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Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * SPOILER THREAD * — Page 90

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 (Edited)

OutboundFlight said:

What’s really interesting is with Gareth Edwards and Lord/Miller, Disney really went down their throats. They had numerous reshoots because they were disappointed with the director’s vision.

With J.J. it was less obvious, but they surrounded him with so much “protection”- teaming him up with Kasdan, and constantly mentioning how they were trying to return to the OT as a subtle jab at the PT’s wackiness.

But here comes Rian Johnson, and Disney absolutely loves him. All through the documentaries for TLJ Kennedy goes on and on about Rian is perfect for the job and his vision is perfect for Star Wars. It’s bittersweet knowing what’s going to happen. One thing we can all agree on is TLJ was the most divise of the Disney SW movies- so it is surprising for the one where they have Rian the most creative freedom to be the one it turns out was most deserving of reshoots (to play it safe).

I know we’ve heard they planned the trilogy out, but TFA and TLJ really don’t play well with each other. TLJ feels like it is making a statement, for better or worse, that the derivative elements of TFA need to go. Maybe on paper that sounded good but in practice it really feels like Rian is changing all of J.J.’s plan. Hence why 9 seems more like a one-off movie (bringing back Palpatine) rather than a conclusion to a trilogy.

So much this.

JJ had “a map to Skywalker” as if Luke Skywalker were some static feature of a planetary landscape, rather than somebody who travelled to a specific destination for reasons unknown. Because giving any further detail might prohibit the other films in the series from having a free hand. But this makes the writing of TFA annoyingly vague, and leads the film to focus on more derivative elements, like Starkiller Base.

Rian saw Snoke (rightly) as derivative, and so killed him off. But he did so via a sudden assassination that conveyed his dislike for the very idea of the character. This retroactively casts TFA in a bad light for focusing on Snoke as a big threat, and also leaves unanswered the question of how & why that guy came to upend the GFFA.

Now JJ is back, and is scrambling to do something with Palpatine because he can’t use Snoke anymore. This back-and-forth is leading to successive films where the narrative elements are working against each other, rather than helping each other tell a grander saga.

“That Darth Vader, man. Sure does love eating Jedi.”

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I’m still hoping that Sheev isn’t overused in TRoS and remains as just a Force ghost or holocron. This whole Sith trooper thing is concerning. Hopefully they’re just a First Order/Knights of Ren faction.

My worst case scenario for 9 is that it’s revealed that everything leading up to it was some master plan by Palpatine to create a new Sith Empire or something. Evil Sith master plans have been used too much. I want to see Kylo as a conflicted villain that’s struggling to hold the First Order together.

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ATMachine said:

Now JJ is back, and is scrambling to do something with Palpatine because he can’t use Snoke anymore. This back-and-forth is leading to successive films where the narrative elements are working against each other, rather than helping each other tell a grander saga.

I don’t think that’s fair. It’s really pretentious to say JJ is “scrambling” to use Palpatine. You literally have zero idea on how he will be used narratively. And you’re just assuming JJ needs to replace Snoke because Rian killed him off. That way of thinking is why fans will hate 9 regardless of quality.

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I do think it’s fair. Episode IX has an evident lack of Snoke and a sudden appearance of Palpatine. It’s hardly rocket science to connect the two.

Mindlessly hating on a film isn’t the same as articulating genuine issues in its storytelling. Movies shouldn’t be above criticism. Even if most of the online chatter these days is feverish and overzealous, there still ought to be room for reasoned analysis.

“That Darth Vader, man. Sure does love eating Jedi.”

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ATMachine said:

I do think it’s fair. Episode IX has an evident lack of Snoke and a sudden appearance of Palpatine. It’s hardly rocket science to connect the two.

Mindlessly hating on a film isn’t the same as articulating genuine issues in its storytelling. Movies shouldn’t be above criticism. Even if most of the online chatter these days is feverish and overzealous, there still ought to be room for reasoned analysis.

Like I said. You’re conclusion about JJ’s creative decision is an assumption. And I’m curious on how you make a reasoned analysis on a film that hasn’t come out yet and is shrouded in secrecy.
Obviously it shouldn’t be above criticism but my point is maybe you think you know more than you actually do, and the film deserves a fair chance at this stage.

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SWOTFAN25 said:

ATMachine said:

Now JJ is back, and is scrambling to do something with Palpatine because he can’t use Snoke anymore. This back-and-forth is leading to successive films where the narrative elements are working against each other, rather than helping each other tell a grander saga.

I don’t think that’s fair. It’s really pretentious to say JJ is “scrambling” to use Palpatine. You literally have zero idea on how he will be used narratively. And you’re just assuming JJ needs to replace Snoke because Rian killed him off. That way of thinking is why fans will hate 9 regardless of quality.

Quoted for truth (emphasis mine).

a trolling bantha

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I didn’t realize constructive criticism wasn’t allowed anymore.

“That Darth Vader, man. Sure does love eating Jedi.”

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ATMachine said:

I didn’t realize constructive criticism wasn’t allowed anymore.

you can’t do that till you have seen it though

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Fine. I guess I’m just supposed to shut up and mindlessly expect the film to be manna from heaven.

Why do I care about Star Wars again?

“That Darth Vader, man. Sure does love eating Jedi.”

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Red Letter Media: Rich and Mike’s The Rise of Skywalker Predictions Video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzeOrA2in1c

Rogue One is redundant. Just play the first mission of DARK FORCES.
‘Star Wars is a buffet, enjoy the stuff you want, and leave the rest.’ - SilverWook

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ATMachine said:

Fine. I guess I’m just supposed to shut up and mindlessly expect the film to be manna from heaven.

Why do I care about Star Wars again?

Nah man relax. Didn’t mean to dissuade conversation that’s my bad. It’s ok speak your mind that’s what it’s about here.

Just want people to be fair. Your sentiment is reasonable I just don’t think its good to assume too much. Especially when it’s this early in the game. Just my opinion though the majority would agree with you that’s why I’m kind of defending my point.

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SWOTFAN25 said:

ATMachine said:

Fine. I guess I’m just supposed to shut up and mindlessly expect the film to be manna from heaven.

Why do I care about Star Wars again?

Nah man relax. Didn’t mean to dissuade conversation that’s my bad. It’s ok speak your mind that’s what it’s about here.

Just want people to be fair. Your sentiment is reasonable I just don’t think its good to assume too much. Especially when it’s this early in the game.

You are one of the most reasonable people on this board. Thanks for that! It’s a pleasure reading your posts, even if we don’t always agree!

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ATMachine said:

OutboundFlight said:

What’s really interesting is with Gareth Edwards and Lord/Miller, Disney really went down their throats. They had numerous reshoots because they were disappointed with the director’s vision.

With J.J. it was less obvious, but they surrounded him with so much “protection”- teaming him up with Kasdan, and constantly mentioning how they were trying to return to the OT as a subtle jab at the PT’s wackiness.

But here comes Rian Johnson, and Disney absolutely loves him. All through the documentaries for TLJ Kennedy goes on and on about Rian is perfect for the job and his vision is perfect for Star Wars. It’s bittersweet knowing what’s going to happen. One thing we can all agree on is TLJ was the most divise of the Disney SW movies- so it is surprising for the one where they have Rian the most creative freedom to be the one it turns out was most deserving of reshoots (to play it safe).

I know we’ve heard they planned the trilogy out, but TFA and TLJ really don’t play well with each other. TLJ feels like it is making a statement, for better or worse, that the derivative elements of TFA need to go. Maybe on paper that sounded good but in practice it really feels like Rian is changing all of J.J.’s plan. Hence why 9 seems more like a one-off movie (bringing back Palpatine) rather than a conclusion to a trilogy.

So much this.

JJ had “a map to Skywalker” as if Luke Skywalker were some static feature of a planetary landscape, rather than somebody who travelled to a specific destination for reasons unknown. Because giving any further detail might prohibit the other films in the series from having a free hand. But this makes the writing of TFA annoyingly vague, and leads the film to focus on more derivative elements, like Starkiller Base.

Rian saw Snoke (rightly) as derivative, and so killed him off. But he did so via a sudden assassination that conveyed his dislike for the very idea of the character. This retroactively casts TFA in a bad light for focusing on Snoke as a big threat, and also leaves unanswered the question of how & why that guy came to upend the GFFA.

Now JJ is back, and is scrambling to do something with Palpatine because he can’t use Snoke anymore. This back-and-forth is leading to successive films where the narrative elements are working against each other, rather than helping each other tell a grander saga.

Great post and while I also agree you can’t be overly critical on an unreleased film, the two preceeding films and everything we know so far about IX does allow you to start to piecing together a rough picture of how events will play out and the way these films have been made are playing off / reacting to each other.

Regardless of how we think IX will play out, I think the line below is spot on in regards to TFA and TLJ.

…the narrative elements are working against each other, rather than helping each other tell a grander saga.

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No way.

PM me for links to my edits; apparently, some feel shy about this.

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 (Edited)

My first reaction to Mike’s time-travel prediction was “Ha, yeah right!”. Then after hearing him list the deflector shield, Palpatine’s laugh, the medal, Luke’s destroyed lightsaber… it wasn’t that funny anymore. Also his other theory about Palpy possessing Kylo gave me a headache. But overall, I’m currently in a pretty good spot with the story because it can only get better from here… or well, it could always crash and burn in flames… but that’s unlikely.

EDIT: The deflector shield and the lightsaber are things which can be reforged easily.
I forgot the lightsaber was only split in half, not blown to smithereens.

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So Luke wasn’t joking back in the original film? 😉

                     THREEPIO
                     Is there anything I might do to help?

           Luke glances at the battered robot. A bit of his anger drains 
           and a tiny smile creeps across his face.

                       LUKE
             Well, not unless you can alter time, 
             speed up the harvest, or teleport me 
             off this rock!

So teleportation must be a thing too…

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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“It just isn’t fair! Why can’t Uncle Owen afford a time machine?”

I’ll make a promise right now: if IX makes plot-central use of time travel, such that our characters literally go into the past and either alter or substantially interact with it, I will stand up out of my seat, drive back home, and none of you will ever hear from me again.

That would be the most bankrupt thing they could possibly do, and I don’t believe it.

PM me for links to my edits; apparently, some feel shy about this.

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But what if they save Han? 😉

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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This is an enormous “if,” but if they do, may as well go balls to the wall.

To me it’s too late for IX to introduce or do anything radically new, so I’m just hoping for a thematically appropriate conclusion to the stupidly-now-called “Skywalker Saga” (“because now we want Star Wars to include space-stuff that has nothing else in common but their titles”) in the vein of “see, kid,
I knew you could do it, and the lessons you learned along the way will always help you.”
Basically, if the whole saga is ANH, IX would be the part when Luke flies back down to the Rebel base and hears Ben tell him, and the audience, “The Force will be with you… always.”

PM me for links to my edits; apparently, some feel shy about this.

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The fact that fans are believing that time travel is a possibility in Episode IX is total lunacy to me. I could say that Jar Jar is in the movie, and some would think I may be right. As for Red Letter Media’s prediction video, I wouldn’t buy into it if I were any of you. Even though they break down movies in such a fan’s perspective with Mr. Plinkett, Red Letter Media likes to troll with fans in a fun manner that’s not disrespectful in any way. Their predictions about time travel in The Rise of Skywalker is a good example of this.

Noah Lawson

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The old Jar Jar is a Sith Lord thing is no more crazy than anything else making the rounds at the moment. 😉

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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SilverWook said:

The old Jar Jar is a Sith Lord thing is no more crazy than anything else making the rounds at the moment. 😉

Regardless of what happens in Episode IX, fans will be happy or disappointed with anything in the film. I love the Sequel Trilogy, but I am getting tired of some fans spouting out hatred for the trilogy to either beat a dead horse, or to draw attention to themselves, not because they’re attacking something I love, all film is subjective, but it was really annoying the ever living crap out of me. The Internet was heavily polluted last year with negative videos on The Last Jedi.

Noah Lawson