Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * SPOILER THREAD * — Page 10

NeverarGreat said:

ATMachine said:

yhwx said:

TV’s Frink said:

ATMachine said:

“Who is Luke Skywalker? It’s better for the mystery if the audience never finds out, really.”

What is this even supposed to mean.

I think it means that Robert Patrick should have directed Episode IX.

Heh!

Abrams’ answer to Kathleen Kennedy’s question “who is Luke Skywalker” is supposedly what got him the gig to direct TFA in the first place. Unless his answer was “a mystery box,”

I think we have our answer.

Snark aside, why not? The movie is a quest to find Luke, so I’m guessing the pitch was something along the lines of ‘Luke means different things to different people, as his legend has grown. It’s not my job to give you the definitive version of the Jedi Returned.’

I can almost admire that.

Yeah. If the sequel trilogy is to be the story of the new generation rather than the old (which is what it should be), than the question of “who is Luke Skywalker?” literally is far less pertinent than the question of “who is Luke Skywalker to these new character?”

I actually seem to remember the conversation with Kennedy and Abrams being the other way around. Kennedy used the question to convince Abrams to take on the project. He was fascinated by the idea of a character asking who Luke Skywalker was (Rey - this line of course evolving with the script to become “Luke Skywalker? I thought he was a myth.”).

I think many here really underestimate JJ Abrams. Personal tastes aside, he put Star Wars back on the map in a way not even Lucas was able to do with his PT. He deliberately set out to create a story of a NEW set of characters in a familiar setting.
All Star Wars films up till TFA heavily relied on the same set of familiar faces: Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Yoda, Palpatine, R2-D2, C-3PO, etc. TFA was the first Star Wars film not to feature any of these characters for the first third of the film, and by the time Han and Chewie boarded the Millenium Falcon, although a welcome sight, I didn’t really miss any of these iconic characters. TFA has been criticized for being to derivative for sure, but most viewers agree they really wanted to see where these new characters are going, and I think that is a big achievement in a franchise that has been defined by the same familiar faces for the past four decades.

As far as I’m concerned JJ did have a plan for TFA, and given those parameters it worked out very well both critically and financially. I trust he will come up with a plan for episode IX.

JJ’s movie was a mystery box. Until you opened it up and saw what dumb **** was inside.

I hadn’t seen that anecdote before, but totally unsurprising that the director of a film with no vision would claim that the characters and movie are whatever you want them to be.

It’s hard to believe the same minds who picked Rian Johnson to bring the story into new and bold places are bringing JJ back to finish it. It wreaks of desperation and it might have been more advantageous to delay the film further so that Rian can recharge his battery. Either that or scour the Earth for a more competent writer and just have JJ direct.

Tack said:

Lord Haseo said:

Either that or scour the Earth for a more competent writer and just have JJ direct.

That would be a decent solution. I can admit JJ’s writing is nothing that gets me too excited exactly. However, I think he’s the kind of director where the script makes or breaks the final product. It is fair to mention that both the Trek films he directed also had two terrible Hollywood writers. Although '09 was better… So maybe their work is just on a spectrum.

Then again they also wrote ‘The Legend of Zorro’ and ‘Transformers’ so I don’t know what to believe.

JJ has definitely gotten more shit thrown at him than he deserves, but even with Kasdan he still couldn’t produce a great script. I can sense JJ’s influence in the bad aspects of TFA and the rest of the ST doesn’t need to be plagued with a writer who’s that hit or miss. To be blunt, the elements that will make Star Wars thrive for decades to come isn’t in JJ’s skill set.

imperialscum said:

DrDre said:

I think many here really underestimate JJ Abrams.

We do not need to estimate anything. He made TFA and it sucked big time.

To you I suppose. Don’t see how that’s really relevant to the rest of us who enjoyed the movie, and actually have a vested interest in seeing this trilogy completed?

Tobar said:

ATMachine said:

Abrams’ answer to Kathleen Kennedy’s question “who is Luke Skywalker” is supposedly what got him the gig to direct TFA in the first place.

What is this based on? The accounts I’ve heard from both Kennedy and Abrams themselves is that Kennedy basically begged Abrams to take the job on multiple occasions before he finally relented.

It’s amazing how much conjecture, speculation, and rumor, often completely disproven, is taken as fact by so many people here.

DrDre said:

imperialscum said:

DrDre said:

I think many here really underestimate JJ Abrams.

We do not need to estimate anything. He made TFA and it sucked big time.

To you I suppose. Don’t see how that’s really relevant to the rest of us who enjoyed the movie, and actually have a vested interest in seeing this trilogy completed?

Impscum, Alderaan, and Mala (to a lesser extent since she seems to enjoy fanedits) exist in this place entirely to tell other people how wrong they are for liking the things they like.

(Since no one is posting in the thread we created just to talk about this very topic free of spoilers):

I’ve been processing this news since first hearing it via text from my sister yesterday a little before noon. She simply wrote “JJ’s at it again.” I knew what she most likely meant, immediately checked my go-to movie news website for confirmation that he had indeed been hired, and simply replied “nooooo.”

Look, JJ coming back to finish this is probably for the best, all things considered. It’s just disappointing that LFL is going back to the tried and true instead of letting us see another director’s vision of this universe for the first time. Will people remember this as the JJ Abrams Star Wars trilogy even though someone else made the middle one, the same way many people still think George directed the entire OT?

Maybe a better comparison is a tv show where one of the proven directors comes back to helm the finale. We’re already seeing that kind of thing in the Marvel movies, with the Russo brothers handling Avengers 3 and 4. Speaking of which, now that Disney’s pushed Ep9 back to December they needn’t worry about releasing the grand conclusions of their two big franchises in the same month.

Don’t get me wrong, I’d still take this over Trevorrow directing. I can’t help but wonder if Carrie’s absence was something he just didn’t know how to work around.

DominicCobb said:

yotsuya said:

Let’s start with Lost. When you create a series as intriguing as that, you really need a clear idea of where you are going. So regardless of how long Abrams was involved, the lack of an ending falls on his shoulders.

No. What the fuck, that literally makes no sense. TV shows are created all the time with no idea of what an ending might be. Abrams has nothing at all to do with whether you like the end of Lost or not. That’s just so fucking stupid.

Oh really? I know quite a few series that have very definite story lines and they story, though changed somewhat, ends pretty much as originally intended. The best example is Babylon 5. Lost setup a scenario that should have been known from the beginning. And any good writer knows that the best way for the ending to pack a punch is to know the ending when you start out. You work toward it, you have plenty of opportunity to throw in hints and foreshadowing, and really build it up. Abrams has no concept of this and that makes him incompetent. He has proven this over and over again.

yotsuya said:

DominicCobb said:

yotsuya said:

Let’s start with Lost. When you create a series as intriguing as that, you really need a clear idea of where you are going. So regardless of how long Abrams was involved, the lack of an ending falls on his shoulders.

No. What the fuck, that literally makes no sense. TV shows are created all the time with no idea of what an ending might be. Abrams has nothing at all to do with whether you like the end of Lost or not. That’s just so fucking stupid.

Oh really? I know quite a few series that have very definite story lines and they story, though changed somewhat, ends pretty much as originally intended.

You apparently don’t understand that the phrase “all the time” doesn’t mean “always every time.”

Lord Haseo said:

Tack said:

Lord Haseo said:

Either that or scour the Earth for a more competent writer and just have JJ direct.

That would be a decent solution. I can admit JJ’s writing is nothing that gets me too excited exactly. However, I think he’s the kind of director where the script makes or breaks the final product. It is fair to mention that both the Trek films he directed also had two terrible Hollywood writers. Although '09 was better… So maybe their work is just on a spectrum.

Then again they also wrote ‘The Legend of Zorro’ and ‘Transformers’ so I don’t know what to believe.

JJ has definitely gotten more shit thrown at him than he deserves, but even with Kasdan he still couldn’t produce a great script. I can sense JJ’s influence in the bad aspects of TFA and the rest of the ST doesn’t need to be plagued with a writer who’s that hit or miss. To be blunt, the elements that will make Star Wars thrive for decades to come isn’t in JJ’s skill set.

Before TFA, Lucas had crafted all the stories. Lucas knows how to write an ending. Abrams doesn’t. I consider the Ach-to segment in TFA to be discardable epilogue. Kasdan is a good screen writer, but it was Lucas who created TESB and ROTJ, not Kasdan. Lucas has sole story credit on all 6 films. What IX needs is a good story and for Kennedy to hounds Abrams to follow the story and not do his own thing. He is a good director, but a bad story teller. This could work, but knowing how Hollywood works, the chances are slim.

Worst director choice IMO. Good business decision for Kathleen cause they are in a hurry with this but terrible artistically.

Some of us loathed The Force Awakens for it’s lack of originality (and major plot holes) and some worried people are asking Rian in Twitter if Ep 8 is going to be Ep5 all over again. The first trailer at least didn’t have any shots resembling anything really new except for Luke’s lines. A good studio president would keep her ear to the ground about these things and hire people with some artistic vision and let them carve out something new. But no, she hires the One trick remake- man again.

Colin maybe had some original ideas and didn’t see the point directing something so closely aping old movies but Kennedy might have an exhaust port narrow view of ”what is Star Wars” so he got fired?

At lest I can have a twisted satisfaction of JJ trying to come up with explanations to his own mysteries he set up. It has been revealed recently what I suspected, that they had no plan about the story beyond 7. Jar jar just threw bunch of crappy mysteries to EP 7 and bailed leaving the others to sort it out. But now he has to deal with some of it. But I wouldn’t be surprised if he just copped out of them by ignoring some of the mysteries or answering them as vaguely as possible.

Only interest for me at this point in the new trilogy is seeing if they give Luke some badass scene using force in new big way. I’m not sure it’s in TLJ and I have no hope that JJ delivers that in 9.

If this sequel trilogy continues to play it super safe it has NO merits of it’s own.

yotsuya said:

DominicCobb said:

yotsuya said:

Let’s start with Lost. When you create a series as intriguing as that, you really need a clear idea of where you are going. So regardless of how long Abrams was involved, the lack of an ending falls on his shoulders.

No. What the fuck, that literally makes no sense. TV shows are created all the time with no idea of what an ending might be. Abrams has nothing at all to do with whether you like the end of Lost or not. That’s just so fucking stupid.

Oh really? I know quite a few series that have very definite story lines and they story, though changed somewhat, ends pretty much as originally intended. The best example is Babylon 5. Lost setup a scenario that should have been known from the beginning. And any good writer knows that the best way for the ending to pack a punch is to know the ending when you start out. You work toward it, you have plenty of opportunity to throw in hints and foreshadowing, and really build it up. Abrams has no concept of this and that makes him incompetent. He has proven this over and over again.

I really disagree with this point of view. Many if not most series are created without knowing what the ending will be. Hell, most of the time they don’t even know how many seasons there will be, since this will depend heavily on the success of the series. Just a few highly acclaimed series that were created this way are: The Sopranos, Game of Thrones, Breaking Bad, and many more. Many of the best series grow organically, without the limitations of fixed end games. You want to know why so many prequels suck? It’s because the writers have to work towards a known ending. I think the best way to create a memorable series is by creating memorable characters, and have them drive the story towards an end game.

Yeah but you don’t even know what facts are.

Or how subject-verb agreement works.

Some people love to hate, and I am very happy for them that JJ Abrams is back.

sorry…but empire strikes back is nothing special in the story department(in fact i would argue that many of the awful habits of the post empire strikes back franchise was born in empire strikes back)…it was kasden, not lucas who made empire strikes back awful story work for the most part.

empire strikes back gave the I AM YOUR FATHER TWIST which fucking destroyed darth vader and made him a boring caricature

imperialscum said:

TV’s Frink said:

Impscum, Alderaan, and Mala (to a lesser extent since she seems to enjoy fanedits) exist in this place entirely to tell other people how wrong they are for liking the things they like.

I have never ever told anyone that he/she is wrong for liking whatever they like. I do not care in the slightest if people like bad stuff like TFA.

its still better than the twilight level awful that is only liked because of the 80s return of the jedi