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I heard a very interesting discussion on the Glenn Beck radio program the other day. The gist of it is as follows:

According to the story, a man in the UK tested positive for HIV on multiple occasions, but now for some reason he is totally free of the disease. The doctors are baffled, and feel that he may hold the key to curing the disease. The catch is this: He refuses to give his blood or DNA for testing.

Now, this poses an interesting set of questions:

1. Are you not the ultimate authority over your body? Do you not have the right to say who gets your blood and DNA?
2. Does this person not have a duty to submit given that he may hold the key to curing millions of people?

What are your thoughts?
Nemo me impune lacessit

http://ttrim.blogspot.com
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The needs of the many outweigh the wants of a few (in this case one).
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Hmm, interesting. I do believe that you should have the ultimate say over what is or isn't done to your body. But if this man could potentially hold the cire to AIDS, should a sample be taken by force to meet the 'needs of the many'? I'm incline dto say yes, because of the possible benefits, but, ultimately, from a rights point of view, I would have to sya no. The guy must be a real dick to refuse though.

War does not make one great.

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Originally posted by: Yoda Is Your Father
Hmm, interesting. I do believe that you should have the ultimate say over what is or isn't done to your body. But if this man could potentially hold the cire to AIDS, should a sample be taken by force to meet the 'needs of the many'? I'm incline dto say yes, because of the possible benefits, but, ultimately, from a rights point of view, I would have to sya no. The guy must be a real dick to refuse though.


This is definitely an interesting story. The next step in the discussion was that they should try everything to get him to cooperate, including saying "We'll give you a dollar (or Pound Sterling) for every person we innoculate. At that point if he still doesn't go along with it he should be compelled to assist. However, what happens if they say to him "Well, yes we took your blood and DNA, but we didn't quite get what we were looking for. We want you to stay with us from now on, because we need more and can't risk losing you. You'll be staying in this luxury apartment, but you can never leave". What would that mean? Very, very tricky.

Nemo me impune lacessit

http://ttrim.blogspot.com
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It's his body... his decision. Plain and simple.

"Needs of the many outweigh the wants of the few"???? Where do you draw the line on that one? If you give science the authority to overthrow his decision, then what's to stop them or anyone else in the future from saying that your death would benefit humanity as a whole? Fuck that. It's my body.

Don't get me wrong, I think the guy is being selfish, no question. That or he's hiding something (the fact that his "miraculous" cure is a sham?). If all I had to do was give blood or plasma, hell yes, sign me up. Let me be the start of the cure of one of mankind's worst current medical scourges.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
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Kevin A
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hm this si very interesting indeed, i remember a couple years ago i took a really good Biology class inwhich we studied virus and looked at HIV specifically. he told us an interesting observation about europeans, in genral about 5% of the population of europe is immune to HIV because they do not have a certain receptor site on there T-Blood Cells. the lack of this receptor means that the HIV virus can't actually attack the body, i dont know anyting about how they test for HIV i thought it had to do with TAKEING a blood sample and counting the number of T-cells in the sample, (i know thats how they test for aids BTW you only technically have Aids if you are HIV positive and your T-cell count goes below a certain number per a certain amount of blood) but yeah if they have a seperate way of testing this immuneity then all that i said above may not be the case may be resposible. and if thats the case there is no need to get a blood sample.
as for whether its right or not, well as a species each and everyone of us has a responsiblity to care for one another, its actually the biggest problem that i see in the world today everyone is about the 'i' 'i for me or i for my city, or i for my country or i for my region' no one cares about what better for 'we as a race and a species, we could be great but we are not because there are so many selfish people in the world. and if this guy is with holding blood i think as a people we should withhold all the things we do for him. dont take his tax money and dont give him all the civil services that he gets, let him do what he wants but show him that if he can be selfish then so can the rest of the world. the british governemt doesnt have to take his tax money and give him all his rights and privilages. i am sure that if that was done this guy would be ready to give his blood freely after a week. when he finds that he cause drive his car around cause he would be tresspassing on public property, or when he needs healthcare he has to pay a fortune just to see the doctor. or if someone robs him then the cops wont say anything cause the law no longer applies to him since he doesnt pay the people that are resposible for enforsing it. ui know it sounds harsh but its is even more harsh that he wont even give a blood sample if it means curing one of the worst deseases ever.
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ok well then yeah its the people decision whether they still want to give him all the public services that are given to everyone, if this guy refuses to help the people why should the people help him. its not like they are asking for his life or to comite him to a life being poked and pronged they are asking for some blood to see if they can end the suffering of MILLIONS OF PEOPLE. if this guy care so little a bout people then why should the people care for him, let him keep his blood and his money and everything. but the people will keep the services that they give him, sounds fair to me. its a very harsh outlook but its is just rediculus that he wont give some blood to help the HUMAN RACE.
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Originally posted by: Shimraa
its not like they are asking for his life or to comite him to a life being poked and pronged they are asking for some blood to see if they can end the suffering of MILLIONS OF PEOPLE.


But that's just the problem. What if they cannot find the cure just by testing his blood? What's next? Poking and prodding to the point where the guy can no longer live his normal life and he effectively becomes a lab rat? That's no way to live. If his rights are violated to the point where they tell him he "must" donate blood, the trend will never stop. We will lose progressively greater amounts of rights until we are all living in a prison state with tags on our ears IDing us. I know this may be a melodramatic overinterpretation, but you can't possibly say there is no chance it could happen. Just because the guy is a fluke doesn't mean he should cede his right to life.

In all honesty, I think it's a sham and he's not really cured but is trying to cash in on media exposure.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
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Kevin A
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I am absolutely sure, and I can tell because I have seen this happen before, that this guy did, like, 1 test every week, and when one of those had a negative result (because they are not 100% accurate), he assumed to be cured, and absolutely refuses to do more tests because he wants to live thinking he got cured, maybe as some sort of a self-imposed placebo. I am absolutely positive that this is the case.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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Originally posted by: BosskIn all honesty, I think it's a sham and he's not really cured but is trying to cash in on media exposure.

I'm with Bossk on this one, in both respects. If we deprive this one individual of his right to privacy in his own body, we open a Pandora's box of ethical "excuses" to invade the privacy in the body.
This guy will eventually die of HIV related complications, but if he's not forthcoming, don't hold a gun to his head just because he's managing it better than most.

Princess Leia: I happen to like nice men.
Han Solo: I'm a nice man.

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Originally posted by: Bossk
Originally posted by: Shimraa
its not like they are asking for his life or to comite him to a life being poked and pronged they are asking for some blood to see if they can end the suffering of MILLIONS OF PEOPLE.


But that's just the problem. What if they cannot find the cure just by testing his blood? What's next? Poking and prodding to the point where the guy can no longer live his normal life and he effectively becomes a lab rat? That's no way to live. If his rights are violated to the point where they tell him he "must" donate blood, the trend will never stop. We will lose progressively greater amounts of rights until we are all living in a prison state with tags on our ears IDing us. I know this may be a melodramatic overinterpretation, but you can't possibly say there is no chance it could happen. Just because the guy is a fluke doesn't mean he should cede his right to life.

In all honesty, I think it's a sham and he's not really cured but is trying to cash in on media exposure.


what your saying is a different story, if that were the case then i would be on his side, by saying that he shouldnt even give a blood test is drawing a line too short. the line should be draw at the point where he feels he cannot live a normal life, askin blood will not prevent that. but in all seriousness if this guy had any ounce of love or care for a fellow man then he should give his blood. and if he doesnt care, well like i said society should show him the same love that he shows. that is all. you can draw a line but seriously dont get all dramatic bossk on well if we get blood where does it stop, cause its not one of those situation, he is an anomally and so there is not chance that scientist would dare take it as far as you are saying cause it just doesnt work like that in real world medical research. maybe in movies and what not but you dont get that in real life.

but as ric was saying HIV tests are not 100% accurate they can say your positive if your not or that your not positive if you are. he probably still has it.

but yeah like is said if this guys doesnt even show enough care that he would give a little bit of blood to better mankind or in attempt to better mankind well to hell him with him.

some one should go take this guy on a feild trip though a ward full of people dieing because of aids. show him people that are getting there brains eaten while they are still alive by bacteria that the body cant fight off(i believe this is call toxoplasmoisis, and almost everyone who has ever touched a cat has it but our immune system beats the shit outta it so its dormant in our bodies), should him images of people dieign cause they pricked there finger on a rusty peice of metal and cant fight off the infection cause they have AIDs show him the suffering that he is alowing to infringe, cause if he hold the cure to aids in his veins then all those deaths should be on his mind, he should haev to carry the deaths of the millions of people on his shoulders cause he will be responsible for them.
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Originally posted by: Shimraa
Originally posted by: Bossk
Originally posted by: Shimraa
its not like they are asking for his life or to comite him to a life being poked and pronged they are asking for some blood to see if they can end the suffering of MILLIONS OF PEOPLE.


But that's just the problem. What if they cannot find the cure just by testing his blood? What's next? Poking and prodding to the point where the guy can no longer live his normal life and he effectively becomes a lab rat? That's no way to live. If his rights are violated to the point where they tell him he "must" donate blood, the trend will never stop. We will lose progressively greater amounts of rights until we are all living in a prison state with tags on our ears IDing us. I know this may be a melodramatic overinterpretation, but you can't possibly say there is no chance it could happen. Just because the guy is a fluke doesn't mean he should cede his right to life.

In all honesty, I think it's a sham and he's not really cured but is trying to cash in on media exposure.


what your saying is a different story, if that were the case then i would be on his side, by saying that he shouldnt even give a blood test is drawing a line too short. the line should be draw at the point where he feels he cannot live a normal life, askin blood will not prevent that. but in all seriousness if this guy had any ounce of love or care for a fellow man then he should give his blood. and if he doesnt care, well like i said society should show him the same love that he shows. that is all. you can draw a line but seriously dont get all dramatic bossk on well if we get blood where does it stop, cause its not one of those situation, he is an anomally and so there is not chance that scientist would dare take it as far as you are saying cause it just doesnt work like that in real world medical research. maybe in movies and what not but you dont get that in real life.

but as ric was saying HIV tests are not 100% accurate they can say your positive if your not or that your not positive if you are. he probably still has it.

but yeah like is said if this guys doesnt even show enough care that he would give a little bit of blood to better mankind or in attempt to better mankind well to hell him with him.

some one should go take this guy on a feild trip though a ward full of people dieing because of aids. show him people that are getting there brains eaten while they are still alive by bacteria that the body cant fight off(i believe this is call toxoplasmoisis, and almost everyone who has ever touched a cat has it but our immune system beats the shit outta it so its dormant in our bodies), should him images of people dieign cause they pricked there finger on a rusty peice of metal and cant fight off the infection cause they have AIDs show him the suffering that he is alowing to infringe, cause if he hold the cure to aids in his veins then all those deaths should be on his mind, he should haev to carry the deaths of the millions of people on his shoulders cause he will be responsible for them.


I think what you need to keep in mind is that there's no guarantee that this person holds a cure. If they take it by force and it's a dead end, he's been violated and will carry it for the rest of his life. Where would he go in order to get his privacy back?

Nemo me impune lacessit

http://ttrim.blogspot.com
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New sub-topic: Genetic engineering. What do you think about the people who are lining up to be able to dictate what color their babies eyes are, or what sex they will be? This treads on very dangerous ground, IMO. This type of thing opens the door to the state eventually screening babies for "defects" and other issues.
Nemo me impune lacessit

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While I am not against research into genetics (I'm sure if I ever lost a leg I would be grateful for the ability to grow a new one) I agree with your analysis that we are on dangerous ground and could one day find ourselves in a society where 'inperfect' people are looked down on and maybe not even given the opportunity to be born in the first place. And by 'inperfect' I am talking about minor stuff bent noses and brown eyes. But that is an issue of human vanity and should not halt scientific progress that could help mankind if used sensibly. It is often said that Science is responsible for the means but not the ends, and I agree.

War does not make one great.

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Originally posted by: Shimraa
what your saying is a different story, if that were the case then i would be on his side, by saying that he shouldnt even give a blood test is drawing a line too short. the line should be draw at the point where he feels he cannot live a normal life, askin blood will not prevent that. but in all seriousness if this guy had any ounce of love or care for a fellow man then he should give his blood. and if he doesnt care, well like i said society should show him the same love that he shows. that is all. you can draw a line but seriously dont get all dramatic bossk on well if we get blood where does it stop, cause its not one of those situation, he is an anomally and so there is not chance that scientist would dare take it as far as you are saying cause it just doesnt work like that in real world medical research. maybe in movies and what not but you dont get that in real life.

but as ric was saying HIV tests are not 100% accurate they can say your positive if your not or that your not positive if you are. he probably still has it.

but yeah like is said if this guys doesnt even show enough care that he would give a little bit of blood to better mankind or in attempt to better mankind well to hell him with him.

some one should go take this guy on a feild trip though a ward full of people dieing because of aids. show him people that are getting there brains eaten while they are still alive by bacteria that the body cant fight off(i believe this is call toxoplasmoisis, and almost everyone who has ever touched a cat has it but our immune system beats the shit outta it so its dormant in our bodies), should him images of people dieign cause they pricked there finger on a rusty peice of metal and cant fight off the infection cause they have AIDs show him the suffering that he is alowing to infringe, cause if he hold the cure to aids in his veins then all those deaths should be on his mind, he should haev to carry the deaths of the millions of people on his shoulders cause he will be responsible for them.


But it's exactly the case. By forcing him to give a blood sample, you're invading his body against his will. A scientist may not cross the line, but I do not trust our government or any government for that matter to not cross the line in the name of finding a cure that will keep them from having to spend tax dollars on research into a disease that they may suddenly find a cure for. Can you honestly look at our government and say, "yeah, they'll be ethical about it"? I can't.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
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Kevin A
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I can't either. I can imagine this guy 'vanishing' and winding up in some underground X-files laboratory getting his balls sliced open by government scientists while a grey alien watches through a two way mirror while smoking a cigarette.

Ok, maybe not, but yeah, you open the door on this case and it could get nasty. The guy's still being incredibly selfish though, but it is his right to be selfish, like it or not, and when my right to be selfish or grumpy or happy or sad or to argue with Sage about politics or to watch the original theatrical cut of star wars is taken away from me, I'm gonna be pissed (although we don't know all the details - it could be that he has this rare condition that causes a little bit of his penis to crumble away every time his blood is drawn, or, more likely, he may have religious reserves. Maybe he's one of those guys who believes that AIDS is sent by God to get rid of the gays and blacks and therefore science has no place interfering with God's worthy crusade against the 'unholy'. Who knows? But still, on the face of it it sounds very selfish. I think Rik hit the nail on the head - he's worried further tests will show that he is still HIV positive, and he doesn't want to face that. Understandable really, and while my morals and conscience would make me take the test and cooperate with the scientists, we have to respect this guy's right to not want to.

War does not make one great.

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Originally posted by: JediSage
Originally posted by: Shimraa
Originally posted by: Bossk
Originally posted by: Shimraa
its not like they are asking for his life or to comite him to a life being poked and pronged they are asking for some blood to see if they can end the suffering of MILLIONS OF PEOPLE.


But that's just the problem. What if they cannot find the cure just by testing his blood? What's next? Poking and prodding to the point where the guy can no longer live his normal life and he effectively becomes a lab rat? That's no way to live. If his rights are violated to the point where they tell him he "must" donate blood, the trend will never stop. We will lose progressively greater amounts of rights until we are all living in a prison state with tags on our ears IDing us. I know this may be a melodramatic overinterpretation, but you can't possibly say there is no chance it could happen. Just because the guy is a fluke doesn't mean he should cede his right to life.

In all honesty, I think it's a sham and he's not really cured but is trying to cash in on media exposure.


what your saying is a different story, if that were the case then i would be on his side, by saying that he shouldnt even give a blood test is drawing a line too short. the line should be draw at the point where he feels he cannot live a normal life, askin blood will not prevent that. but in all seriousness if this guy had any ounce of love or care for a fellow man then he should give his blood. and if he doesnt care, well like i said society should show him the same love that he shows. that is all. you can draw a line but seriously dont get all dramatic bossk on well if we get blood where does it stop, cause its not one of those situation, he is an anomally and so there is not chance that scientist would dare take it as far as you are saying cause it just doesnt work like that in real world medical research. maybe in movies and what not but you dont get that in real life.

but as ric was saying HIV tests are not 100% accurate they can say your positive if your not or that your not positive if you are. he probably still has it.

but yeah like is said if this guys doesnt even show enough care that he would give a little bit of blood to better mankind or in attempt to better mankind well to hell him with him.

some one should go take this guy on a feild trip though a ward full of people dieing because of aids. show him people that are getting there brains eaten while they are still alive by bacteria that the body cant fight off(i believe this is call toxoplasmoisis, and almost everyone who has ever touched a cat has it but our immune system beats the shit outta it so its dormant in our bodies), should him images of people dieign cause they pricked there finger on a rusty peice of metal and cant fight off the infection cause they have AIDs show him the suffering that he is alowing to infringe, cause if he hold the cure to aids in his veins then all those deaths should be on his mind, he should haev to carry the deaths of the millions of people on his shoulders cause he will be responsible for them.


I think what you need to keep in mind is that there's no guarantee that this person holds a cure. If they take it by force and it's a dead end, he's been violated and will carry it for the rest of his life. Where would he go in order to get his privacy back?


you right dont take it by force what i am saying is that if this guy doesnt give it of his own will cause he cares so little for society well then he should be excluded from society. dont take his blood let him keep it and let him do what he wants. i think you guy are misunderstanding me, i am not say to take anything from him by force i am saying that in genral if someone care so little for his fellow man where doctors say that he might have the cure for a horrible disease in his veins and he refuses to give at the very least some blood then that is a decrase. and society should show him the same love, not by hurt him or what not but by not doing the favours that all people do for him by leting him use healthcare use public roads and enjoy the previlages that society has set up for him like haveing a supermarket, or haveing a save neighbourhood. people take all these things for granted and it jsut irritates me., all these facilties are set up by people so that when a person needs it he/she can use them its a cooperation. in this situation you could say that all the aids and HIV paicents in the world are asking him for a small favour of giving blood and he refuses. well that just horrible. oh and jsut to refer back this person has a duty to submit blood is the stance i am taking, not to force it outta him.
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Originally posted by: Yoda Is Your Father
While I am not against research into genetics (I'm sure if I ever lost a leg I would be grateful for the ability to grow a new one) I agree with your analysis that we are on dangerous ground and could one day find ourselves in a society where 'inperfect' people are looked down on and maybe not even given the opportunity to be born in the first place. And by 'inperfect' I am talking about minor stuff bent noses and brown eyes. But that is an issue of human vanity and should not halt scientific progress that could help mankind if used sensibly. It is often said that Science is responsible for the means but not the ends, and I agree.


thats stem cell research which i think is great. as for genetic engineering i am right on the line, for parents to be able to pick there babies eye colour and sex and what not i think that is just wrong. but when it comes to pratical uses like( and i know this sounds bad but its not really when you really think about it and look at it overall) engineering a goat so that the proteins that are needed to creat spider silk are found in the milk. not very many people know how strong spider silk is but the truth is if you has a rope made outta the stuff it would be stronger then a steel rod of the same dimensions.
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Originally posted by: Bossk
Originally posted by: Shimraa
what your saying is a different story, if that were the case then i would be on his side, by saying that he shouldnt even give a blood test is drawing a line too short. the line should be draw at the point where he feels he cannot live a normal life, askin blood will not prevent that. but in all seriousness if this guy had any ounce of love or care for a fellow man then he should give his blood. and if he doesnt care, well like i said society should show him the same love that he shows. that is all. you can draw a line but seriously dont get all dramatic bossk on well if we get blood where does it stop, cause its not one of those situation, he is an anomally and so there is not chance that scientist would dare take it as far as you are saying cause it just doesnt work like that in real world medical research. maybe in movies and what not but you dont get that in real life.

but as ric was saying HIV tests are not 100% accurate they can say your positive if your not or that your not positive if you are. he probably still has it.

but yeah like is said if this guys doesnt even show enough care that he would give a little bit of blood to better mankind or in attempt to better mankind well to hell him with him.

some one should go take this guy on a feild trip though a ward full of people dieing because of aids. show him people that are getting there brains eaten while they are still alive by bacteria that the body cant fight off(i believe this is call toxoplasmoisis, and almost everyone who has ever touched a cat has it but our immune system beats the shit outta it so its dormant in our bodies), should him images of people dieign cause they pricked there finger on a rusty peice of metal and cant fight off the infection cause they have AIDs show him the suffering that he is alowing to infringe, cause if he hold the cure to aids in his veins then all those deaths should be on his mind, he should haev to carry the deaths of the millions of people on his shoulders cause he will be responsible for them.


But it's exactly the case. By forcing him to give a blood sample, you're invading his body against his will. A scientist may not cross the line, but I do not trust our government or any government for that matter to not cross the line in the name of finding a cure that will keep them from having to spend tax dollars on research into a disease that they may suddenly find a cure for. Can you honestly look at our government and say, "yeah, they'll be ethical about it"? I can't.


see thats a very interesting issue, i honestly dont think that the government would kidnapp the guy an submit him to hours of testing and what not, this is not a fantasy world bossk, things you see in movies dont nessaraly apply, what you should worry about is if a drug company kidnapped him to do that, cause they are the ones that would make billions if they ever found a cure. the only government in the western world that i wouldnt trust is the american gov(sry) but i dont thing that any of the european govs would do it nor would the canadian. its somethign i would expect from the chinese gov, but this situation is in england and i trust that the english gov wouldnt do that.

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Originally posted by: Shimraa
see thats a very interesting issue, i honestly dont think that the government would kidnapp the guy an submit him to hours of testing and what not, this is not a fantasy world bossk, things you see in movies dont nessaraly apply, what you should worry about is if a drug company kidnapped him to do that, cause they are the ones that would make billions if they ever found a cure. the only government in the western world that i wouldnt trust is the american gov(sry) but i dont thing that any of the european govs would do it nor would the canadian. its somethign i would expect from the chinese gov, but this situation is in england and i trust that the english gov wouldnt do that.


I don't think they'll necessariliy up-and-out kidnap him. But they would change the law to make him subject to testing "within reason." That "reason", of course, would be determined solely by them and he would not be able to do anything about it because, "it's the law."

Stuff in movies may not be "real," per se. But, for people to come up with this sort of stuff in the first place, there has to be an inherent mistrust of government that has its roots in some malfeasance that the government has committed in the past. You don't think governments the world over are hiding things? Covering up their own atrocities? Currently committing even worse acts against people? Then you're just plain naive.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
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Kevin A
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yeah all governments are hiding thing however i thing that the global mistrust in there each respective governemt, for the most part is exaggerated. and dont think they would change the law to make him give his blood. there would be too big of a political outcry,
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Well, when you consider the billions of dollars that have been spent on HIV/AIDS reasearch and the possibility that there is a cure right here inside this man, I think governments might try to change the law so they could save the money. But they would do it under a giant guilt trip. They would mount a pro-cure campaign intended to make this guy look bad and guilt the hell out of him.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
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Kevin A
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Very true. There have been numerous criminal cases that have been thrown out based on invasion of the body. I remember one where a doctor provided a blood sample to the police of a drunk driver. We can say that this is all noble and getting a drunk driver off the road, but consider the implications of allowing this type of evidence: it means that a doctor can use a part of your body to incriminate you by obtaining that part for another purpose. The charges were dropped for that very reason.

What I am saying is simply this: when it comes to your own body, you should have the final say on how parts of your body are to be used. No one should be compelled to give a sample for the "greater good", and laws should not be redrafted to allow this kind of invasion.

Princess Leia: I happen to like nice men.
Han Solo: I'm a nice man.

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Originally posted by: Bossk
Well, when you consider the billions of dollars that have been spent on HIV/AIDS reasearch and the possibility that there is a cure right here inside this man, I think governments might try to change the law so they could save the money. But they would do it under a giant guilt trip. They would mount a pro-cure campaign intended to make this guy look bad and guilt the hell out of him.


the large majority of that money is put up by drug companies, universities, and charities, not the government.