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Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * SPOILER THREAD * — Page 76

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Fang Zei said:

I want to say there was a Star Wars novel with that title as well, but that could be my memory playing tricks on me.

There was one. I also have a novel that was released as promotion for Revenge of the Sith’s release about Obi-Wan beginning his exile on Tatooine called, “The Last of the Jedi”.


Noah Lawson

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You’d think they would have a database of all SW titles just so this doesn’t happen?

At the very least, I would think someone at Lucasfilm would at least check to make sure there isn’t some obscure thing out there already called The Phantom Menace, or Attack Of The Clones, the owners of which who could potentially sue them later?

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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SilverWook said:

You’d think they would have a database of all SW titles just so this doesn’t happen?

At the very least, I would think someone at Lucasfilm would at least check to make sure there isn’t some obscure thing out there already called The Phantom Menace, or Attack Of The Clones, the owners of which who could sue them later?

Ehh…it doesn’t really matter all that much. A title is just a title. The best thing to do is to create the title that you think best suits the entirety and meaning of your feature film.

Noah Lawson

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TFA was almost called Shadow of the Empire.

I don’t mind reusing Legends titles honestly, but repeated titles in canon would be awkward.

a trolling bantha

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Internal to the franchise, yes. But if they missed an existing non SW property that had trademarked a title they wanted? IIRC, there was some legal wrangling over Ghostbusters, because there was a 1970’s Saturday morning show that had already used the name.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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dahmage said:

I just hope we all keep our theorizing in check (or at least acknowledge that we are probably wrong, despite the fun of it), as fan theories are almost always wrong and I would hate for us to ruin our enjoyment of the movie we will eventually get.

That said I’m looking forward to this!

Yes always I good thing to keep in mind.

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dahmage said:

The last several posts were a delight to read.

I just hope we all keep our theorizing in check (or at least acknowledge that we are probably wrong, despite the fun of it), as fan theories are almost always wrong and I would hate for us to ruin our enjoyment of the movie we will eventually get.

That said I’m looking forward to this!

Couldn’t have said it any better. Thanks, Dahmage!

Noah Lawson

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DominicCobb said:
What I’m getting is, Rey needs to be jailed in IX for theft. Let’s Make Star Wars Pointlessly Pedantic About Possesions and Inheritance! That’s what the series has always needed. Can’t wait for the climactic court case where Kylo Ren claims ownership of the Falcon.

Valheru_84 said:
It is not my intent to be overly literal and logical about it all (it’s just how my thought process works), my initial feeling that Rey didn’t have the right to just take the saber from Luke was just that - a feeling, which contributed to my dislike for the character. It is only in discussing and trying to explain it that I am looking deeper myself and laying out my detailed perspective on why I happen to see it this way, often in response to simplistic replies that seem to brush it aside as nothing of consequence despite it having an impact on the judgement of Rey’s moral fibre (which is why I also tie the matter into her physical abuse of Luke and threatening him with the saber which at this point is not even her’s to use).

Hey Dom…you remember how I made that point a while back how I felt that Rey had no right to take Luke’s lightsaber that he inherited from his father? - I’d completely forgotten that Rey also took the original Jedi texts! So while there are some shades of grey and certain points of view (if you will) that can be debated about the whole saber matter, I think the Jedi texts are pretty much a clear cut 2nd example of Rey’s tendency to just take things that don’t belong to her (ie. stealing). Whatever justifications can be made that do ring true, it doesn’t change the circumstances under which she took things that weren’t hers to take.

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Valheru_84 said:

DominicCobb said:
What I’m getting is, Rey needs to be jailed in IX for theft. Let’s Make Star Wars Pointlessly Pedantic About Possesions and Inheritance! That’s what the series has always needed. Can’t wait for the climactic court case where Kylo Ren claims ownership of the Falcon.

Valheru_84 said:
It is not my intent to be overly literal and logical about it all (it’s just how my thought process works), my initial feeling that Rey didn’t have the right to just take the saber from Luke was just that - a feeling, which contributed to my dislike for the character. It is only in discussing and trying to explain it that I am looking deeper myself and laying out my detailed perspective on why I happen to see it this way, often in response to simplistic replies that seem to brush it aside as nothing of consequence despite it having an impact on the judgement of Rey’s moral fibre (which is why I also tie the matter into her physical abuse of Luke and threatening him with the saber which at this point is not even her’s to use).

Hey Dom…you remember how I made that point a while back how I felt that Rey had no right to take Luke’s lightsaber that he inherited from his father? - I’d completely forgotten that Rey also took the original Jedi texts! So while there are some shades of grey and certain points of view (if you will) that can be debated about the whole saber matter, I think the Jedi texts are pretty much a clear cut 2nd example of Rey’s tendency to just take things that don’t belong to her (ie. stealing). Whatever justifications can be made that do ring true, it doesn’t change the circumstances under which she took things that weren’t hers to take.

She’s just indefinitely borrowing things that would otherwise gather dust.

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NeverarGreat said:

Valheru_84 said:

DominicCobb said:
What I’m getting is, Rey needs to be jailed in IX for theft. Let’s Make Star Wars Pointlessly Pedantic About Possesions and Inheritance! That’s what the series has always needed. Can’t wait for the climactic court case where Kylo Ren claims ownership of the Falcon.

Valheru_84 said:
It is not my intent to be overly literal and logical about it all (it’s just how my thought process works), my initial feeling that Rey didn’t have the right to just take the saber from Luke was just that - a feeling, which contributed to my dislike for the character. It is only in discussing and trying to explain it that I am looking deeper myself and laying out my detailed perspective on why I happen to see it this way, often in response to simplistic replies that seem to brush it aside as nothing of consequence despite it having an impact on the judgement of Rey’s moral fibre (which is why I also tie the matter into her physical abuse of Luke and threatening him with the saber which at this point is not even her’s to use).

Hey Dom…you remember how I made that point a while back how I felt that Rey had no right to take Luke’s lightsaber that he inherited from his father? - I’d completely forgotten that Rey also took the original Jedi texts! So while there are some shades of grey and certain points of view (if you will) that can be debated about the whole saber matter, I think the Jedi texts are pretty much a clear cut 2nd example of Rey’s tendency to just take things that don’t belong to her (ie. stealing). Whatever justifications can be made that do ring true, it doesn’t change the circumstances under which she took things that weren’t hers to take.

She’s just indefinitely borrowing things that would otherwise gather dust.

I’ll remember that for when the authorities ask me about taking some rich guy’s classic supercar that has a layer of dust from never being driven 😉

Btw didn’t realise I’d posted that reply in here, it was meant to be in the TLJ review thread.

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Valheru_84 said:

DominicCobb said:
What I’m getting is, Rey needs to be jailed in IX for theft. Let’s Make Star Wars Pointlessly Pedantic About Possesions and Inheritance! That’s what the series has always needed. Can’t wait for the climactic court case where Kylo Ren claims ownership of the Falcon.

Valheru_84 said:
It is not my intent to be overly literal and logical about it all (it’s just how my thought process works), my initial feeling that Rey didn’t have the right to just take the saber from Luke was just that - a feeling, which contributed to my dislike for the character. It is only in discussing and trying to explain it that I am looking deeper myself and laying out my detailed perspective on why I happen to see it this way, often in response to simplistic replies that seem to brush it aside as nothing of consequence despite it having an impact on the judgement of Rey’s moral fibre (which is why I also tie the matter into her physical abuse of Luke and threatening him with the saber which at this point is not even her’s to use).

Hey Dom…you remember how I made that point a while back how I felt that Rey had no right to take Luke’s lightsaber that he inherited from his father? - I’d completely forgotten that Rey also took the original Jedi texts! So while there are some shades of grey and certain points of view (if you will) that can be debated about the whole saber matter, I think the Jedi texts are pretty much a clear cut 2nd example of Rey’s tendency to just take things that don’t belong to her (ie. stealing). Whatever justifications can be made that do ring true, it doesn’t change the circumstances under which she took things that weren’t hers to take.

Lock her up! Lock her up!
-_-

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Yoda can make freaking lightning strike a tree, so I presume he was cool with her taking the books. At least she didn’t pinch the saber while the original owner was slowly burning to death like that kleptomaniac Obi-Wan. 😉

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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Valheru_84 said:

DominicCobb said:
What I’m getting is, Rey needs to be jailed in IX for theft. Let’s Make Star Wars Pointlessly Pedantic About Possesions and Inheritance! That’s what the series has always needed. Can’t wait for the climactic court case where Kylo Ren claims ownership of the Falcon.

Valheru_84 said:
It is not my intent to be overly literal and logical about it all (it’s just how my thought process works), my initial feeling that Rey didn’t have the right to just take the saber from Luke was just that - a feeling, which contributed to my dislike for the character. It is only in discussing and trying to explain it that I am looking deeper myself and laying out my detailed perspective on why I happen to see it this way, often in response to simplistic replies that seem to brush it aside as nothing of consequence despite it having an impact on the judgement of Rey’s moral fibre (which is why I also tie the matter into her physical abuse of Luke and threatening him with the saber which at this point is not even her’s to use).

Hey Dom…you remember how I made that point a while back how I felt that Rey had no right to take Luke’s lightsaber that he inherited from his father? - I’d completely forgotten that Rey also took the original Jedi texts! So while there are some shades of grey and certain points of view (if you will) that can be debated about the whole saber matter, I think the Jedi texts are pretty much a clear cut 2nd example of Rey’s tendency to just take things that don’t belong to her (ie. stealing). Whatever justifications can be made that do ring true, it doesn’t change the circumstances under which she took things that weren’t hers to take.

I think that Rey took the sacred Jedi texts because, while Luke preserved them, he wasn’t putting any use to them. Rey is still young and has much to learn, despite having more patience than Luke did in the Original Trilogy. Rey may have taken the books, but it isn’t anything bad of what she did. Yoda already knew she had taken them when he struck the the tree on fire.

Noah Lawson

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SilverWook said:

Yoda can make freaking lightning strike a tree, so I presume he was cool with her taking the books.

I don’t understand this logic.

SilverWook said:
At least she didn’t pinch the saber while the original owner was slowly burning to death like that kleptomaniac Obi-Wan. 😉

Context is important. I feel like we’ve already covered this ground the last time we spoke about it.

nl0428 said:
I think that Rey took the sacred Jedi texts because, while Luke preserved them, he wasn’t putting any use to them. Rey is still young and has much to learn, despite having more patience than Luke did in the Original Trilogy.

I don’t doubt this but it still doesn’t change the circumstances. Stealing is stealing, no matter the justification.

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I’m one to talk, I know, but it’s better not to feed the troll.

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Valheru_84 said:
It is not my intent to be overly literal and logical about it all (it’s just how my thought process works), my initial feeling that Rey didn’t have the right to just take the saber from Luke was just that - a feeling, which contributed to my dislike for the character. It is only in discussing and trying to explain it that I am looking deeper myself and laying out my detailed perspective on why I happen to see it this way, often in response to simplistic replies that seem to brush it aside as nothing of consequence despite it having an impact on the judgement of Rey’s moral fibre (which is why I also tie the matter into her physical abuse of Luke and threatening him with the saber which at this point is not even her’s to use).

When exactly did Rey “steal” Luke/Anakin’s lightsaber. It was offered to her by Maz, and she rejected it. It was then given to Finn for a while, and then she picked it up to protect him (and herself) from Kylo. There’s the deleted scene where Maz gave it to Leia, who clearly let Rey keep it as she later traveled to Acho-To to return it to Luke, who promptly threw it away. At that point I’d say she has as much a right to keep it as anyone else.

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If we’re going to beat that dead Taun Taun again, we should take further discussion elsewhere.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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ZkinandBonez said:

Valheru_84 said:
It is not my intent to be overly literal and logical about it all (it’s just how my thought process works), my initial feeling that Rey didn’t have the right to just take the saber from Luke was just that - a feeling, which contributed to my dislike for the character. It is only in discussing and trying to explain it that I am looking deeper myself and laying out my detailed perspective on why I happen to see it this way, often in response to simplistic replies that seem to brush it aside as nothing of consequence despite it having an impact on the judgement of Rey’s moral fibre (which is why I also tie the matter into her physical abuse of Luke and threatening him with the saber which at this point is not even her’s to use).

When exactly did Rey “steal” Luke/Anakin’s lightsaber. It was offered to her by Maz, and she rejected it. It was then given to Finn for a while, and then she picked it up to protect him (and herself) from Kylo. There’s the deleted scene where Maz gave it to Leia, who clearly let Rey keep it as she later traveled to Acho-To to return it to Luke, who promptly threw it away. At that point I’d say she has as much a right to keep it as anyone else.

“Steal” is I agree probably too strong a word. Acquire/keep without consent is more like it but doesn’t help Rey’s image. Regardless of what Maz said and what happened in between then and finding Luke, it’s been returned to it’s rightful owner who at no point actually gives her leave to take it. Just because he throws it away doesn’t automatically mean he’s happy for Rey or anyone else to just take it off the island and keep using it. The fact she wacks him over the head right before threatening him with his own saber that was his father’s before him is just all kinds of wrong. She then proceeds to keep it for herself without so much as a “by your leave” to Luke and also goes and just takes the Jedi texts at some point before flying away.

I’m not the one who wrote the story. Just pointing out what I see as factual wrong doings by Rey which affects her character in a negative way on top of a number of issues I already have with her.

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SilverWook said:

If we’re going to beat that dead Taun Taun again, we should take further discussion elsewhere.

No probs though seeing she still has the saber and I assume the books from which she’s probably now read once and become the mightiest grand master jedi that ever lived, it still seems relevant though I did mean to initially post in the TLJ thread. I’m not really interested in going on about it though, I was just pointing out the “appropriated” Jedi texts to Dom when it clicked earlier tonight for some reason.

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Sigh. I give up on Star Wars as of right now, and hope for the love of good that Benioff and Weiss can do miracles with their upcoming film.

J.J. Abrams re-did A New Hope to critical acclaim because we got fanservice from high and low and kept to a safe formula. Rian Johnson tried to be too bald and ruined storylines and mysteries presented in TFA. And now, these asshats are trying to win back the fanbase by re-introducing Palpatine - completely undermining ROTJ’s ending and even the new trilogy itself, making it clear it can not (and never have) stood on its own legs. Just failure from left to right. We’re all just taught and expected to like these movies now to the point that we fool ourselfs that we still want them. I think, after this one, it will be clear in a year or two how weak this trilogy really was and is (“but man, you haven’t even seen Rise of Palpatine yet” - one film doesn’t make a good trilogy).

Working at a cinema, I don’t have to spend a dime. TFA was cool. TLJ was… weird, but refreshing - but overall a disappointment as you let it sink in. Rise of Disappointment will fly by me, and I’m happy to watch it all end for free. Maybe they can pull of a decent movie at best.

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Anjohan said:

…making it clear it can not (and never have) stood on its own legs.

This is definitely the most disappointing and concerning thing about this Palpatine reveal. I have my problems with TLJ, but it seemed like at the very least Rian Johnson was trying to move the saga away from the more fan-servicy aspects of Star Wars, the story repetition and over-reliance on plot elements from the previous trilogies.

My immediate reaction to Palpatine coming back is not one of excitement. Rather it feels like the worst kind of deja vu. It feels like we’re going in circles. Didn’t we do this already? It feels reductive and only serves to lessen the importance of this new trilogy and the future of Star Wars. The prospect of going on a fresh, new adventure is now gone because Disney can’t help themselves from serving up that familiar dish that they know most people eat. They had some wonderful ingredients to create something new and interesting. But why take the time and energy to do that when we already know that people like and will eat hot dogs?

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Let’s not get ahead of ourselves. Yes, Palpatine bring back is a little lazy/fan-servicey, but him back won’t inherently make the story of TROS not “original” (an overrated concept to begin with). We don’t even know what him being back means or how he’ll factor in.

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DominicCobb said:

Let’s not get ahead of ourselves. Yes, Palpatine bring back is a little lazy/fan-servicey, but him back won’t inherently make the story of TROS not “original” (an overrated concept to begin with). We don’t even know what him being back means or how he’ll factor in.

Yes. maybe we can save our soapbox speeches for after the actual movie is released.