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Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * SPOILER THREAD * — Page 96

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MikeWW said:

SilverWook said:

If one invests time in an lengthy animated series in which he appears. The character ought to be able to stand alone without benefit of watching TCW.

You keep bringing up the show for no reason. Pretty much everything contextual we learn about him comes from one movie. And it’s more than we get with Snoke.
Plus he’s not even played by Lee in that show and he’s still fun to watch, so there goes that.

What did we learn about him in AOTC other than he was Qui-Gon’s master, left the Jedi for some reason, and now henches for Sidious? Even Lucas can’t seem to decide if he’s totally evil at times.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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 (Edited)

SilverWook said:

MikeWW said:

SilverWook said:

If one invests time in an lengthy animated series in which he appears. The character ought to be able to stand alone without benefit of watching TCW.

You keep bringing up the show for no reason. Pretty much everything contextual we learn about him comes from one movie. And it’s more than we get with Snoke.
Plus he’s not even played by Lee in that show and he’s still fun to watch, so there goes that.

What did we learn about him in AOTC other than he was Qui-Gon’s master, left the Jedi for some reason, and now henches for Sidious? Even Lucas can’t seem to decide if he’s totally evil at times.

Exactly. We learn his former employer, his current employer, his organization’s plan and and his role in said plan, in his former master and how that relates him to our main characters, and we learn through subtext(?) that he followed Anakin’s potential trajectory of leaving for political reasons and then becoming corrupted by Sidious.
Also Lucas was not wishy washy with Dooku at all. He was a bad dude who wasn’t always bad.

With Snoke we learn that he corrupted Ben Solo, and that he commands the “First Order”, whatever they are.

Unlike Dooku also, Snoke is mostly a walking question mark.
Why was this super powerful dude (as evidenced by Luke hiding) not doing anything during the first six films?

The most we learn about Snoke comes from the new EU. All the stuff about him having a ring from Vader’s castle and being from the unknown regions etc isn’t even in the movies.

And now he’s dead so even an 11th hour exposition dump won’t really help your point since Serkis won’t be playing him again.

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What’s unclear with Dooku are his motivations. He reveals Sidious’s plot to Kenobi, but then we learn he’s actually working for Sidious, so why did he reveal the plan? For the majority of AOTC we are lead to believe that he is seeking civil war against the Republic (for independence I guess? Unclear the Separatist motivations), and then we find out he’s enacting out Sidious’s orders. So we are I guess left to believe it’s just galaxy domination/Sith at last getting revenge? Which is fine, but it’s messy and muddled for him.

For Snoke, first of all he’s not the primary villain of either film he’s in, second, his plan is clear from the start - eliminate the Jedi and destroy the Republic.

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And you know for sure Serkis won’t be back?

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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 (Edited)

DominicCobb said:

What’s unclear with Dooku are his motivations. He reveals Sidious’s plot to Kenobi, but then we learn he’s actually working for Sidious, so why did he reveal the plan? For the majority of AOTC we are lead to believe that he is seeking civil war against the Republic (for independence I guess? Unclear the Separatist motivations), and then we find out he’s enacting out Sidious’s orders. So we are I guess left to believe it’s just galaxy domination/Sith at last getting revenge? Which is fine, but it’s messy and muddled for him.

For Snoke, first of all he’s not the primary villain of either film he’s in, second, his plan is clear from the start - eliminate the Jedi and destroy the Republic.

It’s plain as day though. Dooku, partly like Anakin, was a political idealist who became evil. The seperatist cause is irrelevant because the whole war is a false flag, and Dooku tells Obi Wan SOME of the truth because he’s doing what all Sith do, trying to become the master.

As for Snoke, WHY does he want to do those things? Also he’s not the primary villian by screentime, but he IS the big bad and inciting actor of the problems of TFA and TLJ.

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DominicCobb said:

What’s unclear with Dooku are his motivations. He reveals Sidious’s plot to Kenobi, but then we learn he’s actually working for Sidious, so why did he reveal the plan? For the majority of AOTC we are lead to believe that he is seeking civil war against the Republic (for independence I guess? Unclear the Separatist motivations), and then we find out he’s enacting out Sidious’s orders. So we are I guess left to believe it’s just galaxy domination/Sith at last getting revenge? Which is fine, but it’s messy and muddled for him.

For Snoke, first of all he’s not the primary villain of either film he’s in, second, his plan is clear from the start - eliminate the Jedi and destroy the Republic.

Exactly! I wasn’t sure if he was trying to turn Obi-Wan or being honest with him in the detention cell scene. If he wasn’t playing at being a double agent of sorts, laying out all the cards about Sidious controlling the senate was a pretty risky move, unless he was pretty certain Obi-Wan would never live to share that intel.
That the Jedi Council never seemed to have actually done anything with that info is beside the point. 😉

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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 (Edited)

SilverWook said:

DominicCobb said:

What’s unclear with Dooku are his motivations. He reveals Sidious’s plot to Kenobi, but then we learn he’s actually working for Sidious, so why did he reveal the plan? For the majority of AOTC we are lead to believe that he is seeking civil war against the Republic (for independence I guess? Unclear the Separatist motivations), and then we find out he’s enacting out Sidious’s orders. So we are I guess left to believe it’s just galaxy domination/Sith at last getting revenge? Which is fine, but it’s messy and muddled for him.

For Snoke, first of all he’s not the primary villain of either film he’s in, second, his plan is clear from the start - eliminate the Jedi and destroy the Republic.

Exactly! I wasn’t sure if he was trying to turn Obi-Wan or being honest with him in the detention cell scene. If he wasn’t playing at being a double agent of sorts, laying out all the cards about Sidious controlling the senate was a pretty risky move, unless he was pretty certain Obi-Wan would never live to share that intel.
That the Jedi Council never seemed to have actually done anything with that info is beside the point. 😉

See above. He didn’t lay out nearly all the cards (that would be telling them who the Sith lord is), also RotS makes it very clear that the Jedi have an ongoing investigation that of course isn’t getting them anywhere because Palp is so much closer than they think.

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 (Edited)

SilverWook said:

MikeWW said:

SilverWook said:

A puppet being operated by the real villain?

But why have a dime store Palpatine if the plan all along was to use the real thing?

Because that’s how Palpatine operates. Masks, deceptions and lies. Snoke was just a more sophisticated version of wearing a hood and keeping his face in a strategically placed shadow.

That’s a nice in-universe explanation, but in reality it’s almost certain, that JJ intended for Snoke to be the big bad, and when RJ dispatched him, they had to bring back Palpatine in some form to up the ante. Had it been their intention to bring back Palpatine, they would logically have introduced him as the puppet master in a cameo at the end of TLJ. Additionally RJ clearly made TLJ with the intention to break free from what came before, whilst TROS seems to do the opposite promising a whole host of connections to the past.

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DrDre said:

SilverWook said:

MikeWW said:

SilverWook said:

A puppet being operated by the real villain?

But why have a dime store Palpatine if the plan all along was to use the real thing?

Because that’s how Palpatine operates. Masks, deceptions and lies. Snoke was just a more sophisticated version of wearing a hood and keeping his face in a strategically placed shadow.

That’s a nice in-universe explanation, but in reality it’s almost certain, that JJ intended for Snoke to be the big bad, and when RJ dispatched him, they had to bring back Palpatine in some form to up the ante. Had it been their intention to bring back Palpatine, they would logically have introduced him as the puppet master in a cameo at the end of TLJ. Additionally RJ clearly made TLJ with the intention to break free from what came before, whilst TROS seems to do the opposite promising a whole host of connections to the past.

Unless JJ or RJ bare their souls in an interview, we’ll never know for sure.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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 (Edited)

SilverWook said:

DrDre said:

SilverWook said:

MikeWW said:

SilverWook said:

A puppet being operated by the real villain?

But why have a dime store Palpatine if the plan all along was to use the real thing?

Because that’s how Palpatine operates. Masks, deceptions and lies. Snoke was just a more sophisticated version of wearing a hood and keeping his face in a strategically placed shadow.

That’s a nice in-universe explanation, but in reality it’s almost certain, that JJ intended for Snoke to be the big bad, and when RJ dispatched him, they had to bring back Palpatine in some form to up the ante. Had it been their intention to bring back Palpatine, they would logically have introduced him as the puppet master in a cameo at the end of TLJ. Additionally RJ clearly made TLJ with the intention to break free from what came before, whilst TROS seems to do the opposite promising a whole host of connections to the past.

Unless JJ or RJ bare their souls in an interview, we’ll never know for sure.

No, but we can make an educated guess based on what was stated in interviews, and the trajectory of the story thusfar. What is clear, is that Palpatine’s return in whatever form has played an important part in the marketing thusfar. If this story thread is so important, why introduce it in the wake of the storm surrounding TLJ, rather than as a cliffhanger in the story, where such a reveal would make much more sense?

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MikeWW said:

SilverWook said:

Disregarding the TCW series, we didn’t get much in the prequels, and he was in Episode III for barely a few minutes before being de-handed and de-headed. If Sir Christopher Lee had not been cast, Dooku would be forgettable.

I don’t believe that you believe that Dooku and Snoke are equivelant.
Dooku is a character with a smaller role than Snoke, yet we learn more about him.

Dooku and Snoke are 100% comparable. And in 5 years you’ll probably be able to say the same thing about Snoke thanks to books and comics and TV shows - which is exactly how we know anything worthwhile about Dooku.

a trolling bantha

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ChainsawAsh said:

MikeWW said:

SilverWook said:

Disregarding the TCW series, we didn’t get much in the prequels, and he was in Episode III for barely a few minutes before being de-handed and de-headed. If Sir Christopher Lee had not been cast, Dooku would be forgettable.

I don’t believe that you believe that Dooku and Snoke are equivelant.
Dooku is a character with a smaller role than Snoke, yet we learn more about him.

Dooku and Snoke are 100% comparable. And in 5 years you’ll probably be able to say the same thing about Snoke thanks to books and comics and TV shows - which is exactly how we know anything worthwhile about Dooku.

You didn’t read my posts.

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 (Edited)

ChainsawAsh said:

MikeWW said:

SilverWook said:

Disregarding the TCW series, we didn’t get much in the prequels, and he was in Episode III for barely a few minutes before being de-handed and de-headed. If Sir Christopher Lee had not been cast, Dooku would be forgettable.

I don’t believe that you believe that Dooku and Snoke are equivelant.
Dooku is a character with a smaller role than Snoke, yet we learn more about him.

Dooku and Snoke are 100% comparable. And in 5 years you’ll probably be able to say the same thing about Snoke thanks to books and comics and TV shows - which is exactly how we know anything worthwhile about Dooku.

The thing is, that I wasn’t the biggest fan of Dooku either for exactly the same reasons. You introduce a disposable villain in one movie, and dispatch him in the next with little character development, as was the case for Darth Maul. It was a waste of a very talented actor to be honest, and his portrayal of Dooku contrasted starkly with his presence in LOTR at that time. However, I agree with MikeWW, that more context was provided for Dooku than for Snoke, which makes Snoke a more problematic character for me.

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DrDre said:

ChainsawAsh said:

MikeWW said:

SilverWook said:

Disregarding the TCW series, we didn’t get much in the prequels, and he was in Episode III for barely a few minutes before being de-handed and de-headed. If Sir Christopher Lee had not been cast, Dooku would be forgettable.

I don’t believe that you believe that Dooku and Snoke are equivelant.
Dooku is a character with a smaller role than Snoke, yet we learn more about him.

Dooku and Snoke are 100% comparable. And in 5 years you’ll probably be able to say the same thing about Snoke thanks to books and comics and TV shows - which is exactly how we know anything worthwhile about Dooku.

The thing is, that I wasn’t the biggest fan of Dooku either for exactly the same reasons. You introduce a disposable villain in one movie, and dispatch him in the next with little character development, as was the case for Darth Maul. It was a waste of a very talented actor to be honest, and his portrayal of Dooku contrasted starkly with his presence in LOTR at that time. However, I agree with MikeWW, that more context was provided for Dooku than for Snoke, which makes Snoke a more problematic character for me.

I hate to look a gift post in the mouth but I don’t Lee’s performance in SW was worse than his Saruman, if that’s what you’re implying.

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MikeWW said:

DrDre said:

ChainsawAsh said:

MikeWW said:

SilverWook said:

Disregarding the TCW series, we didn’t get much in the prequels, and he was in Episode III for barely a few minutes before being de-handed and de-headed. If Sir Christopher Lee had not been cast, Dooku would be forgettable.

I don’t believe that you believe that Dooku and Snoke are equivelant.
Dooku is a character with a smaller role than Snoke, yet we learn more about him.

Dooku and Snoke are 100% comparable. And in 5 years you’ll probably be able to say the same thing about Snoke thanks to books and comics and TV shows - which is exactly how we know anything worthwhile about Dooku.

The thing is, that I wasn’t the biggest fan of Dooku either for exactly the same reasons. You introduce a disposable villain in one movie, and dispatch him in the next with little character development, as was the case for Darth Maul. It was a waste of a very talented actor to be honest, and his portrayal of Dooku contrasted starkly with his presence in LOTR at that time. However, I agree with MikeWW, that more context was provided for Dooku than for Snoke, which makes Snoke a more problematic character for me.

I hate to look a gift post in the mouth but I don’t Lee’s performance in SW was worse than his Saruman, if that’s what you’re implying.

I’m not saying Lee’s performance was worse (he was good in pretty much anything). I’m saying he was given far less to work with to the point that the Dooku character was a waste of his potential, a potential that was on full display in LOTR.

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DrDre said:

MikeWW said:

DrDre said:

ChainsawAsh said:

MikeWW said:

SilverWook said:

Disregarding the TCW series, we didn’t get much in the prequels, and he was in Episode III for barely a few minutes before being de-handed and de-headed. If Sir Christopher Lee had not been cast, Dooku would be forgettable.

I don’t believe that you believe that Dooku and Snoke are equivelant.
Dooku is a character with a smaller role than Snoke, yet we learn more about him.

Dooku and Snoke are 100% comparable. And in 5 years you’ll probably be able to say the same thing about Snoke thanks to books and comics and TV shows - which is exactly how we know anything worthwhile about Dooku.

The thing is, that I wasn’t the biggest fan of Dooku either for exactly the same reasons. You introduce a disposable villain in one movie, and dispatch him in the next with little character development, as was the case for Darth Maul. It was a waste of a very talented actor to be honest, and his portrayal of Dooku contrasted starkly with his presence in LOTR at that time. However, I agree with MikeWW, that more context was provided for Dooku than for Snoke, which makes Snoke a more problematic character for me.

I hate to look a gift post in the mouth but I don’t Lee’s performance in SW was worse than his Saruman, if that’s what you’re implying.

I’m not saying Lee’s performance was worse (he was good in pretty much anything). I’m saying he was given far less to work with to the point that the Dooku character was a waste of his potential, a potential that was on full display in LOTR.

I just looked at it as two different sizes of roles. Dooku was more of a Tarkin type role to me.
Smallish but fun and relevant.

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MikeWW said:

DrDre said:

MikeWW said:

DrDre said:

ChainsawAsh said:

MikeWW said:

SilverWook said:

Disregarding the TCW series, we didn’t get much in the prequels, and he was in Episode III for barely a few minutes before being de-handed and de-headed. If Sir Christopher Lee had not been cast, Dooku would be forgettable.

I don’t believe that you believe that Dooku and Snoke are equivelant.
Dooku is a character with a smaller role than Snoke, yet we learn more about him.

Dooku and Snoke are 100% comparable. And in 5 years you’ll probably be able to say the same thing about Snoke thanks to books and comics and TV shows - which is exactly how we know anything worthwhile about Dooku.

The thing is, that I wasn’t the biggest fan of Dooku either for exactly the same reasons. You introduce a disposable villain in one movie, and dispatch him in the next with little character development, as was the case for Darth Maul. It was a waste of a very talented actor to be honest, and his portrayal of Dooku contrasted starkly with his presence in LOTR at that time. However, I agree with MikeWW, that more context was provided for Dooku than for Snoke, which makes Snoke a more problematic character for me.

I hate to look a gift post in the mouth but I don’t Lee’s performance in SW was worse than his Saruman, if that’s what you’re implying.

I’m not saying Lee’s performance was worse (he was good in pretty much anything). I’m saying he was given far less to work with to the point that the Dooku character was a waste of his potential, a potential that was on full display in LOTR.

I just looked at it as two different sizes of roles. Dooku was more of a Tarkin type role to me.
Smallish but fun and relevant.

AOTC is all about Dooku. From the start of the movie it’s “Dooku this” or “Dooku that.” He is the character that has the final confrontation with our heroes, and survives to the next film. He is a far more prominent character than Tarkin, which is one of the reasons why his poor characterization is so harmful to the overall quality of AOTC.

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DominicCobb said:

MikeWW said:

DrDre said:

MikeWW said:

DrDre said:

ChainsawAsh said:

MikeWW said:

SilverWook said:

Disregarding the TCW series, we didn’t get much in the prequels, and he was in Episode III for barely a few minutes before being de-handed and de-headed. If Sir Christopher Lee had not been cast, Dooku would be forgettable.

I don’t believe that you believe that Dooku and Snoke are equivelant.
Dooku is a character with a smaller role than Snoke, yet we learn more about him.

Dooku and Snoke are 100% comparable. And in 5 years you’ll probably be able to say the same thing about Snoke thanks to books and comics and TV shows - which is exactly how we know anything worthwhile about Dooku.

The thing is, that I wasn’t the biggest fan of Dooku either for exactly the same reasons. You introduce a disposable villain in one movie, and dispatch him in the next with little character development, as was the case for Darth Maul. It was a waste of a very talented actor to be honest, and his portrayal of Dooku contrasted starkly with his presence in LOTR at that time. However, I agree with MikeWW, that more context was provided for Dooku than for Snoke, which makes Snoke a more problematic character for me.

I hate to look a gift post in the mouth but I don’t Lee’s performance in SW was worse than his Saruman, if that’s what you’re implying.

I’m not saying Lee’s performance was worse (he was good in pretty much anything). I’m saying he was given far less to work with to the point that the Dooku character was a waste of his potential, a potential that was on full display in LOTR.

I just looked at it as two different sizes of roles. Dooku was more of a Tarkin type role to me.
Smallish but fun and relevant.

AOTC is all about Dooku. From the start of the movie it’s “Dooku this” or “Dooku that.” He is the character that has the final confrontation with our heroes, and survives to the next film. He is a far more prominent character than Tarkin, which is one of the reasons why his poor characterization is so harmful to the overall quality of AOTC.

I disagree on two counts. He’s not really the centerpiece of 2 anymore than the commander of the Death Star is for 4, and also, again, his characterization is way more substantial than Snoke, the dead guy responsible for the plot of the entire sequel trilogy.

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Is there anything you guys are excited about for IX?

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RogueLeader said:

Is there anything you guys are excited about for IX?

The fact that Terrio has maybe read Dark Empire and is stealth rebooting the sequel trilogy.

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 (Edited)

MikeWW said:

DominicCobb said:

MikeWW said:

DrDre said:

MikeWW said:

DrDre said:

ChainsawAsh said:

MikeWW said:

SilverWook said:

Disregarding the TCW series, we didn’t get much in the prequels, and he was in Episode III for barely a few minutes before being de-handed and de-headed. If Sir Christopher Lee had not been cast, Dooku would be forgettable.

I don’t believe that you believe that Dooku and Snoke are equivelant.
Dooku is a character with a smaller role than Snoke, yet we learn more about him.

Dooku and Snoke are 100% comparable. And in 5 years you’ll probably be able to say the same thing about Snoke thanks to books and comics and TV shows - which is exactly how we know anything worthwhile about Dooku.

The thing is, that I wasn’t the biggest fan of Dooku either for exactly the same reasons. You introduce a disposable villain in one movie, and dispatch him in the next with little character development, as was the case for Darth Maul. It was a waste of a very talented actor to be honest, and his portrayal of Dooku contrasted starkly with his presence in LOTR at that time. However, I agree with MikeWW, that more context was provided for Dooku than for Snoke, which makes Snoke a more problematic character for me.

I hate to look a gift post in the mouth but I don’t Lee’s performance in SW was worse than his Saruman, if that’s what you’re implying.

I’m not saying Lee’s performance was worse (he was good in pretty much anything). I’m saying he was given far less to work with to the point that the Dooku character was a waste of his potential, a potential that was on full display in LOTR.

I just looked at it as two different sizes of roles. Dooku was more of a Tarkin type role to me.
Smallish but fun and relevant.

AOTC is all about Dooku. From the start of the movie it’s “Dooku this” or “Dooku that.” He is the character that has the final confrontation with our heroes, and survives to the next film. He is a far more prominent character than Tarkin, which is one of the reasons why his poor characterization is so harmful to the overall quality of AOTC.

I disagree on two counts. He’s not really the centerpiece of 2 anymore than the commander of the Death Star is for 4,

Okay, so the primary threat in each movie is the Death Star, and the Separatist alliance. So if you look at mere rank, the two are on equal footing. But the key distinction, is that while Tarkin is in charge of the Death Star, he’s not the face of it. Whenever the threat of the Separatists is considered, it always essentially referred to as Dooku’s Separatist movement.

Now there’s also the henchmen to consider. Unlike Vader, Jango Fett is dispatched before the final, climactic showdown. Which means that, while in ANH you have Vader in his TIE about to shoot down Luke, in AOTC it is just Dooku who is fighting Anakin, Obi-wan, and Yoda. So again, Dooku and Tarkin aren’t exactly comparable.

and also, again, his characterization is way more substantial than Snoke, the dead guy responsible for the plot of the entire sequel trilogy.

There’s more information, but that doesn’t mean the characterization is necessarily better. Knowing where a character comes from does not necessarily make them a good character (consider an obvious example on the flip side, the Joker). Snoke plays a fairly straightforward role in the two films he’s in. There are question marks about where he came from and why he’s doing what he’s doing, but ultimately we do know who he is in the sense that we know what his goals are and we know his resolve, so when you factor in how little screen time he has, do we really need to know more about him? He’s incited the plot, sure, but Kylo Ren is the actual central villain of both films.

In AOTC, Dooku is the central villain (not the big bad, who in that film only really gets one scene). While we know about where Dooku came from, there are question marks when it comes to things that are more relevant to his characterization in the narrative of the film. AOTC masks this for most of its runtime by having a central mystery that the plot revolves around, but the problem is that the whole thing ultimately unravels in a way that doesn’t make sense.

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 (Edited)

DominicCobb said:

MikeWW said:

DominicCobb said:

MikeWW said:

DrDre said:

MikeWW said:

DrDre said:

ChainsawAsh said:

MikeWW said:

SilverWook said:

Disregarding the TCW series, we didn’t get much in the prequels, and he was in Episode III for barely a few minutes before being de-handed and de-headed. If Sir Christopher Lee had not been cast, Dooku would be forgettable.

I don’t believe that you believe that Dooku and Snoke are equivelant.
Dooku is a character with a smaller role than Snoke, yet we learn more about him.

Dooku and Snoke are 100% comparable. And in 5 years you’ll probably be able to say the same thing about Snoke thanks to books and comics and TV shows - which is exactly how we know anything worthwhile about Dooku.

The thing is, that I wasn’t the biggest fan of Dooku either for exactly the same reasons. You introduce a disposable villain in one movie, and dispatch him in the next with little character development, as was the case for Darth Maul. It was a waste of a very talented actor to be honest, and his portrayal of Dooku contrasted starkly with his presence in LOTR at that time. However, I agree with MikeWW, that more context was provided for Dooku than for Snoke, which makes Snoke a more problematic character for me.

I hate to look a gift post in the mouth but I don’t Lee’s performance in SW was worse than his Saruman, if that’s what you’re implying.

I’m not saying Lee’s performance was worse (he was good in pretty much anything). I’m saying he was given far less to work with to the point that the Dooku character was a waste of his potential, a potential that was on full display in LOTR.

I just looked at it as two different sizes of roles. Dooku was more of a Tarkin type role to me.
Smallish but fun and relevant.

AOTC is all about Dooku. From the start of the movie it’s “Dooku this” or “Dooku that.” He is the character that has the final confrontation with our heroes, and survives to the next film. He is a far more prominent character than Tarkin, which is one of the reasons why his poor characterization is so harmful to the overall quality of AOTC.

I disagree on two counts. He’s not really the centerpiece of 2 anymore than the commander of the Death Star is for 4,

Okay, so the primary threat in each movie is the Death Star, and the Separatist alliance. So if you look at mere rank, the two are on equal footing. But the key distinction, is that while Tarkin is in charge of the Death Star, he’s not the face of it. Whenever the threat of the Separatists is considered, it always essentially referred to as Dooku’s Separatist movement.

Now there’s also the henchmen to consider. Unlike Vader, Jango Fett is dispatched before the final, climactic showdown. Which means that, while in ANH you have Vader in his TIE about to shoot down Luke, in AOTC it is just Dooku who is fighting Anakin, Obi-wan, and Yoda. So again, Dooku and Tarkin aren’t exactly comparable.

and also, again, his characterization is way more substantial than Snoke, the dead guy responsible for the plot of the entire sequel trilogy.

There’s more information, but that doesn’t mean the characterization is necessarily better. Knowing where a character comes from does not necessarily make them a good character (consider an obvious example on the flip side, the Joker). Snoke plays a fairly straightforward role in the two films he’s in. There are question marks about where he came from and why he’s doing what he’s doing, but ultimately we do know who he is in the sense that we know what his goals are and we know his resolve, so when you factor in how little screen time he has, do we really need to know more about him? He’s incited the plot, sure, but Kylo Ren is the actual central villain of both films.

In AOTC, Dooku is the central villain (not the big bad, who in that film only really gets one scene). While we know about where Dooku came from, there are question marks when it comes to things that are more relevant to his characterization in the narrative of the film. AOTC masks this for most of its runtime by having a central mystery that the plot revolves around, but the problem is that the whole thing ultimately unravels in a way that doesn’t make sense.

I refuse to believe that you think that Snoke was not extremely underwritten.
He’s behind The First Order, Luke’s exile, Ben’s turn, etc.

Also AotC makes plenty of sense and Dooku’s actions are totally understandable.
Read all my posts about Dooku above. You’re not going to drag me into a thing where you ignore MY walls of text in your own.

P.S.
Palpatine is clearly the big bad of the entire PT and AotC never lets us forget this. It is Palpatine, not Dooku, who is orchestrating the plot. so in a way, Dooku is LESS central than Tarkin.

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MikeWW said:

AotC makes plenty of sense and Dooku’s actions are totally understandable.

You can’t be serious. Dooku has no clear motivation or personality. Snoke isn’t a well-developed character, but at least his motivations are clear.

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 (Edited)

StarkillerAG said:

MikeWW said:

AotC makes plenty of sense and Dooku’s actions are totally understandable.

You can’t be serious. Dooku has no clear motivation or personality. Snoke isn’t a well-developed character, but at least his motivations are clear.

???
Dooku’s personality is “old timey gentleman who is evil”.
Still more than Snoke’s “cackling Palpatine-esque person”.

Dooku’s motivation is the same as Anakin’s, in a way.
“I see you becoming the greatest of all the Jedi, Anakin. Even more powerful than Master Yoda.”
“I will be the most powerful Jedi ever.”
“I’ve become more powerful than any Jedi, even you.”

Snoke’s motivation is “Evil”.