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Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * SPOILER THREAD * — Page 47

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I still think that a list of elements that the story had to contain probably came from higher-ups. I still cannot believe that either JJ or Kasdan would be so unoriginal and willingly completely rehash OT.

真実

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imperialscum said:

I still think that a list of elements that the story had to contain probably came from higher-ups.

If anything that list probably only consisted of:

  • TIE Fighters/X-Wings

  • Original cast returning

  • Diverse cast

though I’m sure they contributed to story development in other ways. Probably telling JJ and Kasdan what they couldn’t do.

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There is literally no reason to believe that any higher ups would give a prerogative to “rehash” the original. “Because it will make more money” is bullshit.

JJ and Kasdan told the story they wanted to tell, which was a new version of an old tale for a new generation. Literally every bit of evidence points to the higher ups being very hands off. Disney doesn’t mess with their properties like that. They know that the best way to “make money” is to hire people who are going to make good content and leave them alone to do it.

If you don’t like the direction they took, fine. But don’t start making shit up to “explain” why they didn’t make the exact film you wanted them to make.

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It was not merely about “making more money”. It was about 4 billion investment. I guess they wanted to go by the “proven recipe” to ensure they did not throw away 4 billion. Yet again, they should not have worried as PT had already proven that if you attach “Star Wars” label just to any kind of shit it will make tons of money. TFA proved that once again.

We may never know who actually decided to completely rehash OT and it is quite irrelevant at this point. What matters in the end is the fact is that they ended up completely rehashing OT, in a bad way.

真実

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Their reasons are their own all that really matters now is that Rian Johnson brings us another great addition to the saga.

Steering the conversation actually towards TLJ:

are these Daisy’s eyes? I’m not sure exactly what this would have to do with Rey unless she turns to the Dark Side or something but I think it would be interesting as hell to delve into the rationales of our villains. Perhaps not to the point where we sympathize with them but to the point where we get where they’re coming from. There was a bit of this in Krennic and although briefly touched on it was one of my favorite parts of Rogue One.

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I think Rian likes messing with people on social media.

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That looks like a vintage movie still to me.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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Admittedly the picture of Daisy (?) could be complete misdirection but “The Nature of Evil” parts has to pertain to something that will be explored in TLJ. I don’t see why else Adam Driver would keep mentioning something about terrorism and both sides being justified in what they’re doing.

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You can see print on the opposite side of the page. A book, perhaps?

EDIT: Hmm, quick google shows that Casino Royale has a chapter 20 titled The Nature of Evil.

Anyone here a Bond fan?

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Yes, but I seem to have mislaid my copy of Casino Royale. I don’t recall it using that typeface, but they did do new editions of all the Fleming books since I bought CR twelve or so years ago. Could easily be the newer printing.

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Looked the chapter up online (http://www.wenovel.com/book/1500/44197.html) and there are some lines that could be relevant to TLJ.

‘You see,’ he said, still looking down at his bandages, ‘when one’s young, it seems very easy to distinguish between right and wrong, but as one gets older it becomes more difficult. At school it’s easy to pick out one’s own villains and heroes and one grows up wanting to be a hero and kill the villains.’

'For those two jobs I was awarded a Double O number in the Service. Felt pretty clever and got a reputation for being good and tough. A double O number in our Service means you’ve had to kill a chap in cold blood in the course of some job.
‘Now,’ he looked up again at Mathis, 'that’s all very fine. The hero kills two villains, but when the hero Le Chiffre starts to kill the villain Bond and the villain Bond knows he isn’t a villain at all, you see the other side of the medal. The villains and heroes get all mixed up.

History is moving pretty quickly these days and the heroes and villains keep on changing parts.

Could be hinting that morality in TLJ won’t be so black and white. Or I could be completely off-base and this has nothing to do with Casino Royale.

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Verboten said:

You can see print on the opposite side of the page. A book, perhaps?

EDIT: Hmm, quick google shows that Casino Royale has a chapter 20 titled The Nature of Evil.

Anyone here a Bond fan?

‘You see,’ he said, still looking down at his bandages, ‘when one’s young, it seems very easy to distinguish between right and wrong, but as one gets older it becomes more difficult. At school it’s easy to pick out one’s own villains and heroes and one grows up wanting to be a hero and kill the villains.’

That’s from chapter 20 of Casino Royale. Bond is telling Mathis that he is going to resign. I’m a bit of a fan. Heck, we named our daughter “Vesper”. 😃

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I hope they don’t some shit twist where Rey becomes evil and ren becomes good, that would be an epic fail!

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IP55 said:

I hope they don’t some shit twist where Rey becomes evil and ren becomes good, that would be an epic fail!

That’s nice.

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DominicCobb said:

They wrote the script very much together. That’s just a fact. JJ had final say obviously as he was the director but it was a complete collaboration.

And honestly, JJ’s track record in recent years is far superior to Kasdan’s.

JJ’s track record is that he can’t write endings. He’s great with characters but he sucks at overall story telling. He did great characterizations for the Star Trek films but the stories lack anything of genuine Star Trek and the endings make about as much sense. I literally hate those films. The PT are gold in comparison. I rate TFA as the worst Star Wars movie because of all the flubs that I attribute to JJ and his bad editing decisions as director and his bad input as writer. Rian Johnson at least has a track record of writing good stories that keep audiences interested. JJ’s great at characters and action, but he isn’t a very good story teller. At least Lucas was good at that. Kasdan has a good track record. I have no question on his ability to tell a story which I why I look forward to the Han Solo movie. I’ve liked all of the movies he has written that I have seen.

And there are potential spoilers for TLJ out there. There are some leaked set photos and some juicy plot points that are born out by casting.

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The only set photos that are remotely spoilerish are the photos of the black figures on planet Ireland. That along with the anundance of water that got brought to that set has led people to speculate that this scene could possibly be the rumored battle between Luke, Rey, Kylo and the KoR. But then again that’s still not full on spoilers as what they were shooting could be just a dream sequence or something involving the rumored Force Tree.

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How was the ending of TFA bad? The final scene with her and Luke was amazing.

It seems like people are really embracing the new characters. In fact, the big question people ask me now about Star Wars is, “Are Finn and Poe gay lovers?” And really how the f*ck would I know? My second husband left me for a man, so my gaydar isn’t exactly what you’d call Death Star level quality. ----Carrie Fisher

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lovelikewinter said:

How was the ending of TFA bad? The final scene with her and Luke was amazing.

It left me with a burning itch to know how their first conversation played out. I think that’s the sign of a good ending but some prefer immediate gratification and that’s fine too.

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Lord Haseo said:

lovelikewinter said:

How was the ending of TFA bad? The final scene with her and Luke was amazing.

It left me with a burning itch to know how their first conversation played out. I think that’s the sign of a good ending but some prefer immediate gratification and that’s fine too.

It did not leave even the slightest desire to hear them talk because TFA storyline is utter shit. The whole story is effectively unrelated to Luke. If it was done correctly, Luke’s disappearance would be the central driving force of the plot. The plot should have slowly built up the suspense with clues and mysteries regarding his disappearance. Something like that would make the last scene meaningful and make the audience burning with anticipation. As it is now, it is just some random unrelated scene. Truly a horrible ending to a horrible storyline.

Take a look at KOTOR how this kind of thing (mystery, suspense, etc.) is done properly.

真実

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Yeah but when you hire a movie star for tens of millions of dollars, you have to rewrite and tailor the entire script for him. The biggest problem with TFA is all the unnecessary screen time that Harrison got. The nonsense with him and Leia and their “son” was just a waste of time.

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Alderaan said:

Yeah but when you hire a movie star for tens of millions of dollars, you have to rewrite and tailor the entire script for him. The biggest problem with TFA is all the unnecessary screen time that Harrison got. The nonsense with him and Leia and their “son” was just a waste of time.

It was not just a waste of time but it completely ruined the plot, like many other useless elements like super weapon, etc.

真実

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imperialscum said:

Lord Haseo said:

lovelikewinter said:

How was the ending of TFA bad? The final scene with her and Luke was amazing.

It left me with a burning itch to know how their first conversation played out. I think that’s the sign of a good ending but some prefer immediate gratification and that’s fine too.

The whole story is effectively unrelated to Luke. If it was done correctly, Luke’s disappearance would be the central driving force of the plot.

But it was. Your lying isn’t going to change the nature of the matter.

The plot should have slowly built up the suspense with clues and mysteries regarding his disappearance. Something like that would make the last scene meaningful and make the audience burning with anticipation. As it is now, it is just some random unrelated scene. Truly a horrible ending to a horrible storyline.

That’s one way they could have done it but it definitely isn’t the only viable option of making a plot revolving around finding Luke work. Get your head out of your ass.

Take a look at KOTOR how this kind of thing (mystery, suspense, etc.) is done properly.

A plot twist and finding a character at the end of a story are two different things man.

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Alderaan said:
The nonsense with him and Leia and their “son” was just a waste of time.

I’m going to regret asking this but why did you put quotes around the word “son”?