Idea: About De-SEizing the DVDs... We need to Vote on Changes! — Page 2

Author: Klingon_Jedi
Time: 28-Sep-2004 6:58 AM
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To be fair, a completely De SEed version would have to be made.

http://www.theforce.net/swse/anh/lucasfil.JPG

(This is the opening logos. Original or shiney logos?)
neutral

2)

http://www.theforce.net/swse/anh/riverbed.JPG

(Digitally darkened sky)
no

3)

http://www.theforce.net/swse/anh/sancrDark.jpg

(Ditto)
no

4)

http://www.theforce.net/swse/anh/dewback.JPG

(Digital Dewbacks and such)
no

5)

http://www.theforce.net/swse/anh/sandcraw.JPG

(alternate shot of the sandcrawler, this time closer to the camera)
neutral

6)

http://www.theforce.net/swse/anh/landspdr.JPG

(digitally touching up the landspeeder)
neutral

7)

http://www.theforce.net/swse/anh/benhouse.JPG

(different shot of Obi-Wan's hut)
no

8)

http://www.theforce.net/swse/anh/speeder2.jpg

(more landspeeder touchups)
neutral

9)

http://www.theforce.net/swse/anh/mosEisLong.jpg

(Barley different at all, shot of Mos Eisley)
no

10)

http://freewebhosting.hostdepartment.com/s/starwarstrilogydvd/img/anh/Small-MosEisleyEnter04.jpg

(Digital speeder)
no

11)

http://www.theforce.net/swse/anh/longmose.JPG

(several new shots of Mos Eisley, and alterations made to existing shots)
hell no. however, would it be possible to clean up the R2 droid smeared by the vasiline yet lose the Ronto?

12)

http://www.theforce.net/swse/anh/dewBar.jpg

(Digital dewback now "barks" as the gang enters the Cantina)
no

13)

http://www.theforce.net/swse/anh/hatGuy.jpg

(Wolfman replaced with reptile thing)
no

14)

http://www.theforce.net/swse/anh/informnt.jpg

(Digital dewback added behind stromtroopers, with another dismounting)
no

15)

http://www.theforce.net/swse/anh/betyouhave.jpg

(Greedo now shoots first)
hell no

16)

http://www.theforce.net/swse/anh/door2doo.jpg

(Digital droid accompanies troopers from door to door)
hell no

17)

http://www.theforce.net/swse/anh/sell.jpg

(digital swooping doorway and air traffic)
no

18)

http://freewebhosting.hostdepartment.com/s/starwarstrilogydvd/img/anh/Small-HanJabba04.jpg

(This does NOT mean to vote for if Jabba is better than the '97 version. This vote is for the scene at all.)
absolutely not

19)

http://www.theforce.net/swse/anh/mfleave1.JPG

(digital shot of the Falcon taking flight)
no

20)

http://www.theforce.net/swse/anh/mfleave2.JPG

(Falcon now "arches" out of frame)
no

21)

http://www.theforce.net/swse/anh/alderaan.jpg

(new Alderann explosion, with "ring")
no

You forgot the changed Docking bay 327. I'd vote neutral to no, since no one notices that(even I had to read about it).

22)

http://www.theforce.net/swse/anh/deadEnd.jpg

(the room of troopers Han runs into is now extended by about 100 troops, and even a TIE fighter)
no

23)

http://freewebhosting.hostdepartment.com/s/starwarstrilogydvd/img/anh/Small-Corridor04.jpg

(new forced perspective shot of the hallway)
neutral leaning to yes

24)

http://freewebhosting.hostdepartment.com/s/starwarstrilogydvd/img/anh/DSCorridor04.jpg

(more hallway modifications)
neutral leaning to yes

25)

http://freewebhosting.hostdepartment.com/s/starwarstrilogydvd/img/anh/GarbageCreature04.jpg

(new garbage creature)
no

26)

http://www.theforce.net/swse/anh/magnum.jpg

(messing with Leia's blaster sounds)
hell no

27)

http://www.theforce.net/swse/anh/blastdoor.jpg

(re-added the "close the blast doors" line)
no

28)

http://freewebhosting.hostdepartment.com/s/starwarstrilogydvd/img/anh/Small-VaderObiFight104.jpg

(lightsabers updated to look like the prequels)
neutral

29)

http://freewebhosting.hostdepartment.com/s/starwarstrilogydvd/img/anh/Small-ObiSaber04.jpg

(corrected Obi-Wan's fading saber)
neutral

30)

http://www.theforce.net/swse/anh/mfexitds.JPG

(New "blast" as the Falcon departs the Death Star)
neutral

31)

http://www.theforce.net/swse/anh/targetCm.jpg

(more sounds added to the controls)
no

32)

http://www.theforce.net/swse/anh/mfYavin.jpg

(Digital Falcon approaches Yavin)
no

33)

http://www.theforce.net/swse/anh/yavinMF.jpg

(Falcon added to the foreground, landing)
neutral

34)

http://www.theforce.net/swse/anh/massaii.jpg

(different temple)
neutral

35)

http://www.theforce.net/swse/anh/lukeBiggs.jpg

(conversation with Biggs added)
neutral

36)

http://www.theforce.net/swse/anh/leaveyav.JPG

(different shot of Xwings replacing the old, "sparkles")
hell no

37)

http://www.theforce.net/swse/anh/xwingsCG.jpg

(different Death Star approach shot)
hell no

38)

http://www.theforce.net/swse/anh/sfoils.jpg

(simple, whole Battle of Yavin. original, or special)
absolutely not. Perhaps the cleaned up matte lines but no CG

39)

http://www.theforce.net/swse/anh/dsExplode.jpg

(ring added to the Death Star explosion)
hell no

40)

http://www.theforce.net/swse/anh/award.jpg

(cardboard people replaced with real people)
neutral

NO PICS I COULD FIND

41) Luke's new saber. said to turn green at odd times.
no

42) Tractor beam text replaced with Aurebesh.
neutral

Thanks for the index. However, all this shows is that a completely deSEed version is absolutely necessary. I doubt we can all agree on a universal SE edit.

Made for IE Forum's Episode III theme month - May 2005.

Author: Hal 9000
Time: 28-Sep-2004 8:52 AM
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Yes I agree, we need to have a completely DE-SEized DVD.

This is just for future reference if anyone in the future decides to create a hybrid to go along *with it*. Or entirely seperate.

My stance on revising fan edits.

Author: INv8r_ZIM
Time: 28-Sep-2004 10:30 AM
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Well, if this is a discussion about doing a "Best of Both Worlds" version....I could live with:

The digitally darkened skies

The cleanup on the landspeeder shots

ObiWan's new house

Buisier distant shot of Mos Eisley (#9)

The more interesting path of the falcon leaving Mos Eisley (#20)

The new digital matte of half of docking bay 327 (no one notices that? It's really quite a nice touch and fixed a pretty bad perspective problem)

The new detention block hallway

New lightsabers throughout, including the fix of ObiWans saber in the dissapearing shot

All the new sounds during the Falcons' escape from the DS

The Falcon LANDING on Yavin 4, not the approach shots, just that one with the rebel trooper

The new temple

To emphasize, there are some cuts I feel particularly strongly about needing to be made:

Obviously Han shoots first
NO Jabba.
NO extended entry into Mos Eisley. THAT was piss poor work by ILM, no question.
NO rings on the planet and DS explosions.
NO "close the blast doors!". The line is funny, the ORIGINAL reading, which I remember from '78 was funny. This is a crappy read.
NO conversation with Biggs and Red Leader. The Biggs conversation is stilted, but okay. The big problem is that it leads directly into theconversation with Red Leader, and that god awful wipe to eliminate all reference to Anakin. If the entire scene existed somewhere, I'd say use it, but as is, no.
NO "Buy the Toys!" shot of the fighters rising out of the forest

Author: norinradd
Time: 28-Sep-2004 10:31 AM
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My Back to OT edit so far for ANH

1.Corrected Han and Greedo scene

2.Cut Mos Eisley cgi back to the more clustrophobic 77 shots

3.Replace Ben kraytt Dragon call with old version

4.Re rotoscoped lukes green saber frames *correctly*

5.Re mixed/leveled the sound in a few frames

6.Cut jabba and Han scene.

its a work in progress and its gonna take some time

Egon "Don't Cross the streams it would be very bad"

Peter "i'm fuzzy on the whole good/bad thing"

Egon "lmagine the 97 Star Wars Special Editions"

Author: Klingon_Jedi
Time: 28-Sep-2004 10:55 AM
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Originally posted by: INv8r_ZIM
The new digital matte of half of docking bay 327 (no one notices that? It's really quite a nice touch and fixed a pretty bad perspective problem)

I say that because we now have two lists of ANH changes and it's on neither. i myself am not too against it, I just don't see why the Death Star has to look like the Death Star II in that respect. Also, it not just "half " of docking bay 327. The interior of the lift was redone, and that's a CGI Falcon. Yet the hole in the glow where the Falcon's support bar was is still there.

Made for IE Forum's Episode III theme month - May 2005.

Author: Wet Willy
Time: 28-Sep-2004 3:15 PM
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I vote leave it all alone!!! If it was not filmed in 1975-1977 then it does not exist!

http://home.comcast.net/~jaks1966/stuff2.jpg

Author: ricarleite
Time: 28-Sep-2004 3:25 PM
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Keep everything from the 1977 version unaltered, but keep the "EPISODE IV - A NEW HOPE", keep the new Biggs scene, and you may fix the lightsabers, matte lines and lightsaber cuts. Keep the "close the blast doors" line too, and the scene which Chewbacca scares the little droid. The credits can be messed up as much as Lucasfilm wants to (credits James Earl Jones, copyright changes, THX).

“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering

Author: Darth Justin
Time: 28-Sep-2004 4:07 PM
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Originally posted by: Commander Courage

Originally posted by: Darth Justin
I've noticed Obi-Wan's batteries running out. I don't even think anything was done about this in the DVD edition.

No, the lightsabers in the Vader/Kenobi duel were fixed perfectly.

Not really. That 1 shot where his saber goes out looks the same.

Author: wadetv
Time: 30-Sep-2004 8:35 PM
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Because of the lost in picture quality I would prefer just removing all added scenes and replacing CGI'd scenes as littlle as possible. The only new scene that should be kept is the falcon taking off as it is the best done scene in the SE and seemed seemless. The scenes that must be changed is Greedo shooting first. Also, the music in the speakers has been flipped and that should be switched (check out thedigitalbits.com for details). Also, most audio should be fixed back to the original if it matches the video well enough.

I must again emphasize that for tallying and voting purposes the decisions should be made 5 or 10 at a time. It would be much easier and people would not be intimidated from voting.

PS: I remember someone posting that they had the high quality copy of the 1997 SE that they used to show the movies on TV. That should be the reference used for putting the original Anniken at the end of Jedi not the laserdiscs.

Author: Hal 9000
Time: 30-Sep-2004 10:00 PM
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I admit, this voting thing is not serving a real purpose.

It's more of a "which changes EXACTLY do you like/dislike"?

My stance on revising fan edits.

Author: Pemdawg
Time: 1-Oct-2004 12:02 AM
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I personally am against re-editing the 04 versions. After seeing the "color correction" done to it, I feel the whole film has been blighted, and not worth the effort. Stuff has been digitally painted all over, to add more richness and color to it. None of you has taken that aspect of the "remaster" into account. Im 100% against the re edit. I'll wait to see what MeBeJedi comes out with.

What do you mean there's no ice? I gotta drink this coffee hot?!

Author: Darth_Drad
Time: 1-Oct-2004 3:38 AM
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Originally posted by: Hal 9000
As you all know, we've heard lots of talk around here about messing with the official SE DVDs and using as much of them as source for a super -duper-OOT DVD.
As in use DVD footage, pluggin in Laserdisc footage where necessary.
Now this leaves us with an exciting oppurtunity to not only preserve the Original Versions, but to create the ultimate hybrid.
Featuring only changes that we the fans dub as A-OK. So what I propose is that we take up a vote on EVERY single change made, and use that as a basis for creating the "OT/SE Hybrid" to fit alongside the complete O-OT.
(In a sense, what the 'Special Edition's should have been all along)

So I am going to number off every change made. You can either vote yes or no for each one.

1)

(This is the opening logos. Original or shiney logos?) NEW (shiny)

2)

(Digitally darkened sky) NEW

3)

(Ditto) NEW

4)

(Digital Dewbacks and such) OLD

5)

(alternate shot of the sandcrawler, this time closer to the camera) NEW

6)

(digitally touching up the landspeeder) NEW

7)

(different shot of Obi-Wan's hut) NEW

8)

(more landspeeder touchups) NEW

9)

(Barley different at all, shot of Mos Eisley) NEW

10)

(Digital speeder) NEW

11)

(several new shots of Mos Eisley, and alterations made to existing shots) NEW (but without CG droids and rearing beast in the street)

12)

(Digital dewback now "barks" as the gang enters the Cantina) NEW

13)

(Wolfman replaced with reptile thing) OLD

14)

(Digital dewback added behind stromtroopers, with another dismounting) OLD

15)

(Greedo now shoots first) OLD

16)

(Digital droid accompanies troopers from door to door) NEW

17)

(digital swooping doorway and air traffic) NEW

18)

(This does NOT mean to vote for if Jabba is better than teh '97 version. This vote is for the scene at all.) NO

19)

(digital shot of the Falcon taking flight) NEW

20)

(Falcon now "arches" out of frame) NEW

21)

(new Alderann explosion, with "ring") NEW

22)

(the room of troopers Han runs into is now extended by about 100 troops, and even a TIE fighter) OLD

23)

(new forced perspective shot of the hallway) NEW

24)

(more hallway modifications) NEW

25)

(new garbage creature) NEW

26)

(messing with Leia's blaster sounds) NEW

27)

(re-added the "close the blast doors" line) OLD

28)

(lightsabers updated to look like the prequels) NEW

29)

(corrected Obi-Wan's fading saber) NEW

30)

(New "blast" as the Falcon departs the Death Star) NEW

31)

(more sounds added to the controls) NEW

32)

(Digital Falcon approaches Yavin) NEW

33)

(Falcon added to the foreground, landing) NEW

34)

(different temple) OLD

35)

(conversation with Biggs added) NEW

36)

(different shot of Xwings replacing the old, "sparkles") NEW

37)

(different Death Star approach shot) NEW

38)

(simple, whole Battle of Yavin. original, or special) NEW

39)

(ring added to the Death Star explosion) NEW

40)

(cardboard people replaced with real people) NEW

NO PICS I COULD FIND

41) Luke's new saber. said to turn green at odd times. OLD

42) Tractor beam text replaced with Aurebesh. OLD

I'll post ESB later. This took me a while to post, and I'll give you all time to look ANH over before I post ESB and ROTJ.

Author: norinradd
Time: 1-Oct-2004 9:51 AM
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Originally posted by: Pemdawg
I personally am against re-editing the 04 versions. After seeing the "color correction" done to it, I feel the whole film has been blighted, and not worth the effort. Stuff has been digitally painted all over, to add more richness and color to it. None of you has taken that aspect of the "remaster" into account. Im 100% against the re edit. I'll wait to see what MeBeJedi comes out with.

Thats your opinion and your entitled to it but i'm willing to put in the time and the effort and have already spent a week working on a back to 77 edit.
I have taken into account the remaster of the footage, difficult not to when you watched the same footage over and over, colour correction isn't hard but it is time consuming like alot of the work many of us are trying to achieve with this trilogy.

I'm doing this for myself there is going to be no bootleg, but rather than sit back and be critical of other peoples efforts I can at least sleep easy knowing that I have tried.

Egon "Don't Cross the streams it would be very bad"

Peter "i'm fuzzy on the whole good/bad thing"

Egon "lmagine the 97 Star Wars Special Editions"

Author: Hardcore Legend
Time: 20-Oct-2004 4:19 AM
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I just wanted to give this a bump because I was about to start on using the DVD to make an Original Star Wars cut. Can we have concise list of what needs[/b to be done. Little stuff of course may not be able to be fixed (droid floating around) simply because it would require hours of matte work. But I'm not ruling it out. So, can someone give me a list of the changes that need to be done.

The Jedi are all but extinct.......

Author: tellan
Time: 20-Oct-2004 7:58 AM
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in case no one is aware, there has also been subtle change to two very short scenes right after they arrive on the DS.

I'm talking about the TK421, why aren't you at your post scene when the two imperial personnel get blasted. on the DVD remaster, you no longer see the blaster bolt actually hit them in the chest, before they fall which is present on the VHS and LD versions but not on the 2004 DVD release. this is confirmed by a number of sites by the way. its subtle but those two bolt hits are missing.

also, one of the bolt hits in the cell bay has been altered the same way too.

as regards the changes my take is this

. original everything, unless the change was a digital recomposite to clean up matte lines. eg explosion of the y -wings in the trench run, snow battle in ESB. or fixes bad work in the original

eg the landspeeder being fixed so it hovers better.

so yes to

6,7,8,9

7 because the original establishing shot of ben's house was rubbish and the CG replacement is a very good matte in keeping with others in the trilogy.
9 because the addition of the ships makes us realise that mos eisley is there and not just a hodge podge of lines on the screen.

12 and 14.

digital dewbacks in mos eisley. the originals didn't work right and these do fit the scene okay, therefore, I feel a nice detail change that would have been done in the original.

23 and 24

cell bay corridor alteration, yes, because that is a fix for a set.

27 yes, close the blast doors was in originally and needs restoring, if it came to it I'd record a new line myself in soundforge and diddle it until it matched the mix.

28 and 29

lightsaber fixes so yes

33,34

better establishing shots of the rebel base

40

replaces crummy matte work

while I wish the original yavin battle to kept intact. I would edit in any original footage that was digitally re-comped and is therefore improved and cleaned up.

When a woman says yes, she means no - when she says maybe, she means no.

http://www.auky37.dsl.pipex.com/falconlogo_web.jpg

Author: DanielB
Time: 20-Oct-2004 9:12 PM
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Originally posted by: Warbler

Originally posted by: Hal 9000

It may never happen, so this thread may be just a "which SE changes do you like/dislike?"

I dislike all of the changes.

Most excellent.

Author: Laserman
Time: 21-Oct-2004 2:53 AM
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Well, it doesn't pay to get too hardcore about changes, the laserdisc definite edition and faces set are different to what was shown in 1977. A lot of you probably saw it in cinemas with a mono analogue soundtrack, so even the PCM soundtrack on the laserdiscs would be considered a 'change'.

I think there is just room for multiple versions - I like the clunky garbage mattes and other faults sometimes, it lets you kinda sneak a look at how it all works, but...
If I want to really lose myself, and get carried off into a galaxy far far away, I would rather watch a very clean transfer that was glitch free, in surround in my dark cinema with my 4 metre wide screen. For me some of the changes pull me out of that universe though (like th jabba scene and the anakin ghost).
So that's why I am trying to make an archival version, and an ultra high quality 'Inoffensive De-Specialed Edition' i.e. Glitches fixed, fat sound and the best picture quality possible that I can enjoy on the big screen. This means leaving in things that don't bug me enough to spoil the movie, and taking out those that do.
Unfortunately even playing from the original laserdisc at that screen size the image quality is too poor.

Author: DanielB
Time: 21-Oct-2004 6:26 AM
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The soundtrack was still mixed from 100% original material. Take for instance The Terminator - as I just posted on how I HAD to get the R1 - the 5.1 was not made entirely from original sounds. Was it even the same soundtrack? Hell no. It was completely re-made from the bottom-up. That makes its soundtrack a complete... REMAKE. That makes the movie a remake.

I'm not too fussy when it comes to director's cuts. Though I still think the theatrical should also be preserved, so long as they've used original material I don't mind - in fact in a lot of instances I prefer. Manhunter is a good example. Unfortunately it's not available in its true theatrical version on DVD either (AFAIK).

It's all in the spirit of original material - to me. If I write a book, and I decide chapter 5 is not really needed and remove it, and release my book like that then that's the story. Later on I might say "well, the original chapter 5 was important to character development, I'd like to re-insert it". And in doing so I'd put a note at the beginning of the book and at the beginning of chapter 5 explaining this was not part of the book the first time it was published. And that would be okay, becaus people can still choose to read it how it originally was. However, if I was to instead write a NEW chapter 5, or re-write a lot of the other stuff in the book - then that's not okay. I'm making a new story to replace the old one.

Author: DarthJardus
Time: 21-Oct-2004 6:59 PM
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Get rid of ALL SE changes except the landspeeder touch ups. Those are fine.

Author: Hardcore Legend
Time: 21-Oct-2004 8:48 PM
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Originally posted by: DarthJardus
Get rid of ALL SE changes except the landspeeder touch ups. Those are fine.

What about extending the detention block or the lightsaber fixes in Star Wars?

The Jedi are all but extinct.......

Author: tellan
Time: 22-Oct-2004 5:12 AM
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Laserman,

if you'd asked me two weeks ago if I would consider hacking the DVD release up and de SE'ing it, I'd have said you were mad but after browsing the forum for the last few days, I must admit to thinking it would be possible.

it's just a damn sight more work and would probably have to be done in premier (I hate that program) as my current SW trilogy DVD's were done using avisynth scripts, virtualdub and TMPGenc.

I have a feeling I might do a lot of the hacking up etc in virtualdub to make indvidual fixed scenes and reassemble it all in Premier, but my main question to you as you are a bit further along than me, (ie actually started) is how you are going to deal with the sound and keep it 5.1 while making changes?

are you going to seperate the 5.1EX out into seperate streams or what? I ask because there are going to be points in the movie where a simple cut/slice and removal of footage won't work.

example, mos eisley arrival. they are different lengths between SE and original
also, replacing the Xwing take off over jungle piece on Yavin IV.

if you keep the original scene, the sound is different and will therefore need splicing into the 5.1EX mix. how do you expect to achieve that? obviously this can be completely sidestepped by downmixing it to 2.0 stereo using besweet and then editing it as a stereo signal in soundforge. but obviously it would be nice to preserve 5.1 if possible.

i certainly fall into the 'would accept a few of the modern changes for changes sake, if in keeping with the original movie' school of thought.

cheers

Vincent Formosa 'tellan'

When a woman says yes, she means no - when she says maybe, she means no.

Author: bkev
Time: 3-Mar-2009 12:54 AM
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Bump for the fact taht I find this thread interesting.

A Goon in a Gaggle of 'em

Author: vbangle
Time: 3-Mar-2009 2:23 AM (Edited)
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bkev said:
Bump for the fact taht I find this thread interesting.

Bumping a thread that's been dead for 4+ years? You might need a hobby...?

I love everybody. Lets all smoke some reefer and chill. Hug and kisses for everybody.

Author: bkev
Time: 3-Mar-2009 3:36 AM
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Working on it... >________>

A Goon in a Gaggle of 'em

Author: Knightmessenger
Time: 9-Mar-2009 12:24 AM (Edited)
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Someone could use the official Lucasfilm comparison for screenshots of all the alterations to post. Is there the ability to make a poll here? That would be cool because I've always felt a majority of the changes are either generally liked or hated overall. There doesn't seem to be a lot of 50/50.

EDIT: Didn't realize this was 4 years old and recently bumped. Still think this is a good idea so long as there's the ability to make a poll.

Take back the trilogy. Execute Order '77

http://www.youtube.com/user/Knightmessenger