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Fantasia - 35mm Project (Help Needed) (a WIP) — Page 7

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TonyWDA said:

Oh, yeah, I wrote about this in a previous comment. The mono soundtrack is its own dedicated mix, not simply a downmix of the stereo soundtrack. It sourced the original score stems and, what sounds like, outtakes for that portion of The Nutcracker Suite. If you try lining up the stereo and mono mixes, both versions refuse to lock together without extensive editing.

And do you know maybe where is the surround mix in Thunderbean’s release comes from?

“After all, the best part of a holiday is perhaps not so much to be resting yourself, as to see all the other fellows busy working”
-The wind in the willows

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CMGF said:

Wonderful day! I also want to thank you Tony for your help with tsMuxer.

Anytime. Happy I could help. ✌️

CMGF said:

And do you know maybe where is the surround mix in Thunderbean’s release comes from?

That’s the 2000 DVD mix, but the front left, center, and right channels of that mix were spread across all 6 channels in Thunderbean’s release, which doesn’t reflect the mixing Stokowski intended at all. In his music sheets, Stokowski marked precisely where, in the auditorium, the score would pan to during very specific passages. The music was never supposed to fire from every speaker, all at once, for the entirety of the program.

“You missed! How could you miss-- he was THREE FEET in front of you!”
– Mushu

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I know they actually considered including the 4-track stereo mag. Wondering why they haven’t. But it was great to finally be able to watch Fantasia in 35mm for the first time. I might in the future sync it with the patched laserdisc audio used in Class316’s releases, but I hope this project will get released before that, because just like you mentioned the Thunderbean release doesn’t always look very good color-wise, and syncing it with the laserdisc audio sounds to me like a nightmare (it has a lot of missing frames! H E L P!!)

“After all, the best part of a holiday is perhaps not so much to be resting yourself, as to see all the other fellows busy working”
-The wind in the willows

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My guess is that whatever print they had for the mag audio was too physically compromised to pull a stable sound capture. I can tell you from personal experience that Fantasia’s a tough find in good condition w/ the mag stereo mix; more than half the time, the colors turned almost entirely to red, the print has vinegar syndrome, and/or each reel has warped to some degree. The funny thing is that Thunderbean’s release does use the mag mix for the interstitial segments, but that’s it, and those portions also spread the LCR channels across the six-channel field.

“You missed! How could you miss-- he was THREE FEET in front of you!”
– Mushu

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TonyWDA said:

My guess is that whatever print they had for the mag audio was too physically compromised to pull a stable sound capture. I can tell you from personal experience that Fantasia’s a tough find in good condition w/ the mag stereo mix; more than half the time, the colors turned almost entirely to red, the print has vinegar syndrome, and/or each reel has warped to some degree. The funny thing is that Thunderbean’s release does use the mag mix for the interstitial segments, but that’s it, and those portions also spread the LCR channels across the six-channel field.

Regarding the frames that are entirely red (and other color issues), wouldn’t it be possible to painstakingly fix each of these frames and adjust the color to where the problem is greatly alleviated?

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In the Thunderbean release? Theoretically, yes, you can try, but for shots like this…

It’s a little more complicated because you’d need to feather mask the area of the faded image and then color correct it to match the surrounding information, which itself needs to be corrected to remove the excessive green tint. The problem is that the mask won’t stay over the faded portion unless you stabilize the footage first, as it has a noticeable gate-weave baked into it, and since the severity of that weave varies from scene to scene, one pass is unlikely to cut it. And this is all without a better print to keep pulling up for reference to ensure color accuracy, so what exactly would you (general “you”) be correcting the footage to?

So yeah, not impossible, per se, but it’s a lot of effort that, thankfully, won’t be necessary— at least not for this project. I can tell you this, though: if I had no other choice, I’d exhaust everything I suggested in the last paragraph.

“You missed! How could you miss-- he was THREE FEET in front of you!”
– Mushu

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Sounds like your version is a huge improvement over Thunderbean’s - absolutely, this project is the one I’m most waiting to watch on the internet. Fantasia is in desperate need of a restoration like this, video and audio audio wise, for sure.

“After all, the best part of a holiday is perhaps not so much to be resting yourself, as to see all the other fellows busy working”
-The wind in the willows

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Never saw Fantasia before, I’ll wait for this version to be released before I see it.