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Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * SPOILER THREAD * — Page 95

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All this be as it may, but Shaw hasn’t been seen at the end of ROTJ for 15 years. An entire generation has grown up without Shaw, who’s now a distant memory, so I don’t believe it’s very realistic to expect JJ to put Shaw into TROS. If Anakin appears it will be Hayden Christensen rather than some uncanny valley recreation of Shaw. Let’s also not forget the concept art for TFA featured Hayden, not Shaw. Some here have argued that Disney hasn’t done anything to suggest they consider the SE canon. I think you should flip it around, what have they done to make us believe they consider the OOT canon? The answer is nothing. They re-released the SE in 2015, and from what we’ve heard about the alleged new 4K master for the OT, it’s the SE. If we’re lucky, we’ll one day see a proper restoration of the OOT. However, since we’ve recently seen Lucas still has a say when he approved the 70mm screening, I suspect it will be another bonus disc, where the SE will be 4K HDR, and the OOT on standard bluray. I think we need to accept reality, and the reality is that the SE will be the official canon versions for the forseeable future, and so Hayden Christensen appears as Anakin at the end of ROTJ, and it will thus likely be him, if JJ lets him appear in TROS. If that spoils your enjoyment of TROS, that’s a pity, but I think the ST has introduced far bigger issues in relation to the OT, than having a cameo of an SE character, and even I’m willing to give TROS a chance. If TROS turns out to be a great film, I’m not going to let a cameo by Hayden ruin it for me. I don’t care that much about canon anyway. I care about good stories, and if Abrams can get a great performance out of Hayden, that enhances the story, I’m all for it.

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DrDre said:

If TROS turns out to be a great film, I’m not going to let a cameo by Hayde ruin it for me. I don’t care that much about canon anyway. I care about good stories, and if Abrams can get a great performance out of Hayden, that enhances the story, I’m all for it.

I agree…

…if Hayden is used in a flashback or hologram. If he’s a Force ghost, the movie better be absurdly good in order for me not to discard the ST entirely over it.

Or he better be really easy to cut out in a fan edit.

Petty? Yep. And I might change my mind between now and December. But the very idea of bringing Hayden back as Anakin’s ghost makes my blood boil.

a trolling bantha

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I partially agree with Dre on this one. While the Hayden ghost has been the default for many people who watched the movies for the first time in the past fifteen years, one does not need to look far to know about the controversy on this one. From my browsing of the often toxic Star Wars reddit, a decent amount of people prefer Hayden as the ghost. They buy into the logic that George used (i.e., restored to where he was before he completely fell to the dark side). There’s also the fact that many fans grew up with the Prequels/the Clone Wars cartoon series, where the Hayden visage is how they “see” pre-fall Anakin. These fans will also admit that he should have been better incorporated into the scene, so it’s not that bad. Many fans, even young ones, prefer Shaw. This is why popular series of parodies either make fun of the change (Robot Chicken) or default to Shaw (How It Should Have Ended).

I’d be largely OK with Hayden. We’ve learned that Force ghosts can appear however the heck they want to appear/what’s relevant to their current goals. From Kylo’s perspective, Shaw wouldn’t really mean anything to him. Hayden, on the other hand, is how Anakin would have looked for in-universe media and the in-universe memory of the character. While Shaw may be relevant to Luke, Hayden/distortions of Vader would be relevant to Kylo. Of course, I only want the ghosts if they’re essential to the plot. If it’s an unnecessary cameo (the stoned Yoda puppet in TLJ was kind of necessary), I won’t like it.

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SilverWook said:

I guess he wasn’t too worried about how badly Owen and Beru age in only 20 years. Otherwise he would have cast actors that were a bit older for AOTC.

Have you ever seen that picture of the lady who sat at a desk with one cheek to the window for many years?
Her sun exposed cheek looks extremely prematurely aged.

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I’m starting to think this thread has been derailed into the topic of the Special Edition changes.

Noah Lawson

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nl0428 said:

I’m starting to think this thread has been derailed into the topic of the Special Edition changes.

Agreed, I’m pretty sure there’s a death of the author thread where those arguments can be made. Although, the deeper question to get back on track is what JJ/Disney will ultimately decide based around that very same fan contention. They killed the EU and kept their distance from the prequels, they didn’t want to deal with the dead weight (their perspective). Now the fans who had appreciation for those things have surfaced and turned the finger back on them and calling their movies fan fiction. Hard to know how they’ll take that reaction, the prequels have themselves undergone a shift in general consensus in the time between TFA and TLJ.

There’s really no winning with Star Wars in my opinion, it’s all so personal and perceptions change, and the next generation of fans will have a custom experience. Always in motion is the future.

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act on instinct said:

There’s really no winning with Star Wars in my opinion, it’s all so personal and perceptions change, and the next generation of fans will have a custom experience. Always in motion is the future.

I completely agree. Feels like they can’t please one group without upsetting another! But that’s why I’m trying to be optimistic about JJ’s apparent “F@#% it!” attitude while working on IX.

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RogueLeader said:

act on instinct said:

There’s really no winning with Star Wars in my opinion, it’s all so personal and perceptions change, and the next generation of fans will have a custom experience. Always in motion is the future.

I completely agree. Feels like they can’t please one group without upsetting another! But that’s why I’m trying to be optimistic about JJ’s apparent “F@#% it!” attitude while working on IX.

Best thing to do to get yourself excited for Episode Ix without anyone spoiling or ruining your enthusiasm would be to unsubscribe from this thread once December arrives.

Noah Lawson

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I didn’t even realize you could subscribe to individual threads, and I’ve been a regular on this site for about 5 years. My brain just totally ignored the subscribe button.

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nl0428 said:

I’m starting to think this thread has been derailed into the topic of the Special Edition changes.

It has. I suspect our new bait and troll member will back off soon.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

"Why are you here, Rey from nowhere?”

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With some of the more recent leaks/rumors I’ve seen, it got me thinking this morning more about Palpatine’s return and how it could potentially recontextualize the entire saga. It is a bit scary to think about, depending on how they pull it off, but honestly I don’t think I’m worried about it anymore.

I was rewatching Ian McDiarmid’s scene’s from ROTJ the other day, and thinking about them again made me realize that, if we do see him, it is going to be CRAZY to see him again as the Emperor onscreen. Think about it from McDiarmid’s perspective. In his late 30s, he got to play the old “ruler of the universe” in a few brief scenes in one of the biggest franchises of all time, and he thought that would be it. Then George comes back to him 15 years later and asks him to play the same character again in three more films. What’s even better is that since Ian has gotten a little older, and the movies take place decades before the original trilogy, he’s the perfect age to reprise the role.

Then those films wrap in 2005 and McDiarmid officially hangs up the black robe. Or does he? Flash-forward another 15 years, and sequels to the original trilogy are being made. Not only that, but they want him back AGAIN to play the Emperor in the last film in the saga. Now, being 74, Ian is actually much closer in age to the old Emperor, and he might appear as he did onscreen almost 40 years ago.

It’s just crazy to think about, and honestly one of the more unique performances an actor has gotten to experience over the entirety of his career. I think that alone will be enough for me to sit back and enjoy it in the theater. It just something I could have never imagined happening.

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RogueLeader said:

With some of the more recent leaks/rumors I’ve seen, it got me thinking this morning more about Palpatine’s return and how it could potentially recontextualize the entire saga. It is a bit scary to think about, depending on how they pull it off, but honestly I don’t think I’m worried about it anymore.

I was rewatching Ian McDiarmid’s scene’s from ROTJ the other day, and thinking about them again made me realize that, if we do see him, it is going to be CRAZY to see him again as the Emperor onscreen. Think about it from McDiarmid’s perspective. In his late 30s, he got to play the old “ruler of the universe” in a few brief scenes in one of the biggest franchises of all time, and he thought that would be it. Then George comes back to him 15 years later and asks him to play the same character again in three more films. What’s even better is that since Ian has gotten a little older, and the movies take place decades before the original trilogy, he’s the perfect age to reprise the role.

Then those films wrap in 2005 and McDiarmid officially hangs up the black robe. Or does he? Flash-forward another 15 years, and sequels to the original trilogy are being made. Not only that, but they want him back AGAIN to play the Emperor in the last film in the saga. Now, being 74, Ian is actually much closer in age to the old Emperor, and he might appear as he did onscreen almost 40 years ago.

It’s just crazy to think about, and honestly one of the more unique performances an actor has gotten to experience over the entirety of his career. I think that alone will be enough for me to sit back and enjoy it in the theater. It just something I could have never imagined happening.

But who was Snoke???

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A puppet being operated by the real villain?

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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SilverWook said:

A puppet being operated by the real villain?

But why have a dime store Palpatine if the plan all along was to use the real thing?

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Snoke was three ugnaughts stacked on top of each other under a golden trench coat.

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RogueLeader said:

Snoke was three ugnaughts stacked on top of each other under a golden trench coat.

Post of the week. ™

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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MikeWW said:

SilverWook said:

A puppet being operated by the real villain?

But why have a dime store Palpatine if the plan all along was to use the real thing?

Because that’s how Palpatine operates. Masks, deceptions and lies. Snoke was just a more sophisticated version of wearing a hood and keeping his face in a strategically placed shadow.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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SilverWook said:

MikeWW said:

SilverWook said:

A puppet being operated by the real villain?

But why have a dime store Palpatine if the plan all along was to use the real thing?

Because that’s how Palpatine operates. Masks, deceptions and lies. Snoke was just a more sophisticated version of wearing a hood and keeping his face in a strategically placed shadow.

I…
They hired Andy Serkis. You don’t do that for a nothing throw away character.

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MikeWW said:

SilverWook said:

MikeWW said:

SilverWook said:

A puppet being operated by the real villain?

But why have a dime store Palpatine if the plan all along was to use the real thing?

Because that’s how Palpatine operates. Masks, deceptions and lies. Snoke was just a more sophisticated version of wearing a hood and keeping his face in a strategically placed shadow.

I…
They hired Andy Serkis. You don’t do that for a nothing throw away character.

cough Dooku cough

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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SilverWook said:

MikeWW said:

SilverWook said:

MikeWW said:

SilverWook said:

A puppet being operated by the real villain?

But why have a dime store Palpatine if the plan all along was to use the real thing?

Because that’s how Palpatine operates. Masks, deceptions and lies. Snoke was just a more sophisticated version of wearing a hood and keeping his face in a strategically placed shadow.

I…
They hired Andy Serkis. You don’t do that for a nothing throw away character.

cough Dooku cough

Dooku has way more backstory than Snoke though.
He also was never presented as the big bad of the trilogy.
So, smaller role and more context.

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Disregarding the TCW series, we didn’t get much in the prequels, and he was in Episode III for barely a few minutes before being de-handed and de-headed. If Sir Christopher Lee had not been cast, Dooku would be forgettable.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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SilverWook said:

Disregarding the TCW series, we didn’t get much in the prequels, and he was in Episode III for barely a few minutes before being de-handed and de-headed. If Sir Christopher Lee had not been cast, Dooku would be forgettable.

I don’t believe that you believe that Dooku and Snoke are equivelant.
Dooku is a character with a smaller role than Snoke, yet we learn more about him.

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If one invests time in an lengthy animated series in which he appears. The character ought to be able to stand alone without benefit of watching TCW.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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SilverWook said:

If one invests time in an lengthy animated series in which he appears. The character ought to be able to stand alone without benefit of watching TCW.

You keep bringing up the show for no reason. Pretty much everything contextual we learn about him comes from one movie. And it’s more than we get with Snoke.
Plus he’s not even played by Lee in that show and he’s still fun to watch, so there goes that.