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Expanded Universe Unacceptance

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This has been going on for nearly three decades I suppose since Splinter of the Mind's Eye While I've personally not read that book there is a Wikipedia page obviously with the description. The premise is fascinating in that it transitions ANH into ESB. Luke and Leia pair up to meet new enemies/allies on a planet filled with swamps (Han Solo doesn't make an appearance). There's a plotpoint that might be considered a MacGuffen (?) called the Kiaburr crystal which didn't make it into the final cut of Star Wars. All interesting stuff here.

Then I guess LucasArts or whoever commissioned more and more writers to elaborate on the Star Wars universe and further convolute the happenings of the Galactic Civil War, The New Republic, and most recently and to some extent back then The Clone Wars.

Now my familiarity with the EU comes not from reading any of the novels or comics, but through word of mouth, Star Wars databank, Wikipedia, etc. Most of the premises for these things are sometimes entertaining in themselves. But the EU has acquired a bunch of hostility from fans since (assuming) it first was spawned. What do you personally as a Star Wars enthusiast think about the Expanded Universe?
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I really like Timothy Zahn's work as I think he is generally a very good writer and has done,in my opinion,the best work in the EU.Outside of Zahn I am underwhelmed by the quality of work.

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There was more than just Splinter of the Mind's Eye--there was a trilogy of Han Solo Adventure books in the late 70's, and then a Lando trilogy, i think in 1983, and the Marvel comic series began in 1977 i think.

Most of these kept the spirit and style of the original film, and were generally regarded as well-done expansions by fans in general. When Timothy Zahn's trilogy came out in 1991-1993, it was similar: most who read them really enjoyed them, and felt they remained faithful to the films, more or less. I mean this thing was huge, it was a smash hit, and it stayed on the New York Times Bestseller list for weeks and weeks--i dont think any EU novel has managed that since.

It was only in the mid and late 90's when the volume of material grew rapidly that a splintering of acceptance emerged. By 1995 there was like two dozen novels and an equal amount of simultaneously-running comic series. When it was just three or four novels things could remain faithful to the film and not seem tired--but by the mid-90's, the material within the EU was building its own exclusive universe that was slowly having less and less relation to the one portrayed in the movies. On top of that, while Lucasfilm was lucky in that the pre-1992 EU was generally decently-written, with the massive growth afterward the quality began to splinter again--some was well-done, much was adequet, and some of it was, frankly, horrible. It simply inevitable that these things would happen, its just a matter of numbers really. So thats where the EU splintering stems from. The PT was an extension of this, and of course the PT EU extended things even further. It has now resulted in a fictional universe that is often of a nature and style that is totally opposed to the original films, and so many people disregard it.

Personally, i love SOTME and the Zahn trilogy--SOTME is inconsistent with the original trilogy overall but it really does feel like a sequel to Star Wars, to the original film; this of course is because it was written as such, before any of the sequels were made. Similarly, Zahn's trilogy was written after the OT--it was the first post-ROTJ fiction and it really does capture the feel and style of the OT, and its expansions and elaborations feel like natural continuations of where ROTJ left off. Some of the EU afterwards is okay, but the vast majority of it is unappealing and poorly written, and the sheer quantity has now built a world that is totally unfamiliar to me.
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I love the classics, those being the Brian Daley Han Solo books, Splinter of the Minds's Eye, (the sequel that was never filmed) and the Marvel comics. Back in the day they satisfied that hunger for more Star Wars. (There was no "Extended Universe" moniker back then.) And after the Lando books there simply wasn't anything else to read once the Marvel comic ended a few years after Jedi was released. It seems silly now, but Starlog magazine actually posed the question "Is Star Wars fandom dead?" around 1986 partly because there was literally nothing going on.

Now there's almost a glut of material to choose from. But it's like a big buffet table, you can just take the stuff you really like. I've enjoyed the "Infinities" comics for taking the plotlines of the films into "What If?" territory, and "Tag and Bink" because it has fun with the SW universe like the famous "Troops" video did. The rest I don't have time to keep up with. And it's possible to enjoy Star Wars without knowing the backstory of every Mos Eisely cantina patron.

Some fans do take the EU a little too seriously. There was a lot of anger over the death of a beloved character in Vector Prime.
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I tried rereading Splinter recently. I kept getting grossed out when Luke would periodically ponder how beautiful Leia was.

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The chief problem with EU was the oversaturation of themes.

- Luke, Han, Leia, Chewie, the droids, and all the others embroiled in yet another serious threat to the New Republic.

- The emergence of a new villain. With these, there were slight variations: one time, it might be a high-ranking Imperial officer. Another time, it might be a rogue force-user. Or it could be someone threatening Han and Leia's children.

- And of course, there's always some superweapon involved; it may be a Death Star-like machine, or it may be some unbelievable new Star Destroyer twice the size of Vader's.

- Storylines broken into a trilogy of books. There was (not to praise or criticize the quality, just listing the ones I remember) The Thrawn Trilogy, The Black Fleet Trilogy, The Corellian Trilogy, The Bounty Hunter Wars Trilogy, The Han Solo Trilogy (by Crispin), the Jedi Academy Trilogy...and again, I may be leaving some out. These are just the trilogies I remember. I think the authors tried to connect their work to the OT by structuring the stories in this way. I thought it was cheap to do so.

I liked a lot of the books and generally preferred the books that resisted the same old themes listed above. In fact, one forgettable book, The Crystal Star, was entertaining in one way - Luke and Han had been travelling together and were getting on each other's nerves. I couldn't tell you anything else about that book, but that part was pretty cool.

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Originally posted by: Zion
I haven't read any Star Wars books or comics....EU really isn't my cup of tea.


That's it for me also. Although, I've always been tempted to read Splinter Of The Mind's Eye. It was a really big deal when I was a kid. There was only Star Wars. Suddenly, there was a Star Wars book - something else from that world! The younger fans on here have no idea what that was like for us. There wasn't media saturation\internet\global connectivity\downloading\fan sites\official websites\forums\etc,etc. We had a film - that's it. When that book came out, it was a big deal.

Seems so inocent now.

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This might seem off-topic, but does anyone know how much a first printing of SOTME goes for?
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Originally posted by: crazyrabbits
This might seem off-topic, but does anyone know how much a first printing of SOTME goes for?


Not much, even if it is mint. There were, after all, millions of copies produced.
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Man, that's no lie. There are tons of original copies. Most are just a few bucks. I'll pick up a copy. If it's crap, I'll toss it.
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Originally posted by: AnchorheadThat's it for me also. Although, I've always been tempted to read Splinter Of The Mind's Eye. It was a really big deal when I was a kid. There was only Star Wars. Suddenly, there was a Star Wars book - something else from that world! The younger fans on here have no idea what that was like for us. There wasn't media saturation\internet\global connectivity\downloading\fan sites\official websites\forums\etc,etc. We had a film - that's it. When that book came out, it was a big deal.

Seems so inocent now.


Even when the Thrawn trilogy came out, it was a big deal. The Thrawn Trilogy was the first thing Star Wars to come out in years. It was great. Then Shadows of the Empire came out, and it was good too. Then things started downhill,and they've seem to wear out the EU, with the continual supply of books, comics, etc. most of which are of poor quality, a rehash of something else, or just plain ridiculous.
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Personally I enjoyed Shadows of the Empire... I even bought the video game and the soundtrack...
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I think most of the hostility came from the "superweapon of the week". Every Star Wars book that came out, for the longest time, was nothing but yet another remnant of the Empire with yet another superweapon. That gets tiring real fast.

After that, the single most impactful event of all EU happened. Chewie was killed. That was done to "make Star Wars more real". That turned off yet another large group of fans. I think that's what turned me off. I read it through, and it's a good book, I just don't like the whole idea of "making it more real". If I want real, I'll turn on the evening news. When I watch Star Wars or read a book or comic, I want to escape. I want to watch (or read) my favorite heroes struggle with something and then come out on top. Who cares if you know they're not going to die? Nobody cares anyway unless they release a book with "A key player in the Star Wars universe dies!" I think that's become the "superweapon of the week". When I hear about a major character dying, I just say "Oh yeah, who'd they kill this time?" What's the point of making it "more real" if there's no more shock value in it?

Anyway, the Thrawn Trilogy is still hailed as the best. The NJO series was pretty good too, I just don't like it on principal (I don't like investing time in a bunch of characters just to see them all killed off). I personally don't like the way the NJO ended (no, I haven't fully read them all), mostly because I think it turned into a political commentary of the last 50 years instead of staying in the realm of Sci-Fi.

I do read all the comics though. They have a tendency not to kill major characters in the comics. That makes them a lot funner to read
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I agree about the killing of Chewie thing. I never precieved it as trying to make the series more real, but rather as the "super weapon of the week thing", that was pretty obvious from the beginning. They even marketed off of that. I think it was in the SW.com email that they made a big deal about Salvatori (sp?) killing off Chewbacca with Lucas' blessing. The article talked about how Salv. decided that it was Chewie's time to go and when he asked George what he thought he told him he liked the idea, go with it. That is very much marketing, and I am sure that was much more effective than saying that this novel features a new super duper, ultra, mega Star Destroyer 5150 times larger than Vader's and with 27 laser cannons, each able to destroy planets 88% more efficiently than the Deathstar.

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That's interesting, especially when he (Salvatori) said the exact opposite everywhere else. He said at Comic-Con that when he was commissioned to do the book and they told him he had to kill Chewie, that he basically gave the check back to them. Once they had him convinced that it had to be done and that Lucas had blessed it, he told them that he would do it his way. They were fine with that, so we have the heroic death.

The only reason I mention that they wanted to make it more real is, again, because the publishers themselves said that. Again, at Comic-Con, they said Star Wars didn't really have any drama since you always knew the main characters would survive. By killing Chewie, they were telling the readers that no one is safe so anyone can die. That way, if Luke got into some kind of peril, you couldn't automatically assume he'd find a way out because anything was now possible. Hence, making it more real.

I honestly don't remember seeing anywhere which character was killed when Vector Prime first came out. All I heard was that a major character had died. I had to search Google to find out. I'm a slow reader, so I wouldn't have found out until a year later at the least.
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I guess it all depends on where you go on the net. I was seeing "Chewie dies!" plastered on IRC channels and message boards the way Harry Potter book spoilers tend to be. Chewie's demise made the cover of the fan club magazine around the same time too.

The thing is, they can only pull the major character death card once before it becomes a cheap stunt. Ask Marvel or DC comics.

The post Vector Prime Chewie comic soured me a bit on the EU. I don't really want to see our heroes that miserable. It's too much like real life. Remember when Star Wars was supposed to be "fun"?
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So who was it that insisted that Chewie die? That is interesting. Anyway, Chewie had always been kind of a background character. He has always kind of been the family pet. Killing off Luke, Leia, Han, or even Artoo or Threepio would have been a bigger deal. Chewie is actually the very logical choice. If they did it so we would be afraid they might kill Luke, why not go the extra mile and actually kill Luke and let Chewie live. Killing a secondary character doesn't equate killing off the hero.

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Originally posted by: C3PX
So who was it that insisted that Chewie die? That is interesting. Anyway, Chewie had always been kind of a background character. He has always kind of been the family pet. Killing off Luke, Leia, Han, or even Artoo or Threepio would have been a bigger deal. Chewie is actually the very logical choice. If they did it so we would be afraid they might kill Luke, why not go the extra mile and actually kill Luke and let Chewie live. Killing a secondary character doesn't equate killing off the hero.


I believe Luke was off limits per Lucas. I don't remember what the reason was for Leia and Han, but I believe it had something to do with them being more important. They basically tried to find a character that would have an effect on everyone. Chewie was picked and Lucas approved. It was up to the author to decide how he died. It was the publishers that insisted a major character die. They felt that there wasn't enough drama in the books anymore. They wanted us, the readers, to actually be afraid because a major character could die.

Artoo and Threepio weren't felt to have enough weight. They're simply droids. Yes, they've been around for a while and everyone's attached to them, but would their "deaths" have the same impact that another character's death would? Probably not.

As far as I can tell, they haven't killed any other major characters (or should I say the big 3, Luke, Leia, and Han). They've killed off major EU characters (I believe Jacen Solo was killed or was it Anakin Solo?), but they haven't killed off any other movie characters. Luke is dead in the new Legacy comic, but it's set in the distant future and he died of natural causes, he wasn't killed.

Again, it goes back to the previous comment. It was done to make Star Wars "more real". Star Wars is suppose to be fun. If we want real, we'll watch the evening news.
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well since star wars was created for a sense of fun i hardly beleive people cannot except the EU, because it allows people to have more fun in a universe they love, with characters they love.

far too many people take star wars too seriously rather than at face Value, a series of fantasy films in the vein of flash gordon and buck rogers serials its not serious religious dogma, its for fun.

i would agree with Archie Goodwin who said star wars was the best comic book movie not based on a comic book, lol

I sure i am not the only one who has had more fun reading eu comics and novels than watching the prequels.

The sequel stories though not by George now in my mind take the place of the cancelled sequel trilogy, i could care less if he wants to canonize them or not. I fell in love with star wars for the adventures of luke skywalker, not the vader saga.

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Originally posted by: skyjedi2005
well since star wars was created for a sense of fun i hardly beleive people cannot except the EU, because it allows people to have more fun in a universe they love, with characters they love.

far too many people take star wars too seriously rather than at face Value, a series of fantasy films in the vein of flash gordon and buck rogers serials its not serious religious dogma, its for fun.



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