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thoughts? comments?
thoughts? comments?
Flight 93
thoughts? comments?
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Then again, I didn't know anyone who died in that plane crash so maybe I shouldn't speak..
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Originally posted by: ricarleite
I belive it is quite inapropriated to make a fiction out of it. While something like, let's say, a war film, is acceptable because it either portrait real, documented events, or uses fictional characters, I belive it is VERY inapropriated to use those people for a movie, asuming what they must have done or acted. And do it for profit. I do not intend to watch it.
The creators of the movie did their absolute best to make it as accurate as possible. They went as far as to ask the family members of the passengers what clothing they were wearing that day. The guy in the movie that played the FAA administrator that ordered every plane out of the sky...that WAS the FAA administrator.I belive it is quite inapropriated to make a fiction out of it. While something like, let's say, a war film, is acceptable because it either portrait real, documented events, or uses fictional characters, I belive it is VERY inapropriated to use those people for a movie, asuming what they must have done or acted. And do it for profit. I do not intend to watch it.
Every member of the families signed off on the movie. Its been stated that if even one had objected, the movie would not have been made.
To answer Warbler's question about the timing...I think its been too long. There is still a hole in New York City. In any other era of American history, new buildings would already be complete.
Too many people have forgotten how they felt that day. We need that fire back in our bellies. A movie about these events will help people remember.
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Originally posted by: ricarleite
Well, the relatives might have been bri... I mean, convinced to allow the movie to take place, but my point of view is, I would not like to have a movie made out of my last moments of life, as a fiction, a made-up fiction on how I acted at that moment, for PROFIT. OK, let's make a movie of people jumping out of the WTC, complete with funny cartoon sound effects. Not so great, eh? Same thing to me.
Well, the relatives might have been bri... I mean, convinced to allow the movie to take place, but my point of view is, I would not like to have a movie made out of my last moments of life, as a fiction, a made-up fiction on how I acted at that moment, for PROFIT. OK, let's make a movie of people jumping out of the WTC, complete with funny cartoon sound effects. Not so great, eh? Same thing to me.
Ric besides liking EVA we are worlds apart.
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Seriously though, I think it's about damn time for something like this to come around. People have a tendency to forget very quickly, and maybe this will remind people just why we took up arms in the first place.
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Originally posted by: ricarleite
Well, the relatives might have been bri... I mean, convinced to allow the movie to take place, ..
Ric, do you have and proof that the relatives were bribed? I find it difficult to believe that the family would be able to be bribed. To jump to that conclusion, insults thefamily members as well as those that died on the plane. If a family member of yours died on a plane that, could you be bribed to aprove a movie about it?
There are no funny sound effects, no over dramatization. Nothing cheap or stupit or over the top. No catchy dramatic theme song. No spectacular stunts or special effects or fake look cgi. It was a very serious movie. I find it difficult to compare it with movie depicting the people jumping out of the WTC using cartoon sound effects. And how can you say they are the same thing when you have called Flight 93 a fiction, and clearly the people jumping out of the WTC is not?
Ric, have seen Titanic? How about Pearl Harbor? Do you refuse to see them as well? Those movie are more fictionalized that this. They did not add a fictional romance in Flight 93 for example.
Originally posted by: sean wookie
We should tell bush the terrorists are in africa maybe they could help them.
Well, the relatives might have been bri... I mean, convinced to allow the movie to take place, ..
Ric, do you have and proof that the relatives were bribed? I find it difficult to believe that the family would be able to be bribed. To jump to that conclusion, insults thefamily members as well as those that died on the plane. If a family member of yours died on a plane that, could you be bribed to aprove a movie about it?
Originally posted by: ricarleite
but my point of view is, I would not like to have a movie made out of my last moments of life, as a fiction, a made-up fiction on how I acted at that moment, for PROFIT
Why do you keep calling it fiction? Do you not believe that the events actually happened? True, no one knows exactly what happened, but we do have the final phones calls to the family members. We know the plane was taken over by Hijackers and that it crashed in the ground in the middle of PA. I doubt that PA was the intended target. Add the facts together and we can conclude the People on the plane attempted to retake the plane and in the process, the plane crashed. Also I have seen the movie, a good portion of the moive was spent on depicting events in the control towers. Those parts were not fiction.
Originally posted by: ricarleite
. OK, let's make a movie of people jumping out of the WTC, complete with funny cartoon sound effects. Not so great, eh? Same thing to me.
but my point of view is, I would not like to have a movie made out of my last moments of life, as a fiction, a made-up fiction on how I acted at that moment, for PROFIT
Why do you keep calling it fiction? Do you not believe that the events actually happened? True, no one knows exactly what happened, but we do have the final phones calls to the family members. We know the plane was taken over by Hijackers and that it crashed in the ground in the middle of PA. I doubt that PA was the intended target. Add the facts together and we can conclude the People on the plane attempted to retake the plane and in the process, the plane crashed. Also I have seen the movie, a good portion of the moive was spent on depicting events in the control towers. Those parts were not fiction.
Originally posted by: ricarleite
. OK, let's make a movie of people jumping out of the WTC, complete with funny cartoon sound effects. Not so great, eh? Same thing to me.
There are no funny sound effects, no over dramatization. Nothing cheap or stupit or over the top. No catchy dramatic theme song. No spectacular stunts or special effects or fake look cgi. It was a very serious movie. I find it difficult to compare it with movie depicting the people jumping out of the WTC using cartoon sound effects. And how can you say they are the same thing when you have called Flight 93 a fiction, and clearly the people jumping out of the WTC is not?
Ric, have seen Titanic? How about Pearl Harbor? Do you refuse to see them as well? Those movie are more fictionalized that this. They did not add a fictional romance in Flight 93 for example.
Originally posted by: sean wookie
We should tell bush the terrorists are in africa maybe they could help them.
please discuss that in the politics thread and stay on topic here. thankyou.
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In response to Ric: If the profits from "Flight 93" went straight to charities THEN would you be okay with it? Or do you just not like the premise?
In response to Warb: "Add the facts together and we can conclude the People on the plane attempted to retake the plane and in the process, the plane crashed."
I thought they purposely crashed it.
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Originally posted by: Warbler
There are no funny sound effects, no over dramatization. Nothing cheap or stupit or over the top. No catchy dramatic theme song. No spectacular stunts or special effects or fake look cgi. It was a very serious movie. I find it difficult to compare it with movie depicting the people jumping out of the WTC using cartoon sound effects. And how can you say they are the same thing when you have called Flight 93 a fiction, and clearly the people jumping out of the WTC is not?
Ric, have seen Titanic? How about Pearl Harbor? Do you refuse to see them as well? Those movie are more fictionalized that this. They did not add a fictional romance in Flight 93 for example.
Originally posted by: ricarleite
Well, the relatives might have been bri... I mean, convinced to allow the movie to take place, ..
Ric, do you have and proof that the relatives were bribed? I find it difficult to believe that the family would be able to be bribed. To jump to that conclusion, insults thefamily members as well as those that died on the plane. If a family member of yours died on a plane that, could you be bribed to aprove a movie about it?
I shouldn't have said it this way. Sorry. But I mean, they were offered money, right?
No, forget the whole 9-11 thing, I am not talking about that. If this happened in a different circustance, I would have said the same. All I'm saying is, that is fiction because the dialogue and actions taken are made up, they don't know exactly what happened. It's made to be a disaster flick, it's like Airplane '77, but taking real people and making up dialogue to conduct the plot dramatically.
Originally posted by: Warbler
Originally posted by: ricarleite
. OK, let's make a movie of people jumping out of the WTC, complete with funny cartoon sound effects. Not so great, eh? Same thing to me.
Well, the relatives might have been bri... I mean, convinced to allow the movie to take place, ..
Ric, do you have and proof that the relatives were bribed? I find it difficult to believe that the family would be able to be bribed. To jump to that conclusion, insults thefamily members as well as those that died on the plane. If a family member of yours died on a plane that, could you be bribed to aprove a movie about it?
I shouldn't have said it this way. Sorry. But I mean, they were offered money, right?
Originally posted by: Warbler
Why do you keep calling it fiction? Do you not believe that the events actually happened? True, no one knows exactly what happened, but we do have the final phones calls to the family members. We know the plane was taken over by Hijackers and that it crashed in the ground in the middle of PA. I doubt that PA was the intended target. Add the facts together and we can conclude the People on the plane attempted to retake the plane and in the process, the plane crashed. Also I have seen the movie, a good portion of the moive was spent on depicting events in the control towers. Those parts were not fiction.
Originally posted by: ricarleite
but my point of view is, I would not like to have a movie made out of my last moments of life, as a fiction, a made-up fiction on how I acted at that moment, for PROFIT
but my point of view is, I would not like to have a movie made out of my last moments of life, as a fiction, a made-up fiction on how I acted at that moment, for PROFIT
Why do you keep calling it fiction? Do you not believe that the events actually happened? True, no one knows exactly what happened, but we do have the final phones calls to the family members. We know the plane was taken over by Hijackers and that it crashed in the ground in the middle of PA. I doubt that PA was the intended target. Add the facts together and we can conclude the People on the plane attempted to retake the plane and in the process, the plane crashed. Also I have seen the movie, a good portion of the moive was spent on depicting events in the control towers. Those parts were not fiction.
No, forget the whole 9-11 thing, I am not talking about that. If this happened in a different circustance, I would have said the same. All I'm saying is, that is fiction because the dialogue and actions taken are made up, they don't know exactly what happened. It's made to be a disaster flick, it's like Airplane '77, but taking real people and making up dialogue to conduct the plot dramatically.
Originally posted by: Warbler
Originally posted by: ricarleite
. OK, let's make a movie of people jumping out of the WTC, complete with funny cartoon sound effects. Not so great, eh? Same thing to me.
There are no funny sound effects, no over dramatization. Nothing cheap or stupit or over the top. No catchy dramatic theme song. No spectacular stunts or special effects or fake look cgi. It was a very serious movie. I find it difficult to compare it with movie depicting the people jumping out of the WTC using cartoon sound effects. And how can you say they are the same thing when you have called Flight 93 a fiction, and clearly the people jumping out of the WTC is not?
Ric, have seen Titanic? How about Pearl Harbor? Do you refuse to see them as well? Those movie are more fictionalized that this. They did not add a fictional romance in Flight 93 for example.
If the movie keeps a serious tone, like a... dramatized documentary, it dosen't sound as creepy and disrespectful as it did when I first saw the teaser trailer at... Memoirs of a Geisha if I'm not mistaken. I am comparing both this way because both envolved loss of innocent lifes.
Both films used fictional characters. I found the movie "Alive" to be VERY disrespectful as well, even though most of them survived.
And ok, maybe it's because it happened recently. If someone asked me to allow for a relative to be a character on such a movie, I would not allow. If this happened to me, I would be one pissed off angry ghost if they did a character out of me. I might be overreacting and twisting thing a little bit here, I agree, but why am I the only one shocked by the porpouse of this film?
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Originally posted by: ricarleite
Oh I just love when we discuss to the point where I have to edit those quote tags...
to me it makes the debate more clear. It it much clearer exactly what I am responding to this way.
I have not seen Alive so again I can't compare the two. What was Alive about?
Originally posted by: ricarleite
And ok, maybe it's because it happened recently. If someone asked me to allow for a relative to be a character on such a movie, I would not allow. If this happened to me, I would be one pissed off angry ghost if they did a character out of me. I might be overreacting and twisting thing a little bit here, I agree, but why am I the only one shocked by the porpouse of this film?
Oh I just love when we discuss to the point where I have to edit those quote tags...
to me it makes the debate more clear. It it much clearer exactly what I am responding to this way.
Originally posted by: ricarleite
But I mean, they were offered money, right?
I do not know. According to Starkiller, all of the families signed off. I find it difficult to belive that all of the famlies could be bribed. Maybe a few, but all? I think not. Also find it hard to beleive that the studio would take the risk. Suppose just one family member says no and takes the attempted bribery to the press? It would be a public relations nightmare for the studio. All of this makes it difficult for me to believe the money was used to gain support of the families without any evidence.
IMHO, the tone of the movie very serious and not disrespectful. I have not seen Memoirs Of A Geisha so I can not compare the two.
Originally posted by: ricarleite
Both films used fictional characters. I found the movie "Alive" to be VERY disrespectful as well, even though most of them survived.
But I mean, they were offered money, right?
I do not know. According to Starkiller, all of the families signed off. I find it difficult to belive that all of the famlies could be bribed. Maybe a few, but all? I think not. Also find it hard to beleive that the studio would take the risk. Suppose just one family member says no and takes the attempted bribery to the press? It would be a public relations nightmare for the studio. All of this makes it difficult for me to believe the money was used to gain support of the families without any evidence.
Originally posted by: ricarleite
No, forget the whole 9-11 thing, I am not talking about that. If this happened in a different circustance, I would have said the same. All I'm saying is, that is fiction because the dialogue and actions taken are made up, they don't know exactly what happened. It's made to be a disaster flick, it's like Airplane '77, but taking real people and making up dialogue to conduct the plot dramatically.
true they were forced to add dialogue actions because no one actually witnessed the events on plane is alive. But as I said we know the plane was hijacked, we have the final phone calls (good portion the ending is spent depicting them), from phone calls we know that the passengers were planning to attempt to retake the plane, plane crash in a field in PA, it is doubtfull that the field was the intended target of the hijackers. True they added stuff, but they were forced too. I don't think they added anything unnecessarily. I don't think anything was added to make the film more dramatic. There were no big dramatic fist fights or anying of the like in the taking and retaking of the plane. The passengers were not depicted as being superheros or anything, just oridinary people in extreme events. I think they tried to get as close the truth as they could. And you can't compare it to the Airport movies(btw, the 1st is great, the others are not worth seeing imho) in that in the end of those movies the plane and landed safely and most of the passengers survived. That is not true here. Also the airport movies were completely fiction this movie is not completely fiction, it is only fiction where it is forced to be.
Originally posted by: ricarleite
If the movie keeps a serious tone, like a... dramatized documentary, it dosen't sound as creepy and disrespectful as it did when I first saw the teaser trailer at... Memoirs of a Geisha if I'm not mistaken. I am comparing both this way because both envolved loss of innocent lifes.
No, forget the whole 9-11 thing, I am not talking about that. If this happened in a different circustance, I would have said the same. All I'm saying is, that is fiction because the dialogue and actions taken are made up, they don't know exactly what happened. It's made to be a disaster flick, it's like Airplane '77, but taking real people and making up dialogue to conduct the plot dramatically.
true they were forced to add dialogue actions because no one actually witnessed the events on plane is alive. But as I said we know the plane was hijacked, we have the final phone calls (good portion the ending is spent depicting them), from phone calls we know that the passengers were planning to attempt to retake the plane, plane crash in a field in PA, it is doubtfull that the field was the intended target of the hijackers. True they added stuff, but they were forced too. I don't think they added anything unnecessarily. I don't think anything was added to make the film more dramatic. There were no big dramatic fist fights or anying of the like in the taking and retaking of the plane. The passengers were not depicted as being superheros or anything, just oridinary people in extreme events. I think they tried to get as close the truth as they could. And you can't compare it to the Airport movies(btw, the 1st is great, the others are not worth seeing imho) in that in the end of those movies the plane and landed safely and most of the passengers survived. That is not true here. Also the airport movies were completely fiction this movie is not completely fiction, it is only fiction where it is forced to be.
Originally posted by: ricarleite
If the movie keeps a serious tone, like a... dramatized documentary, it dosen't sound as creepy and disrespectful as it did when I first saw the teaser trailer at... Memoirs of a Geisha if I'm not mistaken. I am comparing both this way because both envolved loss of innocent lifes.
IMHO, the tone of the movie very serious and not disrespectful. I have not seen Memoirs Of A Geisha so I can not compare the two.
Originally posted by: ricarleite
Both films used fictional characters. I found the movie "Alive" to be VERY disrespectful as well, even though most of them survived.
I have not seen Alive so again I can't compare the two. What was Alive about?
Originally posted by: ricarleite
And ok, maybe it's because it happened recently. If someone asked me to allow for a relative to be a character on such a movie, I would not allow. If this happened to me, I would be one pissed off angry ghost if they did a character out of me. I might be overreacting and twisting thing a little bit here, I agree, but why am I the only one shocked by the porpouse of this film?
I am not sure what I would have done if I were in position of the family member. One thing I am certain of : bribery would not work on me. I would not comprise my loved ones final moments for money. Ric you are not the only one upset by this movie, many in my country think it was too soon for a movie of this nature.
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Originally posted by: Warbler
I am not sure what I would have done if I were in position of the family member. One thing I am certain of : bribery would not work on me. I would not comprise my loved ones final moments for money. Ric you are not the only one upset by this movie, many in my country think it was too soon for a movie of this nature.
Originally posted by: ricarleite
If the movie keeps a serious tone, like a... dramatized documentary, it dosen't sound as creepy and disrespectful as it did when I first saw the teaser trailer at... Memoirs of a Geisha if I'm not mistaken. I am comparing both this way because both envolved loss of innocent lifes.
IMHO, the tone of the movie very serious and not disrespectful. I have not seen Memoirs Of A Geisha so I can not compare the two.
No, I wasn't comparing Memoirs of a Geisha with it, I was just saying I first saw the teaser trailer when I saw that particular film.
About the plane filled with Uruguayan rugby players that crashed in the Andes in the early 70s. They intercut scenes featuring people dying at the wrecks and eating out the flesh of the dead with comic releaf, so...
Originally posted by: Warbler
Originally posted by: ricarleite
And ok, maybe it's because it happened recently. If someone asked me to allow for a relative to be a character on such a movie, I would not allow. If this happened to me, I would be one pissed off angry ghost if they did a character out of me. I might be overreacting and twisting thing a little bit here, I agree, but why am I the only one shocked by the porpouse of this film?
If the movie keeps a serious tone, like a... dramatized documentary, it dosen't sound as creepy and disrespectful as it did when I first saw the teaser trailer at... Memoirs of a Geisha if I'm not mistaken. I am comparing both this way because both envolved loss of innocent lifes.
IMHO, the tone of the movie very serious and not disrespectful. I have not seen Memoirs Of A Geisha so I can not compare the two.
No, I wasn't comparing Memoirs of a Geisha with it, I was just saying I first saw the teaser trailer when I saw that particular film.
Originally posted by: Warbler
I have not seen Alive so again I can't compare the two. What was Alive about?
Originally posted by: ricarleite
Both films used fictional characters. I found the movie "Alive" to be VERY disrespectful as well, even though most of them survived.
Both films used fictional characters. I found the movie "Alive" to be VERY disrespectful as well, even though most of them survived.
I have not seen Alive so again I can't compare the two. What was Alive about?
About the plane filled with Uruguayan rugby players that crashed in the Andes in the early 70s. They intercut scenes featuring people dying at the wrecks and eating out the flesh of the dead with comic releaf, so...
Originally posted by: Warbler
Originally posted by: ricarleite
And ok, maybe it's because it happened recently. If someone asked me to allow for a relative to be a character on such a movie, I would not allow. If this happened to me, I would be one pissed off angry ghost if they did a character out of me. I might be overreacting and twisting thing a little bit here, I agree, but why am I the only one shocked by the porpouse of this film?
I am not sure what I would have done if I were in position of the family member. One thing I am certain of : bribery would not work on me. I would not comprise my loved ones final moments for money. Ric you are not the only one upset by this movie, many in my country think it was too soon for a movie of this nature.
I wasn't saying they were bribed. It was a wrong statement by me, I apologise, I meant they were paid, in a legitimate way. Me, I wouldn't allow it AT ALL, no matter how much they paid me. A loved one dies and they wanna make a movie out of it? I wouldn't be able to sleep at night knowing that, let's say, people are watching my wife die while eating popcorn at the movies...
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Hey look, a bear!
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Originally posted by: JarHead413
The amout of movies that would never have been made if everyone thought as you did, is astounding. This is not a hit against you....just an observation.
The amout of movies that would never have been made if everyone thought as you did, is astounding. This is not a hit against you....just an observation.
Mostly all biopics in which the portraited did not authorize and the filmmakers had a lot of creative freedom writing it.
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