General Star Wars Random Thoughts Thread — Page 331

Lord Haseo said:
something integral to the character from her conception. There is no evidence to support our theories on how exactly Rey was written so for me all that matters is that her competency is explained and for the most part it is.

How can being able to do anything and everything whenever the plot calls for it be an integral part of someone’s character?

Now you know where the criticism comes from. She can do this thing. She can do that totally unrelated thing. She can do EVERYTHING! One of those skills or a subset of those skills might enhance her characterization (not her character), but when someone can do everything, and the audience reacts with amazement–OMG, is there anything this Rey can’t do!?–suddenly you have a very poorly designed protagonist and story.

Alderaan said:

Lord Haseo said:
something integral to the character from her conception. There is no evidence to support our theories on how exactly Rey was written so for me all that matters is that her competency is explained and for the most part it is.

How can being able to do anything and everything whenever the plot calls for it be an integral part of someone’s character?

Now you know where the criticism comes from. She can do this thing. She can do that totally unrelated thing. She can do EVERYTHING! One of those skills or a subset of those skills might enhance her characterization (not her character), but when someone can do everything, and the audience reacts with amazement–OMG, is there anything this Rey can’t do!?–suddenly you have a very poorly designed protagonist and story.

My point was if she was written to be a competent character from the jump of course there would be explanations as to why she’s so competent in the film. A big part of why she’s so competent is that she struggled since she was a child so the YEARS of experience with scavenging and assembling machinery, flying and fighting with her staff all culminated in the competent young lady we see in TFA. How exactly can you fault someone for adapting to their surroundings?

Surroundings that were forced upon her no less…

Rey being able to understand droids and wookiees is not a plot convenience, in fact it barely even affects the plot. It’s character building. It doesn’t require an explanation (and one is not given in the film), really the opposite. It tells us about who she is.

DominicCobb said:
It tells us about who she is.

Yes, it tells us that she can do anything. Whatever the situation, whatever the task, there is nothing Rey cannot do.

And that’s where the criticism comes from.

I don’t know why I bothered.

Well you should probably learn the difference between character and characterization before you try and convince people that a bunch of random, convenient traits, were essential to understanding who Rey is.

Alderaan said:

Well you should probably learn the difference between character and characterization before you try and convince people that a bunch of random, convenient traits, were essential to understanding who Rey is.

Oh fuck off. You should try thinking a little harder. As I said there is nothing convenient about her understanding of multiple languages. What it does is show that Rey is someone who’s spent a lot of time learning about a lot of different things. But you can’t seem to understand that so I don’t know why I keep trying to explain.

DominicCobb said:

Oh fuck off.

See this is the problem with you. Haseo and I, and then later you and Tobar, were engaging in a discussion. When you didn’t like someone’s reply, you made an ass of yourself with your comment. Which was particularly funny, because you clearly don’t even understand the terms you are using. I wouldn’t have pointed it out and embarrassed you if you hadn’t been an asshole in the first place, though.

DominicCobb said:
You should try thinking a little harder. As I said there is nothing convenient about her understanding of multiple languages. What it does is show that Rey is someone who’s spent a lot of time learning about a lot of different things.

Apparently she learned everything. Thank you for clearing that up for us Sherlock, I guess we can all move along now.

I wasn’t embarassed by anything because if I had been that would imply I was wrong and you were right. The fact that you think you know more about good filmmaking than any and everyone here would be funny if it weren’t so sad.

The “fuck off” was in regards to the persistently annoying fact that you can’t get two posts into an argument without being a pompous dick. I have no problem having a reasonable debate with someone on this topic and I’ve done it many times before but it’s hard when you’re such an asshole about it.

DominicCobb said:
The “fuck off” was in regards to the persistently annoying fact that you can’t get two posts into an argument without being a pompous dick.

You know Haseo and I don’t exactly see things the same 90% of the time, right? And yet we managed to civilly engage each other for a few posts. Seems like the problem is you, not me.

DominicCobb said:
I wasn’t embarassed by anything because if I had been that would imply I was wrong and you were right. The fact that you think you know more about good filmmaking than any and everyone here would be funny if it weren’t so sad.

I don’t know anything or everything and I never claimed I did. I’m not Rey, after all. 😉

Alderaan said:

DominicCobb said:
The “fuck off” was in regards to the persistently annoying fact that you can’t get two posts into an argument without being a pompous dick.

You know Haseo and I don’t exactly see things the same 90% of the time, right? And yet we managed to civilly engage each other for a few posts. Seems like the problem is you, not me.

Either you were being more of a dick to me than Haseo or I just wasn’t prepared to put up with your shit. Too lazy to look back and see which, but believe it or not I do not tell everyone I disagree with to fuck off.

DominicCobb said:
I wasn’t embarassed by anything because if I had been that would imply I was wrong and you were right. The fact that you think you know more about good filmmaking than any and everyone here would be funny if it weren’t so sad.

I don’t know anything or everything and I never claimed I did. I’m not Rey, after all. 😉

Well if you don’t then it shouldn’t be hard to stop acting like it I guess.

SilverWook said:

Alderaan, you really bring out the worst in people. Now everyone kindly stop pushing each other’s buttons.

Not really, it’s only the same four or five posters. One of them is Haseo, and hey look, we were briefly getting along.

darthrush said:

When it comes to the issue of Rey being a Mary Sue, I must say that there is a lot of truth to that statement. I like the Force Awakens a lot but this is one of the films biggest issues for me. And Max Landis pointed out something important to this discussion which is that when criticizing the fact that Rey is a Mary Sue, responding with in-universe explanations as to why she is able to do these things does not help your case. Because the issue is not that it doesn’t make sense within the context of the universe. The issue is the direction that the writers decided to take the character. Could you explain away how Rey beat Kylo? Kind of. But that doesn’t matter because from a writing perspective, it is not smart to have your antagonist be beaten in the first film of a trilogy by a newcomer who just tried out a light saber for the first time. Not to mention how she understands the falcon better than Han (that was just ludicrous), learns a Jedi mind trick on the spot, defeats Kylo in both mental and physical battles etc. Rey simply isn’t written as a character with enough trials and weaknesses to overcome. This is why I am slightly nervous for episode 8. I just do not see much growth for Rey from this point onward.

+1

Although, I still don’t necessarily like the term Mary Sue.

Perhaps we should coin a gender neutral term to replace it once and for all.

I nominate “Cary Lou”.

I think all you “Rey is a Mary Sue” or “has many Mary Sue-like traits” are totally misunderstanding the writers’ intent with the character.

Yes, she does a LOT of amazing, seemingly impossible or unbelievable things. So much so that even she herself is astonished at what she accomplishes. All of this points to the idea that she is apparently MUCH more than she initially appears to be. There is a huge mystery to her background and all of these amazing feats and traits are clues to what that background might be.

There are other clues, like when Kylo Ren force-pulls the officer halfway across the room to ask, “what GIRL?!” (Which implies he might have some knowledge of who she is). Or the almost ashamed look on Han’s face when she comments about all the green (this may not be a clue, but for now I believe it IS a clue that Han knows more about her than he lets on)

Ultimately it will be up to the next two installments to make the mystery pay off, so time will tell if the writers did a good job. But as far as TFA is concerned, she’s NOT a Mary Sue. She’s a mystery and her amazing powers are clues to the answer.

If we could move these discussions elsewhere, such as

http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/EP7-Spoilers-Why-I-dont-think-Rey-is-a-Merry-Sue/id/47543/page/1

or

http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/The-Force-Awakens-Official-Review-Thread-SPOILERS/id/46786

I would appreciate it.

Fuck you guys.

❤️

Tobar said:

You could make arguments for her understanding droid not merely being a plot convenience but her understanding Wookiee certainly is.

She’s on a hot desert planet in the middle of nowhere. I doubt there’s a colony of Wookiees somewhere off screen on Jakku. There’s no reason whatsoever for her to have learned that.

I don’t really need to see Rey interacting with Wookies or even see one in the film to buy her being able to speak their language just like I don’t need to see Luke flying to buy him being able to fly in the Battle of Yavin. Just because STAR WARS has more lines in regards to Luke flying doesn’t dismiss the one line mentioned about Rey being able to understand that ‘thing’ in The Force Awakens.

The transitional form between a Wookiee and Ewok. 😛