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General Star Wars Random Thoughts Thread — Page 430

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 (Edited)

DominicCobb said:

ZkinandBonez said:

fmalover said:

I recently gave the prequel trilogy another try and you know what? My distaste for TFA has rekindled my appreciation of the PT. Now I enjoy, like really enjoy, the PT. Are they objectively bad movies? Hell yes, but I still rate them above TFA. That’s how much I dislike TFA.

I’ve had a similar experience, though for me it has more to do with the lore. Needless to say the PT films aren’t too well made, but I like the distinct world Lucas built for it much more than what we’ve gotten so far in the ST. For me SW is more than just the movies, and so far I’ve had no interest in the ST EU. The Clone Wars era EU on the other hand I’ve found more original and nuanced.

I’ve enjoyed the ST as movies, but the lore has IMO been very bland and boring.

That probably explains a bit why some PT fans hate the ST (and potentially vice versa?). I could give a shit about lore, and I feel like on of the biggest issues of the PT is putting lore and world building in front of effective storytelling. I mean I like SW lore, but in my mind that’s what the EU is for. When I watch a movie, I want a good movie, and in my opinion the ST delivers far above the PT in that regard.

I agree with all of the above, but I personally (like many fans) spend more time with EU material than just the movies. And so far I’ve had more fun with stories originating from the PT than the ST. It just boils down to individual priorities. For some fans the EU is really important and if the new movies don’t serve as platforms for interesting new stories, then those movies just aren’t that interesting to them, regardless of how well they were made.

As a film fan I admire the ST more than the PT, but as a SW fan I lean more towards the PT.

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ZkinandBonez said:

DominicCobb said:

ZkinandBonez said:

fmalover said:

I recently gave the prequel trilogy another try and you know what? My distaste for TFA has rekindled my appreciation of the PT. Now I enjoy, like really enjoy, the PT. Are they objectively bad movies? Hell yes, but I still rate them above TFA. That’s how much I dislike TFA.

I’ve had a similar experience, though for me it has more to do with the lore. Needless to say the PT films aren’t too well made, but I like the distinct world Lucas built for it much more than what we’ve gotten so far in the ST. For me SW is more than just the movies, and so far I’ve had no interest in the ST EU. The Clone Wars era EU on the other hand I’ve found more original and nuanced.

I’ve enjoyed the ST as movies, but the lore has IMO been very bland and boring.

That probably explains a bit why some PT fans hate the ST (and potentially vice versa?). I could give a shit about lore, and I feel like on of the biggest issues of the PT is putting lore and world building in front of effective storytelling. I mean I like SW lore, but in my mind that’s what the EU is for. When I watch a movie, I want a good movie, and in my opinion the ST delivers far above the PT in that regard.

I agree with all of the above, but I personally (like many fans) spend more time with EU material than just the movies. And so far I’ve had more fun with stories originating from the PT than the ST. It just boils down to individual priorities. For some fans the EU is really important and if the new movies don’t serve as platforms for interesting new stories, then those movies just aren’t that interesting to them, regardless of how well they were made.

As a film fan I admire the ST more than the PT, but as a SW fan I lean more towards the PT.

I’m sure we’ll eventually get a decent amount of ST EU material, just seems like it’ll be delayed in comparison.

Hell, we’re getting a whole theme park experience as part of the ST EU, I’d say that’s pretty cool.

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DominicCobb said:

ZkinandBonez said:

DominicCobb said:

ZkinandBonez said:

fmalover said:

I recently gave the prequel trilogy another try and you know what? My distaste for TFA has rekindled my appreciation of the PT. Now I enjoy, like really enjoy, the PT. Are they objectively bad movies? Hell yes, but I still rate them above TFA. That’s how much I dislike TFA.

I’ve had a similar experience, though for me it has more to do with the lore. Needless to say the PT films aren’t too well made, but I like the distinct world Lucas built for it much more than what we’ve gotten so far in the ST. For me SW is more than just the movies, and so far I’ve had no interest in the ST EU. The Clone Wars era EU on the other hand I’ve found more original and nuanced.

I’ve enjoyed the ST as movies, but the lore has IMO been very bland and boring.

That probably explains a bit why some PT fans hate the ST (and potentially vice versa?). I could give a shit about lore, and I feel like on of the biggest issues of the PT is putting lore and world building in front of effective storytelling. I mean I like SW lore, but in my mind that’s what the EU is for. When I watch a movie, I want a good movie, and in my opinion the ST delivers far above the PT in that regard.

I agree with all of the above, but I personally (like many fans) spend more time with EU material than just the movies. And so far I’ve had more fun with stories originating from the PT than the ST. It just boils down to individual priorities. For some fans the EU is really important and if the new movies don’t serve as platforms for interesting new stories, then those movies just aren’t that interesting to them, regardless of how well they were made.

As a film fan I admire the ST more than the PT, but as a SW fan I lean more towards the PT.

I’m sure we’ll eventually get a decent amount of ST EU material, just seems like it’ll be delayed in comparison.

Hell, we’re getting a whole theme park experience as part of the ST EU, I’d say that’s pretty cool.

Sure, thought it’s not really the amount that is bothering me and many other fans, it’s rather that the new lore feels too similar to the OT. The PT, despite giving us awkward dialogue, bad CG, etc, etc. did at the very least give us a completely different conflict between new factions that felt different from the OT. ST material kind of just feel like a “reskin” of the OT rather than something new. Some fans like that, and I get why; “don’t fix what isn’t broken” etc. but for some fans it’s just kind of dull.

The new theme park does seem pretty impressive, and it’ll be fun to see how all of that is going to work out. And I am also quite exited about the Mandalorian TV series, so I do enjoy the new canon overall, I’ve just also gotten a newfound appreciation of the Clone Wars era in general.

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I think on the surface the OT and ST are similar, but given time for the canon to explore that time period (which they have been avoiding as to give as much creative freedom to the filmmakers as possible), these the two era can potentially feel quite distinct.

I think the political situation in the buildup to the war can be grounds for a very compelling story about politics and espionage. The show Resistance does get into that a bit. Spies within the Senate, and unknown threat in uncharted space.

I think this new war has a lot of potential to set itself apart from the Galactic Civil War as well. The Resistance can literally fit on the Falcon, even the Rebellion was better off in its worst condition. How will they recruit help? How will they actually fight the First Order? Will they use even more dirty, guerrilla tactics rather than open battles like the Rebellion did?

The First Order are invaders rather than the de facto government, how will they treat their citizens and the Resistance compared to the Old Empire? Will they be more radical? More aggressive? You also have the dynamic between the old guard and the new, the Imperials vets vs the First Order generation and how they perceive each other.

And for me, one of the most interesting things is the fact that the leaders on both sides are in fact mother and son. The family drama has manifested into a galactic-scale war, even more so than the Galactic Civil War if you think about it. I definitely think it is possible for this conflict to stand out from the OT, but I guess we’ll just have to wait and see how they handle it in IX and further media.

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ZkinandBonez said:

DominicCobb said:

ZkinandBonez said:

DominicCobb said:

ZkinandBonez said:

fmalover said:

I recently gave the prequel trilogy another try and you know what? My distaste for TFA has rekindled my appreciation of the PT. Now I enjoy, like really enjoy, the PT. Are they objectively bad movies? Hell yes, but I still rate them above TFA. That’s how much I dislike TFA.

I’ve had a similar experience, though for me it has more to do with the lore. Needless to say the PT films aren’t too well made, but I like the distinct world Lucas built for it much more than what we’ve gotten so far in the ST. For me SW is more than just the movies, and so far I’ve had no interest in the ST EU. The Clone Wars era EU on the other hand I’ve found more original and nuanced.

I’ve enjoyed the ST as movies, but the lore has IMO been very bland and boring.

That probably explains a bit why some PT fans hate the ST (and potentially vice versa?). I could give a shit about lore, and I feel like on of the biggest issues of the PT is putting lore and world building in front of effective storytelling. I mean I like SW lore, but in my mind that’s what the EU is for. When I watch a movie, I want a good movie, and in my opinion the ST delivers far above the PT in that regard.

I agree with all of the above, but I personally (like many fans) spend more time with EU material than just the movies. And so far I’ve had more fun with stories originating from the PT than the ST. It just boils down to individual priorities. For some fans the EU is really important and if the new movies don’t serve as platforms for interesting new stories, then those movies just aren’t that interesting to them, regardless of how well they were made.

As a film fan I admire the ST more than the PT, but as a SW fan I lean more towards the PT.

I’m sure we’ll eventually get a decent amount of ST EU material, just seems like it’ll be delayed in comparison.

Hell, we’re getting a whole theme park experience as part of the ST EU, I’d say that’s pretty cool.

Sure, thought it’s not really the amount that is bothering me and many other fans, it’s rather that the new lore feels too similar to the OT. The PT, despite giving us awkward dialogue, bad CG, etc, etc. did at the very least give us a completely different conflict between new factions that felt different from the OT. ST material kind of just feel like a “reskin” of the OT rather than something new. Some fans like that, and I get why; “don’t fix what isn’t broken” etc. but for some fans it’s just kind of dull.

Well it really is about the amount though. That feeling you have is because the ST is so light on lore in the movies in comparison to the PT. The conflict is distinctly different from the OT in ways that become increasingly more apparent with each new bit of canon that’s released - with the problem being of course that there’s not much out there. For example, there’s what, two ST era novels that exist? Phasma and Bloodline? Neither are like anything else SW I’ve read, and I’d argue Bloodline especially reveals a lot of interesting information and could go toe to toe with any of the PT novels I’ve read, quality-wise. Perhaps if you only watch the movies you’d think things are too similar to the OT, but if you read that for example (or watched Resistance even), the differences would be much clearer.

The new theme park does seem pretty impressive, and it’ll be fun to see how all of that is going to work out. And I am also quite exited about the Mandalorian TV series, so I do enjoy the new canon overall, I’ve just also gotten a newfound appreciation of the Clone Wars era in general.

Well I’m fairness I don’t believe The Mandolorian would qualify as ST era.

As for newfound appreciation for the CW, I try to sympathize but I don’t know if I can. The whole conflict that GL set up has so many stupid aspects to it that are only really “fixed” with the help of various EU content (if even that) that my feelings are just a little complex. Personally I enjoy that the ST era doesn’t have the baggage of less than stellar movies to work with and am excited on the EU front to see where they take things, especially because the films themselves don’t explain too much.

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RogueLeader said:

I think on the surface the OT and ST are similar, but given time for the canon to explore that time period (which they have been avoiding as to give as much creative freedom to the filmmakers as possible), these the two era can potentially feel quite distinct.

I think the political situation in the buildup to the war can be grounds for a very compelling story about politics and espionage. The show Resistance does get into that a bit. Spies within the Senate, and unknown threat in uncharted space.

Check out Bloodline and the Poe Dameron comic if you haven’t already.

I think this new war has a lot of potential to set itself apart from the Galactic Civil War as well. The Resistance can literally fit on the Falcon, even the Rebellion was better off in its worst condition. How will they recruit help? How will they actually fight the First Order? Will they use even more dirty, guerrilla tactics rather than open battles like the Rebellion did?

The First Order are invaders rather than the de facto government, how will they treat their citizens and the Resistance compared to the Old Empire? Will they be more radical? More aggressive? You also have the dynamic between the old guard and the new, the Imperials vets vs the First Order generation and how they perceive each other.

One of the reasons I’m becoming more invested in Resistance is they have characters dealing with FO occupation and not all of them think it’s such a bad thing. It’s exactly the sort of complexity I’d want from this era, answering the essential question, how could another empire rise to prominence? Because not everyone thinks they’re the bad guys, or fully understands their severity.

And for me, one of the most interesting things is the fact that the leaders on both sides are in fact mother and son. The family drama has manifested into a galactic-scale war, even more so than the Galactic Civil War if you think about it. I definitely think it is possible for this conflict to stand out from the OT, but I guess we’ll just have to wait and see how they handle it in IX and further media.

This is a great observation but it pains me. In my mind it’s very hard to imagine that the Leia/Ben dynamic wasn’t envisioned as a cornerstone of IX. And I’m sure there’ll be elements of that in the finished product, but unfortunately I doubt there’ll be much Carrie material to work with in that regard.

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RogueLeader said:

I think on the surface the OT and ST are similar, but given time for the canon to explore that time period (which they have been avoiding as to give as much creative freedom to the filmmakers as possible), these the two era can potentially feel quite distinct.

I think the political situation in the buildup to the war can be grounds for a very compelling story about politics and espionage. The show Resistance does get into that a bit. Spies within the Senate, and unknown threat in uncharted space.

I think this new war has a lot of potential to set itself apart from the Galactic Civil War as well. The Resistance can literally fit on the Falcon, even the Rebellion was better off in its worst condition. How will they recruit help? How will they actually fight the First Order? Will they use even more dirty, guerrilla tactics rather than open battles like the Rebellion did?

The First Order are invaders rather than the de facto government, how will they treat their citizens and the Resistance compared to the Old Empire? Will they be more radical? More aggressive? You also have the dynamic between the old guard and the new, the Imperials vets vs the First Order generation and how they perceive each other.

And for me, one of the most interesting things is the fact that the leaders on both sides are in fact mother and son. The family drama has manifested into a galactic-scale war, even more so than the Galactic Civil War if you think about it. I definitely think it is possible for this conflict to stand out from the OT, but I guess we’ll just have to wait and see how they handle it in IX and further media.

You make some great points. And I’ll probably soften up to the ST era EU in the future as they start to explore it in more detail and take more risks with the lore.

I am quite curious about what they’re planning to add in the thirty years between the OT and the ST.

DominicCobb said:

Well I’m fairness I don’t believe The Mandolorian would qualify as ST era.

True, but I feel like it’s going to “set-up” the First Order and other ST-lore at least in some ways.

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ZkinandBonez said:

DominicCobb said:

Well I’m fairness I don’t believe The Mandolorian would qualify as ST era.

True, but I feel like it’s going to “set-up” the First Order and other ST-lore at least in some ways.

This is a cool thing about the Mandalorian. I’ve heard a lot of people say it would’ve been cool if the First Order had been like anti-rebels, with limited equipment and resources. That would be cool to see. Something like a scrappy Imperial Remnant, and I think we could still get that in the Mandalorian, and stories like it that are set in this time period.

While the official Galactic Empire surrendered and the war is technically over, there could be a few straggling warlords holding onto control of a handful of far flung star systems. It seems the titular character in the Mandalorian will run into some kind of Imperial faction. Their exact identity is still a bit of a mystery, but this is what I’m hoping for. According the new canon the Empire was officially defeated one year after the Battle of Endor, but according to Jon Favreau this is a few years after that (like 2-3?), so that means the Empire still exists in some form (possibly as the proto-First Order or some other remnant faction like I mentioned earlier).

It could be reminiscent to the old EU, but these Imperial Remnants are more concerned with maintaining control over what little power they have left, rather than trying to take on the New Republic constantly. You could even have a new series like the Rogue Squadron novels that are about small New Republic units trying to liberate handfuls of systems from Imperial control.

I think it would be a nice middle ground between the old EU and the new canon. And if most of the Remnants they have dealt with over the years had been very minor threats on the galactic scale, it would help explain why they didn’t immediately perceive the First Order as a threat, thinking it was just another warlord faction barely surviving on the edge of known space.

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RogueLeader said:

ZkinandBonez said:

DominicCobb said:

Well I’m fairness I don’t believe The Mandolorian would qualify as ST era.

True, but I feel like it’s going to “set-up” the First Order and other ST-lore at least in some ways.

This is a cool thing about the Mandalorian. I’ve heard a lot of people say it would’ve been cool if the First Order had been like anti-rebels, with limited equipment and resources. That would be cool to see. Something like a scrappy Imperial Remnant, and I think we could still get that in the Mandalorian, and stories like it that are set in this time period.

While the official Galactic Empire surrendered and the war is technically over, there could be a few straggling warlords holding onto control of a handful of far flung star systems. It seems the titular character in the Mandalorian will run into some kind of Imperial faction. Their exact identity is still a bit of a mystery, but this is what I’m hoping for. According the new canon the Empire was officially defeated one year after the Battle of Endor, but according to Jon Favreau this is a few years after that (like 2-3?), so that means the Empire still exists in some form (possibly as the proto-First Order or some other remnant faction like I mentioned earlier).

It could be reminiscent to the old EU, but these Imperial Remnants are more concerned with maintaining control over what little power they have left, rather than trying to take on the New Republic constantly. You could even have a new series like the Rogue Squadron novels that are about small New Republic units trying to liberate handfuls of systems from Imperial control.

I think it would be a nice middle ground between the old EU and the new canon. And if most of the Remnants they have dealt with over the years had been very minor threats on the galactic scale, it would help explain why they didn’t immediately perceive the First Order as a threat, thinking it was just another warlord faction barely surviving on the edge of known space.

This is exactly what I’ve been hoping for as well.

I’m a big fan of the post-Endor/Imperial-Remnant era in Legends, so it’d be really interesting if something similar were to show up in an actual SW TV show.

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Everyone on the Second Death Star that didn’t escape was likely burnt to death by the rushing flames before the station blew up.

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That mental image will no doubt crop up the next time I watch the movie. The descriptions of death in the Star Wars novelization creeped me out as a kid.

That does bring up a question. Did the Rebels allow fleeing Imperials to escape? Or was there too much chaos going on to bother chasing them? Did Luke have any trouble getting back to Endor in what was probably Palpatine’s ride?

No! Don’t shoot! I’m General Skywalker!

Go on! Pull the other one!

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SilverWook said:

That mental image will no doubt crop up the next time I watch the movie. The descriptions of death in the Star Wars novelization creeped me out as a kid.

That does bring up a question. Did the Rebels allow fleeing Imperials to escape? Or was there too much chaos going on to bother chasing them? Did Luke have any trouble getting back to Endor in what was probably Palpatine’s ride?

No! Don’t shoot! I’m General Skywalker!

Go on! Pull the other one!

I can’t imagine the Rebels would have gone after anyone lucky enough to escape the DS2, especially if they just waited while the Imperial fleet scampered off.

DuracellEnergizer: “^He’s embraced the absurd. Don’t expect to gain any conventional understanding from his posts.”
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Did the fleet scamper off? The movie doesn’t make that clear. We saw at least one regular Star Destroyer blow up. I imagine the kamikaze maneuver on the Super Star Destroyer might have inspired some other desperate or wounded pilots to do the same.

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SilverWook said:

Did the fleet scamper off? The movie doesn’t make that clear. We saw at least one regular Star Destroyer blow up. I imagine the kamikaze maneuver on the Super Star Destroyer might have inspired some other desperate or wounded pilots to do the same.

If I remember correctly, multiple Star Destroyers were significantly damaged by debris. I’m sure there could be a few that remain functional. Also, I doubt that was the entire First Order fleet. It’s a common military strategy to not have all your ships in one place and I’m sure the First Order has multiple endeavors.

I’m curious to how the new legend of Luke Skywalker will fair at bringing support to what’s left of the diminutive Resistance.

What are exactly Kylo’s goals going forward? I’m sure he wants to pursue Rey, but does he really want to rule the galaxy?

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As this is ROTJ we’re talking about, what is this First Order you speak of? 😉

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SilverWook said:

As this is ROTJ we’re talking about, what is this First Order you speak of? 😉

Sorry, I saw kamikaze and thought Holdo.

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No problem. This guy did it first. 😃

It happens so fast, that on early viewings I thought the pilot had lost control of his A-Wing. Pretty dark for a movie with alien teddy bears in it.

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If that had happened in any part of the saga not the OT, it would have received countless hate.

I for one think it makes no sense why the rebels don’t try that more often… especially with droids.

Maul- A Star Wars Story

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SilverWook said:

No problem. This guy did it first. 😃

It happens so fast, that on early viewings I thought the pilot had lost control of his A-Wing. Pretty dark for a movie with alien teddy bears in it.

I still think he lost control.

OutboundFlight said:

I for one think it makes no sense why the rebels don’t try that more often… especially with droids.

Presumably missiles are more effective and less costly.

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I always figured he had lost control or at least knew he was going down and used what he had left to take down the destroyer.

TV’s Frink said:

I would put this in my sig if I weren’t so lazy.

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Yeah the shot right before that is his A-wing spinning out of control along the SSD hull with laser fire all over the place and an x-wing right behind him that gets blown to smithereens. I think it’s pretty well implied his A-wing has been shot down and (at most) he’s just doing his best to make it count for something. I think an argument could also easily be made that he was totally out of control at that point and it was just blind luck (or the force…) that he happens to crash directly into the bridge. But whether he has any steering control or not, if you watch the scene I think it’s pretty obvious he’s crashing because he’s been shot down, not because he made a conscious choice to be a kamikaze.

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A flaming engine would have made it less ambiguous. Or some sparks flying in the cockpit, which would instantly read something is wrong with the A-Wing.

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