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George Lucas: Unreliable Narrator & Time Travelling Revisionist... — Page 3

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Mocata said:

doubleofive said:

Mocata said:

I was trying to find an interview with George that was in Empire magazine somewhere in the early 2000s. THX had just been released on DVD so it was a tie-in piece. So like, let’s say 2004. The interviewer asked him about the new changes to the film and the quote I want to say was something like…

“Oh it’s like Star Wars. There is no original version”.

Of course I could be mistaken and this is probably paraphrasing without remembering the actual question the journalist posed but the answer he gave stuck in my brain. I don’t own any copies of this magazine any more and I don’t think there’s a transcript online.

If you do find, this, let me know.

I’d have to find a list of back issues from that year and see if George interview is one of the cover articles. Maybe they’re digital these days.

Edit: Possibly this one https://www.magazinecollectors.co.uk/empire-magazine-185-2004-johnny-depp-cover-p-6973.html

Archive.org has some back issues.
https://archive.org/search.php?query=empire magazine

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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If only scribd was still around. Guess you’ll have to risk eBay and see if I remembered it right.

Yub Nub for life

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Ashdogg said:

Really interesting thread. I was watching a video on YouTube about whether fans are too hard on George Lucas, that are we to blame as to why Disney is now at the helm? But I remember all the criticisms that George has made over the years about Hollywood, that executives don’t know a decent movie when they get one. That it’s our fault that we don’t like “experimental” movies. I also remember how hyped all the fans were in 1999… and all the Jar Jar merch… yet all we wanted was a good movie. Are the fans too hard on George? I don’t think so. I don’t think we’re the reason why he sold his company. From my observations, fans are just giving their honest opinions.

Honestly I think the double standards are a huge part of why he sold the company.
I’ll use an Indiana Jones example.
The fridge nuke scene is no more ridiculous than the pontoon raft airplane escape scene in Temple of Doom, and yet…

Latter day Lucas movies aren’t perfect, but I think the fans are extremely over the top.

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Mocata said:

doubleofive said:

Mocata said:

I was trying to find an interview with George that was in Empire magazine somewhere in the early 2000s. THX had just been released on DVD so it was a tie-in piece. So like, let’s say 2004. The interviewer asked him about the new changes to the film and the quote I want to say was something like…

“Oh it’s like Star Wars. There is no original version”.

Of course I could be mistaken and this is probably paraphrasing without remembering the actual question the journalist posed but the answer he gave stuck in my brain. I don’t own any copies of this magazine any more and I don’t think there’s a transcript online.

If you do find, this, let me know.

Edit: Possibly this one https://www.magazinecollectors.co.uk/empire-magazine-185-2004-johnny-depp-cover-p-6973.html

I’ve just bought that issue of Empire on feebay - and will have a look through it in a few days mate.

 


 

The following three categories have also recently been added to the original post…

  • Who made the Original Trilogy films…?
  • The cost of restoring / preserving the Original Trilogy films; by George…
  • The cost of restoring / preserving the Original Trilogy films; by the fans…
     
originaltrilogy.com Moderator

I find that answer vague and unconvincing. Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves?
Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? And say something righteous and hopeful for a change?

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A superb recent find by doubleofive… (living up to his well-earned ‘00’ status 😉)

https://twitter.com/doubleofive/status/1151316503314227205

(taken from a 1999 interview with George Lucas, in Issue 78 of Cinefex)

^ which has been added to Category 15 of this thread; ‘The 1997 Special Editions - George Lucas’ ‘vision’ - was a paid-for experiment and practice for the coming CGI-heavy Prequel Trilogy; as stated by the man himself.
 

https://twitter.com/StarWarsVisComp
 

Complete Comparison of Special Edition Visual Changes thread in the ‘Theatrical Cuts vs. Subsequent Releases’ section.
 

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

I find that answer vague and unconvincing. Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves?
Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? And say something righteous and hopeful for a change?

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 (Edited)

Mocata said:

doubleofive said:

Mocata said:

I was trying to find an interview with George that was in Empire magazine somewhere in the early 2000s. THX had just been released on DVD so it was a tie-in piece. So like, let’s say 2004. The interviewer asked him about the new changes to the film and the quote I want to say was something like…

“Oh it’s like Star Wars. There is no original version”.

Of course I could be mistaken and this is probably paraphrasing without remembering the actual question the journalist posed but the answer he gave stuck in my brain. I don’t own any copies of this magazine any more and I don’t think there’s a transcript online.

If you do find, this, let me know.

Edit: Possibly this one https://www.magazinecollectors.co.uk/empire-magazine-185-2004-johnny-depp-cover-p-6973.html

On Page 65 of the November 2004 edition of Empire magazine (UK), in an exclusive interview with George Lucas; titled ‘THX 2004’…

 

Interviewer: First the Star Wars Special Editions, now this… why keep fiddling?

George Lucas: All artists go back and change things, and with film it’s even more so, because you have more constraints. Any of the films I’ve re-worked later on are films that were never really finished. Either due to financial constraints, or time constraints, or technological constraints. I just wasn’t able to get my story out there complete. I always had to settle for less. So what I’ve done is I’ve gone back and said “Now I’m going to make this the way it was supposed to be”.

Interviewer: So only the Special Edition Star Wars films will ever be available?

George Lucas: Yeah, it’s the same thing with THX1138 - there is no original version now.
 

(also in the interview pages is a blown-up quote, in large red lettering, from George - “There is no ‘original version’ of Star Wars or THX 1338 now.”)

later in the interview…
 

Interviewer: Can you finally lay to rest rumours about Episodes VII, VIII & IX?

George Lucas: There is no VII, VIII, IX. There never has been. The story was originally intended to be IV, V & VI. But I had a back story which I found fascinating, and I decided to do the back story, [which] had already been written. So now you’ve got the full story from beginning to end. There really isn’t any more, [so] I’m gonna go and do other kinds of movies, which I’ve been looking forward to for a very long time.

 

There is more to the interview. I’ll give it a more thorough read through in the next day or so - and will hopefully fire up the old scanner too - and will post it up on here…
 

Edit:-

Page 64…

Page 65…

Page 66…

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

I find that answer vague and unconvincing. Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves?
Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? And say something righteous and hopeful for a change?

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Are there people who don’t like that he opened up Cloud City and showed crowds and stuff?
Or is that change generally liked?

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Wrong thread. In fact, wrong subforum altogether. https://originaltrilogy.com/discussion/Theatrical-Cuts-vs-Subsequent-Releases/id/4

But to answer your question, I’m about 50/50 on it - they’re a little inconsistently applied, but they generally look nice and seem more in line with the type of aesthetic Lando would have gone for. But I kinda liked the claustrophobic feel of the original version, which gives the whole place more of a “prison-like” feel which fits the story at that point (even before you’re consciously aware that it’s a trap). So, like I said, 50/50 for me.

a trolling bantha

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doubleofive said:

MikeWW said:

Are there people who don’t like that he opened up Cloud City and showed crowds and stuff?
Or is that change generally liked?

It’d be better if it was consistant. Most of the windows only exist in one shot, then disappear in the next.

I’ve seen people say this, and maybe it’s true, but I’ve never noticed it. And I notice little things like Ewan’s mouthpiece/headset falling down in almost every shot of him in the opening of Episode 3.

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MikeWW said:

Are there people who don’t like that he opened up Cloud City and showed crowds and stuff?
Or is that change generally liked?

For me at least, it’s not about if the changes actually improve the movies or not. It’s about people not having the choice to see the original versions. This thread highlights how Lucas has suppressed the originals amongst his attempts to rewrite history.

Some of the changes I do find visually appealing, and perhaps I would regard the special editions more favorably if it were not for pretty much everything described in this thread. This thread should be printed and bound as one of the sacred Jedi texts. I think a documentary needs to be made.

Those groundbreaking original award winning movies were a cultural phenomenon and a significant piece of cinematic history. They should be preserved and made available for future generations. We should not let history be rewritten.

I begrudge no one who prefers the special editions. I just believe the original versions along with the people who made them and their history should be preserved along side.

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Indeed. Every set and prop was made by hand, and their work is being tarnished or deleted entirely.

Yub Nub for life

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Someone should take all of this information and make a youtube video. Not like one of those click-bait hate filled movie review rants, but a thought provoking informative documentary style piece that just puts it all out there. So many are simply unaware of so much.

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From doubleofive’s superb Complete Comparison of Special Edition Visual Changes thread in the Theatrical Cuts vs. Subsequent Releases section…
 

doubleofive said:

Holy crap, I did Greedo Shot First.

https://twitter.com/StarWarsVisComp/status/1168554173136166913

Frame by frame comparisons, GIF’s, the whole nine yards. I conclude that the “new” shot is based on a wide shot of Han shooting Greedo. They took the clarifying shot Lucas claims didn’t exist in the 70’s and changed it so Greedo shoots (at different times with different effects). It’s a fun read, hopefully.

 

💥 doubleofive knocks it out of the park - yet again! 💥
 

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

I find that answer vague and unconvincing. Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves?
Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? And say something righteous and hopeful for a change?

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This is a beautiful thread, along with many other pieces of information on here, but are you not worried that Lucasfilm may come after you guys for highlighting some of the topics you discuss here? I hope not, but it must be a concern?

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Force-Abel said:

This is a beautiful thread, along with many other pieces of information on here, but are you not worried that Lucasfilm may come after you guys for highlighting some of the topics you discuss here? I hope not, but it must be a concern?

Thank you, mate. It is a collaborative effort and really just compiling many of the already-known sources and info into a centralised thread (with the occasional new or enlightening piece of news or article found - or remembered! 😃)
 

I don’t believe Lucasfilm would ‘come after us’ for this thread - or others similar to it…

The information here is presented with credited and checked sources, and whilst some of it is indeed subjective - it does fall under fair comment. The aim of the thread is to strive for an accurate, revision-free, and authentic record on the history & evolution of Star Wars; and in doing so highlighting some of the myths, inconsistencies, revisionism, or simply changes of view, made over time.
 

They are certainly aware of this place, and despite the underground nature of it - along with some of the preservations, fan edits, and other projects on here for over 16 years now - we’re still here. We are strict on the rules regarding having to own the official retail release for projects - afterall… ’We ❤️ Star Wars and give it all the moneys.'. I personally think they acknowledge this place exists out of our desire to preserve and ‘fight for what we love - not because we hate’ (apologies for the butchering of Irvin Kershner’s quote whilst filming Empire Strikes Back) - though there are likely many different interpretations & views on this…
 

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

I find that answer vague and unconvincing. Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves?
Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? And say something righteous and hopeful for a change?

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Thank you for explaining. There is just so much infomration and content on here to absorb, it is hard to beleive that Lucasfilm, Fox or Disney over time has not tried to take it down. I am very happy thay have not, and to seeing and reading more here!

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We all get paranoid when bearded men in flannel appear to be following us in public though. 😛

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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The more digging you do: the more you scratch your head, tear your hair out and simply say: WHY?

Why the constant rewriting of history? Why the need to downplay other’s contributions? Why the shift in focus away from making films and telling stories?

The biggest eyeopener is reading Zombie’s Secret History book that agonizingly traces the route the telling and retelling and rewriting has taken over the years.

And to be honest I have no answer. I STILL can’t figure it out. Kubrick put it best in an old interview: “If I made as much money as George Lucas, I would not decide to become a studio mogul. I cannot understand why he doesn’t want to direct films anymore, because American Graffiti and even Star Wars were very good.”

As for the SEs originally being prep for the Prequels in terms of acting as a tech demo: Absolutely right. However Coppola got into the same scenario and that ended up as AN Redux-Yet he and everyone involved has NEVER removed the original superior version from circulation and in the newly completed restoration includes both versions along with a third newer cut.
Whereas it seems George was like: oh hey now I can finally fix this thing…and this…and this…and oh that’s nice…

Which is totally fine so long as you don’t try to actually hide away the original works and even perpetuate claims that they no longer exist. That’s the problem and has always been the issue. The exact same thing happened to THX-1138 and since it is a cult film practically no one speaks of it.

VADER!? WHERE THE HELL IS MY MOCHA LATTE? -Palpy on a very bad day.

“George didn’t think there was any future in dead Han toys.”-Harrison Ford

My review blog: thehificelluloidmonster.wordpress.com

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That Kubrick quote comes in handy anytime somebody on the Kubrick facebook group I belong to disparages Star Wars. 😉

Didn’t Coppola cut the original negative to AN in the process of making Redux?

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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For me to hear that Sk actually at least liked Star Wars was enough as a kid to make me ecstatic. It’s nice to remember he was a normal guy like us too. He even liked The Jerk!

I honestly don’t know for sure. It doesn’t seem like it-merely that they made the new cleaned up version for Redux and then used it on all subsequent masters. The new 4K Final Cut is from a complete restoration and all materials were scanned from negatives so it’s completely from scratch-then all three versions were done from there.

VADER!? WHERE THE HELL IS MY MOCHA LATTE? -Palpy on a very bad day.

“George didn’t think there was any future in dead Han toys.”-Harrison Ford

My review blog: thehificelluloidmonster.wordpress.com

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I like to imagine SK falling over with laughter at the cat juggling scene. 😉

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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He did call Steve up and had him over to play chess as well.

I’m currently reading the newish George (the title is Lucas: A Life) biography and it’s nice to have everything lined up in one place chronologically. So far I’ve only gotten to the ROTJ period but it doesn’t sugarcoat stuff and the SW section does cover some similar ground to Zombie but of course in far less detail.
I’ll be interested to see how the rest goes. Again it does refute the on and off revisionism in a lot of places and for once its a book that describes how all of the film school buddies were on and off again-especially detailing the George/Francis relationship which no one ever seems to go into all that much.
Admittedly It is SO much better than the older “everything was great” style bios.

Has anyone else here read it?

VADER!? WHERE THE HELL IS MY MOCHA LATTE? -Palpy on a very bad day.

“George didn’t think there was any future in dead Han toys.”-Harrison Ford

My review blog: thehificelluloidmonster.wordpress.com