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Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * SPOILER THREAD * — Page 83

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So, George is secretly the random critics we’ve never heard of that studios love to quote in ads and on video covers? 😉

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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I’m actually pretty sure the “what the fans want” TFA quote is a pull from a longer quote where he specifically says they decided to go in a retro direction that he didn’t want to do, but I might be conflating two different quotes there, I can’t remember.

a trolling bantha

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OutboundFlight said:

nl0428 said:

These are the quotes from George Lucas on the sequel trilogy.

I might be digging too deep into this but it’s kinda funny when you think this way… just for the record, I don’t think there’s any blood between Lucas and Disney, I think he might not enjoy the current direction Star Wars is going, but he isn’t salty about it. If Disney approached him for Episode 9 he’ll help motivate them… towards his perferred direction.

THE FORCE AWAKENS:
“I think the fans are going to love it. It’s very much the kind of movie they’ve been looking for.”

Could be interpreted as fan service. It is very much what the fans want, although not necessarily what he wants. From Lucas’s perspective, the OT was his story but was blocked and altered by studio execs and producers. George Lucas expected the fans would love his unblocked vision of a PT, but was wrong, and now has come to believe the fans are looking for more of the OT. We can all agree TFA has many similarities to the ST (for better or worse I won’t get into), therefore, Lucas was correct in his analysis. This was what the fans were looking for.

THE LAST JEDI:
He thought it was “beautifully made.”

Indeed, The Last Jedi was beautiful. Best cinematography of any SW movie. Concerning the storytelling… that is up in the air, but Lucas at no point mentions it. Therefore his analysis is (once again) perfectly accurate- even if at first glance we think it translates into “I love it”.

IMG

C’mon even if you hate TLJ, that’s beautifully made.

I actually love The Last Jedi, and the sequel trilogy overall. I think it’s an amazing entry to the Star Wars saga and just great overall. I also don’t necessarily think that Lucas isn’t happy with Disney. Not necessarily with them refusing his story treatments, though.

Noah Lawson

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He can go to any Disney park he wants free for life, and probably cut the lines too. What’s not to be happy about? 😛

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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SilverWook said:

So, George is secretly the random critics we’ve never heard of that studios love to quote in ads and on video covers? 😉

TRIUMPHANT.

nl0428 said:

OutboundFlight said:

nl0428 said:

These are the quotes from George Lucas on the sequel trilogy.

I might be digging too deep into this but it’s kinda funny when you think this way… just for the record, I don’t think there’s any blood between Lucas and Disney, I think he might not enjoy the current direction Star Wars is going, but he isn’t salty about it. If Disney approached him for Episode 9 he’ll help motivate them… towards his perferred direction.

THE FORCE AWAKENS:
“I think the fans are going to love it. It’s very much the kind of movie they’ve been looking for.”

Could be interpreted as fan service. It is very much what the fans want, although not necessarily what he wants. From Lucas’s perspective, the OT was his story but was blocked and altered by studio execs and producers. George Lucas expected the fans would love his unblocked vision of a PT, but was wrong, and now has come to believe the fans are looking for more of the OT. We can all agree TFA has many similarities to the ST (for better or worse I won’t get into), therefore, Lucas was correct in his analysis. This was what the fans were looking for.

THE LAST JEDI:
He thought it was “beautifully made.”

Indeed, The Last Jedi was beautiful. Best cinematography of any SW movie. Concerning the storytelling… that is up in the air, but Lucas at no point mentions it. Therefore his analysis is (once again) perfectly accurate- even if at first glance we think it translates into “I love it”.

IMG

C’mon even if you hate TLJ, that’s beautifully made.

I actually love The Last Jedi, and the sequel trilogy overall. I think it’s an amazing entry to the Star Wars saga and just great overall. I also don’t necessarily think that Lucas isn’t happy with Disney. Not necessarily with them refusing his story treatments, though.

Maybe it just comes down to our own opinions. You are optimistic (which is better tbh), I am pessimistic, and we each think George thinks our opinions. I suppose it’s a tossup.

The Clone Wars Cinematic Universe

Maul- Part of the CW Cinematic Universe (but old)

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OutboundFlight said:

C’mon even if you hate TLJ, that’s beautifully made.

The cinematography is actually my one of my main issues with the movie (with the exception of that shot maybe). That might sound really dumb compared to the problems everybody else has with it, but whatever. Not to turn this into a hate TLJ thread, but I’m so glad JJ can return the look he gave TFA to TROS.

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nl0428 said:

THE LAST JEDI:
He thought it was “beautifully made.”

OutboundFlight said:
Concerning the storytelling… that is up in the air, but Lucas at no point mentions it. Therefore his analysis is (once again) perfectly accurate- even if at first glance we think it translates into “I love it”.

IMG

C’mon even if you hate TLJ, that’s beautifully made.

That’s about the only positive thing I can say about the movie and I feel GL’s comment is definitely in the same vein. In conjunction with his “white slavers” comment I very much get the feeling he is none to happy with the direction they are taking the story (if you can call this soft reboot collage of recycled OT parts a story).

I think Rian probably did a good job directing it as well though he should never have been allowed to write it and saying it was well directed is not exactly a positive in the case that you hate the movie anyway…

“You sir did a masterful job in painting this life like rendition, but I must ask…where is the enjoyment in the painting being of a cow pattie? I mean the field setting looks nice and all and the setting sun adds some dramatic effect, but what were you hoping to achieve with a cow turd?”

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Lesser said:

I’m so glad JJ can return the look he gave TFA to TROS.

This is sadly what is going to happen, only by judging from the look of TROS trailer: JJ is back… and so is his cheap looking style 😕

(the guy is a showrunner, not a filmmaker… when I rewatched the whole Mission Impossible saga last year, his entry between John Woo’s and Brad Bird’s contributions was very hard to watch, it got so old and cheap, so his is TFA)

Among Disney’s SW, only R1 and TLJ display high cinematography of the same level seen on Episode I to VI. I really wish Rian had directed Episode IX 😦

“I have to say that I felt George’s group of six films had more innovative visual imagination, and this film was more of a retrenchment to things you had seen before and characters you had seen before, and it took a few baby steps forward with new characters.” - James Cameron about Episode VII.

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R1 for me actually feels by far the most what a modernised and newer Star Wars film should look and feel like. Just add the crawl back in and fix a few things such as the scene transitions and removing the location cards and you’d be pretty much there for a perfect modern take on Star Wars post OT which isn’t that far removed from it visually.

I think the ST fully directed by Gareth Edwards with the overarching story written by one person with a number of contributing writers helping to review, sanity check and flesh out the individual scripts for each ST movie could have made for a far more compelling Star Wars experience and continuation of the OT we all love.

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I don’t necessarily understand why most fans believe Rogue One is the best piece of content from the new era of Star Wars. Is it because it’s a direct prequel to A New Hope and that it’s set during the classic Galactic Civil War? I personally thought Rogue One was good, but it had some issues (I won’t discuss them here, since this thread is about The Rise of Skywalker). I actually thought both The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi were better than Rogue One, and especially Solo.

These are my rankings for the films overall.

  1. The Empire Strikes Back
  2. A New Hope
  3. The Last Jedi
  4. The Force Awakens
  5. Return of the Jedi
  6. Rogue One
  7. Revenge of the Sith
  8. Solo
  9. The Phantom Menace
  10. Attack of the Clones

Noah Lawson

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MalàStrana said:

Among Disney’s SW, only R1 and TLJ display high cinematography of the same level seen on Episode I to VI. I really wish Rian had directed Episode IX 😦

First time I’ve ever heard someone extol the prequels as having “high cinematography”. Honestly I think they are among the least creatively shot movies I have ever seen. Even in Episode IV–great as it is–the cinematography is just serviceable.

J.J. Abrams is not nearly as creative as Rian Johnson, but his work in VII is so much better than anything in the prequels.

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A gentle reminder that this is an Episode IX thread.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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Just had a thought that would be cool, which is slight old EU references in the film. Like it’s definitely not gonna happen at all but imagine if the big twist was a Star Wars dual universe situation where the big bad is actually Jacen Solo or something

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There’s a really cool fan film that does something like this with the mirror scene in TLJ where instead of seeing herself she sees Jaina Solo and they “talk”.

Imagine a scene where the team goes to the Death Star and sees flashes of their Eu counterparts. Rey sees Jaina and the struggles she had to go through of killing her brother.

An almost “this is what could have been, but the force interfered with the flow of time. Creating you, Rey. The entity was unable to stop Jacen from falling, yet his name did change.”

I don’t know it would be cool
Like how old TMNT crosses over with the one from 2003

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ChainsawAsh said:

I’m actually pretty sure the “what the fans want” TFA quote is a pull from a longer quote where he specifically says they decided to go in a retro direction that he didn’t want to do, but I might be conflating two different quotes there, I can’t remember.

I think it’s called damning with faint praise

Edit: okay I only saw Silverwook’s post after this.

Yub Nub for life

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MalàStrana said:

This is sadly what is going to happen, only by judging from the look of TROS trailer: JJ is back… and so is his cheap looking style 😕

I agree that TFA does look the cheapest for some reason in comparison to Rogue One and Solo, but TLJ to me looks the most like a high budget fan film. Maybe I’m just really stupid but that’s how I feel when I watch it. The story choices really don’t bother, anger, or upset me, so at least I can say I’m not bias against the film to make that statement.

I would love to know which shots in TROS trailer look cheap to you, because I’m just not seeing what you’re seeing. The opening scene looks stunning to me, and I’m hoping we can get that lightsaber impact back that he gave us in TFA.

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DominicCobb said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

You said she won the cosmic lottery. Lotteries are random. That means she was randomly chosen. That’s what that word means. And whether she was “chosen” or not is completely debatable.

Touché, but considering how virtuous, and perfect she is, I take back the cosmic lotery statement, and maintain she was chosen to be the hero:

“Darkness rises, and light to meet it.”

She is thus her destiny to be the defender of the light, not by choice.

That’s still your interpretation. It was someone’s destiny to defend the light. She made the choice to be that someone.

Hello! Do you think that the “awakening” Snoke felt in TFA happened in more than one person? Rey states in TLJ “something inside me has always been there, and now it has awake”. My interpretation is therefore that the force chose her, in a somewhat similar way it chose Anakin in the PT.

Maybe what you say is true, that the awakening happened in more people, “someone’s destiny to defend the light”, but it’s harder to support that claim than it is to support the claim that she was chosen. There’s been no evidence that the awakening of the light to match the dark happened in other people. Even Snoke in TLJ identified said awakening as her.

Anyway, food for thought.

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Omni said:

DominicCobb said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

You said she won the cosmic lottery. Lotteries are random. That means she was randomly chosen. That’s what that word means. And whether she was “chosen” or not is completely debatable.

Touché, but considering how virtuous, and perfect she is, I take back the cosmic lotery statement, and maintain she was chosen to be the hero:

“Darkness rises, and light to meet it.”

She is thus her destiny to be the defender of the light, not by choice.

That’s still your interpretation. It was someone’s destiny to defend the light. She made the choice to be that someone.

Hello! Do you think that the “awakening” Snoke felt in TFA happened in more than one person? Rey states in TLJ “something inside me has always been there, and now it has awake”. My interpretation is therefore that the force chose her, in a somewhat similar way it chose Anakin in the PT.

Maybe what you say is true, that the awakening happened in more people, “someone’s destiny to defend the light”, but it’s harder to support that claim than it is to support the claim that she was chosen. There’s been no evidence that the awakening of the light to match the dark happened in other people. Even Snoke in TLJ identified said awakening as her.

Anyway, food for thought.

Well it’s very open to interpretation. I think there’s a few ways you could look at it. That’s one way, sure. Another way is yes, the force awakened in many people (the end of TLJ could potentially support this). The way I tend to look at it is that Rey, in conjunction with her being in the right place at the right time, tapped into the force which then awakened in her. So kind of like there was this pent up force potential in the world and she grabbed onto it (when? I would say when she made the daring escape with the Falcon). Of course the light has always been there within her, as it is with many others who I would say have the potential but don’t find the situation or the strength to tap into it.

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Very interesting way to look at it.

It’s similar to how I interpret the disturbance in the force from TESB. I see it as when Luke, after 3 or so years of doing as best as he could with the minimal instruction he’d been given, finally achieved a massive checkpoint when he was in the cave. That being that he, when in a situation of extreme danger, concentrated and focused, and ‘calmly’ used the force, which is absolutely a trait of the light side of the force and something that Ben tried to teach him, and that Yoda emphasizes.

Back to the ST, I can see the boy from Canto Bight supporting a direct opposing argument to the one I made. But the one you’re making is hard to argue against due to simply being something very hard to demonstrate on screen without losing focus of a film. Still, the question should be, do you think that this ‘pent up force potential’ is still around, or that it is now all concentrated on Rey and she’s the sole hero? I think that’s essentially what would show if she’s Rey Random in one way or in another, or even not at all, like DrDre and Anchorhead argued.

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No I don’t think it’s just Rey at all. That’s one of the biggest points of the final scene of TLJ, showing that this is a potential that lives in many (random people) throughout the galaxy. I hope TROS delves into this aspect in some regard.

In the larger sense, in terms of what I’m explaining, it’s my interpretation and I think it’s good that it’s left to interpretation. In my mind where Rey gets her powers from doesn’t matter so much as what she chooses to do with them.

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DominicCobb said:

No I don’t think it’s just Rey at all. That’s one of the biggest points of the final scene of TLJ, showing that this is a potential that lives in many (random people) throughout the galaxy. I hope TROS delves into this aspect in some regard.

In the larger sense, in terms of what I’m explaining, it’s my interpretation and I think it’s good that it’s left to interpretation. In my mind where Rey gets her powers from doesn’t matter so much as what she chooses to do with them.

Which brings us back to motivation. It’s not just what she does, but why? Luke wanted to leave Tatooine, and join his friends in the Academy. He wanted to know who his father was, and follow in his footsteps. Luke has personal motivations for joining the fight, for wanting to be a Jedi. What is Rey’s motivation going into TROS? Why does she want to be a Jedi? Thusfar it seems, that it is, because the plot has forced her into this position. Her main motivation for going to find Luke, is the powers she recieved from on high. Then Luke disappoints, and she’s convinced through Snoke’s deception, that Ben Solo is the answer for the Resistance. Then that plan awry, she ends up saving the remains of the Resistance, and is now apparently the heir to the Jedi religion. Her entire character development is heavily plot driven, forced into her position in the story by circumstances.

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We’ve been over this. Until the end of TLJ, she wasn’t trying to be a Jedi at all. She and Luke are very different.

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DominicCobb said:

We’ve been over this. Until the end of TLJ, she wasn’t trying to be a Jedi at all. She and Luke are very different.

Yes, but what does she want? In TFA she’s waiting for her family, and has to accept they’re not coming back. She is then forced through circumstance to accept this “gift” of the Force, that she has recieved. In TLJ she has apparently joined the Resistance, and seeks out Luke for council. Luke turns out to be a disappointment, and in her search for answers for the situation she’s been more or less forced into, she gets duped by Snoke in believing, that Ben Solo is the answer for her, and the Resistance. She escapes knowing her parents were drunks, and then having learned her past does not define her, she accepts her destiny to be the next Jedi. On the other hand she doesn’t really have any other purpose or relationships, that define her. Her only friend is Finn, a relationship, that wasn’t further developed in TLJ. All her mentors are dead. She has no history, or lineage. Being a Jedi gives meaning to what would otherwise be an empty existence. By the end of TLJ little remains, but to fulfill the destiny, that was chosen for her by the powers that be.

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As I’ve stated before when this has come up, she’s looking for for her place in the world. At first she thinks she’s looking for someone to show her her purpose, by the end of TLJ she’s coming to understand that she’ll find her purpose on her own. Everything she does comes down to that and her innate goodness (which are connected, she longs for connection and is isolated but empathetic - look at her saving BB8, empathetic to his plight and ultimately finds kinship with him). Even without building the new Jedi she has still found the place she was looking for with her friends in the Resistance. She hasn’t been forced into anything except situations, where it was up to her to make active choices about where she wants to take her life path.