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For those doubting that GL had the whole saga planned out in detail while making IV

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What do you think Yoda might have originally meant when he told Obi wan “No, there is another”. Was Luke gonna be killed or something and a new character introduced or something? Or perhaps Luke just couldn’t be in two places at once and he would become part of the side story as a new character became the other new hope and fixed the universe. Maybe Luke could have been converted to the dark side even?

This is a thread for people that don’t believe GL really had everything planned out from the beginning and might have made some stuff up along the way.

Obviously they didn’t use the “another” at all so why did they bother mentioning the another if they turned out unimportant?

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Actually, they didn’t plan it to necessarily be Leia. He, IIRC, was actually gonna find another jedi who we didn’t know. Otherwise, Lucas definitely has an incest fetish.

Right and wrong is a brand

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“No, there is another” always referred to a long-lost twin sister, but the long-lost twin sister was intended to be someone we hadn’t seen before, not Leia.

If Plagueis shows up in the ST, not only will I refuse to watch the movies, but I won't so much as watch the trailers, either. - DuracellEnergizer

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We know that Lucas didn’t have it all planned out from the beginning because we have early drafts and treatments for each movie. And for the prequels, he changed the entire reason Anakin turned to the dark side in post-production, so he couldn’t have had it planned for very long.

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I think we can close the thread. Either that, or provide some help with tv settings.

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There was also the scary car accident Mark had before ESB, that may have colored George’s thinking about the rest of the saga.

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Where were you in '77?

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darklordoftech said:

“No, there is another” always referred to a long-lost twin sister, but the long-lost twin sister was intended to be someone we hadn’t seen before, not Leia.

KumoNin said:

Actually, they didn’t plan it to necessarily be Leia. He, IIRC, was actually gonna find another jedi who we didn’t know. Otherwise, Lucas definitely has an incest fetish.

Hmmmmm… who to believe.

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I hate when I can’t decide between two things that are exactly the same.

Keep Circulating the Tapes.

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Tyrphanax said:

I hate when I can’t decide between two things that are exactly the same.

Yeah, like “removing a disguise” and “revealing the true identity,” amirite amirite??

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MathUser said:

What do you think Yoda might have originally meant when he told Obi wan “No, there is another”. Was Luke gonna be killed or something and a new character introduced or something? Or perhaps Luke just couldn’t be in two places at once and he would become part of the side story as a new character became the other new hope and fixed the universe. Maybe Luke could have been converted to the dark side even?

This is a thread for people that don’t believe GL really had everything planned out from the beginning and might have made some stuff up along the way.

Obviously they didn’t use the “another” at all so why did they bother mentioning the another if they turned out unimportant?

My answer to all of the above.

“I am a writer. Therefore, I am not sane.”

― Edgar Allan Poe

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Booman said:

You guys should really check out the original script to The Empire Strikes Back. It pretty much disproves the whole “planned out in advance” thing, and you can tell that they had planned for the story to go in a different direction. Most importantly the big twist is not there. It was a fun read though, I enjoyed it.

http://scyfilove.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/Star-Wars-The-Empire-Strikes-Back-Brackett-Draft.pdf

I’ve read that before and it really is fantastic. Really provides a lot of context for the screenplay we got.

Keep Circulating the Tapes.

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KumoNin said:

Actually, they didn’t plan it to necessarily be Leia. He, IIRC, was actually gonna find another jedi who we didn’t know. Otherwise, Lucas definitely has an incest fetish.

With all the other deliberate Siegfried and King Arthur parallels elsewhere in the OT, I’d say it’s actually damn surprising that the sibling incest is so downplayed in the films.

“That Darth Vader, man. Sure does love eating Jedi.”

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I thought the ESB twist wasn’t in the script. They told Mark before they shot the scene. Am I thinking of something else?

“After a time, you may find that having, is not so pleasing a thing after all, as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true.” - Spock

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^ That was for reasons of plot security on set, rather than that detail not being decided by shooting time. The scripts also don’t mention Luke having his hand cut off and replaced with a prosthesis. (Earlier drafts call for special insert pages at those particular points.)

“That Darth Vader, man. Sure does love eating Jedi.”

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KumoNin said:

Actually, they didn’t plan it to necessarily be Leia. He, IIRC, was actually gonna find another jedi who we didn’t know. Otherwise, Lucas definitely has an incest fetish.

Wasn’t the initial plan to have another character introduced (and another storyline), but once the decision was made to wrap everything up in ROTJ, they sort of retconned it to be Leia?

“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one.”

Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death

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Mike O said:

KumoNin said:

Actually, they didn’t plan it to necessarily be Leia. He, IIRC, was actually gonna find another jedi who we didn’t know. Otherwise, Lucas definitely has an incest fetish.

Wasn’t the initial plan to have another character introduced (and another storyline), but once the decision was made to wrap everything up in ROTJ, they sort of retconned it to be Leia?

Pretty much, yeah.

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Incest still can’t be ruled out of that plot line though. ;D

“That Darth Vader, man. Sure does love eating Jedi.”

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ATMachine said:

^ That was for reasons of plot security on set, rather than that detail not being decided by shooting time. The scripts also don’t mention Luke having his hand cut off and replaced with a prosthesis. (Earlier drafts call for special insert pages at those particular points.)

Yes, with the amount of secrecy involved, I can believe that it was planned but deliberately left out of the screenplay. Same with the Leia reveal in ROTJ.

One thing I have noticed from reading the earlier drafts of the original movie, is that things tended to carry over, even if they went to different characters. So a lot of the details change, but a lot of the core elements remain. Twins was one of the recurring ideas so I can see GL toying back and forth with the idea. But aren’t Luke and Leia supposed to be the same age? I know Hammill and Fisher aren’t the same age, but the characters were supposed to be even back in 1977. How set GL was on the idea I couldn’t say, but I think he left the story open to that option.

From design ideas for Jabba, I think it is clear that Jabba was designed for that scene with him in ANH. I can’t say if that design came from 1977 or from 1983, but I think it is clear Lucas was still thinking about the cut Jabba scene when they were designing the way he’d look.

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Actually, Luke and Leia were respectively 20 and 16 in the shooting script for the 1977 film. So they weren’t the same age, and thus not twins.

However, nobody said anything about them not being related – in fact, the instances of brother/sister incest in both Wagner’s Die Walkure and the Arthurian mythos involve half-siblings born at different times. But that might be a little more than you wanted to know.

“That Darth Vader, man. Sure does love eating Jedi.”

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ATMachine said:

Actually, Luke and Leia were respectively 20 and 16 in the shooting script for the 1977 film. So they weren’t the same age, and thus not twins.

However, nobody said anything about them not being related – in fact, the instances of brother/sister incest in both Wagner’s Die Walkure and the Arthurian mythos involve half-siblings born at different times. But that might be a little more than you wanted to know.

A little more?

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ATMachine said:

Actually, Luke and Leia were respectively 20 and 16 in the shooting script for the 1977 film. So they weren’t the same age, and thus not twins.

However, nobody said anything about them not being related – in fact, the instances of brother/sister incest in both Wagner’s Die Walkure and the Arthurian mythos involve half-siblings born at different times. But that might be a little more than you wanted to know.

I don’t believe the shooting script gave their ages. The previous draft of the script gave her age as 16, but not the shooting draft. Promotional materials list Luke as 20 and Leia as young.

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Simply put, you’re wrong. The SW 1977 shooting script (the revised fourth draft from March 1976) DOES say that Luke is 20 and Leia is about 16.

This is not to be confused with the “public version” of the shooting script, which came out in the wake of the movie’s release. This was altered after the fact to be a mirror image the actual film - a practice Lucasfilm would continue with future movies.

And even that gives Luke and Leia different ages: Luke’s age is now 18, but Leia is still “about sixteen years old.”

“That Darth Vader, man. Sure does love eating Jedi.”