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Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Discussion * SPOILER THREAD * — Page 207

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I’m an enormous fan of Rey’s theme. Kylo’s worked well but there wasn’t much to it. The rest was serviceable. I’m just happy there weren’t huge swaths of score copy-and-pasted from earlier scenes/movies like there were in the prequels. That said, my biggest lump-in-the-throat, goosebumps moment was the note-for-note Force theme arrangement from when Luke finds Owen and Beru dead in Star Wars when Rey pulls the saber out of the snow.

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Yeah, none of the new themes grabbed me, but I might buy the soundtrack and delve a little deeper. I was actually a little disappointed at that entire piece from Episode IV being re-used during the aforementioned Rey scene.

I wasn’t super stoked about yet another Death Star, not totally sold on Snoke, but overall, a much grittier, more “real”-feeling, more Star Wars-y movie than we’ve seen since '83. WAY better story telling than anything since Empire, IMO.

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The novelization is apparently filling in some holes left from the film along with some new things not seen in the movie- (thanks to Darth_Monopoly for the following post)-

The opening is Leia wondering where Luke is and trying to call out to him that she needs him.

-Snoke mentions having seen the Empire rise and fall. If that was in the movie then I missed it.

-Leia is informed of the FO’s attack on Jakku and Poe’s assumed death. She is upset and does not want the FO to find Luke before they do. She knows that BB-8 is still missing so she asks 3PO to activate his tracker to find him. She then sends her envoy to the Senate in the Hosnian system to ask for help, explaining that she cannot go herself because while she still has friends there she would likely have an unfortunate “accident” because many there do not like her.

-There is a scene with 3PO talking to the low power R2 where he is basically talking to himself but asking what R2 would do, because he forgot to activate BB-8’s tracker before he left on the mission. He decides to send a message to all active Resistance droids to be on the lookout for BB-8.

-We get a scene of Poe waking up after the crash. He has a concussion and it turns out that he got out of the TIE after crash landing it and wandered away before collapsing and it’s just bad luck that Finn didn’t find him. There’s a whole sequence where he meets a scavenger who decides to help him and then they are attacked by other scavengers and Poe pilots a speeder showing off his skills again to get away.

-Unkar Plutt finds Rey at Maz’s Castle. He found them because he had a homing device on the Falcon. Rey tries to use her blaster on him but the safety is on. Chewie intervenes and tears Plutt’s arm off. It’s at this point that a droid sees BB-8 and sends a message to the Resistance.

-Then there’s a quick scene with 3PO receiving the message and informing Leia of BB-8’s whereabouts. These 3PO scenes are both good but I think I prefer his first appearance in the movie.

-A scene of Leia being informed of the the destruction of the Hosnian system and feeling the deaths of all the people in the Force. And she thinks about how no one should be subjected to the death of an entire world but she had been subjected to two and she would not allow it to happen again.

-Also, it’s not as easily seen in the sky above the Castle. That was one of my problems with the movie was that it made it appear that they were in the same system.

-Confirmed Han and Leia are husband and wife.

-General Hux launches something called seekers to take out the attacking X-Wings on Starkiller Base. He’s warned that they will take down TIEs too but he claims that collateral damage will be necessary to win.

-There’s a chase sequence involving the stolen snow speeder that Rey and Finn use to get to the oscillator.

-Kylo Ren removing his mask for Han is the first time Han has seen his son as a grown man. Also, Han debated leaving without confronting him but didn’t because he wanted to fulfill Leia’s request.

-Poe does not fly into the oscillator and there is no “trench run”. His pilots simply bomb the hole that the detonators exposed.

-Hux rescues Kylo Ren and could have taken Finn and Rey but there was no time and his instructions from Snoke took precedence. He assumed they would die there anyways.

-The doctor tells Rey that Finn will be fine although he is in a medically induced coma and nothing is certain until he fully recovers.

-R2 has the rest of the map because he catalogued the Imperial archives. He overheard a discussion of how Kylo Ren had said that they held the rest of the map because it was in the archives. He then powers up and displays the map.

-Rey has a conversation with Leia before she leaves where Leia promises her that she will not share the fate of her son.

-Rey extends the lightsaber towards Luke as an offer and a plea because he’s the galaxy’s only hope. She wonders what will happen next.

http://boards.theforce.net/threads/the-force-awakens-novelization-thread-spoilers-allowed-please-tag.50035672/

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R2-918 said:

The novelization is apparently filling in some holes left from the film along with some new things not seen in the movie- (thanks to Darth_Monopoly for the following post)-

The opening is Leia wondering where Luke is and trying to call out to him that she needs him.

Not saying this should have been the opening of the movie, but some acknowledgment or demonstration of Leia using or attempting to use her force powers would have been welcome. It’s the one thing explicitly promised in ROTJ.

When they finally display R2’s map piece and Leia says, “Luke!”, I thought (actually, said out loud to myself in the theatre): “He’s your twin! Why do you need a map? Why don’t you at least try to reach out to him with the Force?”

It was the #2 thing that turned me off the film, next to Han’s nihilistically cruel end.

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hydrospanner said:

Was anyone else disappointed by the film’s score? None of the music really grabbed me like it did in the previous films.

I was and mentioned it in my review. Today I listened the soundtrack itself and other than Rey’s theme it’s a complete mess of different noises with a few familiar themes added, even those aren’t allowed to be what they once were but with more or less to make some kind of impact of nostalgia or something. At least the PT had some themes going for them. I really wished and wanted it to be better but…

And in the time of greatest despair, there shall come a savior, and he shall be known as the Son of the Suns.

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ZkinandBonez said:

BTW, did anyone else get the same feeling that I did while watching the film that Adam Driver’s performance as Kylo Ren is more or less what Anakin should have been like in the PT?

100%, that’s one of the first things I said coming out. Confused and angry > whiny and creepy.

The Hobbit - The Spence Edit

Completed:

Frank Herbert’s Dune - The Spence Edit
The Hobbit - The Spence Edit

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So, I was discussing this with my gf yesterday, and I think she came up with a pithy one-liner that really captures everything I was trying to express - Lucas never understood what made his original movies great, but that’s ALL that Abrams knows.

Aside from that, I was disappointed that there was not one discernible theme that was brand spankin’ new and captured me in an awesome way. This is a first for a Star Wars movie. And if you would have asked me yesterday, I would have told you that even if the movie was crappy, at least the music would be totally awesome. Real shocker.

“I find your lack of faith disturbing.”

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SpenceEdit said:

ZkinandBonez said:

BTW, did anyone else get the same feeling that I did while watching the film that Adam Driver’s performance as Kylo Ren is more or less what Anakin should have been like in the PT?

100%, that’s one of the first things I said coming out. Confused and angry > whiny and creepy.

If by Anakin you are meaning Darth Vader… after his turn and before he got the suit and was hunting down Jedi in secret… which we should have seen in the prequels then I would agree.

Anakin Skywalker was a noble Jedi, the best star pilot in the galaxy, a cunning warrior, and a good friend right?

I guess what I am getting at is I wouldn’t have wanted to see him portrayed as angry and confused and throwing a tantrum when things go wrong until well after his character was established as the way it was originally described.

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Come to think of it the only time we are ever even really shown Anakin’s great piloting skills in a real dog fight on screen is in ANH as Vader in the suit during the Death Star battle… when he wasn’t even written into the part of being Luke’s father yet… How sad is that.

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hydrospanner said:

Come to think of it the only time we are ever even really shown Anakin’s great piloting skills in a real dog fight on screen is in ANH as Vader in the suit during the Death Star battle… when he wasn’t even written into the part of being Luke’s father yet… How sad is that.

Winning the Podrace, destroying the Trade Federation Command Centre, Battle of Coruscant? Or are you just referring to the OT? Because in that case that line about his skills was referring to a then dead character to set-up Luke having inherited his skills, hence justifying Luke’s sudden piloting skills during the Death Star attack at the end of ANH.

Original Trilogy Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Beyond the OT Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Star Wars is Surrealism, not Science Fiction (essay)
Amazon link to my first novel; Dawn of the Karabu.

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So here’s my question since we aren’t 100% sure if Rey is Luke’s daughter.

a) Rey is the daughter of Luke Skywalker.
b) Rey is the daughter of Leia & Han and we weren’t told yet.
c) Rey is the offspring of someone else.

“This will begin to make things right.” Lor San Tekka

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ZkinandBonez said:

hydrospanner said:

Come to think of it the only time we are ever even really shown Anakin’s great piloting skills in a real dog fight on screen is in ANH as Vader in the suit during the Death Star battle… when he wasn’t even written into the part of being Luke’s father yet… How sad is that.

Winning the Podrace, destroying the Trade Federation Command Centre, Battle of Coruscant? Or are you just referring to the OT? Because in that case that line about his skills was referring to a then dead character to set-up Luke having inherited his skills, hence justifying Luke’s sudden piloting skills during the Death Star attack at the end of ANH.

I did say in a dog fight did I not? Sure he drives the podracer pretty well, but I don’t think that really qualifies as showing him as “the best star pilot in the galaxy”. What did he do in the Trade Federation battle other than that neat little spinning trick… he was a little kid who just kind of lucked into destroying the command center no? What does he do in the battle of Corsuscant? I can’t really recall much besides getting some buzz droids on his ship and crashing into a hangar.

The way Vader surgically disposes of the rebel fighters in the first Death Star battle is far cooler than anything we see Anakin doing in the prequels… I always imagined him doing something similar before his turn with him coming to save the day for the good guys. I remember my first viewing of ROTS thinking we were finally going to get something like it in that battle at the beginning and just ended up being extremely disappointed.

It is just funny is all that in my mind his best moments as a “star pilot” comes from scenes when he wasn’t even intended to be the same character and that nothing even came close in the 3 movies where he was intended to be shown as that great pilot that Obi-Wan referenced.

So yes it is sad that the Vader we see in ANH better presents the qualities of Luke’s father that Obi-Wan speaks of when it is a complete coincidence given that he was a separate character at the time. It just shows how much the prequels failed to deliver on expectations.

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ZkinandBonez said:

hydrospanner said:

Come to think of it the only time we are ever even really shown Anakin’s great piloting skills in a real dog fight on screen is in ANH as Vader in the suit during the Death Star battle… when he wasn’t even written into the part of being Luke’s father yet… How sad is that.

Winning the Podrace, destroying the Trade Federation Command Centre, Battle of Coruscant? Or are you just referring to the OT? Because in that case that line about his skills was referring to a then dead character to set-up Luke having inherited his skills, hence justifying Luke’s sudden piloting skills during the Death Star attack at the end of ANH.

Luke piloting skills aren’t sudden. He is established as being a good pilot in his own right. Ben refers to it, and Luke talks about his skill in shooting womp rats from his T-16 Skyhopper in the pre battle briefing with Wedge. Biggs vouches for him with Red Leader in the scene partially restored to the SE.

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hydrospanner said:

ZkinandBonez said:

hydrospanner said:

Come to think of it the only time we are ever even really shown Anakin’s great piloting skills in a real dog fight on screen is in ANH as Vader in the suit during the Death Star battle… when he wasn’t even written into the part of being Luke’s father yet… How sad is that.

Winning the Podrace, destroying the Trade Federation Command Centre, Battle of Coruscant? Or are you just referring to the OT? Because in that case that line about his skills was referring to a then dead character to set-up Luke having inherited his skills, hence justifying Luke’s sudden piloting skills during the Death Star attack at the end of ANH.

I did say in a dog fight did I not? Sure he drives the podracer pretty well, but I don’t think that really qualifies as showing him as “the best star pilot in the galaxy”. What did he do in the Trade Federation battle other than that neat little spinning trick… he was a little kid who just kind of lucked into destroying the command center no? What does he do in the battle of Corsuscant? I can’t really recall much besides getting some buzz droids on his ship and crashing into a hangar.

The way Vader surgically disposes of the rebel fighters in the first Death Star battle is far cooler than anything we see Anakin doing in the prequels… I always imagined him doing something similar before his turn with him coming to save the day for the good guys. I remember my first viewing of ROTS thinking we were finally going to get something like it in that battle at the beginning and just ended up being extremely disappointed.

It is just funny is all that in my mind his best moments as a “star pilot” comes from scenes when he wasn’t even intended to be the same character and that nothing even came close in the 3 movies where he was intended to be shown as that great pilot that Obi-Wan referenced.

Fair enough.
However to continue being nitpicky I think he did a bit more than knocking off the buzzdroids in ROTS, however I see your point.
Then again the Clone Wars cartoon, and probably the CGI series as well but I never saw that, had him in a some dogfights. But, like I said, Ben referring to Anakin as the best star-pilot he’d ever met was just a bit of backstory and not meant to mean anything else than setting up Luke as also being a good pilot. But you are right, it would have been pretty cool to have seen another dogfight like the one from ANH. But after having seen in in ANH, I guess there wasn’t any good reason to do it again. As for the PT, well, I don’t think I really need to add anything to that discussion. All I’ll say is that there’s a surprisingly small focus on the actual Clone Wars in the movies about the Clone Wars.

Original Trilogy Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Beyond the OT Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Star Wars is Surrealism, not Science Fiction (essay)
Amazon link to my first novel; Dawn of the Karabu.

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Does anyone know the crawl text, I missed the first few lines.

Can someone explain to me what happened to the crashed tie fighter?
Finn pulled Poe’s jacket from the tie wreck and then it just sinks into the sand and a big dust cloud goes up into the air. It was really weird scene and didn’t really make sense to me.

Kylo ren’s hissy fits were hilarious.

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SilverWook said:

ZkinandBonez said:

hydrospanner said:

Come to think of it the only time we are ever even really shown Anakin’s great piloting skills in a real dog fight on screen is in ANH as Vader in the suit during the Death Star battle… when he wasn’t even written into the part of being Luke’s father yet… How sad is that.

Winning the Podrace, destroying the Trade Federation Command Centre, Battle of Coruscant? Or are you just referring to the OT? Because in that case that line about his skills was referring to a then dead character to set-up Luke having inherited his skills, hence justifying Luke’s sudden piloting skills during the Death Star attack at the end of ANH.

Luke piloting skills aren’t sudden. He is established as being a good pilot in his own right. Ben refers to it, and Luke talks about his skill in shooting womp rats from his T-16 Skyhopper in the pre battle briefing with Wedge. Biggs vouches for him with Red Leader in the scene partially restored to the SE.

I realize that, that was actually kind of my point. However, as far as what we the audience see in the film he doesn’t actually pilot anything, except for the speeder, until the film’s climax. Having an actual scene with him in his Skyhopper would have ruined the films pace, so they threw in those lines to establish his skills in the dialogue so that it would make sense later when he saves the day as a pilot.

However, I’ll admit that I did phrase it in a somewhat weird way.
And if you missed that dialogue as a kid, which I did (as a Norwegian with poor English skills at the age of seven a lot of the ‘plot’ went over my head), then his skills will seem to kind of appear out of nowhere.

Original Trilogy Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Beyond the OT Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Star Wars is Surrealism, not Science Fiction (essay)
Amazon link to my first novel; Dawn of the Karabu.

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RossDaBoss said:

Does anyone know the crawl text, I missed the first few lines.

Can someone explain to me what happened to the crashed tie fighter?
Finn pulled Poe’s jacket from the tie wreck and then it just sinks into the sand and a big dust cloud goes up into the air. It was really wired scene and didn’t really make sense to me.

Kylo ren’s hissy fits were hilarious.

Hilarious for sure, but I think in a good way (for the character).

http://www.vulture.com/2015/12/star-wars-the-force-awakens-opening-crawl.html

Luke Skywalker has vanished.
In his absence, the sinister
FIRST ORDER has risen
from the ashes of the Empire
and will not rest until Skywalker, the last Jedi,
has been destroyed.

With the support of the REPUBLIC,
General Leia Organa leads a brave RESISTANCE.
She is desperate to find her
brother Luke and gain his
help in restoring peace and
justice to the galaxy.

Leia has sent her most daring
pilot on a secret mission
to Jakku, where an old ally
has discovered a clue to
Luke’s whereabouts . . . .

“This will begin to make things right.” Lor San Tekka

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RossDaBoss said:

Does anyone know the crawl text, I missed the first few lines.

Can someone explain to me what happened to the crashed tie fighter?
Finn pulled Poe’s jacket from the tie wreck and then it just sinks into the sand and a big dust cloud goes up into the air. It was really wired scene and didn’t really make sense to me.

Kylo ren’s hissy fits were hilarious.

Rey warned BB-8 that there were dangerous areas where the sand could swallow you up.

I like that the movie took it’s time to establish what a crummy life she was living on a planet that’s arguably a bigger desolate hole than Tatooine. (Luke had it a lot better.) And that she could have easily left if not for the fading hope someone was coming back for her. Kind of heart breaking.

The troopers who decide to change direction as Kylo is losing his temper was really funny.

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SilverWook said:

Rey warned BB-8 that there were dangerous areas where the sand could swallow you up.

Ahh ok that makes sense… dont know how I missed her saying that? I must be getting old.

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towne32 said:

You’re right. Someone who was present for all of the Freighter/Falcon stuff was a major leak.

The shot of Maz handing someone (previously presumed Leia) the lightsaber wasn’t in the film, was it? They used a different shot, and it was Rey. Makes sense as I’m sure they were no where near finished with Maz and needed something that obscured her. Still, why show it during ‘my sister has it’?

Why was the voice over used at all? “The force is strong in my family… you have that power too?” In the context of the film and what is explicitly stated, Kylo Ren’s the only one that fits the bill. But Rey’s the new hope. So that’s one of the main reasons (in addition to a few solid hints throughout the film) that I think Rey is most likely Luke’s daughter.

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RossDaBoss said:

SilverWook said:

Rey warned BB-8 that there were dangerous areas where the sand could swallow you up.

Ahh ok that makes sense… dont know how I missed her saying that? I must be getting old.

A new Star Wars movie is a lot to absorb on first viewing. Which is why we have to go see it several times. 😉

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TK428 said:

So here’s my question since we aren’t 100% sure if Rey is Luke’s daughter.

a) Rey is the daughter of Luke Skywalker.
b) Rey is the daughter of Leia & Han and we weren’t told yet.
c) Rey is the offspring of someone else.

I am leaning towards A or C being the most likely. She spent half the movie with Han so if B were the case he either didn’t know it was his daughter he had found or for some reason kept it concealed. Han and Leia talk about their son quite a bit, with no mention of a daughter.

In the flashback they showed her being left on Jakku as a very small child… so this would have presumably been before Kylo turned to the dark side and killed all the Jedi, so she likely wouldn’t have been hidden from Kylo unless they are brother and sister but end up not being twins and she is in fact several years younger.

I think A is probably the most likely… why is she drawn towards a lightsaber that based on what we know now has only been used by people with the Skywalker name. With her being the one to find Luke after he has vanished for so long it sure seems they are setting it up that way.

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Artoo “waking up” when she’s nearby is also a subtle hint.

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SilverWook said:

Artoo “waking up” when she’s nearby is also a subtle hint.

Was she not around the first time R2 was shown in rest?

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Still captured at the time.

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