions get out of hand.


Debates are often fueled by emotions. That's why you debate....cuz you have your views and you want to defend them. If you can't take a few knocks for it, then that's too bad. Grow a thick skin and stop being a sissy. Then again, if you actually continued debating instead of crying...

I would suggest taking it easier in the future.


Can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen, junior.

And Tipup is right on about Gomer.....feel free to read my sig as well.
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Exactly, you really should just take it easier. I'm not the one getting all bent out of shape here, I can take the "heat" just fine.

I agree with the dangers of acting on mass hysteria instead of true knowledge.

He isn't saying that Global Warming is just mass hysteria, he's saying that he thinks some of it certainly is, and cautions us to stick to the facts on the matter.
Your focus determines your reality.
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The biggest problem with the Global Warming debate is that it detracts and politicizes things that we really should be doing anyway. We (all of us humans) should be taking better care of our planet, managing our natural resources better, reducing pollution, use of fossil fuels, etc. Whether Global Warming is real or not, a tremendous amount of damage is being done to our enviroment but it seems it is easier to debate around the problem than to actually do something about it.
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Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
Exactly, you really should just take it easier. I'm not the one getting all bent out of shape here, I can take the "heat" just fine.

If you could, then you wouldn't be crying about personal attacks so much. You should respect other people's right to get emotional on topics that are important to them. Personal attacks are wrong, but this is an internet BBS, not an official debate forum. You gotta be able to take that as it is part of it, like it or now.

I agree with the dangers of acting on mass hysteria instead of true knowledge.

He isn't saying that Global Warming is just mass hysteria, he's saying that he thinks some of it certainly is, and cautions us to stick to the facts on the matter.


I'm not getting where he's saying that......please provide a quote.