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Evil Empire... — Page 9

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No I don't look to movies for answers. However, this one just posited a good idea.

And you can't tell me that all these denominations constantly bickering back and forth about interpretations of God's lessons and the Bible and that a Catholic will go to Heaven and a Protestant won't, et al, are not completely ruining what religion is truly about... the worship of God (be it God as we know Him, Allah, etc.). How are we to choose if each group says that they are the right one?
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
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Kevin A
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Originally posted by: ricarleite
RRS-1980, who wrote it? May I quote it? I wanted to know the author, was it you?

Unfortunately, I have no idea. I found it on other forum and I have a feeling that the guy who copy-pasted it has no idea, either.
I saw the original theatrical release of the Old Trilogy on the big screen and I'm proud of it...
How did I accomplish that (considering my age) is my secret...
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There is an attempt by some in our "educational facilities" here in the USA to revise history and/or discredit America as a nation by pointing out atrocites like the fact that certain people massacred Indians. As if my generation is responsible for those deeds. I hope we can agree that modern Americans aren't responsible for those things.


are you seriously - honestly - telling me that just because America is being discredited, that one shouldnt tell history as it was. the next thing you will tell me that the Americans never dropped two atomic bombs on japanese soil?
"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent."
Qui-Gon Jinn (R.I.P.)
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YOU MEAN THEY DID????????




I saw the original theatrical release of the Old Trilogy on the big screen and I'm proud of it...
How did I accomplish that (considering my age) is my secret...
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yeah but they helped repair japan after the war and they had good political reasons to drop the bombs. The US wanted to end WWII quickly because they did not want the soviets to get involved in the pacific. and so they dicided to force japan to surrender quickly. if the soviets had gotten involved they would probably have taken over japan. and that was something that the US did nto want to happen.

P.S. chaltab i reply to your blurb (no pun intended) next week i have an IB exam tomorrow so i cant give you a proper response at this time.
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if the soviets had gotten involved they would probably have taken over japan. and that was something that the US did nto want to happen.


and that was reason enough to commit crimes against humanity by killing 500,000 + japanese? i dont think so, that is after-rationalizing
"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent."
Qui-Gon Jinn (R.I.P.)
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Actually, both the Japanese and Americans have admitted that if the bombs weren't dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the continued fighting and the napalm attacks would have resulted in much higher death tolls among Japanese soldiers/civilians and American soldiers than the bombs did. Some Japanese have gone so far as to say that the bombs saved them because their government was willing to fight to the very end and had even already armed civilians to fight back. Everyone was expendable. I know this sounds like U.S. propagandizing, but it was even stated by Japanese officials. Does this warrant the bombing? I dunno. With how much land and people were being wiped out by napalm attacks, I'm afraid to think of what Japan would be like today if the fighting had continued on the scale it was.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
-------------------------
Kevin A
Webmaster/Primary Cynic
kapgar.typepad.com
kapgar.com
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Napalm... I love the smell of napalm in the morning.

Princess Leia: I happen to like nice men.
Han Solo: I'm a nice man.

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Okay Robert Duvall. Get back in your Huey and fly away to the sound of Wagner, okay?
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
-------------------------
Kevin A
Webmaster/Primary Cynic
kapgar.typepad.com
kapgar.com
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Ta ta datata, ta ta datata, ta ta daTAta, datataTAAA....

"It scares the sh*t out of them"
I saw the original theatrical release of the Old Trilogy on the big screen and I'm proud of it...
How did I accomplish that (considering my age) is my secret...
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It would scare the shit out of me, too. Especially the thought of that sound system. If the music drowned out the approach of the helicopters, I'd be running for the hills just to save my damn hearing!
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
-------------------------
Kevin A
Webmaster/Primary Cynic
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kapgar.com
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Remember the cameo from "Hot Shots Deux" when the two Sheens meet on the river?
I saw the original theatrical release of the Old Trilogy on the big screen and I'm proud of it...
How did I accomplish that (considering my age) is my secret...
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Sorry, never saw Deux. Thought the first part was only decent at best. Stayed away from the second.

Just dawned on me that Jon Cryer was in the first Hot Shots and now he and Sheen are both in Two and a Half Men.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
-------------------------
Kevin A
Webmaster/Primary Cynic
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kapgar.com
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Theres a nice lightsaber battle in "Hot Shots Deux" between Saddan and the president, I belive. Ah, the 90s.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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Oh dear sweet mother of all that's holy... say it ain't so. Prez v. Saddam in a lightsaber duel? Aye aye aye.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
-------------------------
Kevin A
Webmaster/Primary Cynic
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That's not all: Saddam gets destroyed and breaks like a Chinese vase... but the parts become liquid metal and he slowly forms his body again... so this had to be made some time after T2 hit the screens

During the lightsaber duel Saddam has sore throat (and bad breath, too!) which makes him sound almost like... James Earl Jones
I saw the original theatrical release of the Old Trilogy on the big screen and I'm proud of it...
How did I accomplish that (considering my age) is my secret...
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Originally posted by: Bossk
Actually, both the Japanese and Americans have admitted that if the bombs weren't dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the continued fighting and the napalm attacks would have resulted in much higher death tolls among Japanese soldiers/civilians and American soldiers than the bombs did. Some Japanese have gone so far as to say that the bombs saved them because their government was willing to fight to the very end and had even already armed civilians to fight back. Everyone was expendable. I know this sounds like U.S. propagandizing, but it was even stated by Japanese officials. Does this warrant the bombing? I dunno. With how much land and people were being wiped out by napalm attacks, I'm afraid to think of what Japan would be like today if the fighting had continued on the scale it was.


this is true, the japanese were very proud and they would have fought to the end if the bombs had not been dropped. trust me the world would be a very very dangerous place if those bombs had not been dropped. yes they killed in excess of 300 000 people but if the war had continued not only would japan suffer immence cauluties, but also they would loss there freedom. you saw what happened with the USSR they did not give back the land they conquered the same what have happened with japan if they had gotten involved. And the difference then was that america helped rebuild and repair the damage they caused.
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The bombings were not necessary. Historical studies proved Japan was ready to surrender, and to sign a deal. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were one of the most bloody and unnecessary slaughters ever. I've read lots of stories about it, and even posted a link about it once (it's on the chernobil thread), and it has always made me sick to my stomach.

I have a 1947 magazine I bought for about 2 dollars some time ago, on the cover it has a woman dressed in white, she has wings and has the word "pax" (peace in latin) writen on her, and she striped to a bomb being thrown. And it says "only when the last human being is killed, then we'll achieve true peace". As you all know, from my "insane liberal anarchist talks" on this thread, I don't agree with that, but unfortunally that's how many people see it.

OK enough, I've said I'd never post here again.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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im not quite sure that the japanese were grateful for the bomb. i think that japan would have surrendered late in '45, but the world/usa wanted to finish the war as quickly as possible - understandable and noble - but droppingnot one but two bombs was a bit overkill.

"When i say its safe to surf, i say its safe to surf!"
"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent."
Qui-Gon Jinn (R.I.P.)
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There were two main reasons for the development and dropping of the bombs.

1- The germans were developing their own weapon.
2- The americans needed to show the world, and by world I mean the USSR, their new nuclear power.

After the war, the soviets and the americans started a game of "hungry hungry hippo" on the german scientists, who held the rocket technology developed for the V1. Yadda-yadda-yadda, Yuri Gagarin and Neil Armstrong.

Even now, 60 years later, you can still smell burned flesh in some parts of Hiroshima.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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havent been there, so i wouldnt know.
"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent."
Qui-Gon Jinn (R.I.P.)
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Me neither, altough I always wanted to visit Japan (and of course Hiroshima and Nagasaki). I've read a lot about it. One day I'll go to Hiroshima, and tell you guys all about it.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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Yet more people died during the Napalm attacks than during the atomic bombing. U.S. soldiers were on the Japanese mainland and were being charged by civilians (women and children) armed with guns and swords and no idea whatsoever about how to use them.

For every piece of evidence claiming they may surrender, there was a piece claiming they wouldn't. No one knows for sure. No one can say what would happen because none of us were members of the Japanese government to truly know what they were thinking, were we?

Overkill, yes. I agree. But, like I said, I'm afraid to think of what Japan would be like today if the fighting had continued.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
-------------------------
Kevin A
Webmaster/Primary Cynic
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kapgar.com
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U.S. soldiers were on the Japanese mainland and were being charged by civilians (women and children) armed with guns and swords and no idea whatsoever about how to use them.


wouldnt americans do it too if they were being invaded? no matter how justified the invasion is.
"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent."
Qui-Gon Jinn (R.I.P.)
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But forcing them to against their will? Some of these people were supposedly terrified and looked completely clueless. There's only so much you do if you value your life.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
-------------------------
Kevin A
Webmaster/Primary Cynic
kapgar.typepad.com
kapgar.com