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Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * SPOILER THREAD * — Page 58

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nl0428 said:

RogueLeader said:

Yeah, despite my own gripes with the score, I go back and listen to it a lot this past year, even more than the other scores. I catch my self going back to The Spark and The Last Jedi a lot. Luke emerging from the base and then later when it is revealed he is still on Ach-To are such great moments. I like listening to Ach-To Island, The Supremacy and New Alliance a lot too.

I was a little surprised there wasn’t a Ben/Rey theme. A theme could still show up in the last film, but I imagine it will be some kind of play on Rey and Kylo’s theme, maybe.

It was noted that the first three notes in Rey’s theme are the same as the last three notes in Kylo Ren’s theme. It’s also been compared that they are the same three notes in Anakin and Padmé’s love theme, Across the Stars, but in reverse.

There may be intent behind that first observation. The second one seems purely like a coincidence: there are only so many intervals to work with when you’re creating tonal music.

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pleasehello said:

nl0428 said:

RogueLeader said:

Yeah, despite my own gripes with the score, I go back and listen to it a lot this past year, even more than the other scores. I catch my self going back to The Spark and The Last Jedi a lot. Luke emerging from the base and then later when it is revealed he is still on Ach-To are such great moments. I like listening to Ach-To Island, The Supremacy and New Alliance a lot too.

I was a little surprised there wasn’t a Ben/Rey theme. A theme could still show up in the last film, but I imagine it will be some kind of play on Rey and Kylo’s theme, maybe.

It was noted that the first three notes in Rey’s theme are the same as the last three notes in Kylo Ren’s theme. It’s also been compared that they are the same three notes in Anakin and Padmé’s love theme, Across the Stars, but in reverse.

There may be intent behind that first observation. The second one seems purely like a coincidence: there are only so many intervals to work with when you’re creating tonal music.

Don’t underestimate the musical mastermind that is John Williams!

Noah Lawson

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Sir Ridley said:

I did a little analysis of the TLJ score album and counted how many minutes of old themes are on the album (so it’s not the entire score, but I assume the full score has a similar old/new ratio).

What I found was that there was less than 11 minutes of themes carried over from TFA, and just over 10 minutes of themes from the older movies. I didn’t count the title theme and the start of the end title music that are the same in all movies. That leaves over 1 hour of entirely new music, or about 74%. If the full score has a similar amount there might be about 1 hour and 45 minutes of new music.

I think that’s pretty impressive considering that the score should use old themes for characters and things from earlier movies. Personally I’m a big fan of the TLJ score and the balance between old and new music works for me. I’m very excited to hear the score for IX.

That’s actually really surprising to hear. I’ll have to watch TLJ again, because I could’ve sworn the old themes kept popping up every other time music was played. I’d also love to hear anybody’s thoughts on the main title score actually. The first note doesn’t feel as intense as the rest of the movies, but perhaps that’s more to do with a different orchestra playing than the first six? Or I’m a fool.

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Lesser said:

Sir Ridley said:

I did a little analysis of the TLJ score album and counted how many minutes of old themes are on the album (so it’s not the entire score, but I assume the full score has a similar old/new ratio).

What I found was that there was less than 11 minutes of themes carried over from TFA, and just over 10 minutes of themes from the older movies. I didn’t count the title theme and the start of the end title music that are the same in all movies. That leaves over 1 hour of entirely new music, or about 74%. If the full score has a similar amount there might be about 1 hour and 45 minutes of new music.

I think that’s pretty impressive considering that the score should use old themes for characters and things from earlier movies. Personally I’m a big fan of the TLJ score and the balance between old and new music works for me. I’m very excited to hear the score for IX.

That’s actually really surprising to hear. I’ll have to watch TLJ again, because I could’ve sworn the old themes kept popping up every other time music was played. I’d also love to hear anybody’s thoughts on the main title score actually. The first note doesn’t feel as intense as the rest of the movies, but perhaps that’s more to do with a different orchestra playing than the first six? Or I’m a fool.

I think the old themes do pop up a lot, but you probably pay extra attention when that happens (because you recognize it) and don’t notice the new music in the same way.

About the first note I’ve heard this complaint for the TFA recording. It’s a bit different in every movie (except for the prequels which used the same recording), so I guess it’s a matter of taste which way you prefer it. Here’s a quote from Rian Johnson about that:
“We re-recorded it with John Williams. They re-record it every time they do it. The more interesting thing for me was the mix. Realizing it’s just like mixing a song. Realizing there’s many different ways you can mix that opening fanfare. And if you listen to all the different movies, every single one of them has a slightly different take on the mix of the fanfare. Some are brighter some are warmer. The Force Awakens one has a sharper attack to it. We went for a warmer-type feel.”

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Most of the music in both films just blends together imo. Though a few stick out like Rey’s theme.

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In some ways, the score in The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi are similar (not talking about character themes), but they do have moments that are distinctive to each entry. Whether it’d be the music as Rey slides down the hill on Jakku or when she lifts the rocks with the Force on Crait.

Noah Lawson

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The music in both ST movies has very much been another let down for me. TFA often seemed muted and more in the background, often going almost unnoticed at times which is unusual for Star Wars and TLJ just didn’t seem to have anything great going for it, nothing stood out except the overuse of character leitmotifs whenever they were on screen (at least as far as my memory serves me).

Listening to the actual TFA score on CD is a different story and is a pretty good listen though it’s still my least listened to Star Wars score and I don’t think I’ve listened to it at all since TLJ.

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Sir Ridley said:

Lesser said:

Sir Ridley said:

I did a little analysis of the TLJ score album and counted how many minutes of old themes are on the album (so it’s not the entire score, but I assume the full score has a similar old/new ratio).

What I found was that there was less than 11 minutes of themes carried over from TFA, and just over 10 minutes of themes from the older movies. I didn’t count the title theme and the start of the end title music that are the same in all movies. That leaves over 1 hour of entirely new music, or about 74%. If the full score has a similar amount there might be about 1 hour and 45 minutes of new music.

I think that’s pretty impressive considering that the score should use old themes for characters and things from earlier movies. Personally I’m a big fan of the TLJ score and the balance between old and new music works for me. I’m very excited to hear the score for IX.

That’s actually really surprising to hear. I’ll have to watch TLJ again, because I could’ve sworn the old themes kept popping up every other time music was played. I’d also love to hear anybody’s thoughts on the main title score actually. The first note doesn’t feel as intense as the rest of the movies, but perhaps that’s more to do with a different orchestra playing than the first six? Or I’m a fool.

About the first note I’ve heard this complaint for the TFA recording. It’s a bit different in every movie (except for the prequels which used the same recording), so I guess it’s a matter of taste which way you prefer it. Here’s a quote from Rian Johnson about that:
“We re-recorded it with John Williams. They re-record it every time they do it. The more interesting thing for me was the mix. Realizing it’s just like mixing a song. Realizing there’s many different ways you can mix that opening fanfare. And if you listen to all the different movies, every single one of them has a slightly different take on the mix of the fanfare. Some are brighter some are warmer. The Force Awakens one has a sharper attack to it. We went for a warmer-type feel.”

For TFA and TLJ the opening hit is very weak compared to the other recordings–the trombones are cut out almost completely. I’m not a huge fan of the mixing.

I know Rian Johnson says they re-recorded the fanfare for TLJ and perhaps they did, but it wasn’t used in the movie. The fanfare that appears in TLJ is the exact same one in TFA. I overlaid them one on top of the other and there was no difference whatsoever, which would be impossible if it were a new recording.

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So you think that it is really the sound mix that makes the new scores sound a bit differently?

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 (Edited)

I mean, that’s my inclination. The alternative is that the performance is just weak and I don’t see John Williams allowing that. But if you listen to the opening hit followed by the staccato trombones (just the first few seconds) in one of prequel soundtracks compared to the sequel soundtracks, it’s as if someone took all the attack out of the brass instruments on the latter. They sound muffled almost as if the high-end was cut out. And the trombone staccati notes are barely audible.

If you listen to the two soundtracks one after the other, the difference is night and day. The first time I watched TFA on blu ray, I thought there was something wrong with my sound system.

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I actually never noticed it sounding that way in TFA until I saw TLJ. It just feels very empty to me when the first note hit and I’m not sure why they would go for a “warmer-type feel” especially when the coloring of the movie leans towards green - not a warm color. I hope they go back to the impact it traditionally has for IX.

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The Last Jedi soundtrack isn’t as bombastic as the OT or PT, but it’s really atmospheric and moody.

Rose’s theme is solid and everything from The Battle of Crait to the end is amazing.

What’s the internal temperature of a TaunTaun? Luke warm.

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pleasehello said:

I mean, that’s my inclination. The alternative is that the performance is just weak and I don’t see John Williams allowing that. But if you listen to the opening hit followed by the staccato trombones (just the first few seconds) in one of prequel soundtracks compared to the sequel soundtracks, it’s as if someone took all the attack out of the brass instruments on the latter. They sound muffled almost as if the high-end was cut out. And the trombone staccati notes are barely audible.

If you listen to the two soundtracks one after the other, the difference is night and day. The first time I watched TFA on blu ray, I thought there was something wrong with my sound system.

Hell, I noticed in the theater for TFA and almost got up to complain that there was something wrong with the sound.

Was very disappointed to hear that it was the same for TLJ two years later…

a trolling bantha

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 (Edited)

Yeah I think we talked about that before, it’s really tinny for some reason.

Mavimao said:

The Last Jedi soundtrack isn’t as bombastic as the OT or PT, but it’s really atmospheric and moody.

Rose’s theme is solid and everything from The Battle of Crait to the end is amazing.

The overall number of standout themes was mediocre for TFA but there was some new material at least. TLJ barely changes up what came before. Rey’s theme is pretty good but the tunes for the Resistance, Kylo Ren and Rose are just lacklustre at best. In the original trilogy the variety in each film was incredible (especially ESB which is one of my favourite scores of all time) so I don’t get it. The standout themes in every film since TFA are always the OT music. At the Battle of Crait it’s so dull until TIE Fighter Attack kicks in and the whole sense of action in the scene is immediately boosted.

Yub Nub for life

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Mocata said:

Yeah I think we talked about that before, it’s really tinny for some reason.

Mavimao said:

The Last Jedi soundtrack isn’t as bombastic as the OT or PT, but it’s really atmospheric and moody.

Rose’s theme is solid and everything from The Battle of Crait to the end is amazing.

The overall number of standout themes was mediocre for TFA but there was some new material at least. TLJ barely changes up what came before. Rey’s theme is pretty good but the tunes for the Resistance, Kylo Ren and Rose are just lacklustre at best. In the original trilogy the variety in each film was incredible (especially ESB which is one of my favourite scores of all time) so I don’t get it. The standout themes in every film since TFA are always the OT music. At the Battle of Crait it’s so dull until TIE Fighter Attack kicks in and the whole sense of action in the scene is immediately boosted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8c

Noah Lawson

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Mocata said:

Uhuh. Yeah?

Not everyone was necessarily disappointed with John Williams’ scores for The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi. I still loved his scores for the original and prequel trilogies more, but I still thought his scores for VII and VIII were still great. They were even nominated for Academy Awards.

Noah Lawson

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nl0428 said:

leetwall31 said:
That’s good advice man, to all of us. Personally, I just wish they had made George’s sequel trilogy instead. I don’t like this retreading they’re doing in the new movies. George’s trilogy sounds so crazy and new, so I wish we could’ve had that instead. Then they could’ve done this retreading plot line.

I believe that this is a technique that George Lucas had for the saga that Abrams and Johnson are continuing. Here’s what I mean.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7ZW1gtCljs

Oh I totally agree with the poetry stuff. That was genius. I meant retreading in the sense that the stories similar. I’m fine with things happening in a similar fashion, but not when the exact same story with different characters is being told. That’s just pointless.

I don’t think the same story is being told. I thought The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi felt different. They did follow a similar act structure to the original trilogy in some ways, but I never felt like I was watching the same story all over again.

The Force Awakens feels like classic Star Wars, that’s why we loved it; we had forgotten that feeling. And I still disagree man. Let’s look at the story parallels, maybe you’ll see what I see:

Original Trilogy

  • The good guys are small and weak, the bad guys are powerful and strong
  • Villain is an ex-Jedi who turned bad and murdered the other Jedi
  • The villain’s master is an old, frail and powerful leader
  • Droid has McGuffin file that everyone is after
  • Orphan on desert planet gets swept up on an adventure
  • Character from previous trilogy dies
  • There is a Planet Destroying Weapon that is destroyed
  • Orphan is trained by an eccentric hermit on remote planet who refuses at first
  • The Villain wants the Oprhan to join him
  • Eccentric hermit dies on remote planet
  • The Villain kills his master

Sequel Trilogy

  • The good guys are small and weak, the bad guys are powerful and strong
  • Droid has McGuffin file that everyone is after
  • Villain is an ex-Jedi who turned bad and murdered the other Jedi
  • The villain’s master is an old, frail and powerful leader
  • Orphan on desert planet gets swept up on an adventure
  • Character from previous trilogy dies
  • There is a Planet Destroying Weapon that is destroyed
  • Orphan is trained by an eccentric hermit on remote planet who refuses at first
  • The Villain wants the Oprhan to join him
  • Eccentric hermit dies on remote planet
  • The Villain kills his master

These are major plot points, only differences are in characters, location and time. They are trying to tell us a new story, they’re trying really hard. But it’s not.

I guess you could call me a hipster; I think the prequels are better than the originals, and I think the Beach Boys are better than the Beatles.

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leetwall31 said:

nl0428 said:

leetwall31 said:
That’s good advice man, to all of us. Personally, I just wish they had made George’s sequel trilogy instead. I don’t like this retreading they’re doing in the new movies. George’s trilogy sounds so crazy and new, so I wish we could’ve had that instead. Then they could’ve done this retreading plot line.

I believe that this is a technique that George Lucas had for the saga that Abrams and Johnson are continuing. Here’s what I mean.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7ZW1gtCljs

Oh I totally agree with the poetry stuff. That was genius. I meant retreading in the sense that the stories similar. I’m fine with things happening in a similar fashion, but not when the exact same story with different characters is being told. That’s just pointless.

I don’t think the same story is being told. I thought The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi felt different. They did follow a similar act structure to the original trilogy in some ways, but I never felt like I was watching the same story all over again.

The Force Awakens feels like classic Star Wars, that’s why we loved it; we had forgotten that feeling. And I still disagree man. Let’s look at the story parallels, maybe you’ll see what I see:

Original Trilogy

  • The good guys are small and weak, the bad guys are powerful and strong
  • Villain is an ex-Jedi who turned bad and murdered the other Jedi
  • The villain’s master is an old, frail and powerful leader
  • Droid has McGuffin file that everyone is after
  • Orphan on desert planet gets swept up on an adventure
  • Character from previous trilogy dies
  • There is a Planet Destroying Weapon that is destroyed
  • Orphan is trained by an eccentric hermit on remote planet who refuses at first
  • The Villain wants the Oprhan to join him
  • Eccentric hermit dies on remote planet
  • The Villain kills his master

Sequel Trilogy

  • The good guys are small and weak, the bad guys are powerful and strong
  • Droid has McGuffin file that everyone is after
  • Villain is an ex-Jedi who turned bad and murdered the other Jedi
  • The villain’s master is an old, frail and powerful leader
  • Orphan on desert planet gets swept up on an adventure
  • Character from previous trilogy dies
  • There is a Planet Destroying Weapon that is destroyed
  • Orphan is trained by an eccentric hermit on remote planet who refuses at first
  • The Villain wants the Oprhan to join him
  • Eccentric hermit dies on remote planet
  • The Villain kills his master

These are major plot points, only differences are in characters, location and time. They are trying to tell us a new story, they’re trying really hard. But it’s not.

I understand what you’re trying to say. I really think you should check out Chris Stuckmann’s analysis video. He made it when The Force Awakens was still playing in theaters, but it’s still a very good video. He essentially says nearly everything I have to say. Enjoy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbaliPyihCY

Noah Lawson

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SilverWook said:

This rumor could be a steaming pile of Bantha poodoo?
http://epicstream.com/news/TinyDiapana/Disney-Reportedly-Brought-George-Lucas-To-Fix-Star-Wars-Episode-IX

And ye gods, is there anyplace I can go online where I don’t have to hear people bitching about Star Wars? It wasn’t even a Star Wars chat where I heard about this.

This is one of the funniest things I’ve read in a long time. Disney bringing George in to “polish the film’s script”. Hahahaha!

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Any rumor involving George Lucas being involved within the writing and production is all false. It’s been rumored so many times that he’s coming back to work on a new Star Wars project, but it’s never happened. He’s now retired, he’s sold his property and is enjoying his life with the four billion dollars he made by selling Lucasfilm to Disney. I still think Disney is a great company for Star Wars to be owned by.

Noah Lawson