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General Star Wars Random Thoughts Thread — Page 449

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ZkinandBonez said:

It’s a cool idea, but wouldn’t a more mystical reason make more sense in SW? E.g. the idea of bonding with a living crystal if you’re a Jedi, or “bleeding” it if you’re a Sith.

I don’t get why so many people don’t like the new lightsaber crystal lore. It’s such a Star Wars-y concept. They’ve even named them Kyber crystals.

because the inclination against the mystic side of Star Wars is strong among sci-fi nerds

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ZkinandBonez said:

It’s a cool idea, but wouldn’t a more mystical reason make more sense in SW? E.g. the idea of bonding with a living crystal if you’re a Jedi, or “bleeding” it if you’re a Sith.

I don’t get why so many people don’t like the new lightsaber crystal lore. It’s such a Star Wars-y concept. They’ve even named them Kyber crystals.

This is sort of where I’m at.

If anything I’m against any explanation of lightsaber color.

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timdiggerm said:

ZkinandBonez said:

It’s a cool idea, but wouldn’t a more mystical reason make more sense in SW? E.g. the idea of bonding with a living crystal if you’re a Jedi, or “bleeding” it if you’re a Sith.

I don’t get why so many people don’t like the new lightsaber crystal lore. It’s such a Star Wars-y concept. They’ve even named them Kyber crystals.

because the inclination against the mystic side of Star Wars is strong among sci-fi nerds

Rather, that the movies never indicate this level of ‘bonding with a living crystal’; Yoda relegates it to the status of Luke’s blaster in being just another distraction from his Jedi training in his test at the tree, and the Emperor casually dismisses it as a ‘Jedi’s weapon’, implying that the Sith wouldn’t use lightsabers at all. Vader presumably only has one because he was formerly a Jedi. The crystal is clearly not bonded too closely to Force users since Han can use Luke’s lightsaber just fine.

Point being, the lightsaber in the OT is merely an elegant weapon from a more civilized age. Giving it a ton of weird mystical baggage actually makes the weapon less elegant in the story, not more.

What a grand and intoxicating innocence. How could you be so naive? There is no escape. Come, lay down your weapons. It is not too late for my mercy.
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It’s as if buddhist monks start worshipping their staffs or if Knights Templar think their swords are relics. Just because they use weapons, doesn’t mean their weapons have to be mystical or holy objects.

Jedi worship life and the force, not lightsabers.

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Your_friendly_Imperial said:

It’s as if buddhist monks start worshipping their staffs or if Knights Templar think their swords are relics. Just because they use weapons, doesn’t mean their weapons have to be mystical or holy objects.

Jedi worship life and the force, not lightsabers.

No one worships their lightsabers in the new canon, they just added a mystical element to them which is almost entirely focused on the construction ritual.

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I mean, a simple argument to be made is if creating a lightsaber is part of Jedi training (established in ROTJ), then it probably shouldn’t be an entirely technical process.

NeverarGreat said:

timdiggerm said:

ZkinandBonez said:

It’s a cool idea, but wouldn’t a more mystical reason make more sense in SW? E.g. the idea of bonding with a living crystal if you’re a Jedi, or “bleeding” it if you’re a Sith.

I don’t get why so many people don’t like the new lightsaber crystal lore. It’s such a Star Wars-y concept. They’ve even named them Kyber crystals.

because the inclination against the mystic side of Star Wars is strong among sci-fi nerds

the Emperor casually dismisses it as a ‘Jedi’s weapon’, implying that the Sith wouldn’t use lightsabers at all. Vader presumably only has one because he was formerly a Jedi.

And yet he does not have the same one he had when he was a Jedi. Worth noting as well that in an earlier draft of ROTJ the Emperor had a saber as well (and indeed Lucas gave the Sith their own sabers in the PT). I wouldn’t call the line dismissive, and I don’t believe it was written to be.

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Lightsabers are not fantastic, they are Sci-Fi weapons. Some plasma in a containment field, with which you can cut stuff with. Imprinting your soul or hatred on them isn’t gonna do much. The jedi and sith enhance their own abilities to do fantastic things like blocking blaster shots.

Obi Wan’s lesson to Luke at the training session was to trust his own instincts, not his lightsaber.

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“This weapon is your life” is a horrendous piece of dialogue. Like really… can all Jedi even hold a weapon like that? Or even need to?

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NeverarGreat said:

A lightsaber’s color could be based on how often it is used, with the crystal wearing down and displaying ever redder colors over time:

I think a lightsaber colour should reflect the personality of the builder. Which is another reason why it would’ve been better for Luke to have had a red lightsaber in SW/TESB and Vader a blue one; Luke is passionate, impatient, and impulsive, while Vader is calm, cool, and collected.

Divergent Universes
Dreams of a Randy Git-Fiend

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Mocata said:

“This weapon is your life” is a horrendous piece of dialogue. Like really… can all Jedi even hold a weapon like that? Or even need to?

It could’ve been a brilliant piece of dialogue if Lucas had intended to show that the Jedi faith had deteriorated so far that they placed more trust in their weapons than in the Force. But as always, Lucas overlooked the potential in his own material and squandered it.

Divergent Universes
Dreams of a Randy Git-Fiend

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DuracellEnergizer said:

Mocata said:

“This weapon is your life” is a horrendous piece of dialogue. Like really… can all Jedi even hold a weapon like that? Or even need to?

It could’ve been a brilliant piece of dialogue if Lucas had intended to show that the Jedi faith had deteriorated so far that they placed more trust in their weapons than in the Force. But as always, Lucas overlooked the potential in his own material and squandered it.

Nailed it there.

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Or you know, it’s a weapon for self-defense.
Jedi don’t choke or electrocute people with the force.

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NeverarGreat said:

timdiggerm said:

ZkinandBonez said:

It’s a cool idea, but wouldn’t a more mystical reason make more sense in SW? E.g. the idea of bonding with a living crystal if you’re a Jedi, or “bleeding” it if you’re a Sith.

I don’t get why so many people don’t like the new lightsaber crystal lore. It’s such a Star Wars-y concept. They’ve even named them Kyber crystals.

because the inclination against the mystic side of Star Wars is strong among sci-fi nerds

Rather, that the movies never indicate this level of ‘bonding with a living crystal’; Yoda relegates it to the status of Luke’s blaster in being just another distraction from his Jedi training in his test at the tree, and the Emperor casually dismisses it as a ‘Jedi’s weapon’, implying that the Sith wouldn’t use lightsabers at all. Vader presumably only has one because he was formerly a Jedi. The crystal is clearly not bonded too closely to Force users since Han can use Luke’s lightsaber just fine.

Point being, the lightsaber in the OT is merely an elegant weapon from a more civilized age. Giving it a ton of weird mystical baggage actually makes the weapon less elegant in the story, not more.

Agreed.

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“The crystal is the heart of the blade. The heart is the crystal of the Jedi. The Jedi is the crystal of the Force. The Force is the blade of the heart. All are intertwined. The crystal. The blade. The Jedi. You are one.”

Source

Crystals often have a mystical quality to them, even in real life (not that I subscribe to it personally). In Star Wars, I think it fits just fine for the Jedi to view crystals as a spiritual asset that resides in their weapon of self-defense. Think about it; the crystal is merely an additional instrument in the weapon for the Jedi to further “see” the ripples of the Force around them. It vibrates and resonates within its surroundings, and to a non-Force sensitive, sure they could pick up the weapon and ignite it, but they would not sense the extension of the Force. Yes, Jedi can already feel disturbances in the Force, but perhaps the crystal inside a lightsaber is more like a precise and amplifying instrument when engaged in intense combat. Useful to “see” how and when an opponent will strike, similar to how the hairs on our bodies can detect micro-movements.
To sum up, no, not every Jedi needs a lightsaber. But it’s nonetheless a sacred weapon and useful so long as the wielder is well versed with the Force before hand.

The Rise of Failures

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NeverarGreat said:

timdiggerm said:

ZkinandBonez said:

It’s a cool idea, but wouldn’t a more mystical reason make more sense in SW? E.g. the idea of bonding with a living crystal if you’re a Jedi, or “bleeding” it if you’re a Sith.

I don’t get why so many people don’t like the new lightsaber crystal lore. It’s such a Star Wars-y concept. They’ve even named them Kyber crystals.

because the inclination against the mystic side of Star Wars is strong among sci-fi nerds

Rather, that the movies never indicate this level of ‘bonding with a living crystal’; Yoda relegates it to the status of Luke’s blaster in being just another distraction from his Jedi training in his test at the tree, and the Emperor casually dismisses it as a ‘Jedi’s weapon’, implying that the Sith wouldn’t use lightsabers at all. Vader presumably only has one because he was formerly a Jedi. The crystal is clearly not bonded too closely to Force users since Han can use Luke’s lightsaber just fine.

Point being, the lightsaber in the OT is merely an elegant weapon from a more civilized age. Giving it a ton of weird mystical baggage actually makes the weapon less elegant in the story, not more.

This, all the way.
Lightsabers are just Star Wars swords. The Jedis do amazing things with them because it’s the Jedis that have mystical powers, not the sword.

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Biggs in ANH edit idea
ROTJ opening edit idea

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All I recall is that deleted ROTJ scene in the cave where Luke is piecing together his green lightsaber.

The Rise of Failures

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ray_afraid said:

DominicCobb said:

creating a lightsaber is part of Jedi training (established in ROTJ)

I don’t remember that. Been awhile though.

I think Vader implies Luke constructing his own lightsaber was an indication that his training was complete.

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Sure I know “your skills are complete”. And yet still Yoda and Palpatine using a saber is a terrible idea.

Your_friendly_Imperial said:
Jedi don’t choke or electrocute people with the force.

Is this another Pigmen being sent to sleep thing

Yub Nub for life

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According to the Disney canon, Kyber crystals are inherently resistant to the dark side of the Force, and dark siders must bend them to their will for them to work in their lightsabers, creating a bleeding effect which is why all dark siders have red lightsabers.

If that’s the case then Anakin’s lightsaber should have stopped working because it would have sensed his turn to the dark side in ROTS, or at least should have turned red due to Anakin’s dark side influence, but no, it keeps functioning as normal when used for very obvious dark side actions like slaughtering children.