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Finally Got Rid of My 2004 DVD's... — Page 2

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Yeah, I thought he was complimenting Darth_Evil as generous for giving away the movies. Most people would try to get money for the "tripe" they wish to be rid of.


Originally posted by: Darth-Adroit
I didn’t like anything about the ROTS Duel between Anakin and Ben. The early dialog was destroyed by GL’s inept attempt at an insult of George W, “Only Sith deal in absolutes.” What a load of crap. I guess Yoda was a Sith when he said, “Do or do not, there is no try.” The late dialog was destroyed by Ben’s “I have the high ground” statement. Did the high ground matter when Obi-Wan killed Darth Maul? I won’t even go into the actual Lightsaber duel and how difficult it made it for me to maintain my suspension of disbelief. I think the music was probably the only thing that was close to right in that sequence.


The "high ground" line didn't bother me troo much, the problem was the visual context presented for the line. Obiwan was on a fairly low hill of dirt and we all saw Luke perform jumps in Empire and Jedi that would have been sufficient to leap over Obiwan, surely Anakin could have done better. And, yes, via the force we saw many PT jumps that would have dwarfed a small mountain. I scratched my head at that climax over the lack of consistency.

Otherwise, the dig on George Bush was probably unintentional somewhat. GL woudn't purposely alienate a large part of his audience.

Also, that scene where Obiwan jumped out of that pit, flipped over Darth Maul, picked up Qui-Gon's lightsaber, landed behind Maul, activated the lightsaber, and then sliced Darth Maul in half was absurd. That awesome duel deserved a much better ending. All of the alarming strength and skill that Maul exhibited was totally thrown out the window at that scene (unless you assume he was distracted by his over-confidence or something silly lie that). Oh well, I suppose inventing a physically complicated climax would have taxed Lucas' logical skills too much and so he made up some crap ending at the last moment and then deemed it "good enough." Spending ten minutes to invent something better is obviously too haaarrd.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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Originally posted by: Tiptup
GL woudn't purposely alienate a large part of his audience.


You're kidding, right? LOL

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Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape He did say it was generous. He was just simultaneously expressing his views about the movies as well.

Thanks Gaffer Tape; that was precisely my intent.

Sorry if it was a little ambiguous Darth Evil. I’m glad your cousins are enjoying the 2004 DVDs I just don’t like them myself. That’s not meant as an indictment of you or your cousins. I have a nephew that enjoys the 2004 DVDs and I don’t think any less of him for that. I do think you were generous because many would’ve put the movies on eBay to try and comp their expenses for the OOT DVDs

Originally posted by: Tiptup
Otherwise, the dig on George Bush was probably unintentional somewhat. GL woudn't purposely alienate a large part of his audience.


You might be correct, but I don’t see any other reason for the statement. George has had issues with the Hollywood establishment in the past and I think the line was an olive branch towards them. I really think George was trying to remind them that while he might be a “maverick” his overall ideology is still left of center just like them. The people he was appealing to are casual viewers of his films. They are politically astute, but GFFA ignorant.

Fanboys know Obi-Wan’s statement is a lie. If any real message can be drawn from the PT regarding the Jedi Order it is that they were too dogmatic. EVERYTHING was Black and White with the Jedi and that contributed to their downfall. The Sith were the group that embraced a larger view of the force; they were the order that saw shades of grey. The one PT Jedi (Qui-Gon) that tried to direct the order to a more open interpretation of the force was kept off the council for his efforts. The Jedi had their dogma, it worked for generations and it was based on their ideal that the force was black and white. Didn’t Obi-Wan lecture Qui-Gon to be more Orthodox throughout TPM? To someone familiar with the GFFA Ben’s statement is total bull shit.
"Look, going good against bashers/gushers is one thing. Going good against the living? That's something else."
- Darth-Adroit

“I also thought George could be turned back to the good side. It couldn't be done. He is more CGI now than story. Twisted and evil.”
- Darth-Adroit
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Originally posted by: Darth-Adroit
Fanboys know Obi-Wan’s statement is a lie. If any real message can be drawn from the PT regarding the Jedi Order it is that they were too dogmatic. EVERYTHING was Black and White with the Jedi and that contributed to their downfall. The Sith were the group that embraced a larger view of the force; they were the order that saw shades of grey. The one PT Jedi (Qui-Gon) that tried to direct the order to a more open interpretation of the force was kept off the council for his efforts. The Jedi had their dogma, it worked for generations and it was based on their ideal that the force was black and white. Didn’t Obi-Wan lecture Qui-Gon to be more Orthodox throughout TPM? To someone familiar with the GFFA Ben’s statement is total bull shit.


Oh, Iagree, the line itself is completely illogical. I'm just skeptical that it was ever meant to be a direct dig on George Bush. I'm more inclined to think that Lucas just has a certain outlook of the world that is completely irrational and inconsistent, and thus that was the actual source of the line. Certain secularists have the hypocritical viewpoint that moral absolutes are wrong and I bet Lucas was making a crippled attempt to voice something to that affect. Just because certain political debates currently seem to be at the forefront does not mean he was purposely aiming to bring those politics into his movies and therefore criticize "those Christian concervatives" or whatever.

Oh, and to clarify, I believe Lucas will offend people all the time, and be very stubborn about it all, but that's mostly because of his personality flaws and his bad moves. Rarely are his offenses part of some intentional wish on his part if you ask me. I don't believe he is the type to offend people in a large scale fashion if he can help it since that would hurt his most beloved profits.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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Originally posted by: Mielr
Originally posted by: Tiptup
GL woudn't purposely alienate a large part of his audience.


You're kidding, right? LOL


He just did. He's been doing it for, oh, a decade or two now. But he appears to finally be waking up, albiet slowly.

“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one.”

Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death

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Was it on purpose though?

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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Originally posted by: Tiptup
Was it on purpose though?


What exactly do you mean?

“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one.”

Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death

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Originally posted by: Tiptup
Was it on purpose though?

Yeah, I think making the OOT unavailable for the last 10 years and then releasing it on DVD from a laserdisc master, despite obvious demand for a new transfer is definitely "on purpose".

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Originally posted by: Mielr

Yeah, I think making the OOT unavailable for the last 10 years and then releasing it on DVD from a laserdisc master, despite obvious demand for a new transfer is definitely "on purpose".


Well, that's interesting opinion at least. But for me (until I see good enough reason to believe otherwise) it seems easier to believe that George Luca$ has a deranged view of the world than to believe he would purposely hurt his ability to swindle money from Star Wars fans.

At the best, perhaps he'd purposely offend people if he thought it would make him higher profits in the long run . . . that's a possibility.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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Originally posted by: Tiptup
Originally posted by: Mielr

Yeah, I think making the OOT unavailable for the last 10 years and then releasing it on DVD from a laserdisc master, despite obvious demand for a new transfer is definitely "on purpose".


Well, that's interesting opinion at least. But for me (until I see good enough reason to believe otherwise) it seems easier to believe that George Luca$ has a deranged view of the world than to believe he would purposely hurt his ability to swindle money from Star Wars fans.

At the best, perhaps he'd purposely offend people if he thought it would make him higher profits in the long run . . . that's a possibility.


I definitely agree with the "deranged" part, LOL, but I really think he has actual disdain for those of us who prefer the OOT. He can't stand us, because we're the only thing standing in the way of his effectively eliminating the OOT for good, which is what he wants.

If he REALLY wanted to please us, he'd do what Spielberg, Cameron, and so many other directors have done- he'd give us BOTH versions of the OT in beautiful, anamorphic DVD transfers, and let US choose which ones we want to watch. I think his pathological desire to relegate the OOT to second-class-citizen status, outweighs even his desire for $$$. (IMO)

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It's like this: He now has a new vision of Star Wars and any rejection of that vision is considered a personal rejection of him and so he resents those he feels have personally rejected him. I believe it's that simple. Also ironic because his attitude has now led many to personally reject him and now it becomes a vicious circle that doesn't bode well for any hope of any new joys to come from this franchise.
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Originally posted by: Tiptup
Originally posted by: Darth-Adroit
Fanboys know Obi-Wan’s statement is a lie. If any real message can be drawn from the PT regarding the Jedi Order it is that they were too dogmatic. EVERYTHING was Black and White with the Jedi and that contributed to their downfall. The Sith were the group that embraced a larger view of the force; they were the order that saw shades of grey. The one PT Jedi (Qui-Gon) that tried to direct the order to a more open interpretation of the force was kept off the council for his efforts. The Jedi had their dogma, it worked for generations and it was based on their ideal that the force was black and white. Didn’t Obi-Wan lecture Qui-Gon to be more Orthodox throughout TPM? To someone familiar with the GFFA Ben’s statement is total bull shit.


Oh, Iagree, the line itself is completely illogical. I'm just skeptical that it was ever meant to be a direct dig on George Bush. I'm more inclined to think that Lucas just has a certain outlook of the world that is completely irrational and inconsistent, and thus that was the actual source of the line. Certain secularists have the hypocritical viewpoint that moral absolutes are wrong and I bet Lucas was making a crippled attempt to voice something to that affect. Just because certain political debates currently seem to be at the forefront does not mean he was purposely aiming to bring those politics into his movies and therefore criticize "those Christian concervatives" or whatever.

Oh, and to clarify, I believe Lucas will offend people all the time, and be very stubborn about it all, but that's mostly because of his personality flaws and his bad moves. Rarely are his offenses part of some intentional wish on his part if you ask me. I don't believe he is the type to offend people in a large scale fashion if he can help it since that would hurt his most beloved profits.



I just don’t see anyway it could be taken as anything but a dig at the President. I also think that Lucas figured it would slide past the casual viewer, appeal to his buddies like Spielberg and he figured those “astute” enough to catch the jab would either agree with him or not be in the theatre to begin with.

Let me stress what I said the last time I brought up this subject just so I can be clear on my motives. I’m a moderate and an Independent I’m not a big fan of the President, but I don’t think he’s Hitler either. I don’t have a horse in this race politically speaking. I can assure you that Lucas thinks little of the President or those that support him. That being the case I think he “misunderestimated” (to use a Bushism) both those with differing political views and the general audience.

I don’t think he alienated a portion of his audience on purpose. I think he alienated a portion of his audience because he’s out of touch with the rest of the universe. You know the same way he alienated a potion of his audience with Jar Jar. George figured people would love Jar Jar. Just look at the interviews he had leading up to the release of TPM. He spoke about Jar Jar and how he was a marvel of modern CG and great character. Then TPM comes out and no person on Earth that had completed puberty enjoyed Jar Jar. Perhaps Jar Jar was a modern CG masterpiece, but I never noticed because I was still trying to recover from the fact that he was an insult to the audience.

I would like to give Lucas the benefit of a doubt, but after Greedo I can’t. If Lucas was willing to change a piece of Film History because his feelings on violence have changed I’m not going to put it past him to make a dig at a less than popular President.


"Look, going good against bashers/gushers is one thing. Going good against the living? That's something else."
- Darth-Adroit

“I also thought George could be turned back to the good side. It couldn't be done. He is more CGI now than story. Twisted and evil.”
- Darth-Adroit
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Originally posted by: Mielr

If he REALLY wanted to please us, he'd do what Spielberg, Cameron, and so many other directors have done- he'd give us BOTH versions of the OT in beautiful, anamorphic DVD transfers, and let US choose which ones we want to watch. I think his pathological desire to relegate the OOT to second-class-citizen status, outweighs even his desire for $$$. (IMO)

Hmm, yes I agree, but based upon his own statements, Lucas believes that we are an insignifigant minority. He truly and actually wonders if the OT on DVD would even make a profit. Just think about that for two seconds! Those are not the words of a healthy mind who simply acts out his disdain for OT fans. He's insane.


Originally posted by: Darth-Adroit

I just don’t see anyway it could be taken as anything but a dig at the President. I also think that Lucas figured it would slide past the casual viewer, appeal to his buddies like Spielberg and he figured those “astute” enough to catch the jab would either agree with him or not be in the theatre to begin with.

Let me stress what I said the last time I brought up this subject just so I can be clear on my motives. I’m a moderate and an Independent I’m not a big fan of the President, but I don’t think he’s Hitler either. I don’t have a horse in this race politically speaking. I can assure you that Lucas thinks little of the President or those that support him. That being the case I think he “misunderestimated” (to use a Bushism) both those with differing political views and the general audience.

I don’t think he alienated a portion of his audience on purpose. I think he alienated a portion of his audience because he’s out of touch with the rest of the universe. You know the same way he alienated a potion of his audience with Jar Jar. George figured people would love Jar Jar. Just look at the interviews he had leading up to the release of TPM. He spoke about Jar Jar and how he was a marvel of modern CG and great character. Then TPM comes out and no person on Earth that had completed puberty enjoyed Jar Jar. Perhaps Jar Jar was a modern CG masterpiece, but I never noticed because I was still trying to recover from the fact that he was an insult to the audience.

I would like to give Lucas the benefit of a doubt, but after Greedo I can’t. If Lucas was willing to change a piece of Film History because his feelings on violence have changed I’m not going to put it past him to make a dig at a less than popular President.


Well, I personally am a supporter of the president and I do not believe that line can be seen as a valid criticism for George Bush unless you're someone who is very stupid and/or crazy. Though you do make a good point that GL could have been coming from on of those two points of view when writing that line. But, either way, I'm not worried about it. It's a bit futile to spend any time reading politics into an obviously illogical and ridiculous movie.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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Originally posted by: Tiptup

Well, I personally am a supporter of the president and I do not believe that line can be seen as a valid criticism for George Bush unless you're someone who is very stupid and/or crazy. Though you do make a good point that GL could have been coming from on of those two points of view when writing that line. But, either way, I'm not worried about it. It's a bit futile to spend any time reading politics into an obviously illogical and ridiculous movie.


You’re probably right. I just use it as a way to illustrate how far he’s strayed from what made Star Wars great. Story and dialog are secondary considerations compared to CG. I think the sad attempt at a political statement was done to pander to his little Hollywood buddies, perhaps because he believed it would better his odds at getting CG awards for ROTS. In the end even if that’s what it was it’s just the initial numbness of frostbite; a minor symptom of a much greater problem.

"Look, going good against bashers/gushers is one thing. Going good against the living? That's something else."
- Darth-Adroit

“I also thought George could be turned back to the good side. It couldn't be done. He is more CGI now than story. Twisted and evil.”
- Darth-Adroit
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I definitely agree with the "deranged" part, LOL, but I really think he has actual disdain for those of us who prefer the OOT. He can't stand us, because we're the only thing standing in the way of his effectively eliminating the OOT for good, which is what he wants.

I've noticed that too. He seems to take people's preference of the OOT almost as a personal insult.

If he REALLY wanted to please us, he'd do what Spielberg, Cameron, and so many other directors have done- he'd give us BOTH versions of the OT in beautiful, anamorphic DVD transfers, and let US choose which ones we want to watch. I think his pathological desire to relegate the OOT to second-class-citizen status, outweighs even his desire for $$$. (IMO)


Well, as you said, he's softening. And the upcoming release seems to be something of a moment of truth for him, and it looks like he finally wants an answer to his question. It seems that he's convinced himself that because he preferes the SEs, everyone does, and that people who don't are a small minority of whiny fanboys. I bet that the sales of the September release will come as a real shock to him. And Cameron did not give us an anamorphic version of either cut of his underrated classic The Abyss. At least not yet. When Lucas sees the demands for the OOT come this September (and, thanks to the members of this site and hopefully others, has copies of the SEs lying on his desk with not from people saying that they do not want them), the winds of change will slowly begin to shift further. We are gaining ground. Let us not give up the battle now.

“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one.”

Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death

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I personally prefer the Special Editions myself but it's definately unfair to want to bury one version of your film because they don't "represent" what you originally wanted to make your films like. I hope the September releases are a step in the right direction. I have no doubt that with the numerous purchases that he will eventually cave and release stand alone OOT DVD's in the future. There are two editions of the "Special Editions", don't you think he'll cave and bring out the OOT? I mean he can't decide if one version of his film is the definitive version or the other. My good friend actually believes George will re-release version after version of the same movies for as long as it makes him money.
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Originally posted by: garethxxgod
I personally prefer the Special Editions myself but it's definately unfair to want to bury one version of your film because they don't "represent" what you originally wanted to make your films like. I hope the September releases are a step in the right direction. I have no doubt that with the numerous purchases that he will eventually cave and release stand alone OOT DVD's in the future. There are two editions of the "Special Editions", don't you think he'll cave and bring out the OOT? I mean he can't decide if one version of his film is the definitive version or the other. My good friend actually believes George will re-release version after version of the same movies for as long as it makes him money.


He's proven that time and time again. Thanks for joining us even if you do prefer the SEs.

“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one.”

Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death

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He's proven that time and time again. Thanks for joining us even if you do prefer the SEs.


I appreciate not only the welcome, but the fact that you haven't insulted me for my preference. While a majority of SE fans probably wouldn't care about the release of the OOT in better quality I don't see how George couldn't. It's not as if movies have never come out with varying editions in them. That's a market that he's only now attempting to dabble in, let's hope he gets his feet wet enough to want to go all the way and meet fan demand.
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Of course we wouldn't insult you. I can only understand your point of view to an extent, but we're not crazy fascists like some other board whose name I won't mention. We only attack people who come here telling us how crazy we are and other such insults.

So welcome, and I hope you have a great time!

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Yeah, welcome to OT.com, you crazy special edition loving psycho!!


Just kidding.

War does not make one great.

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Originally posted by: garethxxgod
He's proven that time and time again. Thanks for joining us even if you do prefer the SEs.


I appreciate not only the welcome, but the fact that you haven't insulted me for my preference. While a majority of SE fans probably wouldn't care about the release of the OOT in better quality I don't see how George couldn't. It's not as if movies have never come out with varying editions in them. That's a market that he's only now attempting to dabble in, let's hope he gets his feet wet enough to want to go all the way and meet fan demand.


Welcome gaethxxgod.

It’s great to have you aboard even if I disagree with your preference of the SE. Perhaps you could help me understand what you like about the Special Editions. I know a few fans of the SE, but they are primarily very young viewers and can’t really articulate their feelings. I’m not trying to put you on the spot here; I just really want to know what features you enjoy. I can imagine an alternate universe where I would’ve really liked the SE. If George had made the OOT and the SEOT available on DVD in the same set, with the OOT getting top billing and the SE as a special feature on the second disk. In a scenario like that I could’ve been a little more objective about the SE. I would’ve seen them as a further development of what George wanted when he made the movies. That was the way I viewed the SE when I saw them in theatres. Now I see them as an object lesson in why revisionism is a detriment to our society.


"Look, going good against bashers/gushers is one thing. Going good against the living? That's something else."
- Darth-Adroit

“I also thought George could be turned back to the good side. It couldn't be done. He is more CGI now than story. Twisted and evil.”
- Darth-Adroit
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Amen!

After all, special editions belong with other special features on disc 2. Isn't that special?

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Originally posted by: garethxxgod
He's proven that time and time again. Thanks for joining us even if you do prefer the SEs.


I appreciate not only the welcome, but the fact that you haven't insulted me for my preference. While a majority of SE fans probably wouldn't care about the release of the OOT in better quality I don't see how George couldn't. It's not as if movies have never come out with varying editions in them. That's a market that he's only now attempting to dabble in, let's hope he gets his feet wet enough to want to go all the way and meet fan demand.


I'm with you! And I certainly have no problem with your preferences. I respect people who like the SEs and the PT, I just want a high quality copy of the OOT that I can watch at home and show my children and my children's children. Your preferences are proof that Lucas is alienating even the fans who prefer his vision by his attitude as a whole. As I've said, Lucas's comments in the MTV interview were very revealing, and hopefully indicative of things to come. In any case, even SE fans have no reason to be satisfied with the controversial mix on the SE trilogy boxed set, the infamous color changing light saber and other mistakes, and the controversial edge-enhancement on the TPM DVD. Your preference for the SEs just means that we've got someone who can help us communicate with the other side . Thanks for joining us. We need all the help we can get. After the announcement of the non-anamorphic DVDs, it appears that fupport increased rather than waned. We are gaining ground in the battle, and this is just another nail in the coffin to make fans work harder than ever to preserve the OOT, which is the exact opposite what Lucas hoped to accomplish with this release.

“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one.”

Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death

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wow. Again, thank you guys for the welcome. I appreciate it. I can't assume to know which board Gaffer Tape is referring to, but if it's that one highly publicized movie discussion board then I tend to agree....apparently being a "true" Star Wars fan is weighed upon how much you like or dislike the SE or PT or OOT, whichever brand of koolaid you prefer...but I'll say no more

The cause of getting the OOT on DVD has never been a problem for me, so I understood that part of the cause and I am all for the releases. I just never understood why people complained about the quality of the product coming out. Infact I still don't to a degree, I'll be the first to say that I'm one of those "easy going" type of movie viewers where I don't need to be totally impressed by the crystal clear imagery to still enjoy the product. I own early 80's VHS copies of the OOT on VHS and that's always been fine for me, but someone not to long ago put it into perspective that with no OOT on DVD, how would it ever be preserved? Finally they were putting it out on DVD, I figured the issue would be over, I was just as excited as anyone....then I found out about the rumblings about the quality. However I must say when I first watched the 2004 editions I blown away by the clearity, which does help to understand the WHY of fans wanting a better produced OOT DVD release. So answer me this, is a beefed up (in terms of picture quality, anamorphic etc) a must for you because you just want that better quality picture or because you want the same treatement the SE got for the OOT or both? Is it a respect issue with you, ie. you are in favour of it because George treats the OOT and it's fans like second citizens? Like I've stated, bare with me here cause I'd be fine with a not so great version of the OOT, but why do you guys or atleast some of you want this better version?

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Welcome to the OT boards! Finally a special edition fan who sees OUR side of the arguement. You're a rare breed.

And in answer to your question, we just want Lucas to treat the OOT with the dignity he gives the SE. And we'll watch a lower quality version if we have too, clarity really isn't the number one priority. We want the version we see as the best to be out in a good format that we can view. That's it.

Also, its funny to look at where a thread starts and where it gets to in two weeks.
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