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George Lucas should get more credit for "saving Anakin Skywalker" in Star Wars: The Clone Wars.

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Many people credit Dave Filoni for “saving Anakin Skywalker’s character”, by making him more likeable in The Clone Wars animated series. In Dave’s own words, he asked George Lucas if his Anakin could be “a combination of Luke Skywalker and Han Solo”. However, it was actually originally George’s idea to portray him as more charming and heroic. I’d like to put forth the idea that the way Anakin is portrayed in this series, is actually part of George’s overall imagining of the saga, and that one of the reasons for the creation of this series was that he had a similar perspective to a lot of fans. The idea that we only get a glimpse of Anakin and Obi-Wan as good friends in the films, and that there is a large gap from Anakin Skywalker in AOTC to ROTS, both come from George’s mouth. I especially appreciate his explanation of the creation of Ahsoka Tano, and how she brings out a more “human” and mature side of Anakin Skywalker. In this interview, we get to hear George’s perspective on all of this.

Star Wars: George Lucas Questions Answered
https://youtu.be/ENwTK88GLxE?t=4517 (Skip to 1:15:17)

Ultimately, it was Filoni’s execution of these ideas which made the series work, so of course he deserves credit where it is due. However, the more you realize just how involved George was in this series, the more you realize that The Clone Wars is essential viewing for understanding the entire saga.

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I do agree, partially. Lucas does deserve blame for structuring his trilogy badly, barely showing Anakin being heroic and likable, and barely showing Anakin and Obi-Wan being friends. The only time we see Anakin being heroic, charming, likable, and having a good friendship with Obi-Wan is the beginning of ROTS which is far too late. You have to sit through one boring film and one abysmal film to get to it.

But when people say TCW Anakin is a completely different character or that Filoni fixed him, it isn’t really correct. He’s the same as ROTS Anakin, we just got to see more of him.

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But when people say TCW Anakin is a completely different character or that Filoni fixed him, it isn’t really correct. He’s the same as ROTS Anakin, we just got to see more of him.

Meh… I don’t know. Maybe it’s just the way Lucas directed Hayden Christensen, or perhaps Christensen’s own creative choices, but his portrayal of Anakin often bordered on eerily unstable or psychotic, like he’s channeling Malcolm McDowell in a Clockwork Orange. Even during the opening sequence of ROTS, where Anakin is arguably the most level-headed and closest to what I would have imagined him to be, Christensen still occasionally injects this underlying element of borderline personality disorder that comes out sometimes in a facial expression or line delivery.

In contrast, Clone Wars Anakin is a lot closer to something like a Han Solo/Luke Skywalker hybrid. Basically a typical “hot shot” hero character who sometimes also functions as an anti-hero when he wants to be expedient. This portrayal is definitely closer to how I imagined Anakin to be prior to the Prequels, but I also think it loses a lot of the vulnerability that Christensen’s portrayal offered.

Regardless, it’s hard to reconcile the two portrayals as representing the same character. I think a perfect Anakin portrayal would combine elements of the Filoni incarnation with some elements of Christensen’s portrayal, like the occasional vulnerability. I also think Anakin should be a bit less brash/Han Solo-esque, and more of a “by the book” guy that values courage, loyalty and stability. (These are the kind of traits that need to be exploited for him to become Vader.)

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I think a lot of people conveniently forget Lucas’s impact on The Clone Wars when it comes to discourse. Lucas was at the head of the table in those writing rooms. If I’m not mistaken, most of the storylines and characters come straight from him. No episode got finalized without Lucas seeing it all the way through and approving it. That’s not to say it wasn’t a collaboration. It certainly was with all the writers, Lucas, and Filoni as director, and it was a type of collaboration not seen since Return of the Jedi I’d say.

Now, as for Anakin’s portrayal himself… I agree with G&G-Fan, to me it’s not a different and improved take on the character, but rather we’re seeing sides of him we unfortunately were not shown in the Prequels.

Move along, move along.

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Lucas would have also been in charge of Star Wars Underworld and episodes, 7 8 and 9 if he hadn’t sold his company. Who has claimed that Lucas wasn’t the creative behind Star Wars. Like it isn’t obvious after the awful job Disney has done.

Now its Disney/Filoniverse but no Lucas. Its not even 10% real Star Wars.

I’m no Lucas or prequel apologist but it is plain for me to see that Lucas wrote the first 6 films. Kasdan did drafts on Empire and Jedi but he didn’t write the story. He was the one who wanted to kill Luke and Han. And how awful is Episode 7 Kasdan wrote that without Lucas.

Filoni without Lucas is straight up fanfiction.

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I’ve only watched the part of the video linked to in the opening post, and this is an interesting subject to me in that it also highlights what George failed to do or show onscreen in the Prequel films. And the continuing attempts since to fix, repair, or explain the shortcomings or problems with the Prequels in the ancillary series and material since. Whether that is 2003 Clone Wars (to an extent), the 2008 film, The Clone Wars series, Rebels, or Tales Of The Jedi and so on. Or official articles and interviews, and the slew of fan-made “George is a secret genius” or “Prequel deeper meaning” material such as Ring Theory or visual symmetry, or overlong and videos pieces on fans simply “failing to understand the Prequel films”. None of which changes anything onscreen in the Prequels themselves.

For example, I really enjoyed the Dooku segments of 2022’s Tales Of The Jedi. But I could not help but question just why we were not shown such material in the Prequels themselves, which would have made his character and story arc far more compelling. 20 years on from AOTC and we finally got some enticing onscreen content about Dooku and his motivations, instead of what we saw in AOTC & ROTS; a 2D disappointing mustache twirling throwaway villain.

We really could do with a Special Edition of the Prequels, such a thing would be fascinating to see, along with the reactions and thoughts of many Prequel fans.

Though I still don’t understand why Obi-Wan and Anakin’s friendship, them becoming a team, and then closer like “brothers”, wasn’t shown in the Prequel films themselves; that it needed “a footnote” such as TCW to explain or show this.

According to George, the Anakin character was “very one-sided” in ROTS, perhaps this was why George felt the need to show that more charming heroic side of Anakin, “his settling down and maturing a little bit which is what happens when you become a parent or teacher”. But this takes place shortly before his fall to the dark side, betraying the Jedi, killing the children again (and the men and the women too!), choking his pregnant wife, and fighting Obi-Wan. Then finding out it was all for nothing, that he was lied to and misled by Palpatine, but still continuing on to become Space Hitler. To me it is all quite uneven, and jarring.
 

If George Lucas worked on and had significant input on TCW along with Dave Filoni, then George should likely deserve more credit for “saving Anakin Skywalker”, with any others who worked on that side of creativity for the film or series. Is the video posted by SWOTFAN25 about 2008’s The Clone Wars film, or the series? But anyway, we should also remember and acknowledge why Anakin needed “saving” in the first place, going on what was shown or portrayed in the Prequels. Or not shown, in this case.

The Imperial need for control is so desperate because it is so unnatural. Tyranny requires constant effort. It breaks, it leaks. Authority is brittle. Oppression is the mask of fear.

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of_Kaiburr_and_Whills said:

I think a lot of people conveniently forget Lucas’s impact on The Clone Wars when it comes to discourse. Lucas was at the head of the table in those writing rooms. If I’m not mistaken, most of the storylines and characters come straight from him. No episode got finalized without Lucas seeing it all the way through and approving it. That’s not to say it wasn’t a collaboration. It certainly was with all the writers, Lucas, and Filoni as director, and it was a type of collaboration not seen since Return of the Jedi I’d say.

I think you could be right, but also that a lot of people may not even know of George’s input into TCW, that they think it was Filoni as the head or being in charge of it all? Or that there wasn’t a collaboration or partnership? (why, I don’t know). It would be interesting to see a poll on this.

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Emre1601 said:

I’ve only watched the part of the video linked to in the opening post, and this is an interesting subject to me in that it also highlights what George failed to do or show onscreen in the Prequel films. And the continuing attempts since to fix, repair, or explain the shortcomings or problems with the Prequels in the ancillary series and material since. Whether that is 2003 Clone Wars (to an extent), the 2008 film, The Clone Wars series, Rebels, or Tales Of The Jedi and so on. Or official articles and interviews, and the slew of fan-made “George is a secret genius” or “Prequel deeper meaning” material such as Ring Theory, or overlong and videos pieces on fans simply “failing to understand the Prequel films”. None of which changes anything onscreen in the Prequels themselves.

Exactly this! Movies should not have to “make you do homework” to properly understand the themes and characters they’re trying to portray. The prequels require so much “homework” for appreciation like that.

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Channel72 said:

But when people say TCW Anakin is a completely different character or that Filoni fixed him, it isn’t really correct. He’s the same as ROTS Anakin, we just got to see more of him.

Meh… I don’t know. Maybe it’s just the way Lucas directed Hayden Christensen, or perhaps Christensen’s own creative choices, but his portrayal of Anakin often bordered on eerily unstable or psychotic, like he’s channeling Malcolm McDowell in a Clockwork Orange. Even during the opening sequence of ROTS, where Anakin is arguably the most level-headed and closest to what I would have imagined him to be, Christensen still occasionally injects this underlying element of borderline personality disorder that comes out sometimes in a facial expression or line delivery.

In contrast, Clone Wars Anakin is a lot closer to something like a Han Solo/Luke Skywalker hybrid. Basically a typical “hot shot” hero character who sometimes also functions as an anti-hero when he wants to be expedient. This portrayal is definitely closer to how I imagined Anakin to be prior to the Prequels, but I also think it loses a lot of the vulnerability that Christensen’s portrayal offered.

Regardless, it’s hard to reconcile the two portrayals as representing the same character.

Agreed, and I genuinely prefer Hayden’s Anakin over TCW Anakin.

Emre1601 said:
For example, I really enjoyed the Dooku segments of 2022’s Tales Of The Jedi. But I could not help but question just why we were not shown such material in the Prequels themselves, which would have made his character and story arc far more compelling.

There’s a thing called limited amount of on-scream time. The Prequels are supposed to be three films, so you can’t expect everything to be explored in detail in three simple films, unless you want to see 10 hours-long Prequels. But I sincerely doubt you would have liked to see that, wouldn’t you?

Though I still don’t understand why Obi-Wan and Anakin’s friendship, them becoming a team, and then closer like “brothers”, wasn’t shown in the Prequel films themselves; that it needed “a footnote” such as TCW to explain or show this.

Again, it’s a matter of limited amount of on-screen time. The Prequels are not supposed to be about Anakin and Obi-Wan’s friendship, the Prequels are supposed to be about Anakin as a character, his motivations for joining the Sith and becoming Darth Vader, and the fall of the Republic. It’s only natural that they can’t show everything about Anakin and Obi-Wan’s friendship, as it’s not what they are supposed to show in detail. Unless you want to see 10 hours-long Prequels, again.

In general, I think that the Prequel Era would have worked better as part of the EU, being developed through books, comics and video games. This way, the authors wouldn’t have worried about limited onscreen time and could have developed and explained everything in detail.

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Showing Anakin and Obi-Wan’s friendship makes it way more devastating when Anakin turns and they have to fight. I think that’s more important then showing him as a young kid.

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G&G-Fan said:

Showing Anakin and Obi-Wan’s friendship makes it way more devastating when Anakin turns and they have to fight. I think that’s more important then showing him as a young kid.

Showing an innocent child who turns into an inhuman monster who kills children is very impactful as well, and showing Anakin’s childhood and his life in slavery is important to understand his character.

As I said, everything in the Prequels is important, the problem is just that there’s a limited amount of on-screan time, which prevents you from showing everything in detail. That’s why I said that the Prequels would have worked better as EU. I mean, imagine if the Prequels were an EU multimedia project, consisting of books, comics and video games. It would have been great, because in a EU multimedia project everything can be shown in detail and you don’t have to worry about on-screan time at all.

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Spartacus01 said:

Showing an innocent child who turns into an inhuman monster who kills children is very impactful as well, and showing Anakin’s childhood and his life in slavery is important to understand his character.

(Almost) Every child is innocent. Showing that Anakin was a good kid means nothing. I’m sure Jeffrey Dahmer was a “good kid”. What actually matters is seeing that Anakin was a good man.

Also no, his life in slavery doesn’t end up meaning anything, in the end. It’s never brought up again after The Phantom Menace. It’s never delved into how it affected him. He just misses his mom, which is normal. His trauma isn’t explored until the Zygerrian arc in The Clone Wars.

Besides, being told he was a slave and seeing how it effects Anakin would’ve been much more effective. It’d allow the audience to fill in the blanks, rather then just seeing Anakin go “Yipee!” and having no apparant fear or hatred of his master. Allowing the audience to fill the blanks is way better because what the imagination can think of is far more horrifying then anything they could get away with showing on screen in a kids movie. That’s why Han Solo’s torture in The Empire Strikes Back works so well.

If you wanted to tho, you could show him in slavery in nightmares he has or something. Either way, it’s not a good enough reason to have him be a kid a whole movie.

Spartacus01 said:
As I said, everything in the Prequels is important, the problem is just that there’s a limited amount of on-screan time, which prevents you from showing everything in detail. That’s why I said that the Prequels would have worked better as EU. I mean, imagine if the Prequels were an EU multimedia project, consisting of books, comics and video games. It would have been great, because in a EU multimedia project everything can be shown in detail and you don’t have to worry about on-screan time at all.

Well that’s the issue, isn’t it? They’re too convoluted. They don’t work as films on their own. George should’ve cut down the story to make it less complicated.

The content of Revenge of the Sith and some of Attack of the Clones (plus showing how Palpatine became the Chancellor) are enough for a whole trilogy.

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Spartacus01 said:

Emre1601 said:
For example, I really enjoyed the Dooku segments of 2022’s Tales Of The Jedi. But I could not help but question just why we were not shown such material in the Prequels themselves, which would have made his character and story arc far more compelling.

There’s a thing called limited amount of on-scream time. The Prequels are supposed to be three films, so you can’t expect everything to be explored in detail in three simple films, unless you want to see 10 hours-long Prequels. But I sincerely doubt you would have liked to see that, wouldn’t you?

A few scenes with Dooku in the background of TPM, talking with Qui-Gon about his deteriorating faith or belief in the Jedi, then leaving the Jedi after the death of Qui-Gon shouldn’t add-on too much to the run-time. Or for that matter adding his battle with Yaddle shown in AOTC, his fall to the Dark Side (which could serve be a mirror of Anakin’s later turn in ROTS) and serving Palaptine and his schemes, shouldn’t either. Nor in ROTS where Dooku’s death would have had more impact, especially at the order of Palpatine at the hands of Anakin.

It is why I suggested a Special Edition of the Prequels are needed. To merge the films together more, for characters to have more impact on-screen, and to the story. To fulfill the viewer’s expectations, and also to fire the viewer’s imagination more. To maybe trim some of “the fat” for scenes that do not work so well also.

I hope a skilled or experienced fan editor on here does do a version where they marge that Tales Of The Jedi storyline into an edit of TPM, AOTC & ROTS. Or maybe in a 3 in 1 edit.

Though I still don’t understand why Obi-Wan and Anakin’s friendship, them becoming a team, and then closer like “brothers”, wasn’t shown in the Prequel films themselves; that it needed “a footnote” such as TCW to explain or show this.

Again, it’s a matter of limited amount of on-screen time. The Prequels are not supposed to be about Anakin and Obi-Wan’s friendship, the Prequels are supposed to be about Anakin as a character, his motivations for joining the Sith and becoming Darth Vader, and the fall of the Republic. It’s only natural that they can’t show everything about Anakin and Obi-Wan’s friendship, as it’s not what they are supposed to show in detail. Unless you want to see 10 hours-long Prequels, again.

I don’t expect “everything” to be covered, but I do expect to see certain events and relationships to occur on screen in the Prequels. The friendship between Obi-Wan and Anakin is an important major aspect of these films, and also to the Saga itself.

If the Prequel films had to run an extra 5-10 minute each: TPM’s 216 minutes, AOTC’s 142 minutes, and ROTS’ 140 minutes, to portray that friendship and partnership more effectively and emotionally, and Dooku having a more of a presence and a deeper more poignant arc in the films and to the story, then so be it.

Fans shouldn’t have had to wait for an additional animated series sometime later to show that friendship effectively. To expand upon that evolving friendship in a later animated series, to show more actual events, more actual adventures, and give it a “deeper dive”, for sure.
 

G&G-Fan said:

Showing Anakin and Obi-Wan’s friendship makes it way more devastating when Anakin turns and they have to fight. I think that’s more important then showing him as a young kid.

Absolutely this.

The Imperial need for control is so desperate because it is so unnatural. Tyranny requires constant effort. It breaks, it leaks. Authority is brittle. Oppression is the mask of fear.

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G&G-Fan said:

Spartacus01 said:

Showing an innocent child who turns into an inhuman monster who kills children is very impactful as well, and showing Anakin’s childhood and his life in slavery is important to understand his character.

(Almost) Every child is innocent. Showing that Anakin was a good kid means nothing. I’m sure Jeffrey Dahmer was a “good kid”. What actually matters is seeing that Anakin was a good man.

Exactly. When you go from TPM to AotC, there’s a disconnect because little Ani and grown up Anakin don’t really register as the same character. TPM is trying to show Anakin at his most noble before he starts to go Dark, but it doesn’t really feel like it counts because he’s 9.

But we can’t turn back. Fear is their greatest defense. I doubt if the actual security there is any greater than it was on Aquilae or Sullust. And what there is is most likely directed towards a large-scale assault.

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Also, if you show a child doing these dark things, it’s too obvious to see the direction they will go down. The Good Son came off as cheesy for that reason.

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Besides, being told he was a slave and seeing how it effects Anakin would’ve been much more effective. It’d allow the audience to fill in the blanks

Sure, but that’s your opinion. There’s people who would have complained about what you say as well. In fact, I’m sure that if they had really done this, then the Prequels would have been criticized anyway, by using statements like: “They told us about how Anakin lived in slavery and how it was horrible, but it’s impossible to directly relate to it, because we weren’t shown. Please George, show, don’t tell.” I mean, if you really want to find problems, then it’s virtually possible to criticize the Prequels by using every possible argument and counter-argument.

Well that’s the issue, isn’t it? They’re too convoluted. They don’t work as films on their own. George should’ve cut down the story to make it less complicated.

It’s not complicated if you pay attention to the movies and notice the details, like the facial expressions, etc. For example, last year I showed all 6 original Star Wars movies to a friend of mine, and when he saw Attack of the Clones for the first time he knew right away that Sidious and Dooku were behind the creation of the Clone Army. When I told him there were people who had trouble understanding it, he literally said: “Really? But how? It’s so obvious…” So, not everyone finds the story complicated. Sure, I think that some parts could have been explained better, but the story is not so complicated to understand if you pay attention.

how Palpatine became the Chancellor

That’s the whole point of The Phantom Menace. Unless you wanted a single line where they say something like: “Palpatine became Chancellor because he was elected.”

A few scenes with Dooku in the background of TPM, talking with Qui-Gon about his deteriorating faith or belief in the Jedi, then leaving the Jedi after the death of Qui-Gon shouldn’t add-on too much to the run-time.

Sure, but Dooku wasn’t even a thing when TPM came out. It’s like saying: “In ANH there’s no clue about who Luke’s father is.” Besides, in TPM you already have to think about Obi-Wan, Qui-Gon, Anakin, Padmé, and Jar Jar. So, adding Dooku as an extra-character you have to think about is just too much. However, I grant you that they could have added the AOTC deleted scenes where Dooku’s story and motivations are explored better.

I don’t expect “everything” to be covered, but I do expect to see certain events and relationships to occur on screen in the Prequels. The friendship between Obi-Wan and Anakin is an important major aspect of these films, and also to the Saga itself.

That’s your problem, not mine. As far as I’m concerned, I’ve always found more than enough what’s shown at the beginning of ROTS. From that beginning only, I’ve always been able to derive, to understand everything and I’ve always been able to grasp the emotion of the final duel. Their friendship is something that I’ve always imagined in my head, I’ve never felt the need to deepen the dynamics so much. Their friendship is a “fill in the blanks” case, at least for me.

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Spartacus01 said:

Sure, but that’s your opinion. There’s people who would have complained about what you say as well. In fact, I’m sure that if they had really done this, then the Prequels would have been criticized anyway, by using statements like: “They told us about how Anakin lived in slavery and how it was horrible, but it’s impossible to directly relate to it, because we weren’t shown. Please George, show, don’t tell.” I mean, if you really want to find problems, then it’s virtually possible to criticize the Prequels by using every possible argument and counter-argument.

Yeah, some people would complain about it. I don’t really care. Some people complain about stuff in other movies I like and I just disagree.

I disagree with a lot of people’s problems with Return of the Jedi’s narrative choices. Hell I’m an MCU Spider-Man fan, I have to defend controversial creative choices from whiny fanboys who can’t accept change people all the time.

Besides, they didn’t show it in the movie we got, anyway. There’s never any sign he was abused and he’s never scared of his master. Like I’m not saying to show a 10 year old getting whipped (which would just be fucked up), but like at the very least show that Anakin is really scared of his master. I still think it’s ideal to just start him at 19 at the least. Because it’s the backstory, not the story. Breaking Bad didn’t dedicate whole episodes to Walt working at Grey Matter.

Spartacus01 said:

It’s not complicated if you pay attention to the movies and notice the details, like the facial expressions, etc. For example, last year I showed all 6 original Star Wars movies to a friend of mine, and when he saw Attack of the Clones for the first time he knew right away that Sidious and Dooku were behind the creation of the Clone Army. When I told him there were people who had trouble understanding it, he literally said: “Really? But how? It’s so obvious…” So, not everyone finds the story complicated. Sure, I think that some parts could have been explained better, but the story is not so complicated to understand if you pay attention.

I’m not referring to “it’s too complicated to understand”. Like yeah, the Prequels are kinda obvious, narratively. We’re talking about the movie with, “If only… Senator Amidala, were here”.

I’m referring to the fact that the movies are overstuffed. Attack of the Clones is a prime example of too much plot, too little character development. Lucas even realized he fucked up not showing any Anakin and Obi-Wan friendship in the movie and put in the elevator scene in pick-ups. But a 1 minute scene in which they recount old adventures didn’t do enough to make people feel they’re such good friends. More legwork that had to be done by Revenge of the Sith.

The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones suffer so much from bloating their plots that so much got pushed back to Revenge of the Sith. Lucas himself even admitted this.

George Lucas said:
But I did run into the reality of the first film. Basically, he is a slave kid. He gets found by the Jedi and he becomes part of the Jedi order and that he loves his mother. You know, that’s maybe a half hour movie. And so I did a kind of jazz riff on the rest of it and I said, “Well, I’m just going to enjoy myself. I have this giant world to play in and I’m going to just move around and have fun with this because, you know, I have to get to the second part.” So, then I got to the second part, and it was kind of the same thing. They fall in love, they can’t and they’re not supposed to, and, you know, little bits of trivia in terms of, you know, setting up the empire and how all that stuff works.

That’s about another twenty percent of this story treatment. The first film is twenty percent, the second film is twenty percent and I then ended up with a third film. The problem was the third film was actually more like eighty percent of the story. So, I was sitting there with a lot more story to tell than I actually had time to tell it. It was the reverse of what I had in the first two films.

Most of the story is in Revenge of the Sith. So much screentime in the other two films is wasted because of that.

Spartacus01 said:

That’s the whole point of The Phantom Menace. Unless you wanted a single line where they say something like: “Palpatine became Chancellor because he was elected.”

That’s… what I was referring to. I was saying that a better Prequel trilogy would be the content of Revenge of the Sith, some elements of Attack of the Clones (mostly just the beginning of the clone war and Anakin and Padme falling in love, which should’ve been in the first movie), and showing how Palpatine became the Chancellor (AKA a part of The Phantom Menace).

I brought that up in particular as a lot of people suggest already have Palpatine as the Chancellor at the beginning of the trilogy which IMO isn’t a good idea.

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So, the summary of your criticism is this: in the first two Prequel films there is not much story to tell, so you lose a lot of time behind secondary things. Am i right? If so, then great, it’s a very acceptable critique. But my reply is this: not every movie in a Saga has to be fundamental to understand the Saga itself. In my opinion, sometimes it’s nice to have movies where the plot is a little calmer, without necessarily having action and important things happening all the time.

But a 1 minute scene in which they recount old adventures didn’t do enough to make people feel they’re such good friends.

It was enough for me. That scene was really enough to make me feel that they are good friends. Especially because being friends doesn’t necessarily mean not arguing or having a good chemistry all the time.

just the beginning of the clone war and Anakin and Padme falling in love

Do you realize that without the assassination attempts there’s no investigative plot, that without the investigative plot there’s no Clone Army, and that without the Clone Army there’s no Clone Wars, right? How do you think they should have used the screan time instead? The movie shows exactly what it’s supposed to show: the beginning of the Clone Wars, and Anakin and Padmé falling in love. The investigative plot leads to the beginning of the Clone Wars and the romance leads to…the romance.

a part of The Phantom Menace

It is not “a part”, it is the whole movie! Again, without the Trade Federation blockade there is no Naboo crisis, and without the Naboo crisis there is no Palpatine’s election. How do you think they should have used the screen time instead? The movie shows what it’s supposed to show.

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Spartacus01 said:

So, the summary of your criticism is this: in the first two Prequel films there is not much story to tell, so you lose a lot of time behind secondary things. Am i right? If so, then great, it’s a very acceptable critique. But my reply is this: not every movie in a Saga has to be fundamental to understand the Saga itself. In my opinion, sometimes it’s nice to have movies where the plot is a little calmer, without necessarily having action and important things happening all the time.

At the expense of giving Anakin a more gradual fall to the dark side, showing him and Obi-Wan being friends, Anakin being heroic, more manipulation of Anakin from Palpatine, or maybe even more time with Darth Vader in the suit?

There’s a reason people love The Clone Wars. There’s a galaxy of potential in this era.

It was enough for me. That scene was really enough to make me feel that they are good friends. Especially because being friends doesn’t necessarily mean not arguing or having a good chemistry all the time.

Good for you. But for a lot of people, the arguing felt too antagonistic to the point where it felt like Obi-Wan couldn’t stand Anakin. Which is where the popular interpretation of “Obi-Wan wasn’t a good master/father figure to Anakin” came from, even though it wasn’t Lucas’ intentions.

It’d be a lot better if it was spread out between healthy banter, but in AOTC there’s none of that except for the elevator scene.

Do you realize that without the assassination attempts there’s no investigative plot, that without the investigative plot there’s no Clone Army, and that without the Clone Army there’s no Clone Wars, right? How do you think they should have used the screan time instead? The movie shows exactly what it’s supposed to show: the beginning of the Clone Wars, and Anakin and Padmé falling in love. The investigative plot leads to the beginning of the Clone Wars and the romance leads to…the romance.

There’s a very different way to plot it that could lead to a much more streamlined story. You could have a cool James Bond-esque Obi-Wan investigation, but it doesn’t have to be so dragged out. It takes 3 whole scenes just to find the planet. And maybe even have Anakin be with him (this would ideally take place in the first movie) to show their friendship. Or you could have Palpatine just introduce the clones without any mystery plot and show Anakin-Obi-Wan friendship in a different way.

Furthermore, you could have Anakin and Padme fall in love in the midst of the clone war. The Separatists are attacking Naboo, Anakin and his troops are sent to intercept on his first solo mission. Allows us to have the love story, gives the opportunity to showcase Anakin being heroic while also allowing us to show Anakin giving into the dark side more in battle. Maybe even throw Tarkin in there as a military commander. Now that I think about it, the love story would be better for the second film.

It is not “a part”, it is the whole movie! Again, without the Trade Federation blockade there is no Naboo crisis, and without the Naboo crisis there is no Palpatine’s election. How do you think they should have used the screen time instead? The movie shows what it’s supposed to show.

I can think of another way to streamline it. The Separatists are introduced in the first movie as a secessionist group. The surface level reason to blockade a planet is blackmail for independence (of course they’re actually doing it because Palpatine told them to). Palpatine’s able to make the Chancellor look weak because he doesn’t want to go to war, and because of that he’s able to get elected. By the end of the movie the clone war begins.

Starts the clone war earlier, more consistent villainous organization through the trilogy, and less of a need to explain space taxes.

You can do this alongside some other subplot. Maybe you do think we need to see Anakin found on Tatooine and his background and keep Qui-Gon. Maybe we just start with Obi-Wan and Anakin already master and apprentice and they’re the ones that try to negotiate instead of Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan. Include a subplot of Obi-Wan and Anakin uncovering the clone army, or maybe they’re too busy with something else and some other Jedi like Mace Windu, Plo-Koon, or even Yoda does that, allowing us to flesh out one of the other Jedi characters a bit. There’s a lot of ways you can retool the plot to be better structured.

If you prefer the Prequels just as they are, that’s excellent for you. I’m glad you find them fulfilling where I don’t. These are just my ideas and my opinions.

I ship Spideychelle (MCU Peter and MJ) and Tomdaya (Tom Holland and Zendaya)
My Star Wars Fan-Edits

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There’s a lot of ways you can retool the plot to be better structured.

Maybe you should rewrite the Prequels instead of doing fanedits, then. Have you ever thought that?

If you prefer the Prequels just as they are, that’s excellent for you. I’m glad you find them fulfilling where I don’t. These are just my ideas and my opinions.

That wasn’t the point of my replies. The point of my replies is: for the story they have to tell, the Prequels are intrinsically not good for a movie format, because there are a lot of things to explore, and there’s not enough screan-time to do it. So, it would have been better if they had been part of the EU. However, even with their limited amount of screan-time, I’m still capable of getting everything necessary to appreciate them.

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Spartacus01 said:

Maybe you should rewrite the Prequels instead of doing fanedits, then. Have you ever thought that?

Imma be honest, I haven’t worked on my fan-edits in a long while, and I’ve been thinking about doing rewrites for a long time. I’ve got a lot of ideas for the plot for each movie.

I’ll probably still make fan-edits of the Prequels tho, just so that when I do watch them they’ll be more enjoyable experiences. And for what it’s worth, I still enjoy ROTS a lot.

That wasn’t the point of my replies. The point of my replies is: for the story they have to tell, the Prequels are intrinsically not good for a movie format, because there are a lot of things to explore, and there’s not enough screan-time to do it. So, it would have been better if they had been part of the EU. However, even with their limited amount of screan-time, I’m still capable of getting everything necessary to appreciate them.

That’s cool. I personally would’ve preferred if the 3 movies could stand on their own, but I’m glad you appreciate them for what they are.

I ship Spideychelle (MCU Peter and MJ) and Tomdaya (Tom Holland and Zendaya)
My Star Wars Fan-Edits

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I’ll probably still make fan-edits of the Prequels tho, just so that when I do watch them they’ll be more enjoyable experiences. And for what it’s worth, I still enjoy ROTS a lot.

I want to created edits of the Prequels as well. I already have my Attack of the Clones edit completed if you’re interested.

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for the story they have to tell, the Prequels are intrinsically not good for a movie format, because there are a lot of things to explore, and there’s not enough screan-time to do it. So, it would have been better if they had been part of the EU. However, even with their limited amount of screan-time, I’m still capable of getting everything necessary to appreciate them.

I look at it this way: if it’s 1993 or whatever and you’re trying to write the Prequels from scratch, what would you focus on? Suppose your goal is to generate the maximum amount of drama and audience emotional investment possible. What is the most effective way to achieve that? The obvious answer is to focus on the tragic friendship of Anakin and Obi-Wan, from the beginning to the heart-wrenching betrayal. The limited backstory we get in the OT practically screams that this should be the focus. Sure, there are other details… clones, a Republic becoming an Empire, etc., but those things really are just window dressing.

I mean how many times does Vader bring up Obi-Wan in the OT? He brings him up to Luke all the time. It’s clear their relationship was incredibly significant for both of them, for better or worse.

Yet the Prequels don’t really make this the main focus until Episode 3, at which point it’s way too late to generate any serious emotional impact. Even worse, Anakin spends most of Episode 2 complaining that Obi-Wan sucks. To this day I’m surprised Lucas just didn’t seem that interested in their friendship, opting instead to tell a more cluttered story, with Palpatine’s antics really being the main through line, and only 2 out of 3 films actually featuring Anakin.

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Channel72 said:

But when people say TCW Anakin is a completely different character or that Filoni fixed him, it isn’t really correct. He’s the same as ROTS Anakin, we just got to see more of him.

Meh… I don’t know. Maybe it’s just the way Lucas directed Hayden Christensen, or perhaps Christensen’s own creative choices, but his portrayal of Anakin often bordered on eerily unstable or psychotic, like he’s channeling Malcolm McDowell in a Clockwork Orange. Even during the opening sequence of ROTS, where Anakin is arguably the most level-headed and closest to what I would have imagined him to be, Christensen still occasionally injects this underlying element of borderline personality disorder that comes out sometimes in a facial expression or line delivery.

In contrast, Clone Wars Anakin is a lot closer to something like a Han Solo/Luke Skywalker hybrid. Basically a typical “hot shot” hero character who sometimes also functions as an anti-hero when he wants to be expedient. This portrayal is definitely closer to how I imagined Anakin to be prior to the Prequels, but I also think it loses a lot of the vulnerability that Christensen’s portrayal offered.

Regardless, it’s hard to reconcile the two portrayals as representing the same character. I think a perfect Anakin portrayal would combine elements of the Filoni incarnation with some elements of Christensen’s portrayal, like the occasional vulnerability. I also think Anakin should be a bit less brash/Han Solo-esque, and more of a “by the book” guy that values courage, loyalty and stability. (These are the kind of traits that need to be exploited for him to become Vader.)

Being italian and having watched the PT for many years in italian only, i can safely say he comes out a bit better than the original, it’s by no extent of the imagination a perfect dubbing, mostly because the voice actor still needs to emulate at least sometimes his tone, unfortunately we traded a better performance for Anakin for the clearly superior acting that Ewan McGregor gave for Obi-Wan in original language, not to mention McDiarmid’s priceless Palpatine acting.
I would almost compare it to Schwarzenegger’s case, i know his bad Austrian accent is iconic, but if you watch his movies in any other language (italian would indeed be mine, although i admit especially from the late 70s through early 90s the italian voice acting landscape was ON FIRE, so that gives it more of an edge), they become whole different movies.

As far as the topic goes, I would say that it really depends how much Lucas was actually involved in at least bouncing off ideas back and forth with Filoni.
It’s painfully clear at this point that George’s strong suit is being an idea man, so i wonder how much he “idea’d” stuff for the CW, i guess we’ll never really know, no matter how many documentaries can be available about the making of TCW.