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People need to read more.
Episodes 7,8,9? — Page 4
People need to read more.
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Originally posted by: Darth Chaltab
Besides, there allready are Episodes 7, 8, and 9.
People need to read more.
I agree, Chaltab. Books can go places movies never can, so I'm entirely satisfied referring to the Thrawn Trilogy as Episodes 7,8, and 9. And if that's the case, I'm reading on Episode 8 right now.
Currently Reading: Shatterpoint, by Matthew Stover
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Originally posted by: Obi-wonton
I agree as well but if you read back more than 3 posts, thats what this thread has been about for a while. Doing the Zahn books, someone had mentioned doing them in Final Fantasy style CG if we could never get live action, then there was those rumored ep. 7 pics/3DO game. We all concluded that is the source of our desired movie, but a live action of it now seems impossible.
Ooops...I read this thread for awhile, but quite reading it, so I guess the Zahn stuff came up after I quit reading the thread, and then I just posted on it because Chaltab mentioned the Zahn books, since I'm in the middle of them right now.
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Here's my 2 cents. I think its worth listening to.
In the fall of 1979, I had a college friend who had a good friend in Massachussets who was into special effects makeup. It seems this guy had been corresponding with Rick Baker, then creator of the cantina creatures in Episode 4. One day at lunch my friend told us these ridiculous ideas about the upcoming Star wars movies, and he mentioned that Darth Vader was going to be revealed as Luke's father, Leia would be his sister, etc... we all thought he was full of crap, and told him it sounded like a damn soap opera and dismissed the whole thing.
Until Return of the Jedi, several years later.
Needless to say, when those details became known, my jaw dropped, mostly because I'd heard these things years before. I tracked down my friend in Chicago and reminded him of those ridiculous stories and forced him to retell me the story his friend had relayed to him. This is what I remember him telling me about the WHOLE story:
Luke and Leia are the children of Darth Vader. The first trilogy would be about how Darth Vader bacame a badass. The sequel would be about how Luke follow in his father's footsteps into the Dark Side (sound familiar), and the emergence of the "real heroes" of the story, the children of Han and Leia. Oh, and the Emporer doesn't really die. :-)
Over the years, I've placed this "framework" up against all the details, misinformation, Lucas interviews, books, comics and wild-ass conjecture... I also became a buddhist. From a buddhist perspective, this original concept makes perfect sense. I think George Lucas took an eastern philosophical concept and wrapped it in western hollywood, "High Noon" mystique. The reluctant hero gets drawn into a battle after having lost his family, etc... he goes on a quest for revenge.
In the western world, especially in cinema, we easily accept this idea of vengeance, of justifiable violence, and we are supportive of Luke's journey. We sympathize with his wanderlust, his impatience, his ambition, his sadness, his fear and even his anger...
And if you re-examine the original trilogy, its those emotions that guide Luke along his path. At every point along his path of becoming a Jedi, he makes his decsions for exactly the wrong reasons. Luke's journey has not been very far from his father's. In fact, the parallels are very clear if you examine the two carefully.
This seems to be something that the Emporer knows, as does Darth Vader. The foreshadowing of Luke's future conversion to the Dark Side is constant throughout the original trilogy... on Dogobah when he enters the tree, with the mechanical hand he has similar to his father's, and in the Emporer's own words. He is warned many times throughout the 3 chapters, and he almost always ignores what he is told... just like his father. Anakin may be the more fiery of the two (woudn't you be if you were raised as a slave?) but the two characters' fates are intertwined and fatal. Neither Luke nor his father were strong enough to withstand the power of the Dark Side
Which brings is to the "real heroes". Why does this make sense? Mainly because with Han and Leia, you have a two strong-willed individuals who are easily influenced by too much. They were both intended to be strong, willfull characters for this purpose. Their children would benifit from their determination in two significant ways. 1. They inherited the same will power, and were therfore less likely to succumb to the dark Side seductions. 2. They were spirited away and shielded from the same influences that corrupted Luke and Anakin. They were would be the first "Skywalkers" to be raised properly and trained properly. They'd be as determined and disciplined as their parents and a lot less likely to flake out when the the time came to make the right decisions.
And very likely, they will be the ones to face down their Uncle.
I've poured through many interviews that GL has done, from the first ones in TIME or wherever they've appeared. Despite the fact that he is made a lot of efforts to "disinform" people about his true vision... and he has done a great job of this... I still believe he's always left us enough clues about the whats to come and the his real vision for Star Wars.
I think the best part of this story has yet to be told, and that we're in for an explosive ending. We all knew Anakin was a bad guy, but now we'll get to see the real tragedy and triumph that this tale has to share. A hero falls... a hero we've had on a pedestal for over almost 3 decades, a centuries old evil triumphs, redemption earned, and true balance is brought back to the force.
Its going to be a cinematic triumph beyond anything Hollywood's ever attempted, a philosophical shift in popular culture...
... and a helluva good story.
As far as the novels, comics, etc... I keep coming back to Dark Empire, the Dark Horse comic, as the next logical step for the story. In it, the Emporer returns in clone form and Luke continues down the path to the Dark Side. Leia's children are mentioned as holding the key to redemption in this story as well. There is more information in that graphic novel that is consistent with the original story, than I've seen anywhere else. It's my opinion that none of the current books, regardless of their quality, will be used for the movies. I believe that the "real" story of Star Wars is more about moral strength... real strength in the face of temptation, and the rejection of negative forces. Its a personal story, not a tale about fast ships, goofy aliens, exotic worlds or evil miltary officers with red faces.
To me the novels are side stories. The main story hasn't concluded yet. This is George Lucas' opus. Let's see what he had in mind all along.
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In the fall of 1979, I had a college friend who had a good friend in Massachussets who was into special effects makeup. It seems this guy had been corresponding with Rick Baker, then creator of the cantina creatures in Episode 4. One day at lunch my friend told us these ridiculous ideas about the upcoming Star wars movies, and he mentioned that Darth Vader was going to be revealed as Luke's father, Leia would be his sister, etc... we all thought he was full of crap, and told him it sounded like a damn soap opera and dismissed the whole thing.
Until Return of the Jedi, several years later.
Several problems here. 1st, this conversation took place before Empire strikes back was released, so you should have realized in 1980 that his story was true. 2nd, Leia as Luke's sister wasn't a concept that was worked out until well into the script writing process for jedi. Initially, Luke's sister was supposed to be secreted away somewhere outside the known galaxy. That's according to Gary kurtz, producer of Star Wars and Empire. The whole Leia being Luke's sister thing came later in the script writing process, certainly a good deal after this supposed lunch.
As for the rest of your suppositions on where the sequel trilogy is going... Well, it sounds pretty poor to me. That being the case, I can definitely see Lucas going that route. Personally though, I'd be very much surprised if that's the direction 7, 8 and 9 will take, if they ever get made.
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What that means is anyones guess.
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To NOT have Luke turn to the Dark Side would render the entire story worthless, in my opinion. What's the point of the story anyways? A big excuse for lotsa special effects? Making money? I think the mostly overlooked "force", is at the real heart of the story, and George's comments, when interviewed (with Joseph Campbell, etc) have always reflected that. In a TIME onterview a few years ago, he refused to reveal who his inspiration and role model are because it would be "too revealing". Whats's that about? I'd guess that his idol is probably still who he indicated it was years ago. (anyone guess?)
In that same TIME interview he insisted on him having the right to change his vision of Star Wars as he seemed fit. He compared the process of working in the digital media with working in oils, leaving the artist with the ability to re-work the canvas as needed. And he insisted that if he wanted to change the original trilogy yet again, he would... that they might not be finished yet. (which is fine, because I was never convinced that Episode VI was the version he intended).
IM still betting on Episode III having some startling events, like finding our who Anakin's real father is (my theory: Palpatine, having co-opted the cloning technology for himself could have easily implanted his own improved "seed" to create the "super jedi" needed to defeat his master) possibly lending itself to a scene where we heard that fateful line again "I am your father!". I think the parallels between Anakin and Luke will become more clear with this next film, leaving people to strongly ponder Luke's fate, something that had been assumed all along.
I also pose this question... Since ILM developed this green screening process several years ago, could it be that parts of 7, 8 and 9 have already been filmed? It would make perfect sense, given that ILM has had the technology for several years and could have filmed the actors when they were much younger. This would be another coup for George, and exactly something he would do, developing a technology to defy traditional filmmaking and storytelling standards. He might have been able to even get Sir Alec on digital form before he passed away. Also worth mentioning are the facts that they've had both the time and money to have done this. If anyone could have done it, GL could have. In the years since ROTJ, who is to really say what they could have working on in private?
Any responses?
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I agree, Lucas and Co. are pretty good at the disinformation biz, however, I wouldn't point at Supershadow as a good example. Supdershadow is a comic genius, not some branch of Lucasfilm disfinormation. If he were. Lucasfilm certainly wouldn't have shut him down for a short while, nor would they have required him at one point to carry disclaimer that clearly said the entire site was fictitious.
I won't speculate on who George's inspiration is because honestly, I doubt George even has an asnwer. His work is too sloppy, too poorly constructed and slapped together to be the product of any kind of master plan. As for his comments about having the right to rework the OT as much as he wants. Yeah, I've heard it before. And sure, they're his films, he can do waht he likes. However, that does not excuse him from his responsibility to society to preserve an important part of cinema history. What would Lucas say if Fritz Lang were alive today and decided to tinker around with Metropolis? Maybe dub in some voices, new CG effects, perhaps change some scenes, add some new ones, and then never release the original again. Well, considering his stance on the Stooges, I'd imagine Lucas would take issue with that, because, well, Lucas is a hypocrit.
As for the green screen stuff... That's just stupid. There's not a snowball's chance in hell they filmed an entire trilogy under wraps. too much money, time, and people involved to keep anything like that silent this long. Too many people have come and gone at ILM and lucasfilm for not a single word of this to have leaked out. Not to mention you seem to have a poor grasp of what green screen technology is actually capable of. Honestly, this is the kind of speculation that Belongs on Supershadows site, because there it would be abundantly clear that it's a work of comedy. Here, you come off like you're serious, and it kinda blows the humor factor of the posts.
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It's clear that he writes them the night before principle photography begins, granted he probably stays up all night, or most of it, in order to get the thing finished.
He has always been influenced in his writing by the memories of his youth, his passions and the process of working with far, FAR better storytellers.
But these days his influences are no longer so lofty as Campbell, Kurosawa and Buck Rogers and no longer so shrouded in the past.
All you have to do to see that is watch the two PT films.
Clearly while writing TPM GL was accidentally sitting on the TV remote and while shifting his butt back and forth on the computer chair he was clicking between C-SPAN and FOX Sports and some other channel where the Dinotopia book was being reviewed.
When it came to AOTC he must have had SpaceBalls on in the background.
"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it." - Goebbels.
"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." - Orwell.
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Luke goes to the dark side (which would actually be great I think, I could really see an evil Mark Hamill) and the final 3 episodes are about his journey to bring unity to the force. To unite the dark and light sides of the force. The special one that the jedi's have been waiting for all this time according to their prophecy.
As for the number of films. Even when I was very little, everyone always knew there were going to be 9 films. Everybody was annoyed when George said he was going to make the first 3 because everyone wanted to know what happens next, but then George didn't even make the first 3 films either and everyone gave up on it!
The story with the films was that originally there were going to be 12! Then George decided that 3 of the films were incidental to the story. Since then there were always going to be 9 films. However George claimed he was never going to make any of them. He has however gone back on that and made the first 3 after all. All this stuff about it originally being only one film that Gary Kurtz has been putting about, is not true, there were going to be 12 films, at least by the time star wars was being shot.
Basically the thing about George is he doesn't actually like making films, or at least not directing them. I guess he thought he liked directing them first but then he went off it. However, paradoxically he apparently also sees starwars as his babies and won't let spielberg direct a star wars
The is another intesting idea tho, and that is the stuff that Mark Hamill has come out with recently. Now I'm never quite sure when Mark is just having a little joke but I really believe what he said about telling Mark that the last 3 films would come out in 2011. Especially as he said he expected the first 3 films to follow on quite soon after the original trilogy which was what everyone expected. Maybe George has finally got around to making the first 3 films because he needed to before he could make the last 3.
I can also imagine that George might want to keep it a secret that he wasn't going to make the last 3 films till the early 21st C. I mean can you imagine trying to tell people that! All those kids who want to know what happens next and you won't tell them till 2011! It's also exactly the kind of thing that George would do isn't it?
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It's apparent to see that the first 3 films were supposed to be darker, but of course George has tried to make them into fun childrens entertainment at this point. This is why they are so awful. They are intended to be these dark films but george has copped out and tried to make them all fun.
It's definitely true what Mark said tho, that the first 3 films are less entertaining!
It would be good if he could let Speilberg run with it after all, like some of the rumours are suggesting.
Something definitely seems to be going on tho. Mark has suddenly come out with this stuff which implies he thinks it's okay to talk about it now. Chewbecca has been signed on for episode III but also another 3 films and there was an advert for employees at ILM that mentiones working on episodes 7,8,9.
I guess we will see!
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I don't think it would be out of the question for Mark Hamill to reprise his role in the newly announced TV project just announced, He certainly isn't too 'big' and actor to knock back the opportunity, considering he's never been able to escape the shadow of Luke Skywalker it would be only fitting for him to return to the role that made him famous, and going by recent photo's where he has ditched the beard he still has the look to carry it off, and seeing as Anthony Daniels and Peter Mayhew have made careers out of their associations with the franchise, on the fan circuit I doubt you could keep either of them away from a project like this, I doubt Harrison or Carrie would have anything to do with it, but I think a storyline similar to Jedi Academy, where Luke searches the Galaxy recruiting a new generation of Jedi
could have plenty of possibilities.
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He played middle-aged bearded Indy in an episode of the Young Indiana Jones Chronicles.
"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it." - Goebbels.
"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." - Orwell.
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My take on this is different. It's been my opinion that the gimmick of starting in the middle of a story is a literary convention, common in storytelling. But mainly, it was for a good reason. If you read my previous post, you know that I believe it's Luke's destiny to become evil, as was foretold by the Emporer and all of the foreshadowing in the original trilogy.
To me it makes good sense to allow people to assume that Luke is a "good jedi", and seems benign to go back and tell the story of his father's fall from grace. Except when you begin to see the parallels in their two seemingly different lives. I think this will be especially obvious in Episode 3, and once thats apparant, it will leave people to question Luke's fate. It's can be an obvious segue to Chapter 7, rejoining Luke on his path to the Dark Side, something that should turn the entire Star Wars universe on its ear.
Anyone can stake out a path to the dark side. Don't be fooled by Luke's "fighting for the good side" (the rebel alliance) as something that will save his soul. It didn't save his father's soul either. It's an individual, personal battle and anyone can succumb to it, regardless of affiliations, goals, etc.
"The road to Hell is paved with good intentions."
Even if I misunderstand the "green screen technology" and haven't read all of Gary Kurtz' interviews, I believe I am right about this. And so far, nothing thats been presented in the original trilogy or the prequels gives me reason to belive that the core meaning of the story has changed from what I originally said.
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...tell the story of his father's fall from grace. Except when you begin to see the parallels in their two seemingly different lives.
Umm, could you maybe make a list of these similarities. It's just that, we're 2 thrids of the way through the PT, and personally, I'm not seeing a whole lot of similiarities between Luke and Anakin. The best I could say is that they're both kinda whiney. Unless there's a dramatic turn in Episode 3 where we get to see some similarities, I'd say the prospect of the PT throwing Luke's character into a new light is really slim. As it stands now it hasn't happened, so Ep 3 has its work cut out for it.
Oh, a little off topic, but here's a couple of continuity issues I have:
1.) Somehow, Obi-Wan is going to have to be unaware of Leia's existence in episode 3. He can know about Luke, but considering he doesn't find out about Leia until (presumably) ESB when he says "that boy is our last hope" and Yoda says "No, there is another" which I assume was followed by an off-screen spilling of the beans to Obi Wan.
2.) If Padme bites it in ROTS, they'll have to make the film cover a pretty large schwack of time, because Leia remembers her mother. Let's be generous and assume Leia can recall images and feelings from as far back as being 3 years old. Any earlier than that is getting ridiculous. So, Padme has to Live, with Leia, in hiding, for 3 years, and then she can die.
3.) If Luke and Leia were the universes last hope, and if Jedi are only supposed to be trained starting when they are very young, then why were they hidden away, seperately, and allowed to grow up? Why were they not secreted to yoda on Degobah to be trained?
4.) At some point in ROTS, Anakin needs to have a lightsaber like Luke's ROTJ saber, because the emperor tells Luke that his lightsaber is "much like your fathers" and Anakin's saber is clearly nothing like Lukes.
Just some thoughts
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Padme dies giving birth!
Leia remembers "Feelings" - "Images" - She's stronge in the force!
"A Jedi's weapon, much like your fathers" - Meaning that only Vader has the weapon of the Jedi - Luke will have Anakins Lightsabre that he uses in 3.
"That boy is our last hope" - Probably meaning that Luke has already started his traing - Leia has not. She doesn't even know she has the Force running through her. Obi just probably thought it was too late for to start training Leia, given her age!
They were hidden seperatly to protect them. Two kids strong in the Force together with Yoda is too easy to find.
And maybe Anakin didn't even know about Leia being born. - Actually he didn't know!
Well thats my thoughts on the subject anyway!!
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George Lucas was at the French Deauville Festival for a THX 1138 screening.
When asked about Star Wars 7,8,9... he said :
http://www.dvdalliance.com/DVD-images/DVD-festivals/deauvilleus04/jour9/lucas.mp3
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i JUST FOUND THIS ON A WEEKLY NON STAR WARS RELATED MAILING LIST THAT i AM ON ,THAT DEALS MOSTLY WITH GOSSIP, AND THEY'RE USUALLY PRETTY RELIABLE WITH THEIR INFORMATION, THOUGHT i'D PASS IT ON
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Lucasfilm are said to be making a TV series called
The Adventures of Luke Skywalker. Lawrence Kasdan
and Kevin Smith are lined up to direct episodes.
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Wrong!
Padme dies giving birth!
Leia remembers "Feelings" - "Images" - She's stronge in the force!
I refuse to accept "the force" as the answer for all the inconsistencies George has inflicted on the OT. So she was strong in the force, that doesn't mean she can remember images and feelings from the moment of her birth. And what about Luke? He's just as strong in the force, perhaps stronger, and he has no memory of his mother. It's like the Excuse Xena gave in that episode of the Simpsons "Anytime you see something on the show that doesn't make sense... A wizard did it."
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"A Jedi's weapon, much like your fathers" - Meaning that only Vader has the weapon of the Jedi
I suppose you could take it that way, but I don't.
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"That boy is our last hope" - Probably meaning that Luke has already started his traing - Leia has not. She doesn't even know she has the Force running through her. Obi just probably thought it was too late for to start training Leia, given her age!
He didn't have a problem with Luke's Age. Not to mention when the line in question was written, leia was not yet Luke's sister. That plot element wasn't struck upon until Lucas started writing Jedi.
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they were hidden seperatly to protect them. Two kids strong in the Force together with Yoda is too easy to find.
Are they? Vader couldn't sense his son who was strong in the force when he was in orbit over tatooine. He couldn't sense how strong Leia was in the force while standing 2 feet from her. Seems to me the universe is an enormous place. It further seems to me that sensing a disturbance in the force is different than getting a fix on said disturbance.
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And maybe Anakin didn't even know about Leia being born. - Actually he didn't know!
Anakin can't know about either of them. If he knew, then the Emperor would know, and they would have been actively searching. If they were actively searching, there's no way Luke would have been allowed to hide out with his original last name. In fact, Luke's last name is the most damning piece of evidence to the fact that Vader wasn't Luke's father until ESB when Lucas decided to make the cahnge. No master plan, no grand story arc following the fall and redemption of Anakin Skywalker. nothing.
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