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Tyrphanax said:
darklordoftech said:
Tyrphanax said:
ratpack1961 said:
The question of "Is it Star Wars without Darth Vader or Luke" is a great one when it comes to the Episodic movies. The first six movies have in some way been about Vader. That may be Lucas retconning (it was always about Vader) but the truth is the Skywalker and Vader characters have always been a part of those movies.
If we watch all six films together, it sort of makes sense that its the rise and fall of Darth Vader because that's how Lucas structured them in the end. The OT by itself is about Luke and Vader with the others as side characters. With ep. 7, where does the series go? Isn't the main character (according to Lucas) now gone? Why even have an ep. 7 if the story is done? Both of the main bad guys are done. If you're supposed to watch all the episodes together, won't 7-9 seemed tacked on without one of the villains from ep. 1-6 showing up?
The one thing I think that's missing from Ep. 1 is Vader. I like that film but there is a definite absence there that I think caused people to not think of it as a Star Wars film and I don't think it has to do with Han or Luke missing either. In ep. 2 Vader starts to show up in subtle ways and then in ep. 3 makes his full appearance. I believe the reason people liked ep. 3 the most out of the prequels (meaning casual audiences) is because of Vader. He's that huge of a character. Think of it this way. You can make a good Star Wars story without Vader (KOTR, some EU) but they will always pale to the ones that have Vader in them since he is so crucial to Star Wars itself.
And with this post, the thread goes full TFN.
What do you mean?
I mean that, come on, are people on on OT.com really considering the infamous TFN stance that without some Darth Vader connection, Star Wars isn't Star Wars? That just because the new trilogy may not fit with Lucas' "Tragedy of Darth Vader" retcon, it's not worthwhile?
Maybe the new film is about trying to live with the shadow of Vader's legacy hanging over them. Maybe Luke is a hermit now, ostracized because of his connection to Vader and the thought that if Jedi can go bad and do what Vader did, the galaxy would be better off without them.
darklordoftech said:
Correct, plus nobody besides hardcore fans knows or cares about characters like Boba and Revan.
At least the former is untrue. I would argue that Boba Fett has become almost as recognizable and popular as Darth Vader is, to the detriment of his character.
Aside from that, I know plenty of Star Wars fans who I wouldn't classify as "hardcore" who know plenty about Boba and Revan.
Who said that if the episodes don't fit with the tragedy of Darth Vader that its not worthwhile? I'm stating that factually every episode so far has involved that character in one way or another. If ep.7 goes in an entirely new direction then any hopes that there is a coherent story going on is thrown out the window and its just random episodes where stuff happens like some comic book series.
Thats not a TFN opinion where we have to follow Lucas' dogma. It's going off factually what we've seen in every episode so far. And if you think that characters like Maul or (gasp) the night sisters hold a candle to Vader, then it is you who belong on TFN :)
