Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * SPOILER THREAD * — Page 22

I prefer consistency, a darker tone and better themes being at play than what the SW script had. Also I can poke more holes in the SW script while I can only really nitpick with ESB’s script.

yhwx said:

I don’t think that movies should be judged on any sort of ‘world building’ quality: They should be judged by the actual movie, context be damned.

Yeah but you’re missing the point. ESB out of context is nothing without the context of SW. So if you base it just on that movie itself it isn’t quite as great as SW by itself with its world building.

Whether or not you prefer ESB, XWHY’s point doesn’t make sense.

yhwx said:

Empire is an objectively better movie than all anime, tentacles be damned.

WYSHS

Rian has given us a plethora of new info about Episode VIII. For starters for the first time in the Star Wars Saga this film will begin right where the last one left off. I think this is perfect because it is uber important to see the first interaction with Luke and Rey. Though I would like to see a time jump within the film that shows the ending of Kylo’s training and the continuation of Rey’s.

Aside from that Episode VIII will be very character oriented. Our characters will be developed even further and will be challenge immensely (which coincides with what Oscar Issac said earlier this year about the characters being tested). So for anyone who thought Rey got it easy in TFA will not need to worry because like Luke before her she will go through her trials and tribulations.

This bodes very well for the film and I am even more excited to see it.

http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2016/07/seven-things-we-learned-about-star-wars-episode-8/

Empire may not be objectively the best but it is most certainly empirically the best. No debate there.

Frank your Majesty said:

darthrush said:

A character oritented episode 8 is exactly what I want.

What? Focusing on the characters for the second part of a trilogy? Huge Empire rip-off. Worst movie of all time.

Aren’t all SW movies focused on the characters ?

Some more than others. Luke, Han and even Vader were fleshed out quite a bit more in comparison to the other films in the OT. Even when including the AOTC all of the returning characters with the exception of Anakin didn’t really develop much further from where they were in TPM.

I think both SW/ANH and ESB have cases to be made that they’re the best. It depends on what criteria you’re judging by. I don’t think ESB being “darker” or more of a character study automatically gives it a win any more than SW being the world builder or original means it’s better.

For me, SW’s biggest advantage from a filmmaking perspective is that it is perfectly paced. It is textbook setup and execution of plot, the result of which is an endlessly rewatchable film. It’s also just plain fun. It manages to, in a very short time, create characters that you really get attached to and really get invested in their fates. And, yes, it sets up an entire universe extremely different from our own with wild alien creatures and something mysterious called “the force” in a clear and natural way, so that it really feels like a living and breathing world. It really transports the audience to another world and captures its imagination like no film before or since ever has, and that right there is the key to its success. There is certainly something to be said for that.

Weak spots are typical for Lucas: Dialogue and acting. Though I think the missteps in both are highly overstated. It actually has a lot of great dialogue and acting, particularly from Ford, Guiness, and Cushing. But there are WTF moments as well (I’m looking at you, Leia’s weird English accent), though we’ve all come to love them of course.

ESB’s biggest advantage is that it raises the stakes in an extremely gripping way. It manages to avoid all the pitfalls sequels are typically prone to. It isn’t simply a repeat of the first film, it doesn’t feel tacked on or pointless. It genuinely feels like a natural, exponential continuation of the first film. It makes the characters and their motivations deeper and more human. We got to know and care about them in the first film, but now we really see them as fully fleshed (and flawed) people rather than simple caricatures or archetypes. Even (especially) the villain. It also throws the characters into challenging situations and, by extension, it challenges the audience. It’s not a simple story of good triumphing over evil this time. There are moments that will make you feel genuine doubt about the outcome and terror for the characters’ predicaments. And, yes, the twist ending was iconic on many levels.

Biggest flaw is that it still can’t overcome the inherent problem with being the middle film in a trilogy: There is no beginning or resolution. It doesn’t provide any sense of closure at all, ending on a cliffhanger. You have to watch the next film to get the whole story, and the first film to have any sense of what’s going on in the first place. It’s almost unfair to fault the film for this, as there is pretty much no way around it (though I will say that I think The Dark Knight managed to pull it off), but that doesn’t change the fact that it can’t work as a standalone film the way Star Wars can. I could sit down and watch SW over and over again, feeling completely satisfied from start to finish each time, but in order to watch ESB I’m going to have to commit to also watching the other two films in order to have context. I’m probably not just going to watch or rewatch it by itself. Also, compared to SW, the pacing drags a bit in some of the middle sections. Not much, but some. It feels like a longer movie despite being the same length.

Overall, which one I think is better depends on my mood. I will say that SW makes me a lot happier when I watch it, but ESB gives me a deeper sense of “damn this is good.”

So on Rian Johnson’s twitter feed, he’s said that apparently his source of creative inspiration was Spielberg movies, Raiders in particular. https://twitter.com/rianjohnson/status/756798427242135553

Could be interesting, could be a terrible idea. Might mean we get another storm trooper that tries to baton Finn a la FN-2199, only to be shot.

I’m not. He’s going to clearly rehash stuff from these films!