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Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * SPOILER THREAD * — Page 84

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DominicCobb said:

As I’ve stated before when this has come up, she’s looking for for her place in the world. At first she thinks she’s looking for someone to show her her purpose, by the end of TLJ she’s coming to understand that she’ll find her purpose on her own. Everything she does comes down to that and her innate goodness (which are connected, she longs for connection and is isolated but empathetic - look at her saving BB8, empathetic to his plight and ultimately finds kinship with him). Even without building the new Jedi she has still found the place she was looking for with her friends in the Resistance.

Her innate goodness is the problem I have with her. It’s stagnant and boring to me. The combination of innate goodness, and recieving powers from on high removes all chances of development, and choice. She doesn’t choose to commit herself to the hard life and sacrifice Qui-Gon Jinn speaks off in TPM, she just gets bestowed with these powers, and has to deal with it. She doesn’t choose to do the right thing after having faced temptation, she immediately does the right thing, because of her innate goodness. The growth in her character is severely limited by the fact, that she’s already ahead of everyone else morally and in terms her abilities pretty much from the get go. The story of Luke is like the poor guy, who through hard work, struggle, and sacrifice builds his fortune. The story of Rey is like the orphan girl who wins the lotery, and now we have to witness her “struggle” to spent all that money, that she immediately spends wisely from day one, without ever losing control like a normal person would.

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The way you’ve twisted Rey’s story is so ridiculous that I’m honestly sad for you that you see it like that. I don’t know what else to say. Nothing I’ve ever said has ever seemed to have any effect. I don’t know why I keep responding to you.

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DominicCobb said:

The way you’ve twisted Rey’s story is so ridiculous that I’m honestly sad for you.

It’s not ridiculous, because many people feel this way about Rey, and have expressed this one way or the other. If a significant proportion of viewers feel she’s a poorly developed, and overpowered character, than that’s on the writers, who failed to write a character that resonates with an overwhelming majority of viewers, like many other protagonists we’ve witnessed in the past.

It works both ways. I really don’t understand what you see in such a mediocre character, and nothing I say can convince you otherwise. You speak of her innate goodness, as if that’s a good quality for a fictional character. I don’t get that. She’s not the worst character ever written, but that’s faint praise.

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Is there some sort of polling data on that?

People back in 1977 said our beloved heroes were poorly developed too. The circle is now complete!

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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SilverWook said:

Is there some sort of polling data on that?

People back in 1977 said our beloved heroes were poorly developed too. The circle is now complete!

Let’s just say her character like TLJ has been divisive inspiring memes, politics, and toxicity. The same cannot be said for our beloved heroes, who were never considered the product of high art, but are nevertheless widely praised. I don’t see that happening for Rey, unless JJ pulls something out of his hat. The problem with Rey is, that despite several issues, her character had potential after TFA, but TLJ didn’t develop the few relationships she established in TFA, and her character mostly served as a plot device for Ben Solo and Luke, who became the focal points of the story with better defined and more interesting character arcs.

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DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

The way you’ve twisted Rey’s story is so ridiculous that I’m honestly sad for you.

It’s not ridiculous, because many people feel this way about Rey, and have expressed this one way or the other. If a significant proportion of viewers feel she’s a poorly developed, and overpowered character, than that’s on the writers, who failed to write a character that resonates with an overwhelming majority of viewers, like many other protagonists we’ve witnessed in the past.

It works both ways. I really don’t understand what you see in such a mediocre character, and nothing I say can convince you otherwise. You speak of her innate goodness, as if that’s a good quality for a fictional character. I don’t get that. She’s not the worst character ever written, but that’s faint praise.

She’s written perfectly fine, but some fans can’t get over the fact that she doesn’t adhere to the same exact journey as the saga’s prior protagonists and they feel that because she doesn’t develop her powers in a way that makes sense according to video game logic that makes her “poorly written.” You think innate goodness makes her boring even though Luke Skywalker is exactly the same in that regard (I’d argue the only difference is his innate goodness is explained even less so than hers). I think it’s ridiculous to engage with the text the way that you and others do where you ignore basically everything the films are actually doing. You can choose to think that I’m ridiculous for thinking that and that’s fine. There’s nothing else to say that hasn’t already been said a thousand times.

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DominicCobb said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

The way you’ve twisted Rey’s story is so ridiculous that I’m honestly sad for you.

It’s not ridiculous, because many people feel this way about Rey, and have expressed this one way or the other. If a significant proportion of viewers feel she’s a poorly developed, and overpowered character, than that’s on the writers, who failed to write a character that resonates with an overwhelming majority of viewers, like many other protagonists we’ve witnessed in the past.

It works both ways. I really don’t understand what you see in such a mediocre character, and nothing I say can convince you otherwise. You speak of her innate goodness, as if that’s a good quality for a fictional character. I don’t get that. She’s not the worst character ever written, but that’s faint praise.

She’s written perfectly fine, but some fans can’t get over the fact that she doesn’t adhere to the same exact journey as the saga’s prior protagonists and they feel that because she doesn’t develop her powers in a way that makes sense according to video game logic that makes her “poorly written.” I think it’s ridiculous to engage with the text that way and ignore everything the films are doing. You can choose to think that I’m ridiculous for thinking that and that’s fine. There’s nothing else to say that hasn’t already been said a thousand times.

You miss the point. As always you like others bring up the strawman, that we want Luke 2.0. We don’t. We want a different journey with depth and layers, and feel the ST’s writers did not provide that. They ignored canon for plot convenience, and provided little to fill the gaping holes they left behind in the service of highly condensed storytelling, and franchise extension, that made this universe feel smaller and less consequential than ever.

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I kind of see both sides of this.

I think that Rey is somewhat underwritten, but not enough that I don’t enjoy her journey. Daisy Ridley’s performance is really what makes the character work for me. She elevates the character of Rey, and with a less charismatic actress, I could see myself being more apathetic. Sure, Rey struggles with her identity which comes to what I feel is a satisfying moment of self-honesty and discovery in TLJ. But aside from that, everything seems to come so easy to her which I find a little frustrating. I think we are missing out on a character that could be a bit more well rounded if faced with more obstacles from which she can gain more learning experiences.

Long story short, the writing of her character has been adequate up to this point, but no more than that. I hope she sees a bit more hardship in Ep. IX before it’s all said and done.

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I am also a bit confused towards Rey’s motivation.

I agree with Don in that Rey wants to belong somewhere. An expected reaction for someone so isolated. Further evidence for this:

  • She is in denial that her family will come in TFA
  • She saves BB8, her only friend possibly ever. Her insistence on getting BB8 to the resistance may be due to he trying to help the only friend she has even known.
  • She never outright helps the resistance. She only wields the lightsaber to save Finn, a friend.
  • She asks Luke to “show me her place in all this”.
  • It seems she only wants to know her parents after she is turned down by Luke. Luke’s grumpiness causes Rey to doubt the Jedi way and ponder about her parents once more (the cave).
  • She then develops a force connection with Ben and comes to believe he may have what she seeks (a place to belong to).

All this is building to Rey taking Ben’s hand.

Why would Rey want to join the Jedi? Luke has done nothing but criticize her. We all know the Jedi way is right, but from her POV she just met this grumpy hermit who doesn’t want her. Why should she care about the Jedi?

It seems Rey’s primary motivation in turning down Kylo is because she has friends in the resistance? Like Finn and BB8? But the entire film has been building up Kylo and Rey’s relationship. As for the “she realizes she does not need a purpose, she can make one herself” well wasn’t that where she was before TFA. On her own with no one?

I think Rey would have been a great character had she taken Ben’s hand and charted us a new, bold direction for TROS.

Now she feels more like a missed opportunity bordering “perfect” which is a shame given how close we were. I hope TROS does the best job they can with Rey- if they provide some clarification on her motivation I think the whole Mary Sue argument will finally be over.

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OutboundFlight said:

I am also a bit confused towards Rey’s motivation.

I agree with Don in that Rey wants to belong somewhere. An expected reaction for someone so isolated. Further evidence for this:

  • She is in denial that her family will come in TFA
  • She saves BB8, her only friend possibly ever. Her insistence on getting BB8 to the resistance may be due to he trying to help the only friend she has even known.
  • She never outright helps the resistance. She only wields the lightsaber to save Finn, a friend.
  • She asks Luke to “show me her place in all this”.
  • It seems she only wants to know her parents after she is turned down by Luke. Luke’s grumpiness causes Rey to doubt the Jedi way and ponder about her parents once more (the cave).
  • She then develops a force connection with Ben and comes to believe he may have what she seeks (a place to belong to).

All this is building to Rey taking Ben’s hand.

Why would Rey want to join the Jedi? Luke has done nothing but criticize her. We all know the Jedi way is right, but from her POV she just met this grumpy hermit who doesn’t want her. Why should she care about the Jedi?

It seems Rey’s primary motivation in turning down Kylo is because she has friends in the resistance? Like Finn and BB8? But the entire film has been building up Kylo and Rey’s relationship. As for the “she realizes she does not need a purpose, she can make one herself” well wasn’t that where she was before TFA. On her own with no one?

I think Rey would have been a great character had she taken Ben’s hand and charted us a new, bold direction for TROS.

Now she feels more like a missed opportunity bordering “perfect” which is a shame given how close we were. I hope TROS does the best job they can with Rey- if they provide some clarification on her motivation I think the whole Mary Sue argument will finally be over.

Excellent post! I agree completely!

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How many people here are going to see The Rise of Skywalker once it comes out in cinemas? Do you think excitement may build upon you this upcoming holiday season?

Noah Lawson

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nl0428 said:

How many people here are going to see The Rise of Skywalker once it comes out in cinemas? Do you think excitement may build upon you this upcoming holiday season?

Oh I’m seeing it literally as soon as I can, and likely two or three times in the theater before it’s all said and done, as I have done with 10 movies prior(I was too young when the OT originally came out to have seen them in theaters, but I saw the remasters in theaters).

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DarthSchneider said:

nl0428 said:

How many people here are going to see The Rise of Skywalker once it comes out in cinemas? Do you think excitement may build upon you this upcoming holiday season?

(I was too young when the OT originally came out to have seen them in theaters, but I saw the remasters in theaters).

I was actually born a few weeks before The Phantom Menace was first released.

Noah Lawson

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OutboundFlight said:

I am also a bit confused towards Rey’s motivation.

I agree with Don in that Rey wants to belong somewhere. An expected reaction for someone so isolated. Further evidence for this:

  • She is in denial that her family will come in TFA
  • She saves BB8, her only friend possibly ever. Her insistence on getting BB8 to the resistance may be due to he trying to help the only friend she has even known.
  • She never outright helps the resistance. She only wields the lightsaber to save Finn, a friend.
  • She asks Luke to “show me her place in all this”.
  • It seems she only wants to know her parents after she is turned down by Luke. Luke’s grumpiness causes Rey to doubt the Jedi way and ponder about her parents once more (the cave).
  • She then develops a force connection with Ben and comes to believe he may have what she seeks (a place to belong to).

All this is building to Rey taking Ben’s hand.

Why would Rey want to join the Jedi? Luke has done nothing but criticize her. We all know the Jedi way is right, but from her POV she just met this grumpy hermit who doesn’t want her. Why should she care about the Jedi?

It seems Rey’s primary motivation in turning down Kylo is because she has friends in the resistance? Like Finn and BB8? But the entire film has been building up Kylo and Rey’s relationship. As for the “she realizes she does not need a purpose, she can make one herself” well wasn’t that where she was before TFA. On her own with no one?

I think Rey would have been a great character had she taken Ben’s hand and charted us a new, bold direction for TROS.

Now she feels more like a missed opportunity bordering “perfect” which is a shame given how close we were. I hope TROS does the best job they can with Rey- if they provide some clarification on her motivation I think the whole Mary Sue argument will finally be over.

I like the sentiment here, but I can’t agree. She absolutely believes in the Resistance and helps them.

In TFA, she fights off stormtroopers and ultimately gets captured by Kylo because she was protecting BB-8 and letting him get back to the Resistance, because the droid was “too important”. The moment her and Kylo finish defeating the Praetorian Guards in TLJ, she was begging Kylo to stop the firing on the Resistance.

Her first words to Luke are “I’m from the Resistance. Your sister Leia sent me. We need your help.” A little later, she’s pitching to Luke the whole dilemma of Kylo Ren getting stronger and the First Order controlling all the major systems within weeks. She definitely wants him to help, as well as to help her find her own answers. When she escapes Kylo at the end of TLJ, she’s gunning down TIE fighters from the Falcon and rescuing the remainder of the Resistance from the cave.

If she takes Ben’s hand at the end of TLJ, then you(maybe not you specifically, but people arguing this) would be saying “What about her friends and her allegiance to the resistance? All she had in her life were her friends and a cause, and she just threw them away because Ben said “join me” one time?” Kylo betraying Snoke was a bold move, but is that enough motivation to convince her to throw away everything she has?

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nl0428 said:

DarthSchneider said:

nl0428 said:

How many people here are going to see The Rise of Skywalker once it comes out in cinemas? Do you think excitement may build upon you this upcoming holiday season?

(I was too young when the OT originally came out to have seen them in theaters, but I saw the remasters in theaters).

I was actually born a few weeks before The Phantom Menace was first released.

I was born between Empire and Jedi, haha.

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DarthSchneider said:

OutboundFlight said:

I am also a bit confused towards Rey’s motivation.

I agree with Don in that Rey wants to belong somewhere. An expected reaction for someone so isolated. Further evidence for this:

  • She is in denial that her family will come in TFA
  • She saves BB8, her only friend possibly ever. Her insistence on getting BB8 to the resistance may be due to he trying to help the only friend she has even known.
  • She never outright helps the resistance. She only wields the lightsaber to save Finn, a friend.
  • She asks Luke to “show me her place in all this”.
  • It seems she only wants to know her parents after she is turned down by Luke. Luke’s grumpiness causes Rey to doubt the Jedi way and ponder about her parents once more (the cave).
  • She then develops a force connection with Ben and comes to believe he may have what she seeks (a place to belong to).

All this is building to Rey taking Ben’s hand.

Why would Rey want to join the Jedi? Luke has done nothing but criticize her. We all know the Jedi way is right, but from her POV she just met this grumpy hermit who doesn’t want her. Why should she care about the Jedi?

It seems Rey’s primary motivation in turning down Kylo is because she has friends in the resistance? Like Finn and BB8? But the entire film has been building up Kylo and Rey’s relationship. As for the “she realizes she does not need a purpose, she can make one herself” well wasn’t that where she was before TFA. On her own with no one?

I think Rey would have been a great character had she taken Ben’s hand and charted us a new, bold direction for TROS.

Now she feels more like a missed opportunity bordering “perfect” which is a shame given how close we were. I hope TROS does the best job they can with Rey- if they provide some clarification on her motivation I think the whole Mary Sue argument will finally be over.

I like the sentiment here, but I can’t agree. She absolutely believes in the Resistance and helps them.

In TFA, she fights off stormtroopers and ultimately gets captured by Kylo because she was protecting BB-8 and letting him get back to the Resistance, because the droid was “too important”. The moment her and Kylo finish defeating the Praetorian Guards in TLJ, she was begging Kylo to stop the firing on the Resistance.

Her first words to Luke are “I’m from the Resistance. Your sister Leia sent me. We need your help.” A little later, she’s pitching to Luke the whole dilemma of Kylo Ren getting stronger and the First Order controlling all the major systems within weeks. She definitely wants him to help, as well as to help her find her own answers. When she escapes Kylo at the end of TLJ, she’s gunning down TIE fighters from the Falcon and rescuing the remainder of the Resistance from the cave.

If she takes Ben’s hand at the end of TLJ, then you(maybe not you specifically, but people arguing this) would be saying “What about her friends and her allegiance to the resistance? All she had in her life were her friends and a cause, and she just threw them away because Ben said “join me” one time?” Kylo betraying Snoke was a bold move, but is that enough motivation to convince her to throw away everything she has?

But what is her personal stake in this, her personal motivation? Why does she support the Resistance other than they appear to be “the good guys”. It’s perfectly fine for her to want to help BB-8. It makes her a sympathetic character, but other than being thrust into this story by circumstances, and suddenly being bestowed with magical powers her character has no history or connections beyond the ones established with BB-8, Finn, and Han Solo. She’s a sympathetic blank slate, an avatar for the light side of the Force. If she was a developed character, she would struggle with the powers that were given to her. She would make some bad decisions, and her naivity would have serious consequences, and repercusions. In stead she seems to instinctively make the right decisions, has plot armor, and ultimately ends up being just in time to rescue the remains of the Resistance.

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OutboundFlight said:

I am also a bit confused towards Rey’s motivation.

I agree with Don in that Rey wants to belong somewhere. An expected reaction for someone so isolated. Further evidence for this:

  • She is in denial that her family will come in TFA
  • She saves BB8, her only friend possibly ever. Her insistence on getting BB8 to the resistance may be due to he trying to help the only friend she has even known.
  • She never outright helps the resistance. She only wields the lightsaber to save Finn, a friend.
  • She asks Luke to “show me her place in all this”.
  • It seems she only wants to know her parents after she is turned down by Luke. Luke’s grumpiness causes Rey to doubt the Jedi way and ponder about her parents once more (the cave).
  • She then develops a force connection with Ben and comes to believe he may have what she seeks (a place to belong to).

All this is building to Rey taking Ben’s hand.

Why would Rey want to join the Jedi? Luke has done nothing but criticize her. We all know the Jedi way is right, but from her POV she just met this grumpy hermit who doesn’t want her. Why should she care about the Jedi?

It seems Rey’s primary motivation in turning down Kylo is because she has friends in the resistance? Like Finn and BB8? But the entire film has been building up Kylo and Rey’s relationship. As for the “she realizes she does not need a purpose, she can make one herself” well wasn’t that where she was before TFA. On her own with no one?

I think Rey would have been a great character had she taken Ben’s hand and charted us a new, bold direction for TROS.

Now she feels more like a missed opportunity bordering “perfect” which is a shame given how close we were. I hope TROS does the best job they can with Rey- if they provide some clarification on her motivation I think the whole Mary Sue argument will finally be over.

First of all, Rey had no purpose on Jakku besides waiting for her parents to show up and give her one. Being able to take care of yourself does not mean you have a purpose in life. Her life was literally in wait.

Second, Rey turning down Kylo because she has friends in the Resistance is not a minor thing. It’s a huge part of her character. Her story in TFA is all about learning to find a new family with her friends in the Resistance. You seem to acknowledge this, yet you come to the conclusion that that this is leading up to her forsaking those friends for Ben instead? Her connection to Ben is less about finding family and more about finding purpose (two related concepts yet ultimately not the same). The purpose Ben offers is ultimately in direct opposition to her new family and her underlying ideologies. So instead she goes with the way of the Jedi, and chooses that as her purpose. Why does she choose the Jedi way as her purpose? Well here’s the thing. You’re right that Luke rebuffs her, which is why she turns to Ben in the first place. But why should she have animosity against the Jedi because of how Luke treated her? The whole reason Luke treats her that way is because Luke doesn’t want her to be a Jedi. For most of the film she remains steadfast in her faith in the stories she’s been told of the Jedi, and more importantly Luke. At the end of the film, I tend to think moving forward that Luke’s lessons have convinced her not to be too beholden to the old ways (Luke’s plan is essentially to force Rey to pick up the mantle of the Jedi, but from scratch on her own), but she sees through Luke’s crankiness and believes there is still some wisdom and power to be learned from the Jedi (and she’s right, of course, as Luke proves in his final standoff). Some of the final conclusions to be made here (Rey learning Luke’s final lesson of failure, for instance) aren’t explicitly dramatized in TLJ so I hope it’s a part of Rey’s character building in TROS.

Honestly I’ve always hated the “it would’ve been so badass if Rey turned bad.” It feels like a pretty shallow desire. If it happened it would have been a complete betrayal of everything we know about her character. On the other hand, you could say, well Kylo didn’t have to say he was going to destroy the Resistance, he could have turned good then and there. Except that would have been a betrayal of his character at that moment. What makes Rey/Kylo a compelling protagonist/antagonist pairing is the way they compare and contrast. If they had just joined together and did their own thing, that would have been the bland middle road. What would that choice say about their characters? What direction would they go from there? It feels like a rather uncompelling way to end a middle chapter. What TLJ did is show two people who have a connection, who can work together under the right circumstances, and who can accomplish great things when in that union, but who ultimately have no choice but to go separate ways because of fundamental differences in terms of ideology/personality. It’s a much more interesting conflict to me than Rey and Kylo vs. the world. The version of Rey vs. Kylo that TLJ sets up is a very complex one and I’m very interested to see where it goes.

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DominicCobb said:

OutboundFlight said:

I am also a bit confused towards Rey’s motivation.

I agree with Don in that Rey wants to belong somewhere. An expected reaction for someone so isolated. Further evidence for this:

  • She is in denial that her family will come in TFA
  • She saves BB8, her only friend possibly ever. Her insistence on getting BB8 to the resistance may be due to he trying to help the only friend she has even known.
  • She never outright helps the resistance. She only wields the lightsaber to save Finn, a friend.
  • She asks Luke to “show me her place in all this”.
  • It seems she only wants to know her parents after she is turned down by Luke. Luke’s grumpiness causes Rey to doubt the Jedi way and ponder about her parents once more (the cave).
  • She then develops a force connection with Ben and comes to believe he may have what she seeks (a place to belong to).

All this is building to Rey taking Ben’s hand.

Why would Rey want to join the Jedi? Luke has done nothing but criticize her. We all know the Jedi way is right, but from her POV she just met this grumpy hermit who doesn’t want her. Why should she care about the Jedi?

It seems Rey’s primary motivation in turning down Kylo is because she has friends in the resistance? Like Finn and BB8? But the entire film has been building up Kylo and Rey’s relationship. As for the “she realizes she does not need a purpose, she can make one herself” well wasn’t that where she was before TFA. On her own with no one?

I think Rey would have been a great character had she taken Ben’s hand and charted us a new, bold direction for TROS.

Now she feels more like a missed opportunity bordering “perfect” which is a shame given how close we were. I hope TROS does the best job they can with Rey- if they provide some clarification on her motivation I think the whole Mary Sue argument will finally be over.

First of all, Rey had no purpose on Jakku besides waiting for her parents to show up and give her one. Being able to take care of yourself does not mean you have a purpose in life. Her life was literally in wait.

This pretty much summarizes the flaws that were built into her character from the first moment she appears on screen. She has no history, character, or purpose. She’s sympathetic, and self-reliant, and that’s about it. She’s literally waiting for whatever the writers decide will be her destiny. She’s a void waiting to be filled. Her character is thus entirely story and plot driven, rather than character driven. Her decisions, and character traits aren’t informed by her history, and experiences.

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I feel like you’re trolling me at this point honestly.

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.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here?
And say something righteous and hopeful for a change?

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I wouldn’t say Rey’s character is perfectly written but I really don’t think its fair to say that she just waits around for what the writers tell her to do at all. She gets thrust into a journey initially to help BB8, but then she meets her mentor, Han Solo. Her personal stake on the cause for the resistance comes from the fact that she gets tortured by Kylo and then watches him kill the only person who ever offered her an opportunity. She picks up the lightsaber at the end in order to defend herself but more importantly it represents an opportunity to finally find her purpose, which she has lacked her whole life. This is further explored in tlj when she basically learns that nobody is going to show her where she belongs and that she must define it for herself. She defines what being a jedi is FOR HERSELF, by following the lessons from the OT, which culminates in parting ways from kylo saving her friends. Just like luke defined what being a jedi was for himself in rotj when he saved his father instead of killing him (which obi-wan says he should do btw) Furthermore in tlj Luke REALLY defines what a jedi is. I don’t really think I have to explain this part. My only concern is that Rey will never have to learn the lesson Luke leanred in tlj. The lesson of failure…

I really want to hear both sides viewpoint on this. I’m just sad that we have to be so extreme in our views guys. We are all on the same side here. We all just want our star wars to be the best it can be with the way it is written. I just hope we can all be open to the future, and to give IX a chance.

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SWOTFAN25 said:

I wouldn’t say Rey’s character is perfectly written but I really don’t think its fair to say that she just waits around for what the writers tell her to do at all. She gets thrust into a journey initially to help BB8, but then she meets her mentor, Han Solo. Her personal stake on the cause for the resistance comes from the fact that she gets tortured by Kylo and then watches him kill the only person who ever offered her an opportunity. She picks up the lightsaber at the end in order to defend herself but more importantly it represents an opportunity to finally find her purpose, which she has lacked her whole life. This is further explored in tlj when she basically learns that nobody is going to show her where she belongs and that she must define it for herself. She defines what being a jedi is FOR HERSELF, by following the lessons from the OT, which culminates in parting ways from kylo saving her friends. Just like luke defined what being a jedi was for himself in rotj when he saved his father instead of killing him (which obi-wan says he should do btw) Furthermore in tlj Luke REALLY defines what a jedi is. I don’t really think I have to explain this part. My only concern is that Rey will never have to learn the lesson Luke leanred in tlj. The lesson of failure…

I really want to hear both sides viewpoint on this. I’m just sad that we have to be so extreme in our views guys. We are all on the same side here. We all just want our star wars to be the best it can be with the way it is written. I just hope we can all be open to the future, and to give IX a chance.

Some people like Rey as a character, some people don’t, and some are in the middle. I’m in the middle leaning a bit more to the don’t side. There are things I like about her character, and how she was used in the story, and others I don’t. Overall the dislikes outweigh the likes for me, but I’m sure it will be different for other people. All of these positions are fine, and there’s no right or wrong in these discussions. It’s a shame some take these arguments so personally, and can’t keep emotions out of discussions, which should be restricted to the content of the films.

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DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

OutboundFlight said:

I am also a bit confused towards Rey’s motivation.

I agree with Don in that Rey wants to belong somewhere. An expected reaction for someone so isolated. Further evidence for this:

  • She is in denial that her family will come in TFA
  • She saves BB8, her only friend possibly ever. Her insistence on getting BB8 to the resistance may be due to he trying to help the only friend she has even known.
  • She never outright helps the resistance. She only wields the lightsaber to save Finn, a friend.
  • She asks Luke to “show me her place in all this”.
  • It seems she only wants to know her parents after she is turned down by Luke. Luke’s grumpiness causes Rey to doubt the Jedi way and ponder about her parents once more (the cave).
  • She then develops a force connection with Ben and comes to believe he may have what she seeks (a place to belong to).

All this is building to Rey taking Ben’s hand.

Why would Rey want to join the Jedi? Luke has done nothing but criticize her. We all know the Jedi way is right, but from her POV she just met this grumpy hermit who doesn’t want her. Why should she care about the Jedi?

It seems Rey’s primary motivation in turning down Kylo is because she has friends in the resistance? Like Finn and BB8? But the entire film has been building up Kylo and Rey’s relationship. As for the “she realizes she does not need a purpose, she can make one herself” well wasn’t that where she was before TFA. On her own with no one?

I think Rey would have been a great character had she taken Ben’s hand and charted us a new, bold direction for TROS.

Now she feels more like a missed opportunity bordering “perfect” which is a shame given how close we were. I hope TROS does the best job they can with Rey- if they provide some clarification on her motivation I think the whole Mary Sue argument will finally be over.

First of all, Rey had no purpose on Jakku besides waiting for her parents to show up and give her one. Being able to take care of yourself does not mean you have a purpose in life. Her life was literally in wait.

This pretty much summarizes the flaws that were built into her character from the first moment she appears on screen. She has no history, character, or purpose. She’s sympathetic, and self-reliant, and that’s about it. She’s literally waiting for whatever the writers decide will be her destiny. She’s a void waiting to be filled. Her character is thus entirely story and plot driven, rather than character driven. Her decisions, and character traits aren’t informed by her history, and experiences.

From the moment she appears on screen I would say she has all of those things.
History: Rey was abandoned by her parents as a child and remained a scavenging junkyard orphan her whole life. She has no family, or friends at the start of TFA. She is initially very hostile towards both BB8 and finn. From the very beginning she thinks her purpose is to wait for her family to come back one day.

Her character seems pretty clear to me as well. She is trying to find her purpose, and she cares about her friends because they are the first people to have ever shown care for her. She joins the resistance becuase she gets tortured and her her friends get murdered by the first order. She knows she has to become a jedi because she thinks this will give her purpose.

I’m just curious as to what specific decisions or character traits aren’t informed by history or experience, and I don’t mean this in any offensive way I actually really just want to have a discussion LOL.