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GOUT Technicolor regrade (single pass) (* unfinished project * - lots of info) — Page 4

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DrDre said:

hairy_hen said:

Hmm . . . the sunset scene still doesn’t look like the prints. I didn’t think it would; apparently too much blue/purple has been added for a single correction to get it back. The only other problem shot I see is the first shot of Artoo in the canyon being excessively red, but it’s like that in the GOUT already. The rest of the movie looks fantastic with the adjustments.

Well, we actually don’t know exactly what it looks like for a projected print, but it’s really close to the the Senator print photo, which is a bit brighter, but also purple:

The R2-D2 canyon scene actually is excessively red for the technicolor print scans we have, and the -1 LPP as well.

Whew!! You saved me Dr. Dre I thought I was gonna have to pay Hairy_hen a million dollars.

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Honestly, my main takeaway from this thread is nostalgia for the original GOUT colors. The regrade looks great too, but that washed out low-contrast look does my VHS generation heart good.

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joefavs said:

Honestly, my main takeaway from this thread is nostalgia for the original GOUT colors. The regrade looks great too, but that washed out low-contrast look does my VHS generation heart good.

The team blu uprez is still a great version to watch isn’t it!?

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 (Edited)

Looks great Dre…As long as the Milk is still Blue.

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Dreamaster said:

The team blu uprez is still a great version to watch isn’t it!?

Oh, absolutely. If they’d finished the other two it would be my preferred version, but I’m not wild about mixing and matching in a marathon.

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 (Edited)

Having seen the regrade in motion, I’m not satisfied with it. There are issues with the saturation, and the colors look washed out. As such, I decided to correct my regrade with Mike V’s well known Leia shot:

Mike V:

GOUT:

GOUT regraded:

Rather than post a bunch of images, I will go straight to video sample, as it always looks different in motion compared to stills. One thing I did notice, that with the Mike V correction we have the return of Luke’s blue lightsaber:

Also, in keeping with the hypothesis, that the GOUT correctly represents the color relations, the regrade is an almost exact match with MIke V’s color grade for one of the Mos Eisley shots again using a single LUT:

Mike V:

GOUT:

GOUT regarded:

To be continued…

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Everything’s looking great DrDre.

I also find it funny how the GOUT colors are giving me a sense of nostalgia lol. Anybody ever try color matching Despecialized to GOUT? We’d have a kind of home video/nostalgia graded version.

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 (Edited)

Swazzy said:

If you were to do a gamma correction from Verta’s grading of that shot to your own, could you then technically get essentially a perfect match of Legacy’s color treatment? (Or at least, whatever revision of it there was at the time of that screenshot)

Well, I don’t believe it’s coincidence, that by matching the Leia shot I got such a close color match for the Mos Eisley shot (and it’s not the only one). Mike V based his color grading on color accurate photos he took of a projected technicolor print among other things. Since I think the GOUT contains the original color relationships of the color graded interpositive, I believe this regrade will be a very good approximation of Legacy’s color treatment at the time.

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Looks even better than Mike’s to me! Keep it up Dre!

-G

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 (Edited)

A video sample for reel 1 of Star Wars is in preperation. Here’s a few examples of how it will look:

GOUT:

GOUT regraded:

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Dre, is there anyway to quickly/easily apply these colours to the Bluray? Maybe using your color matching tool? OR does the bluray require shot-by-shot?

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Stotchy said:

Dre, is there anyway to quickly/easily apply these colours to the Bluray? Maybe using your color matching tool? OR does the bluray require shot-by-shot?

Sadly, the bluray would require a shot by shot correction. The master for the bluray is based on a scan of the negative, which has no color information information about the original color timing, whereas the master for the GOUT was based on the original color timed interpositive, which I postulate has all the original color relations, such that the original color timing (or a very close approximation to it) can be retrieved.

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If I’m not mistaken, if the Bluray were GOUT synced, one could apply these colors easily, right?

What’s the internal temperature of a TaunTaun? Luke warm.

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 (Edited)

Mavimao said:

If I’m not mistaken, if the Bluray were GOUT synced, one could apply these colors easily, right?

No, it’s not a matter of being sync’d. The GOUT appears to have had a single color correction applied to it, which allows us to apply a single LUT to correct the whole film. For example, if the GOUT is 10 points too red, it is 10 points too red on every frame, therefore we can apply a universal correction to reduce the red by 10 points and the whole film will look better.

On the blu-ray, the colors are all over the place, so this sort of universal correction will only improve some of the shots, while making others look worse. While the whole blu-ray can be greatly improved with a single LUT (as JawsTDS proves here http://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/1042832, it would not be possible to match the colors of all the shots in a single pass).

http://www.thestarwarstrilogy.com

http://www.the007dossier.com

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Williarob said:

Mavimao said:

If I’m not mistaken, if the Bluray were GOUT synced, one could apply these colors easily, right?

No, it’s not a matter of being sync’d. The GOUT appears to have had a single color correction applied to it, which allows us to apply a single LUT to correct the whole film. For example, if the GOUT is 10 points too red, it is 10 points too red on every frame, therefore we can apply a universal correction to reduce the red by 10 points and the whole film will look better.

On the blu-ray, the colors are all over the place, so this sort of universal correction will only improve some of the shots, while making others look worse. While the whole blu-ray can be greatly improved with a single LUT (as JawsTDS proves here http://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/1042832, it would not be possible to match the colors of all the shots in a single pass).

No, I get that. What I’m saying is that I thought that Dr Dre was going to do a one pass LUT with the GOUT and THEN export a shot by shot LUT. With this shot by shot LUT, you can take any GOUT synced video file and have it come out like the technicolor.

What’s the internal temperature of a TaunTaun? Luke warm.

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 (Edited)

UnitéD2 said:

There are differents “interpretations” of the technicolor look with Neverar’s correction and regrades based on Dr Dre’s previous samples of the corrected GOUT (in your last posts, the grading is intended to be more natural, right ?) : http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/199660/picture:0

It’s not so much a matter of being more natural. Despite using very different approaches, both NeverarGreat and I are more or less working towards the same end, namely to approximate the look and feel of a technicolor print. For myself an ulterior motive is to determine which colors are “correct”. For example, there have been debates on whether the Leia/R2-D2 hallway should be green. My GOUT regrade again points to the fact that it should be green (at least for the technicolor print), although it’s not as “offensive” as some feared, it would be. It looks quite natural to me, to be honest. In fact looking at this regrade, my conclusion is, that the panels in the front are just a different color from the ones in the back, namely green. In any case, like NeverarGreat I use multiple sources to do my correction, but I do not use the technicolor references provided by Mike Verta, as I feel the scan (delibirately) does not reflect the proper color relations between scenes, because the settings for the scan were altered, possibly on a scene by scene basis, to maximize detail retrieval. As a consequence, I do not believe the Tatooine scenes should be as yellow or desaturated as the Mike Verta scans make them out to be, which I argued as early as my automated correction of the -1 LPP. This is another aspect of the color timing, that the GOUT regrade “confirms”, assuming my hypothesis is accurate.

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Mavimao said:

Williarob said:

Mavimao said:

If I’m not mistaken, if the Bluray were GOUT synced, one could apply these colors easily, right?

No, it’s not a matter of being sync’d. The GOUT appears to have had a single color correction applied to it, which allows us to apply a single LUT to correct the whole film. For example, if the GOUT is 10 points too red, it is 10 points too red on every frame, therefore we can apply a universal correction to reduce the red by 10 points and the whole film will look better.

On the blu-ray, the colors are all over the place, so this sort of universal correction will only improve some of the shots, while making others look worse. While the whole blu-ray can be greatly improved with a single LUT (as JawsTDS proves here http://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/1042832, it would not be possible to match the colors of all the shots in a single pass).

No, I get that. What I’m saying is that I thought that Dr Dre was going to do a one pass LUT with the GOUT and THEN export a shot by shot LUT. With this shot by shot LUT, you can take any GOUT synced video file and have it come out like the technicolor.

Yes, that would certainly be possible, but you would also have to contend with many of the color issues (missing gradients, and is some cases missing colors), that NeverarGreat has tackled for his bluray regrade.

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DrDre said:

Mavimao said:

Williarob said:

Mavimao said:

If I’m not mistaken, if the Bluray were GOUT synced, one could apply these colors easily, right?

No, it’s not a matter of being sync’d. The GOUT appears to have had a single color correction applied to it, which allows us to apply a single LUT to correct the whole film. For example, if the GOUT is 10 points too red, it is 10 points too red on every frame, therefore we can apply a universal correction to reduce the red by 10 points and the whole film will look better.

On the blu-ray, the colors are all over the place, so this sort of universal correction will only improve some of the shots, while making others look worse. While the whole blu-ray can be greatly improved with a single LUT (as JawsTDS proves here http://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/1042832, it would not be possible to match the colors of all the shots in a single pass).

No, I get that. What I’m saying is that I thought that Dr Dre was going to do a one pass LUT with the GOUT and THEN export a shot by shot LUT. With this shot by shot LUT, you can take any GOUT synced video file and have it come out like the technicolor.

Yes, that would certainly be possible, but you would also have to contend with many of the color issues (missing gradients, and is some cases missing colors), that NeverarGreat has tackled for his bluray regrade.

Right, gotcha. So your shot by shot LUT would work best on neutral scans so to speak?

What’s the internal temperature of a TaunTaun? Luke warm.

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Mavimao said:

DrDre said:

Mavimao said:

Williarob said:

Mavimao said:

If I’m not mistaken, if the Bluray were GOUT synced, one could apply these colors easily, right?

No, it’s not a matter of being sync’d. The GOUT appears to have had a single color correction applied to it, which allows us to apply a single LUT to correct the whole film. For example, if the GOUT is 10 points too red, it is 10 points too red on every frame, therefore we can apply a universal correction to reduce the red by 10 points and the whole film will look better.

On the blu-ray, the colors are all over the place, so this sort of universal correction will only improve some of the shots, while making others look worse. While the whole blu-ray can be greatly improved with a single LUT (as JawsTDS proves here http://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/1042832, it would not be possible to match the colors of all the shots in a single pass).

No, I get that. What I’m saying is that I thought that Dr Dre was going to do a one pass LUT with the GOUT and THEN export a shot by shot LUT. With this shot by shot LUT, you can take any GOUT synced video file and have it come out like the technicolor.

Yes, that would certainly be possible, but you would also have to contend with many of the color issues (missing gradients, and is some cases missing colors), that NeverarGreat has tackled for his bluray regrade.

Right, gotcha. So your shot by shot LUT would work best on neutral scans so to speak?

As they say: garbage in is garbage out. The bluray is a big challenge due to the many issues with the bluray color grading. It’s no wonder NeverarGreat’s regrade is many years in the making. I suspect he would have been finished with it much earlier, if he didn’t have to fight an uphill battle.

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I’ve worked on the blu-ray. It is garbage. Though so far I’ve only need to create a layer from a different version for one thing - the four shots of the flowers when Luke, Owen, and Beru are eating. The yellow is completely missing and the plants themselves are blue. I’m not happy with how they turned out so I may have another go at it. But some of the shots are absolutely horrible and very difficult to bring back. Other shots are really easy. My starting point has always been a universal correction that fixes the most shots and then individual corrections for the rest. It results in a lot of corrected shots. But since DrDre and I seem to have had the same idea at about the same time of correcting the GOUT to the technicolor samples, I am planning on retackling my work again. I hadn’t yet gotten to TESB and ROTJ blu-rays other than the base pass so only ANH will require reworking, and hopefully only to realign the work I’ve already done rather than completely redo it.

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DrDre said:

Mavimao said:

DrDre said:

Mavimao said:

Williarob said:

Mavimao said:

If I’m not mistaken, if the Bluray were GOUT synced, one could apply these colors easily, right?

No, it’s not a matter of being sync’d. The GOUT appears to have had a single color correction applied to it, which allows us to apply a single LUT to correct the whole film. For example, if the GOUT is 10 points too red, it is 10 points too red on every frame, therefore we can apply a universal correction to reduce the red by 10 points and the whole film will look better.

On the blu-ray, the colors are all over the place, so this sort of universal correction will only improve some of the shots, while making others look worse. While the whole blu-ray can be greatly improved with a single LUT (as JawsTDS proves here http://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/1042832, it would not be possible to match the colors of all the shots in a single pass).

No, I get that. What I’m saying is that I thought that Dr Dre was going to do a one pass LUT with the GOUT and THEN export a shot by shot LUT. With this shot by shot LUT, you can take any GOUT synced video file and have it come out like the technicolor.

Yes, that would certainly be possible, but you would also have to contend with many of the color issues (missing gradients, and is some cases missing colors), that NeverarGreat has tackled for his bluray regrade.

Right, gotcha. So your shot by shot LUT would work best on neutral scans so to speak?

As they say: garbage in is garbage out. The bluray is a big challenge due to the many issues with the bluray color grading. It’s no wonder NeverarGreat’s regrade is many years in the making. I suspect he would have been finished with it much earlier, if he didn’t have to fight an uphill battle.

Yeah, there is no easy way to fix the Blu-ray except for shot by shot. I tried for over a year to create a single LUT for the entire film, but once you account for every problematic color shift, the colors start to lose their natural variation and tend towards a few ‘safe’ gradients.

What a grand and intoxicating innocence. How could you be so naive? There is no escape. Come, lay down your weapons. It is not too late for my mercy.
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The Force Awakens Restructured (V3 Released!) and The Starlight Project (WORKPRINT RELEASED!)

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Oh my. I tried to apply my version of this to the SE broadcast. Much harder to achieve and it does not come out even across the film. Reels 1 and 3 seem very yellow and reels 4-6 seem very blue. I settled for getting a few key scenes to match. Whatever weird color grading they used, it is probably a good thing that they didn’t scan the movie using those settings. The BR is closer to the original than the SE is.

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 (Edited)

I’ve updated the regrade to better reflect the look of a technicolor print:

GOUT:

GOUT regraded: