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Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * SPOILER THREAD * — Page 169

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DrDre said:

Funny, reading some of the comics, and having some debates here have helped me accept what is, and let go of what might have been. I watched TLJ the other day, and I actually enjoyed it for the most part.

Very cool.

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RogueLeader said:

Hey man! Happy to hear you enjoyed it some more in your most recent viewing! Hope your day is going well.

Do you think you just enjoyed it more in a general sense, or were there specific things that you noticed you kinda liked this time around?

I found I really enjoyed the Luke/Rey/Kylo/Snoke dynamic this time round.

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DrDre said:

RogueLeader said:

Hey man! Happy to hear you enjoyed it some more in your most recent viewing! Hope your day is going well.

Do you think you just enjoyed it more in a general sense, or were there specific things that you noticed you kinda liked this time around?

I found I really enjoyed the Luke/Rey/Kylo/Snoke dynamic this time round.

That’s easily the most interesting part of the movie.

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There’s a problem I don’t see anyone talk about: ever notice how almost anytime the movie needs to suddenly go somewhere else, a character is stunned unconscious? Poe, Finn (twice), Kylo, Leia, and Rose are all knocked out so the scene can move to another location across the galaxy. It’s almost like the writers don’t know how to end a scene, so they just knocks out a character to take a nap. It’s like watching The Room: the reason every scene ends with “Oh, I’ve gotta go” and cuts to a location shot is because Tommy Wiseau is lazy and has no idea how to switch from scene to scene.

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FreezingTNT2 said:

There’s a problem I don’t see anyone talk about: ever notice how almost anytime the movie needs to suddenly go somewhere else, a character is stunned unconscious? Poe, Finn (twice), Kylo, Leia, and Rose are all knocked out so the scene can move to another location across the galaxy. It’s almost like the writers don’t know how to end a scene, so they just knocks out a character to take a nap. It’s like watching The Room: the reason every scene ends with “Oh, I’ve gotta go” and cuts to a location shot is because Tommy Wiseau is lazy and has no idea how to switch from scene to scene.

I think if you actually examine the instances where those characters are knocked out you’ll notice your thesis isn’t really accurate in anyway.

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DominicCobb said:

FreezingTNT2 said:

There’s a problem I don’t see anyone talk about: ever notice how almost anytime the movie needs to suddenly go somewhere else, a character is stunned unconscious? Poe, Finn (twice), Kylo, Leia, and Rose are all knocked out so the scene can move to another location across the galaxy. It’s almost like the writers don’t know how to end a scene, so they just knocks out a character to take a nap. It’s like watching The Room: the reason every scene ends with “Oh, I’ve gotta go” and cuts to a location shot is because Tommy Wiseau is lazy and has no idea how to switch from scene to scene.

I think if you actually examine the instances where those characters are knocked out you’ll notice your thesis isn’t really accurate in anyway.

I wouldn’t say in any way. Sure, the scene doesn’t always cut to one across the galaxy afterwards, but it’s true that this movie has a ton of people being knocked out to the point where it feels like a screenwriting crutch.

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NeverarGreat said:

DominicCobb said:

FreezingTNT2 said:

There’s a problem I don’t see anyone talk about: ever notice how almost anytime the movie needs to suddenly go somewhere else, a character is stunned unconscious? Poe, Finn (twice), Kylo, Leia, and Rose are all knocked out so the scene can move to another location across the galaxy. It’s almost like the writers don’t know how to end a scene, so they just knocks out a character to take a nap. It’s like watching The Room: the reason every scene ends with “Oh, I’ve gotta go” and cuts to a location shot is because Tommy Wiseau is lazy and has no idea how to switch from scene to scene.

I think if you actually examine the instances where those characters are knocked out you’ll notice your thesis isn’t really accurate in anyway.

I wouldn’t say in any way. Sure, the scene doesn’t always cut to one across the galaxy afterwards, but it’s true that this movie has a ton of people being knocked out to the point where it feels like a screenwriting crutch.

I mean, that’s a different argument than the one I responded to.

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Can anyone tell me why Kylo suddenly changes from wanting to build a new order and let the past die to just deciding to be in charge of the First Order? It is not at all clear what prompts this change of heart.

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Rey rejecting him, right? I thought that was pretty clear.

a trolling bantha

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I don’t remember Kylo ever saying anything about wanting to destroy the First Order. In his “let old things die” speech, he mentioned Snoke, Luke, the Sith, the Jedi, and the Rebels, but he never mentioned the First Order.

Myself, the boy, two droids, and no questions asked.

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StarkillerAG said:

I don’t remember Kylo ever saying anything about wanting to destroy the First Order. In his “let old things die” speech, he mentioned Snoke, Luke, the Sith, the Jedi, and the Rebels, but he never mentioned the First Order.

Fixed my comment.

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The First Order is the new order he’s talking about. He’s already part of it, and now he’s running it. He wants her to join him so they can run it together.

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Yeah, I agree with Ash that Rey rejecting his offer made Kylo regress into his old ways. He speaks of letting the past die, but his failure on Crait demonstrated that he hasn’t really let go of the past. He might mold the First Order into this ideal he wants to achieve in IX, though, but from what we’ve seen it seems like he is still regressing.

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Maybe the reason he suddenly changed in-between these two scenes is because he was manipulating Rey?

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Broom Kid said:

The First Order is the new order he’s talking about. He’s already part of it, and now he’s running it. He wants her to join him so they can run it together.

This. He’s the Supreme Leader now. How else would he stir shit up and rule the galaxy if he didn’t have an empire he was in control of?

But also this

ChainsawAsh said:

Rey rejecting him, right? I thought that was pretty clear.

Rey’s rejection is definitely a set back. In a way it perhaps mirrors Anakin’s proposal to Padme to overthrow the Emperor and take over the galaxy. Once she says no, it takes a toll. Looks like this will likely be explored in TROS.

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FreezingTNT2 said:

Can anyone tell me why Kylo suddenly changes from wanting to build a new order and let the past die to just deciding to be in charge of the First Order? It is not at all clear what prompts this change of heart.

Directorial musical chairs.

“That Darth Vader, man. Sure does love eating Jedi.”

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ATMachine said:

FreezingTNT2 said:

Can anyone tell me why Kylo suddenly changes from wanting to build a new order and let the past die to just deciding to be in charge of the First Order? It is not at all clear what prompts this change of heart.

Directorial musical chairs.

Within one movie? News to me.

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He decides to be in charge of the First Order the second he decides he’s going to kill Snoke. Which happens before he gives that ‘let the past die’ speech. The past he’s talking about doesn’t include the First Order, because that’s his present.

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I haven’t looked very deeply into the making of TLJ but at some point I was led to believe the original cut was longer and some scenes were moved around at some point. Not atypical but I did personally find the final pacing odd, maybe tightening the already longest episode so far in the saga accounts for some of the character motivations not feeling perfectly in sync for everyone? Depending on how things were moved.

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act on instinct said:

I haven’t looked very deeply into the making of TLJ but at some point I was led to believe the original cut was longer and some scenes were moved around at some point. Not atypical but I did personally find the final pacing odd, maybe tightening the already longest episode so far in the saga accounts for some of the character motivations not feeling perfectly in sync for everyone? Depending on how things were moved.

All films have an initial cut that’s longer than the finished product. With TLJ, though, it’s easier to see what was cut due to the fact that they actually included most (if not all) of the deleted scenes on the BD, and you can also easily tell how far into the process they were cut by how finished the effects are. As well, some of the deleted scenes clue you into earlier, different sequencing of the film (like, originally cutting back to Leia and the Resistance after Rey explains the situation to Luke, rather than staying with them on the island).

As for the final result, because those scenes are available, you can pretty much decide for yourself if tightening it up hurt or helped.

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Are there other examples beyond not cutting back to the Resistance? I’m mostly sticking to scenes being moved and how the original script momentum is vs the theatrical edit. Crait was the real point where it felt too long and almost came across as an addendum chapter, of course it also contains some of the most vital pieces of the movie.