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Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * SPOILER THREAD * — Page 182

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I prefer my take on it. One that came to me from watching the PT several times. The force has grown out of balance by TPM because of the Jedi Sith split (that comes from the EU and may not be the case anymore). The two major user of the force polarized it and it comes to a head in the PT with Palpatine having the power to hide from the Jedi right under their noses. Their power is diminished (so they are not at the height of their power). Anakin comes along and his role in the PT has nothing to do with being the Chosen One. That is why Qui-gon insists on training him, but his actions and his fall have little to do with that. It was not too late to mold him into a proper Jedi when we meet him. But they don’t. Yes, they teach him the powers and skills and diciplines, but they fail to teach him anything about how to avoid the Dark Side. I don’t think they knew how. How does Yoda teach Luke? Constantly reminding him about Vader. Anakin falls because the didn’t teach him how to love and not posses. Why? Because they don’t know how any more. Their philosophy is to avoid anything that could possibly lead to the dark side. If you watch that video it is clear that Anakin falls for the most basic temptation of the dark side - the idea he can get what he wants. And the reason he wants is because his training was incomplete. And this is not a failing of Obi-wan’s training (as he believes) but in the PT era Jedi way of training. Their entire training apparatus is based on taking the very young and raising them in the Jedi order. Basically brain washing them. But even that does not work as we we see with Dooku. They do not teach anything about the dark side other than to avoid it. By Lucas’s own words in that video, a properly trained Jedi should be able to draw upon the force without worrying which side or worrying about the temptations. A properly trained Jedi would not succumb to greed and selfishness. Lucas boiled it down to selflessness and selfishness. The Sith crave power and then fear losing power.

I think the color of the saber is an indicator of where they are in that balance. The Sith only use red, so we know where that one is. It is possible that orange would go with a less polarized dark side user. Blue is on the other end. It is for a very light side focused Jedi. Green is more moderate and closer to balance. Purple is further from balance and it is interesting that Made Windu, the only one with that color, is the most polarizing Jedi we see. While Qui-gon is far more moderate. We don’t see a yellow saber until we see Rey with one, which fits her going back to the oldest Jedi teachings - from before the split. She is in balance after balancing the force. That of course is something that happened gradually. In the outside scenes in Jedi, the blue saber didn’t work as well so they went with green instead. Probably why Qui-gon had that color as well. And Jackson wanted a purple saber. But when you lay it over everything it does make sense.

And if you noticed, the notes from that meeting were from the earliest notes of the PT. And Filoni was there taking it all in and what he did in Clone Wars and Rebels fits exactly with what we hear George saying. His father, daughter, son, and Bendu all fit. The father and bendu as pure and balanced force while the daughter and son are polarized into light and dark. Balance first came up in TPM and has been part of canon ever since.

I do not see Anakin as a Jesus figure. He may or may not be the Chosen One (Qui-gon certainly believed and seems to have convinced the rest), but the issue is never really settled. He does balance the force by taking out Palpatine (and himself in the process) leaving only Luke, but is it in perfect balance or like a spring, momentarily back in the center before tipping over again. The ST never addresses the idea of the chosen one, only balance. And it ends with Rey having the ancient Jedi texts (and presumably how they did things when the force was in balance) the force might stay in balance. Though I think Luke’s lesson (the hard lesson of many failures) was the biggest point.

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 (Edited)

Funny how TFA referenced balance in the force but completely threw out the prophecy, anakin’s redemption- his legacy which is what the ST should have been about. Instead of building on the past they just remade it. At least TLJ was trying to stear the ship to a meaningful conclusion but now in retrospect, with this new abomination ‘Tros’ I guess that’s what this new trilogy is damned to be, a shiny shallow Hollywood remake.

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I also wish these sequel movies had more of a thematic connection to the wider saga. It would have been very poetic if the prequels were the fall of the Skywalkers, the OT was the rise of the Skywalkers, and the sequels were the legacy of the Skywalkers. Instead we got one boring OT rehash, one weird post-modernist take on the OT storyline, and one crossover fanfic where Palpatine meets the sequel trilogy characters. Hardly a cohesive trilogy, let alone a cohesive saga.

My preferred saga experience:
TPM/AOTC/ROTS (Hal 9000 edits), ANH/ESB/ROTJ (Despecialized), The Mandalorian.
May the midichlorians be with you.

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Time

StarkillerAG said:

I also wish these sequel movies had more of a thematic connection to the wider saga. It would have been very poetic if the prequels were the fall of the Skywalkers, the OT was the rise of the Skywalkers, and the sequels were the legacy of the Skywalkers. Instead we got one boring OT rehash, one weird post-modernist take on the OT storyline, and one crossover fanfic where Palpatine meets the sequel trilogy characters. Hardly a cohesive trilogy, let alone a cohesive saga.

The problem with that is that doesn’t make for much of a story. If you want an ST that has the same stakes and style as the previous 6 films, you have to have some great evil threatening what the OT built. Timothy Zahn did it with clone Palpatines and Admiral Thrawn and his force inhibiting critters. To be epic enough and see if our OT heroes really did their job the ST has to threaten what they built in a significant way. We know on the Force side that Lucas basically came up with the Luke, Rey, Kylo (not a Skywalker) and Snoke structure and introcucing Luke at the very end of VII seems to have been Arndt, not Abrams. But we don’t know where either of them were going with the trilogy and if that would have been epic enough. Lucas has talked about the Whills, but no details. But for it to work and fit in, the ST has to endanger the results of the OT. The ST we got did that, though not to some people’s liking. Snoke being a clone and Palpatine’s puppet could have used some additional foreshadowing. To me it feels like a story development hiccough. They let Rian kill of Snoke because they thought Kylo was bad ass enough and then decided he wasn’t and needed something bigger. And thanks to Zahn, they had the ready made idea of a Palpatine Clone. Unless we actually get to see Lucas’s treatments (or even Arndt’s), we won’t know what the ST was going to look like before Abrams. Was it going to be epic enough? Was it going to work?

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yotsuya said:

StarkillerAG said:

I also wish these sequel movies had more of a thematic connection to the wider saga. It would have been very poetic if the prequels were the fall of the Skywalkers, the OT was the rise of the Skywalkers, and the sequels were the legacy of the Skywalkers. Instead we got one boring OT rehash, one weird post-modernist take on the OT storyline, and one crossover fanfic where Palpatine meets the sequel trilogy characters. Hardly a cohesive trilogy, let alone a cohesive saga.

The problem with that is that doesn’t make for much of a story. If you want an ST that has the same stakes and style as the previous 6 films, you have to have some great evil threatening what the OT built. Timothy Zahn did it with clone Palpatines and Admiral Thrawn and his force inhibiting critters. To be epic enough and see if our OT heroes really did their job the ST has to threaten what they built in a significant way. We know on the Force side that Lucas basically came up with the Luke, Rey, Kylo (not a Skywalker) and Snoke structure and introcucing Luke at the very end of VII seems to have been Arndt, not Abrams. But we don’t know where either of them were going with the trilogy and if that would have been epic enough. Lucas has talked about the Whills, but no details. But for it to work and fit in, the ST has to endanger the results of the OT. The ST we got did that, though not to some people’s liking. Snoke being a clone and Palpatine’s puppet could have used some additional foreshadowing. To me it feels like a story development hiccough. They let Rian kill of Snoke because they thought Kylo was bad ass enough and then decided he wasn’t and needed something bigger. And thanks to Zahn, they had the ready made idea of a Palpatine Clone. Unless we actually get to see Lucas’s treatments (or even Arndt’s), we won’t know what the ST was going to look like before Abrams. Was it going to be epic enough? Was it going to work?

It seems like your biggest wish for a Star Wars movie is for it to be “epic”, when that was never what made the OT so appealing to so many people. The best moments in Star Wars have always been the quiet moments. Stuff like the binary sunset, and Darth Vader’s death. I think a more “epilogue” style sequel trilogy would be very much in that spirit. Much more OT style than Palpatine 2 with his 10,000 Death Stars making Return of the Jedi pointless.

P.S. I’m pretty sure Timothy Zahn didn’t write Dark Empire. He actively tried to distance himself from that storyline in one of his later books. Which just shows that bringing back Palpatine is probably not a good idea.

My preferred saga experience:
TPM/AOTC/ROTS (Hal 9000 edits), ANH/ESB/ROTJ (Despecialized), The Mandalorian.
May the midichlorians be with you.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

yotsuya said:

StarkillerAG said:

I also wish these sequel movies had more of a thematic connection to the wider saga. It would have been very poetic if the prequels were the fall of the Skywalkers, the OT was the rise of the Skywalkers, and the sequels were the legacy of the Skywalkers. Instead we got one boring OT rehash, one weird post-modernist take on the OT storyline, and one crossover fanfic where Palpatine meets the sequel trilogy characters. Hardly a cohesive trilogy, let alone a cohesive saga.

The problem with that is that doesn’t make for much of a story. If you want an ST that has the same stakes and style as the previous 6 films, you have to have some great evil threatening what the OT built. Timothy Zahn did it with clone Palpatines and Admiral Thrawn and his force inhibiting critters. To be epic enough and see if our OT heroes really did their job the ST has to threaten what they built in a significant way. We know on the Force side that Lucas basically came up with the Luke, Rey, Kylo (not a Skywalker) and Snoke structure and introcucing Luke at the very end of VII seems to have been Arndt, not Abrams. But we don’t know where either of them were going with the trilogy and if that would have been epic enough. Lucas has talked about the Whills, but no details. But for it to work and fit in, the ST has to endanger the results of the OT. The ST we got did that, though not to some people’s liking. Snoke being a clone and Palpatine’s puppet could have used some additional foreshadowing. To me it feels like a story development hiccough. They let Rian kill of Snoke because they thought Kylo was bad ass enough and then decided he wasn’t and needed something bigger. And thanks to Zahn, they had the ready made idea of a Palpatine Clone. Unless we actually get to see Lucas’s treatments (or even Arndt’s), we won’t know what the ST was going to look like before Abrams. Was it going to be epic enough? Was it going to work?

Timothy Zahn had nothing to do with Palpatine returning as a clone, he actually hated that plot thread in the old EU and tried his best to avoid referencing it in his trilogy, you are referring to Dark Empire by Tom Veitch. Secondly nobody said anything about wanting the ST to have “the same stakes” as the previous films, ironically that’s what damned this trilogy from the get go -Empire 2.0 - Deathstar 3 - Palpatine back at the top, “Same stakes” give me a brake. It seems to me just from reading your comments that, to be blunt, you don’t seem to have a clue…

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 (Edited)

Just wanted to chime in and say this is a very fun discussion to read. I’ve said this before but I think the ambiguity of the Force really adds to its mystique. I suppose out of universe George or JJ or Rian can say how they interpret the Force, but I think it would be to its detriment to ever definitively explain its function.

I think it would be cool to get an Old Republic story where we see opposing Jedi philosophies come to a head, not in a violent way, but where we see Jedi debate on the nature of the Force and the dark side. Maybe some Jedi see the dark side as an evil that needs to be purged, where others see it as an aspect of all life that needs to be understood.

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 (Edited)

RogueLeader said:
I think it would be cool to get an Old Republic story where we see opposing Jedi philosophies come to a head, not in a violent way, but where we see Jedi debate on the nature of the Force and the dark side. Maybe some Jedi see the dark side as an evil that needs to be purged, where others see it as an aspect of all life that needs to be understood.

That would be great to watch, they can probably pull inspiration from early church history with their theological and doctrinal difference, councils etc .

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Time
 (Edited)

idir_hh said:

RogueLeader said:
I think it would be cool to get an Old Republic story where we see opposing Jedi philosophies come to a head, not in a violent way, but where we see Jedi debate on the nature of the Force and the dark side. Maybe some Jedi see the dark side as an evil that needs to be purged, where others see it as an aspect of all life that needs to be understood.

That would be great to watch, they can probably pull inspiration from early church history with their theological and doctrinal difference, councils etc .

Too complex and cerebral. People just want white hats and black hats whacking colour-coded fleshlights together.

Divergent Universes
Dreams of a Randy Git-Fiend

Make Off Topic great again.

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idir_hh said:

yotsuya said:

StarkillerAG said:

I also wish these sequel movies had more of a thematic connection to the wider saga. It would have been very poetic if the prequels were the fall of the Skywalkers, the OT was the rise of the Skywalkers, and the sequels were the legacy of the Skywalkers. Instead we got one boring OT rehash, one weird post-modernist take on the OT storyline, and one crossover fanfic where Palpatine meets the sequel trilogy characters. Hardly a cohesive trilogy, let alone a cohesive saga.

The problem with that is that doesn’t make for much of a story. If you want an ST that has the same stakes and style as the previous 6 films, you have to have some great evil threatening what the OT built. Timothy Zahn did it with clone Palpatines and Admiral Thrawn and his force inhibiting critters. To be epic enough and see if our OT heroes really did their job the ST has to threaten what they built in a significant way. We know on the Force side that Lucas basically came up with the Luke, Rey, Kylo (not a Skywalker) and Snoke structure and introcucing Luke at the very end of VII seems to have been Arndt, not Abrams. But we don’t know where either of them were going with the trilogy and if that would have been epic enough. Lucas has talked about the Whills, but no details. But for it to work and fit in, the ST has to endanger the results of the OT. The ST we got did that, though not to some people’s liking. Snoke being a clone and Palpatine’s puppet could have used some additional foreshadowing. To me it feels like a story development hiccough. They let Rian kill of Snoke because they thought Kylo was bad ass enough and then decided he wasn’t and needed something bigger. And thanks to Zahn, they had the ready made idea of a Palpatine Clone. Unless we actually get to see Lucas’s treatments (or even Arndt’s), we won’t know what the ST was going to look like before Abrams. Was it going to be epic enough? Was it going to work?

Timothy Zahn had nothing to do with Palpatine returning as a clone, he actually hated that plot thread in the old EU and tried his best to avoid referencing it in his trilogy, you are referring to Dark Empire by Tom Veitch. Secondly nobody said anything about wanting the ST to have “the same stakes” as the previous films, ironically that’s what damned this trilogy from the get go -Empire 2.0 - Deathstar 3 - Palpatine back at the top, “Same stakes” give me a brake. It seems to me just from reading your comments that, to be blunt, you don’t seem to have a clue…

Not the same steaks. The same level of stakes. Bit difference. Yes, they went with something very familiar which has its advantages but the disadvantage of having been done before. I thought it worked because the tackled it a different way.

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 (Edited)

The First/Final Order “threat” was tackled in the most juvanile, simplistic and unnuanced way possible. Need to overthrow the Repulic? Easy, blow it up! Need stakes for the heroes? Gotcha here’s a million Deathstars! Look look we have “ePIc stAkS”.
come on.

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StarkillerAG said:

yotsuya said:

StarkillerAG said:

I also wish these sequel movies had more of a thematic connection to the wider saga. It would have been very poetic if the prequels were the fall of the Skywalkers, the OT was the rise of the Skywalkers, and the sequels were the legacy of the Skywalkers. Instead we got one boring OT rehash, one weird post-modernist take on the OT storyline, and one crossover fanfic where Palpatine meets the sequel trilogy characters. Hardly a cohesive trilogy, let alone a cohesive saga.

The problem with that is that doesn’t make for much of a story. If you want an ST that has the same stakes and style as the previous 6 films, you have to have some great evil threatening what the OT built. Timothy Zahn did it with clone Palpatines and Admiral Thrawn and his force inhibiting critters. To be epic enough and see if our OT heroes really did their job the ST has to threaten what they built in a significant way. We know on the Force side that Lucas basically came up with the Luke, Rey, Kylo (not a Skywalker) and Snoke structure and introcucing Luke at the very end of VII seems to have been Arndt, not Abrams. But we don’t know where either of them were going with the trilogy and if that would have been epic enough. Lucas has talked about the Whills, but no details. But for it to work and fit in, the ST has to endanger the results of the OT. The ST we got did that, though not to some people’s liking. Snoke being a clone and Palpatine’s puppet could have used some additional foreshadowing. To me it feels like a story development hiccough. They let Rian kill of Snoke because they thought Kylo was bad ass enough and then decided he wasn’t and needed something bigger. And thanks to Zahn, they had the ready made idea of a Palpatine Clone. Unless we actually get to see Lucas’s treatments (or even Arndt’s), we won’t know what the ST was going to look like before Abrams. Was it going to be epic enough? Was it going to work?

It seems like your biggest wish for a Star Wars movie is for it to be “epic”, when that was never what made the OT so appealing to so many people. The best moments in Star Wars have always been the quiet moments. Stuff like the binary sunset, and Darth Vader’s death. I think a more “epilogue” style sequel trilogy would be very much in that spirit. Much more OT style than Palpatine 2 with his 10,000 Death Stars making Return of the Jedi pointless.

P.S. I’m pretty sure Timothy Zahn didn’t write Dark Empire. He actively tried to distance himself from that storyline in one of his later books. Which just shows that bringing back Palpatine is probably not a good idea.

I feel that the saga requires that epicness because of its roots. Yes, some of the great moments are the quiet ones. But the story is of good and evil on a galactic scale. I always tie it back to its origins in Flash Gordon. Ming kept coming back over and over. You think he’s dead? Think again. Because of that I was more than okay with Palpatine’s return because it is in that spirit and it did create that epic level story. And I don’t know why so many are upset that the work of the OT heroes 30 years on is threatened by something new. That is part of the structure. Nothing lasts forever and what we see in the ST is a world where Leia helped rebuild the republic, but it has issues (and doesn’t seem to listen to her as often times happens to heroes of the past). We have planet destroying tech in the very first film so having it crop up again only makes sense. The tech exists and some new fool is intent on using it again. So I don’t feel that what we got really had any issues. I think TFA had issues and I think TLJ and TROS ran with what was started and did they best they could from a rocky start. I think the end result is better than the PT. So what if some things are recycled. If you really look at it, the PT recycled quite a bit of the OT itself so the ST doing the same thing is just following the template. I think they varied it enough to create a unique and interesting trilogy. But I don’t feel that what I’m referring to as epic and the repeated story beats have any link. I think that a really creative person could have come in and crafted a unique story that would be epic enough. I don’t think we got that really creative and different story, but we got something that was different enough and epic enough to be worth it.

And I only read Zahn’s trilogy once, when it first came out. So I may be confusing things, but I didn’t read that many of the novels. I felt they went off on odd tangents and the great enemy they created just never seemed in keeping with the Star Wars theme. An alien invasion of the Star Wars galaxy isn’t as epic as some new dark side threat. And rechecking the story content on Wookiepedia, Zahn did have a clone, just not of Palpatine. The later EU had a whole slew of clones of Palpatine causing trouble until he was eliminated. Like some other things, I think that Abrams and co drew on the EU for ideas. I think what they ended up with was in the spirit of the EU but done much better. Though I do wish they’d thought of the stormtrooper rebellion and planted the seeds in TLJ. That would have been a cool thing to see play out over the later two films. Instead we just have an echo of it. But the EU writers did understand epic and wrote a lot of stories that do exactly what you don’t like about the ST. Lots of rebels vs. Empire redos. With the EU spending so much energy on that, I’m not surprised the ST went that way as well. The ST is kind of a best of EU compliation. And set 30 years after ROTJ, it is long after most of the EU stories were set, so they gave the Republic a lot more years of peace than the EU did. Not saying the EU was any good, just that a lot of fans were expecting something like that and the ST delivered with lots of story points right out of the EU. Clone Emperor in a dying body (because the clones couldn’t contain his power), a fleet of ships, more deadly planet killing weapons, Sith acolytes serving the Emperor, young Jedi, other evil force users, other clones. Quite a bit is missing, but the high points of what we got are just creatively repurposed form the EU.

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yotsuya said:

StarkillerAG said:

yotsuya said:

StarkillerAG said:

I also wish these sequel movies had more of a thematic connection to the wider saga. It would have been very poetic if the prequels were the fall of the Skywalkers, the OT was the rise of the Skywalkers, and the sequels were the legacy of the Skywalkers. Instead we got one boring OT rehash, one weird post-modernist take on the OT storyline, and one crossover fanfic where Palpatine meets the sequel trilogy characters. Hardly a cohesive trilogy, let alone a cohesive saga.

The problem with that is that doesn’t make for much of a story. If you want an ST that has the same stakes and style as the previous 6 films, you have to have some great evil threatening what the OT built. Timothy Zahn did it with clone Palpatines and Admiral Thrawn and his force inhibiting critters. To be epic enough and see if our OT heroes really did their job the ST has to threaten what they built in a significant way. We know on the Force side that Lucas basically came up with the Luke, Rey, Kylo (not a Skywalker) and Snoke structure and introcucing Luke at the very end of VII seems to have been Arndt, not Abrams. But we don’t know where either of them were going with the trilogy and if that would have been epic enough. Lucas has talked about the Whills, but no details. But for it to work and fit in, the ST has to endanger the results of the OT. The ST we got did that, though not to some people’s liking. Snoke being a clone and Palpatine’s puppet could have used some additional foreshadowing. To me it feels like a story development hiccough. They let Rian kill of Snoke because they thought Kylo was bad ass enough and then decided he wasn’t and needed something bigger. And thanks to Zahn, they had the ready made idea of a Palpatine Clone. Unless we actually get to see Lucas’s treatments (or even Arndt’s), we won’t know what the ST was going to look like before Abrams. Was it going to be epic enough? Was it going to work?

It seems like your biggest wish for a Star Wars movie is for it to be “epic”, when that was never what made the OT so appealing to so many people. The best moments in Star Wars have always been the quiet moments. Stuff like the binary sunset, and Darth Vader’s death. I think a more “epilogue” style sequel trilogy would be very much in that spirit. Much more OT style than Palpatine 2 with his 10,000 Death Stars making Return of the Jedi pointless.

P.S. I’m pretty sure Timothy Zahn didn’t write Dark Empire. He actively tried to distance himself from that storyline in one of his later books. Which just shows that bringing back Palpatine is probably not a good idea.

I feel that the saga requires that epicness because of its roots. Yes, some of the great moments are the quiet ones. But the story is of good and evil on a galactic scale. I always tie it back to its origins in Flash Gordon. Ming kept coming back over and over. You think he’s dead? Think again. Because of that I was more than okay with Palpatine’s return because it is in that spirit and it did create that epic level story. And I don’t know why so many are upset that the work of the OT heroes 30 years on is threatened by something new. That is part of the structure. Nothing lasts forever and what we see in the ST is a world where Leia helped rebuild the republic, but it has issues (and doesn’t seem to listen to her as often times happens to heroes of the past). We have planet destroying tech in the very first film so having it crop up again only makes sense. The tech exists and some new fool is intent on using it again. So I don’t feel that what we got really had any issues. I think TFA had issues and I think TLJ and TROS ran with what was started and did they best they could from a rocky start. I think the end result is better than the PT. So what if some things are recycled. If you really look at it, the PT recycled quite a bit of the OT itself so the ST doing the same thing is just following the template. I think they varied it enough to create a unique and interesting trilogy. But I don’t feel that what I’m referring to as epic and the repeated story beats have any link. I think that a really creative person could have come in and crafted a unique story that would be epic enough. I don’t think we got that really creative and different story, but we got something that was different enough and epic enough to be worth it.

I guess we just fundamentally disagree on this sort of stuff. I think big scale and epic battles don’t at all make up for a lack of creativity. I really wish there was a new threat other than the Empire again, and the Sith again, led by Palpatine again. I understand that Flash Gordon and other old serials did this sort of stuff all the time, but I think the Star Wars franchise should move beyond those cheesy pulp sci-fi roots. And also, blowing up the New Republic, the government the OT heroes worked so hard to establish, and treating it like no big deal, was a huge mistake. I understand that any new enemy needs to threaten the happy ending of the previous movies, but the happy ending shouldn’t just be thrown away unceremoniously like that.

And I only read Zahn’s trilogy once, when it first came out. So I may be confusing things, but I didn’t read that many of the novels. I felt they went off on odd tangents and the great enemy they created just never seemed in keeping with the Star Wars theme. An alien invasion of the Star Wars galaxy isn’t as epic as some new dark side threat. And rechecking the story content on Wookiepedia, Zahn did have a clone, just not of Palpatine. The later EU had a whole slew of clones of Palpatine causing trouble until he was eliminated. Like some other things, I think that Abrams and co drew on the EU for ideas. I think what they ended up with was in the spirit of the EU but done much better. Though I do wish they’d thought of the stormtrooper rebellion and planted the seeds in TLJ. That would have been a cool thing to see play out over the later two films. Instead we just have an echo of it. But the EU writers did understand epic and wrote a lot of stories that do exactly what you don’t like about the ST. Lots of rebels vs. Empire redos. With the EU spending so much energy on that, I’m not surprised the ST went that way as well. The ST is kind of a best of EU compliation. And set 30 years after ROTJ, it is long after most of the EU stories were set, so they gave the Republic a lot more years of peace than the EU did. Not saying the EU was any good, just that a lot of fans were expecting something like that and the ST delivered with lots of story points right out of the EU. Clone Emperor in a dying body (because the clones couldn’t contain his power), a fleet of ships, more deadly planet killing weapons, Sith acolytes serving the Emperor, young Jedi, other evil force users, other clones. Quite a bit is missing, but the high points of what we got are just creatively repurposed form the EU.

I know that the EU did a lot of Brave Rebels vs Evil Empire rehashes. And that’s exactly why I don’t like it. Did I ever imply that I like the EU? Because I don’t like it, at all. I don’t think “The EU had sloppy storytelling too!” is a good excuse for the plot of the sequel trilogy.

My preferred saga experience:
TPM/AOTC/ROTS (Hal 9000 edits), ANH/ESB/ROTJ (Despecialized), The Mandalorian.
May the midichlorians be with you.

Author
Time

DuracellEnergizer said:

idir_hh said:

RogueLeader said:
I think it would be cool to get an Old Republic story where we see opposing Jedi philosophies come to a head, not in a violent way, but where we see Jedi debate on the nature of the Force and the dark side. Maybe some Jedi see the dark side as an evil that needs to be purged, where others see it as an aspect of all life that needs to be understood.

That would be great to watch, they can probably pull inspiration from early church history with their theological and doctrinal difference, councils etc .

Too complex and cerebral. People just want white hats and black hats whacking colour-coded glow sticks together.

FTFY (Fixed That For You)

The unfortunate reality of the Star Wars prequel and Disney trilogies is that they will always be around. Forever. They will never go away. It can never be undone.

I also prefer to be referred to as “TNT”, not “Freezing”.

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 (Edited)

FreezingTNT2 said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

idir_hh said:

RogueLeader said:
I think it would be cool to get an Old Republic story where we see opposing Jedi philosophies come to a head, not in a violent way, but where we see Jedi debate on the nature of the Force and the dark side. Maybe some Jedi see the dark side as an evil that needs to be purged, where others see it as an aspect of all life that needs to be understood.

That would be great to watch, they can probably pull inspiration from early church history with their theological and doctrinal difference, councils etc .

Too complex and cerebral. People just want white hats and black hats whacking colour-coded glow sticks together.

FTFY (Fixed That For You)

What?
Why?
Stop?
pls.

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Time

idir_hh said:

FreezingTNT2 said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

idir_hh said:

RogueLeader said:
I think it would be cool to get an Old Republic story where we see opposing Jedi philosophies come to a head, not in a violent way, but where we see Jedi debate on the nature of the Force and the dark side. Maybe some Jedi see the dark side as an evil that needs to be purged, where others see it as an aspect of all life that needs to be understood.

That would be great to watch, they can probably pull inspiration from early church history with their theological and doctrinal difference, councils etc .

Too complex and cerebral. People just want white hats and black hats whacking colour-coded glow sticks together.

FTFY (Fixed That For You)

What?
Why?
Stop?
pls.

My reaction to everything he says.

My preferred saga experience:
TPM/AOTC/ROTS (Hal 9000 edits), ANH/ESB/ROTJ (Despecialized), The Mandalorian.
May the midichlorians be with you.

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FreezingTNT2 said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

idir_hh said:

RogueLeader said:
I think it would be cool to get an Old Republic story where we see opposing Jedi philosophies come to a head, not in a violent way, but where we see Jedi debate on the nature of the Force and the dark side. Maybe some Jedi see the dark side as an evil that needs to be purged, where others see it as an aspect of all life that needs to be understood.

That would be great to watch, they can probably pull inspiration from early church history with their theological and doctrinal difference, councils etc .

Too complex and cerebral. People just want white hats and black hats whacking colour-coded glow sticks together.

FTFY (Fixed That For You)

If “sanitized” = “fixed”, alrighty then.

Divergent Universes
Dreams of a Randy Git-Fiend

Make Off Topic great again.

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I liked the episode. And finally, a conversation began about the economy of this universe. The statement always led me into a stupor. that the Jedi do not own anything, but fly on starships, organize expeditions and other other things.

https://sportegan.com/