Sign In

Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * SPOILER THREAD * — Page 163

Author
Time

MalàStrana said:

Indeed but Rey couldn’t see his surroundings as well, and their last meeting was fully on Rey’s side. Besides, if Snoke created the link, how come he doesn’t know Rey’s location either ?

The force has always allowed connections of sorts between people, even if they don’t necessarily know where from. It’s a mystical energy.

Author
Time

DominicCobb said:

MalàStrana said:

Indeed but Rey couldn’t see his surroundings as well, and their last meeting was fully on Rey’s side. Besides, if Snoke created the link, how come he doesn’t know Rey’s location either ?

The force has always allowed connections of sorts between people, even if they don’t necessarily know where from. It’s a mystical energy.

didn’t snoke actually know though? he threatened to go to the island before he got killed, unless i am forgetting my movie facts.

Author
Time

Yep but only after he “mind probed” Rey to know Luke’s wherabouts.

“I have to say that I felt George’s group of six films had more innovative visual imagination, and this film was more of a retrenchment to things you had seen before and characters you had seen before, and it took a few baby steps forward with new characters.” - James Cameron about Episode VII.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

MalàStrana said:

Yep but only after he “mind probed” Rey to know Luke’s wherabouts.

Yeah. Thing is if one considers what Snoke says in that scene, finding Luke is no longer the priority. His plan is to test Kylo’s faith by bringing Rey to him and having him kill her (getting rid of Luke is just the secondary tying up of loose ends). As usual with dark siders, his overconfidence ends up being his weakness.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

DominicCobb said:

MalàStrana said:

Yep but only after he “mind probed” Rey to know Luke’s wherabouts.

Yeah. Thing is if one considers what Snoke says in that scene, finding Luke is no longer the priority. His plan is to test Kylo’s faith by bringing Rey to him and having him kill her (getting rid of Luke is just the secondary tying up of loose ends). As usual with dark siders, his overconfidence ends up being his weakness.

Surely one of these days one of the Sith is gonna realize they keep going in circles… 😛

Or is that just the power of the spooky dark side?

Maul- A Star Wars Story

Author
Time

OutboundFlight said:

DominicCobb said:

MalàStrana said:

Yep but only after he “mind probed” Rey to know Luke’s wherabouts.

Yeah. Thing is if one considers what Snoke says in that scene, finding Luke is no longer the priority. His plan is to test Kylo’s faith by bringing Rey to him and having him kill her (getting rid of Luke is just the secondary tying up of loose ends). As usual with dark siders, his overconfidence ends up being his weakness.

Surely one of these days one of the Sith is gonna realize they keep going in circles… 😛

Or is that just the power of the spooky dark side?

well, spinning IS a good trick…

Author
Time
 (Edited)

I think this very well made two part review and critical analysis of TLJ is all that will ever need to be said about the movie and it’s list of failings which at this point doesn’t seem to even have an end in sight. It’s in the vein of the RLM reviews with the reviewer even affecting the same Plinkett drawl and similar humour while claiming to be his grandson:

Part 1: https://youtu.be/9Ugp8F7KefE

Part 2: https://youtu.be/yKT2LFtjI24

It is lengthy though no where near Mauler’s 3 part 5hr+ marathon which is great but a lot of time to sink into the deconstruction of a movie and the level that Mauler take’s it to nearly loses it relevancy anyway.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

This guy’s is still 3 hours. I dunno, you nitpick something long enough anything’s gonna fall apart. Also, this guy’s brand seems to be all about trashing Disney, and Star Wars in particular. Just doesn’t seem super unbiased. But to be fair I haven’t listened to it yet so I’ll give it a listen sometime. Regardless, thanks for sharing Val!

Author
Time

When the analysis is longer than the movie, I have to wonder if that way lies madness. Even the loony Room 237 is shorter than The Shining itself!

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

Author
Time

No probs RL and yes 3hrs is still a long watch but if youve watched any of the Red Letter Media Plinkett reviews then it’s nothing out of the norm. Its also structured and broken up enough that its not just one massive slog.

Most of his issues seem pretty straight forward and logical to me, some I’m sure are also added just for laughs as a lot of the video is tongue in cheek and playing up the Plinkett grandson character.

If you’re someone though that likes or loves the movie and cant listen to valid criticisms without getting angry then you’re not likely to find any of it funny and I’d probably recommend you don’t watch it. (That’s more of a general statement for anybody looking to watch them)

Author
Time

SilverWook said:

When the analysis is longer than the movie, I have to wonder if that way lies madness. Even the loony Room 237 is shorter than The Shining itself!

Not at all and when a movie has this many issues and on so many levels (whether you agree or not that it does is beside the point since its the opinion of the reviewer that determines the video content), the analysis is bound to be longer than the movie itself. It all just depends on how thorough you want to be in breaking it down on screen, explaining it for those who the issue may not be apparent for and how this makes you arrive at the opinion you hold.

Author
Time

I just don’t think I have that kind of time to devote to film dissection. This site is enough of a time sink as it is. 😉

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

Author
Time

I dont doubt you on that one and Im not on here anywhere near as much as I used to be.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

This guy has done a pretty comprehensive video on some of the more negative, maybe even toxic elements, of click bait fandom, especially about The Last Jedi:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MM-3lw9bIjE

video by Maj0r Lee

I am sure not everyone will agree with it (and I don’t fully), but it is worth posting here for those that wish to see an alternative take, on some of the more unjust or outlandish criticism of modern Star Wars, and also how some within also twist and contort what is, or has, actually being said by people working on Star Wars or at Lucas film, to try and prove or further their view or agenda.

Tighten Up and then turn it all the way up to 11!

Author
Time

Biggs Audio Dynamite said:

This guy has done a pretty comprehensive video on some of the more negative, maybe even toxic elements, of click bait fandom, especially about The Last Jedi:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MM-3lw9bIjE

video by Maj0r Lee

I couldn’t stop laughing through that mate - a funny and insightful overview on some of the more hyperbole-filled, clickbait and toxic ‘fan’ monetised media/channels out there that have made a mini-business from peddling hate, division, bullshit and perpetual negativity around TLJ - and then took into the wider Star Wars content.

One of the guys featured literally threw his toys to the floor - and admits the number one reason they talk about Kathleen Kennedy is because it gets hits (facts, accuracy, balance & any semblance of responsibility don’t seemingly matter), and does it because he wants the views.
 

That some people have spent considerable time, hour after hour, week after week, watching these type of repetitive, toxic and sprawling clickbait videos featured in the above video - which have been for coming up to two years now - making money for hating on something Star Wars (TLJ especially) - man…

(and some of them claim to have only watched the actual film once or twice - yet have been over-the-top slating it - and the minutiae within the film for nearly two years.)
 

Life is too short - consider getting out from in front of the computer and try to find something you do like, love or enjoy - maybe talk about that? Or experience new things - other films, tv, music, games etc… or even other forms of entertainment? 'Cos repeatedly spreading hate and negativity for two years hasn’t put people off from watching what they enjoy. Is the latest two-hour+ video from a ‘I hate Disney / SJW / KK / RJ etc’ channel really going to contain insightful information previously not seen - or views not discussed before? Is this video the definitive one? Will it feature views and facts that make people who previously thought the films were somewhere between meh, mixed, okay-to-great etc - to now not like them?

Probably not.

Just seems to be yet more repeating and reinforcing previous arguments - peddling hate, division, bullshit and perpetual negativity - without facts, balance or responsibility - in a bid to get their slice of the clicks and revenue. With a seemingly loyal and unquestioning fanbase of their own doing their own publicity for them - again and again and again.

Though… erm… fair play if they enjoy that sort of thing.

 

I do feel for the people and channels that have had genuine and valid criticisms of the film and talked about them in a measured, balanced and factual manner - because unfortunately youtube didn’t list those sites high up on people’s ‘recommended’ channels - nor did they receive the publicity or views that those channels likely deserved.
 

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

I find that answer vague and unconvincing. Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves?
Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? And say something righteous and hopeful for a change?

Author
Time

That video should be required viewing for everyone who comes here to peddle bullshit, hate, and racism. Even if half of the assholes featured actually believe their own misogyny and racism, it’s still too many. Our culture has become toxic and this is an extension of it. The louder voices, like Zero, are just tending to their herd and keeping them angry. I almost feel sorry for their followers. I’m going to have to keep that link handy for when I’m banning trolls.

Likewise for your above response, Jason. You summed up everything that (unfortunately) needs to be repeated from time to time. People need to go outdoors occasionally. I’ve a mind to make that an announcement post. If I thought it could be done, it would be a required read before a new account is able to participate.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

"Why are you here, Rey from nowhere?”

Author
Time
 (Edited)

I think that video is a reflection of our society these days. I remember watching some of these youtubers in their early days, when their videos were driven mostly by content, and their criticisms were still ankered in reality. However, like many populist politicians, they are no longer interested in balanced discussion. They are interested in rabble-rousing, and catering to the lowest common denominator among their supporters. However, I think it is a mistake to point to them as some root cause of evil. They are a symptom of a culture, that is driven more, and more by polarization, victory at all costs, and a lack of respect for alternative points of view. It is a sad state of affairs, that a franchise that once united people from all walks of life in their fandom, is now a linchpin in this bizarre culture war. I’m watching “The Clinton Affair”, and I’m was immediately struck by this statement by Monica Lewisky, which I think, is very apt in this situation:

“They see everything through partisan eyes, and there’s very little room for humanity”.

Author
Time

Biggs Audio Dynamite said:

This guy has done a pretty comprehensive video on some of the more negative, maybe even toxic elements, of click bait fandom, especially about The Last Jedi:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MM-3lw9bIjE

video by Maj0r Lee

I am sure not everyone will agree with it (and I don’t fully), but it is worth posting here for those that wish to see an alternative take, on some of the more unjust or outlandish criticism of modern Star Wars, and also how some within also twist and contort what is, or has, actually being said by people working on Star Wars or at Lucas film, to try and prove or further their view or agenda.

Ugh, I feel bad for that one dude with the “Super Dad” plaque’s kid.

Author
Time

I think the video is every bit as bad as what he’s supposedly railing against (if not worse). Lest I be accused of being ‘toxic’ myself, let me reiterate that I’m left-leaning, drink soy milk, and despise what the internet has become. But this video is exactly the kind of smug clickbait crap that he’s supposedly taking a stance against. Any idiot can pull quotes from the likes of Jeremy from Geeks and Gamers and build an entire case around it. This is ridiculous. We have to get away from this stupid Star Wars tribalism and let each argument be assessed on its merit and intent, rather than these insane ‘us vs them’ rampages on both ‘sides’.

By the way MajorLee debated Mauler and crew on a series called EFAP and couldn’t answer/justify any of the legitimate concerns (ie plot holes, lore, character arcs etc etc) concerning TLJ. His default was along the lines of an exasperated “I don’t care, I just love this movie”. And that’s fine, but to then turn around and push this particular narrative, when he knows full well that there are wide ranging and legitimate views concerning these films, is disingenuous at best. He is literally being just as petulant a fanboy as those he seeks to bring down.

Don’t be fooled by the fact that you might agree with his sentiment.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

While I think a video like this is long overdue, I do agree with Maul that this creator stoops to their level at times, which I think will struggle to bring over people who might be on that dangerous side of the fandom.

I think there are a lot of YouTubers who do have criticisms of the new movies, but they discuss it pretty maturely. They point out their problems with it and then move on to other topics that they enjoy more. This guy is clearing pointing out some of the more toxic creators who might not have the best motivations, and I think that is good.

While I don’t think it makes his viewpoint any less valid, I think resorting to the occasional insult or name-calling really doesn’t help make his points seem legitimate. The thing is, there are probably a lot of younger people who are Star Wars fans, especially boys, that are being introduced to concepts like social justice and feminism through these people, which, in my opinion, is probably not the best introduction to those ideas.

It literally boils down to these people stirring the pot for as revenue, and suddenly you have millions of people repeating those talking points like gospel.
Another YouTuber he didn’t even mention was Vito, who I think has some pretty clear political opinions, and I know at least one of his TLJ videos has 6 million views. That’s crazy.

Maybe we’re blowing it out of proportion, but I just wonder how it (among other things conjured by the Great Algorithm) could be influencing the beliefs and values of the Gen Z audience watching these videos. Really Star Wars is just a drop in the bucket of a larger issue that has been discussed recently. But it does seem any kind of civil discussion on either side is overshadowed by what basically feels like amateur yellow journalism, but on a global scale.

Also, debating any of those people is a wasted effort. I don’t agree with Ben Shapiro, but he is a master debater, and can make any of his opinions seem right with his skill. It’s just more of the same tactics and strategies for them that they have basically perfected to a T through their ridiculously long videos.

Author
Time

Youtube definitely hasn’t even seen the full results of the impact their algorithms have for better and for worse. I’m disappointed the community pushes for this quantity over quality, most of these people have maybe a few good points or at least their own perspectives but they have to keep putting out videos if it’s going to net them regular income. Youtube has become a daily commentary community and rambling rabble rousers is the consequence.

This is as good a time as any to say this place is like a strange oasis of older internet discourse, from a more civilized age…

Author
Time

We’re retro and proud of it!

Well, maybe not this retro. 😉

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?