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George Lucas on Special effects and filmaking during making of ROTJ — Page 2

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I'm rather new to this site but have read many forums and I'm amazed ,at the animosity towards Lucas and his films. First off,to the fans of Godzilla,umm how many sites are dedicated to this "gem" of film making?? Give me a break! I'm hoping that sarcasm was your aim with stating that pile of crap was better than the PT. Now I have been a fan since I was 10 in 1977 and my love for the series has not waned even through the "dark times" of the late 80's and 90's when star wars went out of vogue. I kept on watching the OT on VHS then Laserdisc. The SE's were an exciting time for many of us,with the cleaning up of the movie image,better audio quality and the joy of seeing it on the BIG SCREEN. I agree some of the added SPFX were not needed and even bad...the first Jabba(who looked like a toad),Greedo firing first ,even those big dinosaur like creatures on Tatooine. Empire was totally fine with me,except for the Luke screaming bit when falling thru the shaft on Bespin,btw that was "the emperor scream from ROTJ"

Now to the PT, which I admit don't live up to the OT in many respects but not due to the CGI used because even though Lucas did say "it was not the spfx but the story that made the movie" ,movie goers expect a higher standard to the SPFX in films  and Lucas having the capability to show a bigger,grander universe did just that and I love almost everything shown in the PT. Storywise, george had been assistance with the writing in the OT from Lawrence Kasdan,also his decision to sit out of the director's chair in Empire was his wisest decision. Not saying he did a bad job with A New Hope,just something about him not directing in Empire made it the best in my opinion. You can see he had much more directorial influence with ROTJ...not sure why he didn't have total confidence in Richard Marquand,but the ewoks were a bit what Jar Jar Binks would become . He manned the Directors chair for the PT as you all know and it showed that he was not the same guy that he was in 1976 . He had great actors to work with,Liam Neeson,Ewan Mcgregor,Natalie portman,Ian Mcdiarmid,Sam Jackson and even Frank Oz bring life back to Yoda,its just they were given some lame dialogue and poor direction and I think alot of it was due to his concentration on the SPFX surrounding all of these fine actors. However,the PT in a greater point of view fulfilled the storyline and whatever way he accomplished it...I give him great credit and appreciation . Like any other "editor" in these forums, their vision is just as acceptable as George's,plus the fact it is HIS story and if you don't like them stop complaining and hope for GODZILLA 2,but I wouldn't hold your breath.

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Um, the only real thing coming close to "hate" in Jorge's general direction stems from the fact that he's not releasing the original, unaltered versions of the old trilogy films in high quality, as far as I've seen.

 

Valid vision or not, his story or not, we all can sure complain and criticize about his horrible scriptwriting for the new movies, and every failure contained in them. You know... stop complaining ;)

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lordsidi said:


(tl;dr)


Like any other "editor" in these forums, their vision is just as acceptable as George's,plus the fact it is HIS story and if you don't like them stop complaining and hope for GODZILLA 2,but I wouldn't hold your breath.

You are in the wrong place, guy.  You want TF.n.

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 (Edited)

lordsidi I was being sincere in saying that for all it faults Godzilla (1998) is a more watchable film than any of the PT films.

It had a story which followed it's own internal logic quite well, the characters (while broadly drawn) spoke real dialogue and reacted to the situations in which they found themselves in a believable fashion (within the context of the story being told) and the action sequences were visually interesting most of the time.

The PT had nonsensical plots, poor to middling performances from talented actors, obvious insert actions scenes which lacked much in the way of narrative bookending, leaden direction and inconsistent and unremarkable special effects even for it's day.

The number of websites devoted to Godzilla (1998) may not be as high as number of websites devoted to the PT but that could largely be down to Japanese Monster movie fans being more discerning about the legacy of their chosen object of devotion than many Star Wars Brand worshipers and disowning the 1998 film even though it wasn't actually that bad.

Lucas' comments on that film were met by nodding approval by many Star Wars fans hoping for a continuation of their chosen object of devotion to be something more than a cynical use of an established brand for milking more money than was due from yet another disposable popcorn movie.

The end result being such an artistic flop leads me to suspect that either George had those words scripted for him by someone who can write or he has some sort of blind spot to irony.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6Dp2OfIT_M

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Bingowings said:

The end result being such an artistic flop leads me to suspect that either George had those words scripted for him by someone who can write or he has some sort of blind spot to irony.

  Or possibly it's both..........

The poster also known as, "Tosche-Station"

"This is spurious business!" -  'Anonymous'

"Don't freakin' dissemble!" - Jack Nicholson as the Joker if he were in the movie 'Anger Management'

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TV's Frink said:

lordsidi said:


(tl;dr)


Like any other "editor" in these forums, their vision is just as acceptable as George's,plus the fact it is HIS story and if you don't like them stop complaining and hope for GODZILLA 2,but I wouldn't hold your breath.

You are in the wrong place, guy.  You want TF.n.

 No I'm not in the wrong place,GUY because if I'm not mistaken this is called "General Star Wars Discussion". If you understood what I wrote I was not blind to the fact that there were many problems with some of the factors concerning the Star Wars series,but GL put his own money...again,into projects that he loved and I'm guessing wanted the public to enjoy. He had many talented people working as hard as any of the artists did with the original trilogy. He did not have to go back to the Star Wars universe because he just wanted to F**K with the fans. He's admitted on documentaries that he did become what he was fighting against in the 70's and that is a corporation. With the success of his other ventures and companies Lucasfilm became bigger and bigger. I"m not just a blind,mindless follower of his and have disliked some products that came from his industry,but I rarely if ever see anyone defend him or his character. If he solely wanted to rake in the cash he wouldn't have started episode 1 with "trade disputes and senate intrigues" which I don't think most kids would fully understand or appreciate and he was not pandering to the fanboy populace,either. He put down on paper and eventually film what he wanted the story to flesh out to become.  I remember many critics who thought the OT was a pointless mesh of one dimensional characters speacking one dimensional dialogue ,while the SPFX dominated the movies and were only for weak minded children and just a waste of time for the "Adult Mentality". Now these movies are in the list of the best films of the twentieth century and not just because of the Box Office receipts.                 Regarding that master filmaker Roland Emmerichs' "masterpiece" GODZILLA,it had nothing to due to the japanese movie monster fans being more discerning,because it had NOTHING to do with the Japanese GODZILLA! It was panned in Japan and most other "discerning" movie goers minds as a pale imitation of the REAL Godzilla anyway....LOL ,I can't even believe I'm talking about this crappy movie in comparison to the Star Wars saga! We will see in twenty years which movies are more cherished....oh yeah,in regards to the whining and bitching about the unaltered OT not being released AGAIN on blu ray,,there are enough VHS's,Laserdiscs and versions on other sites for anyone to obtain the PERFECT version of the movies....so buy or download it and get over yourselves and your hatred and disgust for LUCAS...."for we all know that leads to the Dark Side"...:)

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lordsidi said:

oh yeah,in regards to the whining and bitching about the unaltered OT not being released AGAIN on blu ray,,there are enough VHS's,Laserdiscs and versions on other sites for anyone to obtain the PERFECT version of the movies....

Phew.  For a second there I thought you were serious.  But once this part came along, I realized you're just goofing around.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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lordsidi said:' Now these movies are in the list of the best films of the twentieth century and not just because of the Box Office receipts.   

  Still waiting for that to happen with the PT.....

The poster also known as, "Tosche-Station"

"This is spurious business!" -  'Anonymous'

"Don't freakin' dissemble!" - Jack Nicholson as the Joker if he were in the movie 'Anger Management'

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Bingowings said:

I fear we are in the presence of a Goblin Market Salesman.

  roflmao

 

The poster also known as, "Tosche-Station"

"This is spurious business!" -  'Anonymous'

"Don't freakin' dissemble!" - Jack Nicholson as the Joker if he were in the movie 'Anger Management'

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Bocce_Linguist said:

lordsidi said:' Now these movies are in the list of the best films of the twentieth century and not just because of the Box Office receipts.   

  Still waiting for that to happen with the PT.....

 I never said the PT will make the list but I think Empire was JUST inducted into the list and its been about 30 yrs since its release,right? Listen I didn't come on to bicker and obviousley you all are fans,but instead of bashing just toss out your copies of the PT *if you own them that is* and look online...there are many untouched original versions now with blu ray quality,thanks to people on this site,then you don't ever have to put another cent into "Fat and Mad King George's" coffers.

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 (Edited)

lordsidi said:

First off,to the fans of Godzilla,umm how many sites are dedicated to this "gem" of film making?? Give me a break! I'm hoping that sarcasm was your aim with stating that pile of crap was better than the PT.

Anyone who can make a film like Stargate is leaps and bounds beyond post-inspired George.

“If you err it is not for me to punish you. We are punished by our sins not for them.”

— Elbert Hubbard

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Bingowings said:

I suppose you are the sort of person who uses a bookshop as a library, this site has a pretty strong anti-piracy stance.

Yep, I learned early on to not even hint at piracy.

"The other versions will disappear. Even the 35 million tapes of Star Wars out there won’t last more than 30 or 40 years. A hundred years from now, the only version of the movie that anyone will remember will be the DVD version [of the Special Edition], and you’ll be able to project it on a 20’ by 40’ screen with perfect quality. I think it’s the director’s prerogative, not the studio’s to go back and reinvent a movie." - George Lucas

<span> </span>

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GL prlly did the special effects to keep up with what he had originally visualized when making the OT. I guess he did say something like that when he did the special editions of the film.

These came before the movie if you got the VHS when it first released.

 

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Um LorJedi, I don't get what you're whining about. You're saying things like "yea, but George made movies he loved" or "he inserted trade disputes because he wanted" or "doesn't he have a right to fulfill his visions?", and even bring up criticisms towards the original trilogy.

Okay... AND?

What does any of the above matter to anything? Why are you posting that? There's a crapload of shitty movies out there, and their creators had every right to make them as they see fit. We all realize that. What's your point?

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I really thought I wouldn't have to defend myself this much,but is'nt this a "general discussion about star wars" discussion site? Um twooffour,I didn't um think I was um whining. I um posted my points of view in several replies trying to give my point of view regarding...um,what I have read in a lot of Postings on this and other sites and that was a general distaste of anything Lucas has done with the star wars series after 1983.           

Regarding Stargate,yes in the lean years of sci fi/fantasy this was a welcome addition and I enjoyed it,but ever since Mr.Emmerich just seems to want to destroy the earth via aliens,giant radioactive salamanders or global warming.

My point about the original unaltered OT was that it is not gone and if your bitter that it won't be released*or maybe it will someday* ,I'm sorry. I didn't add my thoughts to offend or make fun of anyone on here but I guess its easy to be offensive to someone who has a different point of view when your sitting behind a keyboard....so fire away,full broadsides,if you want. 

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^That's not really the attitude to have... certainly there are some of us who would jump at the chance, but generally we understand opinions are opinions. There are a few saga fans that remain on this site, but - to be honest - most get driven out by our insanity. If you decide to stick around, while there is a lot of negativity, I think you'll find some of the most open discussion around.

A Goon in a Gaggle of 'em

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lordsidi said:

.oh yeah,in regards to the whining and bitching about the unaltered OT not being released AGAIN on blu ray,,there are enough VHS's,Laserdiscs and versions on other sites for anyone to obtain the PERFECT version of the movies....so buy or download it and get over yourselves

What does that even mean?

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I don't think he understood the intention of this site when he joined.

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 (Edited)

lordsidi said:

I um posted my points of view in several replies trying to give my point of view regarding...um,what I have read in a lot of Postings on this and other sites and that was a general distaste of anything Lucas has done with the star wars series after 1983.           

 

So how does "distaste for everything Lucas has done since 83" stand in any sort of conflict or contradiction to anything you said, or is invalidated by any of the points you brought up, such as "he does what he loves", or "it was his vision"?

 

My point about the original unaltered OT was that it is not gone and if your bitter that it won't be released*or maybe it will someday* ,I'm sorry. I didn't add my thoughts to offend or make fun of anyone on here but I guess its easy to be offensive to someone who has a different point of view when your sitting behind a keyboard....so fire away,full broadsides,if you want. 

Yea, the original clips are all available on Youtube, but there's no official HQ release of those versions.
As for the rest, you're kinda sounding like you're 7 years old.

 

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Lucas having the capability to show a bigger,grander universe did just that

Grander? Maybe. Bigger? Definitely not. After ESB, each successive installment of the Star Wars series gradually shrunk the universe. The same damned planet (that's supposed to be in the middle of nowhere) shows up in 5 out of the 6 movies. With the PT, interpersonal relations get so tangled up between all of the main characters that it's hard to believe this saga takes place in an arena any larger than a city block, let alone a vast, immeasurable galaxy. Vader made 3p0 and lived next door to Greedo! Obi-wan knew Boba Fett! Chewie and Yoda were best buds! This, to you, is a bigger universe?

there are many untouched original versions now with blu ray quality

Now that's just objectively untrue. When it comes to issues like artistic merit and personal taste, you're free to throw around the "that's just your opinion!!!111one1!1" tautology, but right now you're declaring something that is factually incorrect. There are no untouched original versions in even passable DVD quality, let alone blu-ray. Adywan and Harmy have done masterful jobs with their ESB and ROTJ reconstructions, but even as good as they are, they will only ever be reconstructions. D_J's GOUT V. 3 looks incredibly promising, but the source material he's using is so limited that even this set will never be quite what a decent DVD release of the theatrical Star Wars trilogy should have been. Get your facts straight next time.

Every 27th customer will get a ball-peen hammer, free!

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I'd say the universe portrayed in the PT is visibly larger in scale than the one in the OT (more "exotic" planets and wacky aliens, that galactic senate mushroom, the overall scenery etc.), it's the STORY with its CONTRIVANCES that comes off as EXTREMELY UNBELIEVABLE.

Maybe it's just me, but when I see Kirk hit on College-Uhura in a bar, I don't think "wow, this universe is really SMALL", that's rather what I think when characters zip around from star system to star system without FTL - I just think, "wow, now that's convenient".

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Geographically the Star Wars Galaxy is the same size in the OT and the PT (galaxy sized).

I imagined that worlds like those existed just by seeing the Cantina scene in the first film.

The Marvel comics etc (back when they were the only continuation of the films) didn't expand the geographical/astronomical scope of that realm either they just fitted into the world I already imagined.

The ROTJ and the PT did contract the narrative scale of the universe by giving the characters we see the same interaction chances of a small village.

It's more like a daytime soap opera than an epic space opera.

Luke being Vader's son is narratively plausible but everything else is a Robot Chicken sketch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6Dp2OfIT_M