Personally, I’m more inclined to believe Marcia Lucas here. It really wouldn’t make sense to invent the whole “from a certain point of view” retcon if Vader was always supposed to be Luke’s father. Having said that, I did feel that there was slight anti-George Lucas bias with Icons Unearthed, and George, Marcia, and Sir Alec Guinness have all separately claimed to have been responsible for killing off Obi-Wan Kenobi, so there are, at a minimum, two liars in the bunch.
Personally, I’m more inclined to believe Marcia Lucas here.
2012 is rather late to spring that kind of anecdote though, wouldn’t you say? In order to add ‘suspense’ to the story/plot , all Lucas would need is Vader to claim to be Luke’s father. It doesn’t have to be true on a deep-below-the-surface story level. Huyck could make the suggestion, of course: “hey, have Vader claim to be Luke’s father”. But Huyck saying “make Vader Luke’s father” is overreaching. EMPIRE (ESB) is transitional either way - it is not the origin point of the twist. The twist either originated with JEDI, or with the first film, STAR WARS (ANH). Any honest assessment of EMPIRE not colored by hindsight, would see that it’s not conclusive either way in isolation (whether the film or the various scripts/drafts).
It really wouldn’t make sense to invent the whole “from a certain point of view” retcon if Vader was always supposed to be Luke’s father.
Actually, it does, for several reasons. The “certain point of view” came about because: One, Kasdan thought that Lucas needed to give the audience an in-story reason why Obi-Wan told Luke what he did in the first film, not because he (Lucas) needed to give the audience a reason why he (Lucas) told them one thing and not another. Two, because come JEDI, the premise for the Father Vader twist had changed: this is where Luke says that there’s still good in Vader. I don’t think this was in the first two drafts that were written solely by Lucas. Three, “He betrayed and murdered your father” was a cover-story from the get go. One, it appears rather late in the story/scriptwriting process for STAR WARS - it’s in the very last draft. That and the fact that this element appears some almost three months AFTER Lucas told collaborators in a late December 1975 meeting: “in the next film/story (the sequel), the audience will find out who Darth Vader is”. This last bit, is likely pointing to the earlier version* and origin point of the twist, that Luke’s father had taken on the identity of Darth Vader (whom he had killed) for noble intentions perhaps, but which had consequences later on. This is very aligned with 1970’s Lucas and Kurtz and their mutual admiration for Kurosawa’s films and the moral message that accompanied them. With JEDI, Lucas changed this to: Anakin (Luke’s father) had turned to the dark side. And here too, likely Lucas added the redemption subplot, which is largely based on Luke’s somewhat baffling retroactive perception of Vader’s behavior and actions in the previous film that lead him to believe that Vader was acting out of some ‘buried’ goodness. Essentially, Luke - and Lucas - was retconning EMPIRE’s Vader. In the 1983 “From Star Wars to Jedi” documentary, Lucas only claims that Vader being Luke’s father, and the helmet coming off were part of ‘the original story’. He doesn’t say that the redemption part was part of that story originally.
*the subplot from the PT about Dooku and Anakin replacing him are likely echoes of this older idea. Same with the idea Lucas had for the second draft of TPM, where Obi-Wan the master is actually killed, and his student Qui-Gon takes on his name and identity thereafter.
Personally, I’m more inclined to believe Marcia Lucas here. It really wouldn’t make sense to invent the whole “from a certain point of view” retcon if Vader was always supposed to be Luke’s father.
Same here - and pleasing they were in her own words too.
Plus, it has been refreshing and welcome experience listening to her as she has been willing to do a little more media in recent years - especially given so many fans run her down, twist her words, get angry and abusive, at mere mention of her contributions to Star Wars (and Empire, and Jedi) - even for what she stated in Icons Uncovered…
There are a few more intriguing bits and piece on (and from) Marcia here for anyone interested:-
and…
Section ‘3 C’ of ❕ An Index + ‘Info & Help’ Thread for… Original Trilogy Discussion ❕ also has a ‘mini section’ of info posts and content on Marcia and her contributions.
On the subject of the retcon that is ‘Vader is Luke father’ - something that was not a planned thing by George (a retcon that didn’t occur until as per Lucasfilm: “Darth Vader wasn’t Luke’s father until the second draft of Empire Strikes Back in April 1978.”)… then Categories #5 - 8 of George Lucas: Star Wars Creator, Unreliable Narrator & Time Travelling Revisionist… may be of interest; with a few quotes, facts, and info on the issue.
It also includes the 1976 story meeting for Splinter Of The Mind’s Eye between Charles Lippincott, Alan Dean Foster, and George Lucas…
…Their conversation was transcribed by J W Rinzler, author of the acclaimed “Making Of” books on the Star Wars films, and appeared in Star Wars Insider magazine. Among the surprises that result from their brainstorming is the fact that:
• Lucas didn’t think Vader was a strong villain
• Leia could run off with a Wookiee, and possibly be killed off, or at least get a gruesome pummeling
• Luke would be tougher and more worldly (they didn’t think they’d get Harrison Ford back)’
^ From ‘The Great Unmade? Star Wars: Splinter Of The Mind’s Eye’ by Cinetropolis. An Internet Archive back-up can be found here.
'FOSTER: The point is at the end of the picture, the impression I get-and I am still an outsider to the film-is that the princess is the princess and she doesn’t take anybody. It leaves Luke feeling disappointed because he was interested in her, but she is completely unattainable at the end of the picture. She’s just as divorced[from Luke and Han] as the other generals standing up there in the throne room. But Luke is not; Luke wants her. That’s the impression I get. When she’s standing up there hanging his medallion around him, she doesn’t try to kiss him or anything.
LUCAS: Well, another thing we could do is to go one step beyond the simple and move into the love story plot, where you have them kind of vying for each other. She is a spry little snappy kind of girl and he’s sort of liking her, and in the process of the movie, they fall in love and have a wonderful relationship and in the end she gets killed. it’s one of those tweaked ideas, but it’s one of those things that works. What I wanted to when we were shooting the other movie is have the princess run off with the Wookiee. But it sounds perverted.
LIPPINCOTT: I think that somebody else has got to be killed.
LUCAS: I wouldn’t mind killing her off.
The other thing we haven’t dealt with is Darth Vader. But Darth Vader, as we discovered in this picture, tends to be pushy; he’s not strong enough as the villain to hold the villain role. he doesn’t have the persona that you need. You really need a Cushing guy, a really slimy, ugly….
LIPPINCOTT: What if you unveiled him, unmasked him? Since he isn’t strong enough to hold up. Unmasked him and started building up a new villain who could continue into the next?
LUCAS: That’s an idea.
FOSTER: A Phantom Of The opera scene right there. People will be curious…
LUCAS: Well, we had an interesting idea, which we sort of liked but didn’t do it. Somebody thought we were going to take the hood off Vader and there was going to be Peter Cushing, this shrivelled old man inside this giant suit. A little of The Wizard Of Oz idea. The one thing about that though: Darth Vader is good as he is a real menace. It’s just good to have that guy who you love to hate there. So if you use Darth Vader, fine. Or, the bad guy is his agent on the planet. it’s the local governor, it’s the local whoever Vader is using to find the crystal or whatever he needs…’
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