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Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * SPOILER THREAD * — Page 170

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Hey, I’m glad you enjoyed my post! I do like your ideas too. I feel like a lot of people would’ve liked if they had emphasized the spy stuff more than they did in the final film.

I know the sleeper agent Finn is sort of campy, but I do feel like that idea would keep the focus on Finn as a character and see how he confronts his own shadow. I know Nando v Movies did a video where he suggested making Rose the spy, which would’ve be been surprising. Alternatively, you could have it just be DJ.

I do think keeping his story on the Raddus could be less visually interesting, but in ANH, one of the big three set pieces was the Death Star, so having the three set pieces of TLJ be Ach-To, Raddus/Supremacy, and Crait would fit in that frame. And then not being able to jump away makes the feeling of them being trapped more serious. I do like the idea you had of them jumping from planet to planet only for the First Order to show up not long after. It would also allow for the audience to actually see more of the state of the galaxy as well. If you had that idea, and also kept their mission to Canto Bight, I think juxtaposition of the frightened allies being attacked by the First Order and the care-free aristocrats on Crait stand out even more.

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Some changes I’d suggest:

  • As everyone else says, make sure it’s obvious Holdo is afraid of traitors
  • Get rid of the stupid “shuttle parkers” gag. If the audience knows the heroes are dumb for doing that, don’t have the heroes do that. Instead maybe have Rose give a starving child some food, and have the authorities think that’s suspicious and follow her as a person of interest.
  • Have the Master Codebreaker and DJ be the same character. Maz Kanata ought to warn our heroes at the start that he doesn’t work for cheap, but Poe & Finn & Rose are so eager to save the Resistance they’ll promise him the moon. Later, the Codebreaker shows up to break them out of prison, after seeing them get captured just as they were about to find him and being intrigued. He’s the one who betrays them on the Finalizer, for money, because he doesn’t think the Resistance is profitable and he’s doesn’t care about the morality.
  • Additionally, I’d imply (but not necessarily state outright) that Snoke is an ancient creature, somebody who was a member of a primeval “First Order” that predates the Jedi and Sith. Perhaps he’s now broken out of some ancient confinement (maybe something on Ahch-To like that giant pit)?

“That Darth Vader, man. Sure does love eating Jedi.”

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Those are great ideas! Honestly it would be nice to call Benecio’s character “The Codebreaker” rather than just DJ, too. I love your idea for Rose too, because 1) it would help people empathize with Rose more, and 2) we could spend some time on those beautiful streets instead of just speeding by them like in the movie.

I like that idea for Snoke, though I wonder if he’ll get mentioned at all in IX.

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RogueLeader said:

Those are great ideas! Honestly it would be nice to call Benecio’s character “The Codebreaker” rather than just DJ, too. I love your idea for Rose too, because 1) it would help people empathize with Rose more, and 2) we could spend some time on those beautiful streets instead of just speeding by them like in the movie.

I like that idea for Snoke, though I wonder if he’ll get mentioned at all in IX.

Post removed by Moderator.

Do NOT post spoilers outside of the relevant threads - New plot spoiler policy - ** please read ** - Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker & The Mandalorian series

Adywan’s Star Wars Revisited edits are to Blade Runner: The Final Cut as the original theatrical releases of the original trilogy are to the original version of Blade Runner.

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Yo, don’t mention the leaks outside the spoiler thread.

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Yikes, I think I’ll disappear from here until the 19th. Catch you on the flippity flip. ✌️

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Yep, wasn’t expecting to see spoilers for TROS in the TLJ thread.

Too late now.

Any reason why you did that FreazingTNT2?

50 Cent is just an imposter

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V.I.N.Cent said:

Yep, wasn’t expecting to see spoilers for TROS in the TLJ thread.

Too late now.

Any reason why you did that FreazingTNT2?

Sorry. :’(

Adywan’s Star Wars Revisited edits are to Blade Runner: The Final Cut as the original theatrical releases of the original trilogy are to the original version of Blade Runner.

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I don’t want to start a debate about the merits or lack thereof regarding TLJ, but I thought this was a surprising revelation with TROS release date approaching:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cinemablend.com/news/2486427/even-john-boyega-was-iffy-with-some-choices-made-in--star-wars-the-last-jedi

“The Force Awakens I think was the beginning of something quite solid, The Last Jedi if I’m being honest I’d say that was feeling a bit iffy for me. I didn’t necessarily agree with a lot of the choices in that and that’s something that I spoke to Mark [Hamill] a lot about and we had conversations about it. And it was hard for all of us, because we were separated.”

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I saw this! Apparently it has been stirring up some shit, this and one or two other things he has said. Elijah Wood said something on twitter about it being unprofessional of him.

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Yeah but after the “I left a script under my bed” story how is this really news and not TROS hype clickbait. Guys it’s okay we’re back as a trio it’s gonna be great!

Yub Nub for life

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I know nobody seemingly talks about this, but there are some scenes that are slowed down (pacing-wise) by lines that tell the viewer how they should react when they already know how they’re supposed to react in said scenes, notably the opening scene where Billie Lourd says “oh no” when a First Order fleet arrives above the atmosphere of the Resistance’s planet.

Adywan’s Star Wars Revisited edits are to Blade Runner: The Final Cut as the original theatrical releases of the original trilogy are to the original version of Blade Runner.

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That is a good video, with a well reasoned articulated take I mostly agree with considering how large the fanbase really is. The only thing I dislike (and to the creator’s point this did start in fairness from the opposition itself and all those annoying overlong video essays) is when those who disliked TLJ are so quickly characterized as disagreeing with its themes. Can’t I just have plain not enjoyed the movie? Personally for me it’s not that the ideas were against my rigidly religious view of the force or Luke Skywalker, I thought the movie had groaner lines flat humor and awkward pacing, great performances with slick visuals but poorly packaged. I don’t rage over TLJ when I watch it I just get bored. I’m a movie fan way way before a Star Wars fan, I didn’t hate the movie for “doing wrong by my Star Wars” if anything I’ll be more forgiving, I didn’t enjoy the overall execution.

Of course that leaves less to talk about ad nauseam over 2 whole years like nerds can when disputing lore, so I can understand how it ended up over time becoming that as the main focus of discussion. Like the video creator states, nitpicking is sort of what that side of youtube is for. Nothing against this particular creator though who seems to have a good head on their shoulders about the whole thing.

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FreezingTNT2 said:

I know nobody seemingly talks about this, but there are some scenes that are slowed down (pacing-wise) by lines that tell the viewer how they should react when they already know how they’re supposed to react in said scenes, notably the opening scene where Billie Lourd says “oh no” when a First Order fleet arrives above the atmosphere of the Resistance’s planet.

You really don’t like that line, do you?

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FreezingTNT2 said:

I know nobody seemingly talks about this, but there are some scenes that are slowed down (pacing-wise) by lines that tell the viewer how they should react when they already know how they’re supposed to react in said scenes, notably the opening scene where Billie Lourd says “oh no” when a First Order fleet arrives above the atmosphere of the Resistance’s planet.

I don’t understand this. Watching a character react to something isn’t telling us how to react.

a trolling bantha

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RogueLeader said:

FreezingTNT2 said:

I know nobody seemingly talks about this, but there are some scenes that are slowed down (pacing-wise) by lines that tell the viewer how they should react when they already know how they’re supposed to react in said scenes, notably the opening scene where Billie Lourd says “oh no” when a First Order fleet arrives above the atmosphere of the Resistance’s planet.

You really don’t like that line, do you?

Of course I don’t. It slows down the pacing of the movie, and it is also pointless given that we already know that it is an “oh no.”

And let me guess, you’ve read my comments on Poppasketti and Hal 9000’s respective edits? ',:I

Adywan’s Star Wars Revisited edits are to Blade Runner: The Final Cut as the original theatrical releases of the original trilogy are to the original version of Blade Runner.

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Appreciate your thoughts, Act on Instinct! I totally think that is fair view.

Off topic, but I read a good comment the other day regarding Finn’s plot in TLJ. A reddit user u/FatherOop, made this suggestion:

My only real issue with it is that, while Finn’s arc is going from just caring about Rey to caring about the larger cause of the Resistance, from the moment he embarks on the quest to Canto Bight, helping the Resistance = helping Rey. His actions are effectively indistinguishable from someone who’s already committed to the Resistance, so the message is not as clear as it could be.

What I think would have worked better (and man do I hate making suggestions like this, but here goes) is if instead of Finn handing the cloaked binary beacon (the thing that lets Rey know their location) to Poe before leaving the Resistance Fleet, Finn actually takes the beacon to Canto Bight. They try and fail to find the Codebreaker (just like in the movie), step out into the balcony (just like in the movie), and Finn reflects something along the lines of

”hey… we’ve failed to find the Codebreaker, and it looks like the Resistance is going to be extinguished. Rose, why don’t we just stay here? Rey will find us here and we’ll all be safe. We could leave everything behind and start a new life.”

And only then does Rose break into her monologue on what she’s fighting for and why they have to defeat the First Order. After that, they get arrested, meet DJ, and the rest of the movie goes on as usual. I feel like just having this moment helps the audience understand that Finn still very much hasn’t joined the Resistance yet, but starts to the more he and Rose connect.

I really like this thought, because it minimally changes the film we got, but it addresses what I think is the heart of the issue with Finn’s story. Where Finn is at the beginning of the versus the end of the film is not as clear as it could have been. I think adding one or two of Finn’s deleted scenes at the beginning of the film, plus making small changes like this, would probably have helped make Finn’s arc clearer.

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FreezingTNT2 said:

RogueLeader said:

FreezingTNT2 said:

I know nobody seemingly talks about this, but there are some scenes that are slowed down (pacing-wise) by lines that tell the viewer how they should react when they already know how they’re supposed to react in said scenes, notably the opening scene where Billie Lourd says “oh no” when a First Order fleet arrives above the atmosphere of the Resistance’s planet.

You really don’t like that line, do you?

Of course I don’t. It slows down the pacing of the movie, and it is also pointless given that we already know that it is an “oh no.”

And let me guess, you’ve read my comments on Poppasketti and Hal 9000’s respective edits? ',:I

I don’t see how a 2 second reaction from a character slows down the pacing in any measurable way.

Plus, as I said above, seeing a character react to something isn’t telling the audience how to react, nor is it pointless.

a trolling bantha

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screams in the void said:

this sums up my thoughts on the film and the fan base very well. To the creator of this video, I say Kudos and drop the mic dude ! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2cBTLsWiDg&fbclid=IwAR1lUEbfBOn5Yr2VPJSfqaLPzlQf5WDqjUQEZEfG46_WMcctzcbjJqODgoI

It’s weird how he complains that TLJ detractors are placing too much emphasis on the Force and then feels the need to construct a diagram to explain TLJ’s own reductive take on this mystical energy. I guess Kylo’s inner turmoil is merely a result of a mathematical equation in which his power must turn positive to oppose the negative energy of Snoke in the absence of Luke. I guess Luke’s refusal to reform the Jedi was based on the scientifically proven law of Sithgenesis in the face of Jediliferation, which only a fool would ignore. I guess the prequel Jedi, in wishing to bring balance to the Force, were clearly wishing for their own destruction based on their belief that no Sith existed to counterbalance Jedi light. I guess I just wish the Force could be a nebulous mystical power again and not constrained by talk of Midichlorians or reductive agency-stealing math problems.

What a grand and intoxicating innocence. How could you be so naive? There is no escape. Come, lay down your weapons. It is not too late for my mercy.
A New Hope Technicolor Recreation (Released!)
The Force Awakens Restructured (V3 Released!) and The Starlight Project (WORKPRINT RELEASED!)

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Who knew all you need to understand the Force is simple addition and subtraction?

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Ha yes I did find that funny as well they seem to at first claim the problem is fans drawing lines in the sand then sort of draw their own, again just because you can fit the puzzle pieces together like that doesn’t make it not sloppy. Definitely the force seems to be at the heart of it but I feel like the author nearly misses their own point when explaining its tie to gratifying character development, and our suspension of disbelief which can be based on internal logic rather than explicit realism.

NeverarGreat said:
I guess Kylo’s inner turmoil is merely a result of a mathematical equation in which his power must turn positive to oppose the negative energy of Snoke in the absence of Luke (…) constrained by talk of Midichlorians or reductive agency-stealing math problems.

That really hits the nail on the head for me, you put it so well. When Snoke said that line I really remembered feeling talked down to, like I’m just supposed to accept it because the math checks out, later I think the author does the same in mixing arcs and character traits.

Sure if you are empathetic to Rian Johnson’s vision (this is if you don’t already like the movie) and look through his lens you can see where it was coming from, but I hardly see people do the same for Zack Snyder when he attempts his own interpretation on legacy characters that have already been rebooted. To me there’s a lot of fashion bundled in with the whole thing. Of course, need it be restated, you’re free to enjoy all of it or none of it or anywhere in between.

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ChainsawAsh said:

FreezingTNT2 said:

RogueLeader said:

FreezingTNT2 said:

I know nobody seemingly talks about this, but there are some scenes that are slowed down (pacing-wise) by lines that tell the viewer how they should react when they already know how they’re supposed to react in said scenes, notably the opening scene where Billie Lourd says “oh no” when a First Order fleet arrives above the atmosphere of the Resistance’s planet.

You really don’t like that line, do you?

Of course I don’t. It slows down the pacing of the movie, and it is also pointless given that we already know that it is an “oh no.”

And let me guess, you’ve read my comments on Poppasketti and Hal 9000’s respective edits? ',:I

I don’t see how a 2 second reaction from a character slows down the pacing in any measurable way.

Plus, as I said above, seeing a character react to something isn’t telling the audience how to react, nor is it pointless.

Her emotions were conveyed visually on-screen (before the line), so there was no need to have her say “Oh no.” Plus, the viewers can just react to the “boom” sound for themselves, making the line even more pointless.

What I mean by “it slows down the scene” is that the scene literally pauses just to have a girl say “oh no”, when we can just skip straight from the “boom” sound to the shot of her seeing a First Order fleet arrive above the atmosphere of D’Qar.

Adywan’s Star Wars Revisited edits are to Blade Runner: The Final Cut as the original theatrical releases of the original trilogy are to the original version of Blade Runner.

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FreezingTNT2 said:

ChainsawAsh said:

FreezingTNT2 said:

RogueLeader said:

FreezingTNT2 said:

I know nobody seemingly talks about this, but there are some scenes that are slowed down (pacing-wise) by lines that tell the viewer how they should react when they already know how they’re supposed to react in said scenes, notably the opening scene where Billie Lourd says “oh no” when a First Order fleet arrives above the atmosphere of the Resistance’s planet.

You really don’t like that line, do you?

Of course I don’t. It slows down the pacing of the movie, and it is also pointless given that we already know that it is an “oh no.”

And let me guess, you’ve read my comments on Poppasketti and Hal 9000’s respective edits? ',:I

I don’t see how a 2 second reaction from a character slows down the pacing in any measurable way.

Plus, as I said above, seeing a character react to something isn’t telling the audience how to react, nor is it pointless.

Her emotions were conveyed visually on-screen, so there was no need to have her say “Oh no.”

This seems like a bizarre thing to fixate on to me.

a trolling bantha