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George Lucas - your opinions of him? a general discussion thread — Page 4

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 (Edited)

Those Astromech positions are totally logical next to this:

It’s been discussed before but… Astromechs don’t fit properly into Naboo Starfighters because the props seem to have been built half-size from Chiang’s original concept:

This is not a bad match for the angle:

A mistake, being cheap, to save time, or to fit the set? Or a combination. The best scale comparison I could find was this:

Droids roughly the same size but the ships and cockpits are about half the size.

VIZ TOP TIPS! - PARENTS. Impress your children by showing them a floppy disk and telling them it’s a 3D model of a save icon.

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This type of “ugly” starfighter used the frontal fuselage of the Headhunter, which was then attached to the “eyeball” fuselage of a TIE Interceptor, the engines of the Headhunter, and the solar collector panels of the Interceptor. Weapon-wise, the craft possessed the two laser cannons from the TIE’s wings, while the Z-95’s own cannons were attached to either side of the main fuselage. The fighter also bore a twin barreled cannon, resembling a BTL Y-wing starfighter’s ion cannon turret, mounted on top of the “eyeball” cockpit, as well as a nose-mounted astromech droid missile.

Huh.

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I kind of like the idea of a ship cobbled together from several wrecks. And maybe an Artoo unit fired off like a missile, screaming all the way to it’s doom. 😉

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I wonder if Lucas created the PT primarily to keep LucasFilm alive? Its artistic outcome would not have been important as long as it generates money. Back in the 80s he also saw ESB & ROTJ as mere vehicles to fund his elaborate Skywalker Ranch. Somewhere between ANH & ESB the filmmaker disappeared and the businessman took over. Didn’t he say during infamous “White Slavers” interview with Charlie Rose that he wanted to do the ST himself and that he had to care about his employees? Maybe it was easier to sell LucasFilm than to stem another trilogy himself…

Rogue One is redundant. Just play the first mission of DARK FORCES.
The hallmark of a corrupt leader: Being surrounded by yes men.
‘The best visual effects in the world will not compensate for a story told badly.’ - V.E.S.
‘Star Wars is a buffet, enjoy the stuff you want, and leave the rest.’ - SilverWook

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ILM has always been busy working on non Lucasfilm projects, and I would think THX branding was still bringing in the moolah back in the '90’s. Other movies have used Skywalker Ranch’s post production facilities.
I bet he wishes he had kept Pixar in the fold sometimes.

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SilverWook said:

I bet he wishes he had kept Pixar in the fold sometimes.

According to [The Secret History of Star Wars, p.300] he sold Pixar to Apple in 1986 for 10 million dollars “giving Lucasfilm a needed shot of capital”.

Rogue One is redundant. Just play the first mission of DARK FORCES.
The hallmark of a corrupt leader: Being surrounded by yes men.
‘The best visual effects in the world will not compensate for a story told badly.’ - V.E.S.
‘Star Wars is a buffet, enjoy the stuff you want, and leave the rest.’ - SilverWook

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Disney bought Pixar for 7.4 billion in 2006.

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SilverWook said:

Disney bought Pixar for 7.4 billion in 2006.

f

BUMMER

Rogue One is redundant. Just play the first mission of DARK FORCES.
The hallmark of a corrupt leader: Being surrounded by yes men.
‘The best visual effects in the world will not compensate for a story told badly.’ - V.E.S.
‘Star Wars is a buffet, enjoy the stuff you want, and leave the rest.’ - SilverWook

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Chlorine said:

SilverWook said:

Disco_Lobot said:

SilverWook said:

Alderaan said:

imperialscum said:

That is a stupid statement considering he made THX.

It’s just a weird, dumb movie.

When was the last time you even watched the theatrical version, if ever? A lot of people here (myself included) have put in lot of effort and money to restore it.

What - did Lucas change that one too?

Yes, and it makes even the SE changes seem mild by comparison.
https://youtu.be/kIfTT8EGj3A

I’ve always thought the enhanced lizard from the DC looks better, and the masturbation piston is great.

Masturbation Piston is a great second album title.

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Chlorine said:

Are the people here of the opinion that George was never talented, or do you guys think it’s more of a Francis Ford Coppola situation where he just lost his touch?

The second. Star Wars is a fine film. It is often said that it was saved in editing, and that the first cut was terrible, but I simply can’t picture the editors turning a really bad film into the one we know today. If anything, post-production enhanced material that was already in place.

Caligula’expanded OST, V2 Released
The Shining’s complete OST
Ghidorah, The Tree-Headed Monster (English dub synched to Toho cut)

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I think George has one of the most finely attuned senses of cultural resonance of any living director, but he also knows that he is a terrible writer. In the case of Star Wars he labored for years trying to write a script capable of sustaining his brilliant cross-cultural archetypes, and with the help of his writer friends he managed it…twice. However, he eventually became too prideful to admit his shortcomings, and so when it came time to write the prequels they had to be HIS prequels. The thematic and symbolic elements are there, and are as strong as they ever were in Star Wars, but the scripts failed to allow these symbols to coalesce into working films.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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IsanRido said:

Chlorine said:

Are the people here of the opinion that George was never talented, or do you guys think it’s more of a Francis Ford Coppola situation where he just lost his touch?

The second. Star Wars is a fine film. It is often said that it was saved in editing, and that the first cut was terrible, but I simply can’t picture the editors turning a really bad film into the one we know today. If anything, post-production enhanced material that was already in place.

You should take a look at what was chopped out of the original. There aren’t many deleted scenes to view right now, but just reading about what was cut… I’d say the film was saved by Marcia Lucas during editing.
George is great at ideas, but needs people to help steer. That’s not a slam against Lucas at all. I think it’s been pretty well documented that Lucas realized this himself and that’s why he took a step back for ESB. Then production difficulties forced him to resume some of the duties during ROTJ. By the mid 90’s I think his hubris got the better of him and he started to believe his own hype.

Ray’s Lounge
Biggs in ANH edit idea
ROTJ opening edit idea

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ray_afraid said:

IsanRido said:

Chlorine said:

Are the people here of the opinion that George was never talented, or do you guys think it’s more of a Francis Ford Coppola situation where he just lost his touch?

The second. Star Wars is a fine film. It is often said that it was saved in editing, and that the first cut was terrible, but I simply can’t picture the editors turning a really bad film into the one we know today. If anything, post-production enhanced material that was already in place.

You should take a look at what was chopped out of the original. There aren’t many deleted scenes to view right now, but just reading about what was cut… I’d say the film was saved by Marcia Lucas during editing.

Agreed. Any time you see the original film scenes that are outtakes or just longer than what is in the movie… people start saying George Lucas dialogue. It’s cut for a good reason, they knew what was up.

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I agree some of the deleted material is fairly cringey. However, what remains in the finished film does come across competent filmmaking. Editing improved, the music and sound design made potentially boring scenes more interesting, but when I see fragments of the workprint I see material that needs work, not necessarily a doomed production. Raw footage hardly seems convincing in any film.

Deleted Magic and the recreation of the original climax does reveal it to be less exciting than what we ultimately got, but I doesn’t like something in the same level as the prequels.

Caligula’expanded OST, V2 Released
The Shining’s complete OST
Ghidorah, The Tree-Headed Monster (English dub synched to Toho cut)

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I do think “saved in the editing room” is a bit of a misnomer for Star Wars. That would imply the film was a massive turd to begin with. Most movies start the editing process in a mess (rough 4 hour or so assemblies and such). The things that made Star Wars pop during post-production (trim editing, music, vfx, sfx) are all things that are essential in any film production. Was the editing on Star Wars more extensive than on most films? Sure, considering Lucas was so displeased with Jympson’s cut of the film that he took him off it entirely, but late in the game so he had to replace him with 4 different editors working simultaneously (including himself). But what they ultimately came up with was simply what the film needed to be. “Saved” implies they turned into something completely different, which wasn’t really the case.

Point being, I think “came together in the editing room” is probably the better way to put it than “saved.” And of course, in regards to the thread topic, this was all overseen by Lucas so I don’t think the credit can be taken away there. As with the other elements of the film’s production, the key to the success wasn’t just him or just other people, it was the collaboration.

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DominicCobb said:

I do think “saved in the editing room” is a bit of a misnomer for Star Wars. That would imply the film was a massive turd to begin with. Most movies start the editing process in a mess (rough 4 hour or so assemblies and such). The things that made Star Wars pop during post-production (trim editing, music, vfx, sfx) are all things that are essential in any film production. Was the editing on Star Wars more extensive than on most films? Sure, considering Lucas was so displeased with Jympson’s cut of the film that he took him off it entirely, but late in the game so he had to replace him with 4 different editors working simultaneously (including himself). But what they ultimately came up with was simply what the film needed to be. “Saved” implies they turned into something completely different, which wasn’t really the case.

Point being, I think “came together in the editing room” is probably the better way to put it than “saved.” And of course, in regards to the thread topic, this was all overseen by Lucas so I don’t think the credit can be taken away there. As with the other elements of the film’s production, the key to the success wasn’t just him or just other people, it was the collaboration.

This.

I would say that “came together in the editing room” applies for just about any film.

真実

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DominicCobb said:

I do think “saved in the editing room” is a bit of a misnomer for Star Wars. That would imply the film was a massive turd to begin with.

Well they didn’t say turd, they said unmitigated disaster

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Lust-In-Phaze said:

once a director starts believing his own hype it’s all downhill. George is, to me, a very tragic figure, someone that used to be great but eventually began phoning it in because, hell, he’s George Lucas and he’s a genius so it’s gonna be great no matter what.

I wholeheartedly agree with this take. I also believe that even immensely creative and talented people can have a finite ‘reservoir’ of genius. We see a lot of this in books and music with “one-hit wonders”, who have one or two breakout smash hits and can then never really replicate that success in the future. They’ve run out of stories and/or the ability to tell them in a convincing, fresh or original voice.

I think it’s part of why you see him re-treading old ground and messing with his old works over and over again, he’s searching for new inspiration by working in a construct that reminds him of when he “had it”. (The other part is $$$, of course.)

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Haarspalter said:

I wonder if Lucas created the PT primarily to keep LucasFilm alive? Its artistic outcome would not have been important as long as it generates money. Back in the 80s he also saw ESB & ROTJ as mere vehicles to fund his elaborate Skywalker Ranch. Somewhere between ANH & ESB the filmmaker disappeared and the businessman took over. Didn’t he say during infamous “White Slavers” interview with Charlie Rose that he wanted to do the ST himself and that he had to care about his employees? Maybe it was easier to sell LucasFilm than to stem another trilogy himself…

Late reply to this one but this is actually true. Young Indiana Jones in the early 90s was a huge money loss for Lucasfilm. He had to come up with something that was going to generate income. This was partially why he went forward with the prequels.

I think Lucas has a love/hate relationship with Star Wars. With Empire he really did want to farm out the star wars movies to other people and he would build his dream Skywalker Ranch studio. However he had a very hard time letting go of wanting to control Empire and the quality of that film. When he did Jedi he was onset every day I believe as opposed to the hands off approach he had with Empire. After Jedi he was finished with the whole thing until he decided to finish the saga with the prequels which would make him a ton of money and he would have absolute control over the output of the film.

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Did any of the educational stuff Lucas once talked about utilizing with Young Indy ever come to pass?

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