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Fullscreen Laserdisc / DVD Preservation — Page 7

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yes indeed Spider-Man is apparently the true open matte version on the full screen dvd but I’ve heard that Spider-Man 2 is not exactly open matte the whole frame is not shown rather a mix of the top and bottom showing more of the image but the sides cropped a bit, it would be the closest to open matte however, speaking of marvel movies you may be interested in Hulk (2003) in full screen I’ve heard you can see boom mikes lol how could you tell if a dvd is open matte anyway, im a little fuzzy on that aspect ?

“I will call this one BOHIJ”
-Chris O’Neil

“Heh Funnie Scream”
-The Boys From Oneyplays

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skoal said:
Spider-man 1 & 2 are best watched full screen, Spider-man 3 would be too, but no full screen version exists.

Any comparison shots or links?

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I did some research and according to IMDB

X-Men aspect ratio - 2.35 : 1
X2 X-Men United aspect ratio - 2.35 : 1 (Cinematographic Process Super 35)
X-Men The Last Stand aspect ratio - 2.35 : 1
Mars Attacks aspect ratio - 2.35 : 1
Austin Powers Goldmember aspect ratio - 2.35 : 1 (Cinematographic Process Super 35)

Hope it helps from this information I would assume that the only ones that could be open matte would be X-Men 1 and Austin Powers

“I will call this one BOHIJ”
-Chris O’Neil

“Heh Funnie Scream”
-The Boys From Oneyplays

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Jp4195 said:

I did some research and according to IMDB

X-Men aspect ratio - 2.35 : 1
X2 X-Men United aspect ratio - 2.35 : 1 (Cinematographic Process Super 35)
X-Men The Last Stand aspect ratio - 2.35 : 1
Mars Attacks aspect ratio - 2.35 : 1
Austin Powers Goldmember aspect ratio - 2.35 : 1 (Cinematographic Process Super 35)

Hope it helps from this information I would assume that the only ones that could be open matte would be X-Men 1 and Austin Powers

I think 300 might be partially opened, A Beautiful Mind might be open-matte, and I really would like to know about the X-Men trilogy.

You can see the 2.35:1 AR means anything opened up might be a plus.

Open-matte is a loose term and I prefer indicating if the frame is partially opened as opposed to fully opened. and I think S35 films are more likely to be partially opened.

I don’t have Spider-man screenshots, however, for collectors, the DVDs originally came with slipcovers. =)

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SilverWook said:

As a side note, I was flipping channels on Saturday, and FX was showing Spiderman 2 in 4:3 full frame. Very strange.

Did you record it?

Ol’ George has the GOUT, I see.

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I don’t have anything capable of recording these newfangled digital tv signals. 😉

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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I have Spider-Man (2000) on original VCD and it is open matte with the VFX shots pan and scanned. Spider-Man 2 is partially open matte as well, on DVD, but I don’t have either of them. I saw it on cable, I think. And I cannot record it either. Don’t have such equipment.

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is the full screen dvd for spider-man open matte also, id like to get it

“I will call this one BOHIJ”
-Chris O’Neil

“Heh Funnie Scream”
-The Boys From Oneyplays

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funny you mention this, it seems that many movies are shown open matte on tv channels I know for sure show some open matte movies are

AMC
FX
FXM
BBC America
SYFY

I noticed if it says “this film has been modified from its original version, it has been formatted to fit this screen” theirs a good chance of it being open matte

I know someone asked about x-men fx showed the last stand and its on demand on fx too and it displays this message

“I will call this one BOHIJ”
-Chris O’Neil

“Heh Funnie Scream”
-The Boys From Oneyplays

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X-Men (2000) would presumably be all pan-and-scan as it was shot anamorphically.

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EJones216 said:

X-Men (2000) would presumably be all pan-and-scan as it was shot anamorphically.

Was it? What is your source? IMDB is not reliable.

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I know IMDB isn’t the best but I also checked Blu-ray.com and the original aspect ratio matches what is on IMDB and I assume the specs on Blu-ray.com are taken from the actual release so idk

“I will call this one BOHIJ”
-Chris O’Neil

“Heh Funnie Scream”
-The Boys From Oneyplays

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 (Edited)

IMDb isn’t the most reliable, but American Cinematographer normally is. https://www.theasc.com/magazine/april03/cover/index.html

The X2 article (ASC’s online archives, for some odd reason, skip between 1999-2001) refers to the first film being shot in anamorphic before explaining why X2 was not. If anyone can find an article from the AC July 2000 issue, it should completely confirm this (and possibly mention whether any shots, like VFX shots, were done in Super 35 or VistaVision-- as the “Moulin Rogue!” article mentioned one scene was shot in Super 35 for VFX reasons-- but at the same time those shots could be hard-matted. Given that “X-Men” did not go through a DI, any 4x3 transfer would likely be sourced from an anamorphic IP).

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EJones216 said:

IMDb isn’t the most reliable, but American Cinematographer normally is. https://www.theasc.com/magazine/april03/cover/index.html

The X2 article (ASC’s online archives, for some odd reason, skip between 1999-2001) refers to the first film being shot in anamorphic before explaining why X2 was not. If anyone can find an article from the AC July 2000 issue, it should completely confirm this (and possibly mention whether any shots, like VFX shots, were done in Super 35 or VistaVision-- as the “Moulin Rogue!” article mentioned one scene was shot in Super 35 for VFX reasons-- but at the same time those shots could be hard-matted. Given that “X-Men” did not go through a DI, any 4x3 transfer would likely be sourced from an anamorphic IP).

Good info, we might be able to forget about X-Men, however it seems X2: United and X-Men: The Last Stand are S35 and anyone know if the fullscreen DVDs are opened up?

Also,
‘9 to 5’ fullscreen DVD is open-matte.
Doom Unrated Extended fullscreen DVD is P&S/cropped.

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Well, since I cannot recover the last account I made because I can’t retrieve the last email I gave with it, I opened up a new one so I hope no one has a problem with that. If any admin does, let me know.

Anyways, I have a few to add. The full-screen versions of E.T have the credits and actor only shots that are unmatted 4:3 (some may be zoomed in further than others but it depends on the shot). The FF DVD of Road to Perdition, while being S35, is only cropped a little bit on the sides in most shots but shows more vertically in 4:3 (and I think in one office shot, you can see lights at the end of the wall prop).

For the later X-Men FF DVDs, I think X2 used a 1.78 open matte master and side cropped it to 4:3, but then also cropped the VFX shots which I believe were hard matted to OAR. X-Men: The Last Stand I believe was pan and scanned from a matted scope master like one of the Harry Potter films were. The Fast and Furious full screen DVDs I also hear, are 1.78 OM masters side cropped to 4:3. But 2F2F strangely had hard matted live action shots that were P&S, while the SFX were opened back up to the VistaVision ratio but cropped to 4:3.

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so X-Men United along with the first Fast and Furious are not pan and scan in the traditional sense but rather sort of a hybrid between open matte and pan and scan, im a little confused about ET are the full screen dvd’s open matte for some shots but not others ?

fun fact I noticed no matter what channel it comes on Terminator 3 is always shown in open matte when it airs

“I will call this one BOHIJ”
-Chris O’Neil

“Heh Funnie Scream”
-The Boys From Oneyplays

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 (Edited)

I just ordered the Full Screen DVDs of Nightmare on Elm Street 1, Nightmare on Elm Street 2 and First Blood 1 - 3…

"I kill Gandalf." - Igor, Dork Tower

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Jp4195 said:

Im a little confused about ET, are the full screen dvd’s open matte for some shots but not others ?

When I last saw the 20th anniversary 4:3 DVD, I remember the OP/ED credits and actors only scenes like the one with Elliot’s brothers at the table had alot more vertical information (but loses a bit on the sides) compared to the widescreen theatrical cut on disc 2. That scene there (and a few others) is clearly matted top and bottom while gaining some side information. On the shots with ET and the VFX, they are clearly side cropped but do gain a bit on the top and bottom, meaning they were hard matted/animated somewhere at around 1.66 so cropping to 4:3 wouldn’t be such a mess.

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Jp4195 said:

So X-Men United along with the first Fast and Furious are not pan and scan in the traditional sense but rather sort of a hybrid between open matte and pan and scan >

Yes, because the most common way of getting 4:3 out of Super 35 films is using the full framing it was shot in (usually 1.78 or 1.66:1, though some are full 1.37 Academy) then side cropping to 4:3. VFX can vary from getting the same treatment if done on the full S35 ratio (True Lies and SM2 are examples), or being P&S if they were animated/matted to OAR during production. Most HDTV airings of the F&F films are open matte (though some shots or VFX on the later ones like Fast and Furious may be cropped).

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Super 35 is generally 4x3 on the negative (4-perf only, of course) but the extra information depends on the transfer-- most major studio films in the late 20th-century will have exposed the entire 24x18mm gate on the negative (including anamorphic and Academy 1.85:1 films) and only be matted on the married print. The “Spider-Man” comparisons posted earlier have a couple frames with more information on the left in 4x3 than 1.85:1, and pan-and-scan versions of “October Sky” and “GoldenEye” (I’m sure plenty of others) occasionally go beyond the 2.35:1’s left edge. For a different kind of “unmatted version”, the widescreen versions of MGM’s original R1 DVDs of “Species” and “The Great Escape” are two I know of that expand the left area of the frane (DVDBeaver has comparisons on both).

“Reservoir Dogs” (1997 DVD-- not the 2002 which is completely pan-and-scan) appears to be a straight unmatted transfer, although both the 4x3 and letterbox transfers are overcropped on the left side (running comparisons to the 2002 DVD, it appears the 1997 transfers (which might have been the same ones made for LD and VHS) were done to Academy measurements rather than Super 35, but regardless is another unmatted DVD at your disposal).

T2’s Ultimate Edition’s extras go at length to describe the Super 35 topline used in its production (centered at 1.85:1 with 2.35:1 common top, CGI shots hard-matted at 2.00:1 with 20% top and 80% bottom, framing chart here: http://www.davidmullenasc.com/super35chart.jpg), and in Cameron’s “Letterbox Heresies” essay he appears to favor sizing the 4x3 frame at the 1.85:1’s height, which would explain why his 4x3 transfers are generally a 50/50 split between OAR and pan-and-scan (and examined closely enough, completely ignores the original framing-- the beginning of the pseudopod’s POV shot in "The Abyss’ uses the very bottom of the frame to where the film gate is visible, and as such loses some of the top of the 2.35:1’s frame. The Super 35 demo on T2 Ultimate Edition also shows a shot that goes to the very top). It’s possible many non-Cameron transfers utilized this methodology since the 4x3 negative may be in many shots not completely protected for boom mics and other equipment.

(there’s also Super 35 “common top”, which I assume is more likely to result in an unmatted transfer because all the extra image is below the 2.35:1 frame, but it would need a reference as to what films were shot that way. “Ronin” is the only one I know for a fact was-- still cropped on sides but mostly unmatted as shown here with other S35 comparisons including “The Matrix” at http://www.cinedie.com/formatting2.htm – but this framing was popular enough for Fincher to express his disdain for it and use a common center on “The Game”)

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Supermartyohreturns said:

Well, since I cannot recover the last account I made because I can’t retrieve the last email I gave with it, I opened up a new one so I hope no one has a problem with that. If any admin does, let me know.

Anyways, I have a few to add. The full-screen versions of E.T have the credits and actor only shots that are unmatted 4:3 (some may be zoomed in further than others but it depends on the shot). The FF DVD of Road to Perdition, while being S35, is only cropped a little bit on the sides in most shots but shows more vertically in 4:3 (and I think in one office shot, you can see lights at the end of the wall prop).

For the later X-Men FF DVDs, I think X2 used a 1.78 open matte master and side cropped it to 4:3, but then also cropped the VFX shots which I believe were hard matted to OAR. X-Men: The Last Stand I believe was pan and scanned from a matted scope master like one of the Harry Potter films were. The Fast and Furious full screen DVDs I also hear, are 1.78 OM masters side cropped to 4:3. But 2F2F strangely had hard matted live action shots that were P&S, while the SFX were opened back up to the VistaVision ratio but cropped to 4:3.

Thank you for the detail. If I understand, X1: P&S/cropped, X2: partially opened, X3: P&S/cropped?

Anyone know if Dracula (1994) FS DVD is opened-up?

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I just got First Blood part 2 Full Screen DVD.
Starts widescreen letterboxed, and after Credits zoomed in. So, no more Informations on top and bottom.
I think this will be the same for the first and 3rd Rambo Movie.

Does anyone know which Nightmare on Elm Street Movies are avaible open matted on 1.33:1 Full Screen DVDs?
Only the 1st and the 2nd?

"I kill Gandalf." - Igor, Dork Tower

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MrBrown said:

Does anyone know which Nightmare on Elm Street Movies are avaible open matted on 1.33:1 Full Screen DVDs?
Only the 1st and the 2nd?

All of them.

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Vouka said:

MrBrown said:

Does anyone know which Nightmare on Elm Street Movies are avaible open matted on 1.33:1 Full Screen DVDs?
Only the 1st and the 2nd?

All of them.

Damn… 😄 Need to keep looking for them. And as being from germany, the postage ist sometimes more then the actual discs, if I locate one at eBay.

"I kill Gandalf." - Igor, Dork Tower