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Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * SPOILER THREAD * — Page 54

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Valheru_84 said:

nl0428 said:

Valheru_84 said:

^ Sorry but I’m not interested in any theories or reading any books that “explain” things. If it’s not in the movie then it doesn’t form part of my initial understanding, feelings and reaction to it.

It’s about the sequel trilogy.

Hence why I’m not the least bit interested.

Sorry.

Not the least bit interested in anything about the sequel trilogy… but constantly posting in a thread about an upcoming film in said trilogy…

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Oh I’m very interested to see how the train wreck comes to a final rest so I can look at the mangled mess and move on, knowing that it’s finally stopped and I can actually start forgetting about it. Bit hard to be a Star Wars fan at the moment and not see all the usual stuff about the next episode and I guess you could say I have a morbid curiosity.

What I have zero interest in is paying to see IX at the cinemas or reading up on theories and additional content on the ST, especially if it concerns “Reylo”.

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Valheru_84 said:

Oh I’m very interested to see how the train wreck comes to a final rest so I can look at the mangled mess and move on, knowing that it’s finally stopped and I can actually start forgetting about it. Bit hard to be a Star Wars fan at the moment and not see all the usual stuff about the next episode and I guess you could say I have a morbid curiosity.

What I have zero interest in is paying to see IX at the cinemas or reading up on theories and additional content on the ST, especially if it concerns “Reylo”.

I’m sorry you don’t like the sequel trilogy, but I am a fan of the trilogy. If you don’t like The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi, then you don’t need to go see Episode IX then. I hated Michael Bay’s Transformers movies, so I stopped going to see them. The more you watch, the more movies will be made by giving them your money.

Noah Lawson

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Back on Episode IX…
 

A Star Wars Is Born – “Shallow” Parody’…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-Sv6fu-udU (by Nerdist)

‘We’re taking this SHIP to a whole new level in a galaxy far, far away. When the characters of Star Wars meet the emotional medley of “Shallow” from “A Star is Born” we get a glimpse at a star-crossed romance between two rivals. Sit back, grab an ice cold glass of green milk, and enjoy the newest Nerdist Presents music video parody. From the team that brought you “That Spidey Life” and “Young King”.’
 

^ Quite funny in places 😃
 

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

I find that answer vague and unconvincing. Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves?
Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? And say something righteous and hopeful for a change?

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DominicCobb said:

Valheru_84 said:

nl0428 said:

Valheru_84 said:

^ Sorry but I’m not interested in any theories or reading any books that “explain” things. If it’s not in the movie then it doesn’t form part of my initial understanding, feelings and reaction to it.

It’s about the sequel trilogy.

Hence why I’m not the least bit interested.

Sorry.

Not the least bit interested in anything about the sequel trilogy… but constantly posting in a thread about an upcoming film in said trilogy…

^this +1 . We get it ,you don’t like it …these aren’t the droids your looking for …move along …move along …

https://screamsinthevoid.deviantart.com/

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screams in the void said:

DominicCobb said:

Valheru_84 said:

nl0428 said:

Valheru_84 said:

^ Sorry but I’m not interested in any theories or reading any books that “explain” things. If it’s not in the movie then it doesn’t form part of my initial understanding, feelings and reaction to it.

It’s about the sequel trilogy.

Hence why I’m not the least bit interested.

Sorry.

Not the least bit interested in anything about the sequel trilogy… but constantly posting in a thread about an upcoming film in said trilogy…

^this +1 . We get it ,you don’t like it …these aren’t the droids your looking for …move along …move along …

DISNEY/LUCASFILM: You were the target audience! You were supposed to love the trilogy, not hate it! Bring joy to the fanbase, not leave it in hatred! ;P

Noah Lawson

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nl0428 said:

Valheru_84 said:

Oh I’m very interested to see how the train wreck comes to a final rest so I can look at the mangled mess and move on, knowing that it’s finally stopped and I can actually start forgetting about it. Bit hard to be a Star Wars fan at the moment and not see all the usual stuff about the next episode and I guess you could say I have a morbid curiosity.

What I have zero interest in is paying to see IX at the cinemas or reading up on theories and additional content on the ST, especially if it concerns “Reylo”.

I’m sorry you don’t like the sequel trilogy, but I am a fan of the trilogy. If you don’t like The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi, then you don’t need to go see Episode IX then. I hated Michael Bay’s Transformers movies, so I stopped going to see them. The more you watch, the more movies will be made by giving them your money.

No problem, the fact you like it is fine though and all I was saying is that I don’t understand how you expect Kylo and Rey to still get together after that chance was missed in TLJ. Rey would have to deviate massively from her current character arc (if you can call it that) and be ok with all the atrocities and blood on Kylo’s hands.

I did like TFA originally but it required the next movie or two to do a lot of explaining and that simply didn’t happen and as a result TFA becomes a pretty mediocre movie itself. So yeah, I definitely won’t be paying for a ticket to IX as there is literally no point for me.

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 (Edited)

Valheru_84 said:

nl0428 said:

Valheru_84 said:

Oh I’m very interested to see how the train wreck comes to a final rest so I can look at the mangled mess and move on, knowing that it’s finally stopped and I can actually start forgetting about it. Bit hard to be a Star Wars fan at the moment and not see all the usual stuff about the next episode and I guess you could say I have a morbid curiosity.

What I have zero interest in is paying to see IX at the cinemas or reading up on theories and additional content on the ST, especially if it concerns “Reylo”.

I’m sorry you don’t like the sequel trilogy, but I am a fan of the trilogy. If you don’t like The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi, then you don’t need to go see Episode IX then. I hated Michael Bay’s Transformers movies, so I stopped going to see them. The more you watch, the more movies will be made by giving them your money.

No problem, the fact you like it is fine though and all I was saying is that I don’t understand how you expect Kylo and Rey to still get together after that chance was missed in TLJ. Rey would have to deviate massively from her current character arc (if you can call it that) and be ok with all the atrocities and blood on Kylo’s hands.

I did like TFA originally but it required the next movie or two to do a lot of explaining and that simply didn’t happen and as a result TFA becomes a pretty mediocre movie itself. So yeah, I definitely won’t be paying for a ticket to IX as there is literally no point for me.

I’m sorry you feel that way. Maybe if the reviews are strong, it could bring you to the cinema. I was originally not planning on seeing Wonder Woman after how disappointed I was with Batman V Superman and Suicide Squad. However, the word of mouth came out for Wonder Woman, I went out to see it, and I thought it was great.

Noah Lawson

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Valheru_84 said:

Oh I’m very interested to see how the train wreck comes to a final rest so I can look at the mangled mess and move on, knowing that it’s finally stopped and I can actually start forgetting about it. Bit hard to be a Star Wars fan at the moment and not see all the usual stuff about the next episode and I guess you could say I have a morbid curiosity.

What I have zero interest in is paying to see IX at the cinemas or reading up on theories and additional content on the ST, especially if it concerns “Reylo”.

Sorry, couldn’t resist! 😃

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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Well I for one am all for Reylo, and agree entirely with nl0428’s interpretation of the door shutting.

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^ LOL SilverWook XD

The only difference is that I don’t take any enjoyment out of it but definitely a fascination I guess of how from my perspective, Star Wars has gone so wrong from what initially looked like such a promising start to the ST.

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Valheru_84 said:

The only difference is that I don’t take any enjoyment out of it but definitely a fascination I guess of how from my perspective, Star Wars has gone so wrong from what initially looked like such a promising start to the ST.

Fair enough. The ST definitely has parts that could bother some fans. Hopefully the future spin offs and TV shows will have a more unified appeal.

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Zachary VIII said:

Valheru_84 said:

The only difference is that I don’t take any enjoyment out of it but definitely a fascination I guess of how from my perspective, Star Wars has gone so wrong from what initially looked like such a promising start to the ST.

Fair enough. The ST definitely has parts that could bother some fans. Hopefully the future spin offs and TV shows will have a more unified appeal.

The Mandalorian is definitely sounding promising at this point, quite interested to see what direction it goes in and is reportedly much more in the vein of the OT. So far the only Star Wars from the Disney era I continue to like and enjoy is Rogue One so it would be nice to have something else new and exciting to look forward to again.

You might say there are the other new trilogies coming to look forward to as well but you can probably guess my opinion of Rian Johnson and it is yet to be seen if the Game of Thrones writers can come up with anything decent with their writing efforts on post George RR Martin GoT feeling pretty lacking in quality.

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Zachary VIII said:

Valheru_84 said:

The only difference is that I don’t take any enjoyment out of it but definitely a fascination I guess of how from my perspective, Star Wars has gone so wrong from what initially looked like such a promising start to the ST.

Fair enough. The ST definitely has parts that could bother some fans. Hopefully the future spin offs and TV shows will have a more unified appeal.

Probably the opposite, the spin-offs will likely have specific appeal while the future films will be the big tent SW content.

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DominicCobb said:

Zachary VIII said:

Valheru_84 said:

The only difference is that I don’t take any enjoyment out of it but definitely a fascination I guess of how from my perspective, Star Wars has gone so wrong from what initially looked like such a promising start to the ST.

Fair enough. The ST definitely has parts that could bother some fans. Hopefully the future spin offs and TV shows will have a more unified appeal.

Probably the opposite, the spin-offs will likely have specific appeal while the future films will be the big tent SW content.

I understand that this topic is about Episode IX, but I will admit some of my thoughts on Star Wars content. I love the original and sequel trilogies. I liked the prequels when I was a kid, but over time, I’ve begun to have more of a distaste for them, but I don’t hate them or banish them like some do. I still consider them as part of the family. Rogue One was good, but it could’ve been a little better if the characters were developed stronger. Solo was quite dull to me, which was upsetting. I thought Alden Ehrenreich and Donald Glover were great as Han and Lando, but the movie wasn’t all that interesting, nor was the story to me. As much as everyone loves Dave Filoni’s shows, I’m not really a fan of his work. Clone Wars was very hit and miss to me, and Rebels, while I thought it was good, could’ve been much much stronger. Dave Filoni seems like he knows Star Wars well, but I feel like I’m watching someone try to make Star Wars, rather than making Star Wars. And that has nothing to do with the show’s being animated, I LOVE animation, I just don’t think it worked out with what Filoni was doing. However, I really loved the original Clone Wars micro-series. With the sequel trilogy, I felt that Abrams and Johnson knew how to write, direct, and make Star Wars. Filoni’s content just seems watered down in comparison, not necessarily by its target audience, but by its tone and elements.

Noah Lawson

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 (Edited)

nl0428 said:

DominicCobb said:

Zachary VIII said:

Valheru_84 said:

The only difference is that I don’t take any enjoyment out of it but definitely a fascination I guess of how from my perspective, Star Wars has gone so wrong from what initially looked like such a promising start to the ST.

Fair enough. The ST definitely has parts that could bother some fans. Hopefully the future spin offs and TV shows will have a more unified appeal.

Probably the opposite, the spin-offs will likely have specific appeal while the future films will be the big tent SW content.

As much as everyone loves Dave Filoni’s shows, I’m not really a fan of his work. Clone Wars was very hit and miss to me, and Rebels, while I thought it was good, could’ve been much much stronger. Dave Filoni seems like he knows Star Wars well, but I feel like I’m watching someone try to make Star Wars, rather than making Star Wars. And that has nothing to do with the show’s being animated, I LOVE animation, I just don’t think it worked out with what Filoni was doing. However, I really loved the original Clone Wars micro-series. With the sequel trilogy, I felt that Abrams and Johnson knew how to write, direct, and make Star Wars. Filoni’s content just seems watered down in comparison, not necessarily by its target audience, but by its tone and elements.

I like TCW, but it feels like a simplified version of the Clone Wars Multimedia Project. And there’s certain aspects like Anakin’s personality that make the series feel like it’s in a completely different universe from the films. Tone wise, Dark Horse’s Republic comics feel much closer to the movies and larger Legends timeline. Rebel’s feels like a downgrade from TCW and Resistance is even worse.

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Zachary VIII said:

nl0428 said:

DominicCobb said:

Zachary VIII said:

Valheru_84 said:

The only difference is that I don’t take any enjoyment out of it but definitely a fascination I guess of how from my perspective, Star Wars has gone so wrong from what initially looked like such a promising start to the ST.

Fair enough. The ST definitely has parts that could bother some fans. Hopefully the future spin offs and TV shows will have a more unified appeal.

Probably the opposite, the spin-offs will likely have specific appeal while the future films will be the big tent SW content.

As much as everyone loves Dave Filoni’s shows, I’m not really a fan of his work. Clone Wars was very hit and miss to me, and Rebels, while I thought it was good, could’ve been much much stronger. Dave Filoni seems like he knows Star Wars well, but I feel like I’m watching someone try to make Star Wars, rather than making Star Wars. And that has nothing to do with the show’s being animated, I LOVE animation, I just don’t think it worked out with what Filoni was doing. However, I really loved the original Clone Wars micro-series. With the sequel trilogy, I felt that Abrams and Johnson knew how to write, direct, and make Star Wars. Filoni’s content just seems watered down in comparison, not necessarily by its target audience, but by its tone and elements.

I like TCW, but it feels like a simplified version of the Clone Wars Multimedia Project. And there’s certain aspects like Anakin’s personality that make the series feel like it’s in a completely different universe from the films. Tone wise, Dark Horse’s Republic comics feel much closer to the movies and larger Legends timeline. Rebel’s feels like a downgrade from TCW and Resistance is even worse.

I agree with you on how Anakin was portrayed in the show. Much better than what we got from him in the prequel trilogy, but that’s for another topic. I was just sharing my personal thoughts on popular Star Wars content since I’m sometimes looked at strangely for liking things about the sequel trilogy.

Noah Lawson

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I think it’s strange they treated the anthologies as “safe films” while “experimenting” with the saga films.

Lucasfilm limited Gareth Edwards because they didn’t like his direction. And yet most fans applaud RO’s darker side and wanted more.

Lucasfilm fires Lord and Miller for being too wacky. While I see their reasoning, after watching Spiderverse and LEGO Movie 2 I firmly believe these two are geniuses. Everything they touch sounds horrible and ends up perfect. What we got instead was a mediocre very safe movie- which is a shame.

But with TLJ, Kathleen uncharacteristically have Rian full control. I’m not going to debate whether that was a good or bad idea… but of the Disney movies I think TLJ is the most a director’s vision.

And naturally, a single vision is divisive… whereas studio input is not. I think they should have experimented more with the spinoffs instead of saga. To me it’s the equivalent of playing Guardians of the Galaxy safe but Avengers all “out there”.

Maul- A Star Wars Story

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Valheru_84 said:

nl0428 said:

Valheru_84 said:

Oh I’m very interested to see how the train wreck comes to a final rest so I can look at the mangled mess and move on, knowing that it’s finally stopped and I can actually start forgetting about it. Bit hard to be a Star Wars fan at the moment and not see all the usual stuff about the next episode and I guess you could say I have a morbid curiosity.

What I have zero interest in is paying to see IX at the cinemas or reading up on theories and additional content on the ST, especially if it concerns “Reylo”.

I’m sorry you don’t like the sequel trilogy, but I am a fan of the trilogy. If you don’t like The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi, then you don’t need to go see Episode IX then. I hated Michael Bay’s Transformers movies, so I stopped going to see them. The more you watch, the more movies will be made by giving them your money.

No problem, the fact you like it is fine though and all I was saying is that I don’t understand how you expect Kylo and Rey to still get together after that chance was missed in TLJ. Rey would have to deviate massively from her current character arc (if you can call it that) and be ok with all the atrocities and blood on Kylo’s hands.

I did like TFA originally but it required the next movie or two to do a lot of explaining and that simply didn’t happen and as a result TFA becomes a pretty mediocre movie itself. So yeah, I definitely won’t be paying for a ticket to IX as there is literally no point for me.

With a somewhat heavy heart I absolutely agree with this. Despite some silly plot contrivances and the conga-line of Death Stars, I really liked TFA - but this was absolutely riding on the notion that JJ had answers to all the implied questions (which in turn would connect the new saga to the OT in a profound way). Now the thing looks rather vacuous. I’m genuinely curious about IX but not for the right reasons.

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OutboundFlight said:

I think it’s strange they treated the anthologies as “safe films” while “experimenting” with the saga films.

Personally, I don’t think they were envisioned that way, and I think ultimately the reasoning is probably that saga films are sure bets, while spin-offs are somewhat risky propositions to begin with, so they have to be careful not to limit too much the appeal of the latter.

Lucasfilm limited Gareth Edwards because they didn’t like his direction. And yet most fans applaud RO’s darker side and wanted more.

We don’t have the full picture, but I haven’t read anything that would suggest that “limiting Edwards because they didn’t like his direction” is true. That’s merely fan speculation.

Lucasfilm fires Lord and Miller for being too wacky. While I see their reasoning, after watching Spiderverse and LEGO Movie 2 I firmly believe these two are geniuses. Everything they touch sounds horrible and ends up perfect. What we got instead was a mediocre very safe movie- which is a shame.

Again, no full picture. While that reason is probably true, we need to remember that A) Lord/Miller did not direct either Spider-Verse or Lego Movie 2, and B) that a lot about what we got in Solo would have been the same even if they had indeed brought it to the finish line.

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DominicCobb said:

OutboundFlight said:

I think it’s strange they treated the anthologies as “safe films” while “experimenting” with the saga films.

Personally, I don’t think they were envisioned that way, and I think ultimately the reasoning is probably that saga films are sure bets, while spin-offs are somewhat risky propositions to begin with, so they have to be careful not to limit too much the appeal of the latter.

Lucasfilm limited Gareth Edwards because they didn’t like his direction. And yet most fans applaud RO’s darker side and wanted more.

We don’t have the full picture, but I haven’t read anything that would suggest that “limiting Edwards because they didn’t like his direction” is true. That’s merely fan speculation.

Lucasfilm fires Lord and Miller for being too wacky. While I see their reasoning, after watching Spiderverse and LEGO Movie 2 I firmly believe these two are geniuses. Everything they touch sounds horrible and ends up perfect. What we got instead was a mediocre very safe movie- which is a shame.

Again, no full picture. While that reason is probably true, we need to remember that A) Lord/Miller did not direct either Spider-Verse or Lego Movie 2, and B) that a lot about what we got in Solo would have been the same even if they had indeed brought it to the finish line.

Both Rogue One and Solo have had extensive reshoots. The Last Jedi… all Kennedy kept saying was how much she likes working with Rian, how good his script and story is, how they are going to give him an entire trilogy before the movie has even been received.

To say they were confident is an understatement… there is a clear difference between the productions of these movies.

Maul- A Star Wars Story

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DominicCobb said:
B) that a lot about what we got in Solo would have been the same even if they had indeed brought it to the finish line.

I don’t think that would have been the case as Ron Howard reportedly re-shot 70% of the movie and I imagine the 30% kept from L&M was probably edited quite differently that they would have envisioned.

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 (Edited)

OutboundFlight said:

DominicCobb said:

OutboundFlight said:

I think it’s strange they treated the anthologies as “safe films” while “experimenting” with the saga films.

Personally, I don’t think they were envisioned that way, and I think ultimately the reasoning is probably that saga films are sure bets, while spin-offs are somewhat risky propositions to begin with, so they have to be careful not to limit too much the appeal of the latter.

Lucasfilm limited Gareth Edwards because they didn’t like his direction. And yet most fans applaud RO’s darker side and wanted more.

We don’t have the full picture, but I haven’t read anything that would suggest that “limiting Edwards because they didn’t like his direction” is true. That’s merely fan speculation.

Lucasfilm fires Lord and Miller for being too wacky. While I see their reasoning, after watching Spiderverse and LEGO Movie 2 I firmly believe these two are geniuses. Everything they touch sounds horrible and ends up perfect. What we got instead was a mediocre very safe movie- which is a shame.

Again, no full picture. While that reason is probably true, we need to remember that A) Lord/Miller did not direct either Spider-Verse or Lego Movie 2, and B) that a lot about what we got in Solo would have been the same even if they had indeed brought it to the finish line.

Both Rogue One and Solo have had extensive reshoots. The Last Jedi… all Kennedy kept saying was how much she likes working with Rian, how good his script and story is, how they are going to give him an entire trilogy before the movie has even been received.

To say they were confident is an understatement… there is a clear difference between the productions of these movies.

I never said there wasn’t a difference. In fact I cut out that part of your post because it was irrelevant to what I was talking about (which is simply that your assessment of the RO/Solo situations are off).

In my mind, the more accurate comparison to Rogue One is TFA. Both started production with scripts that weren’t fully there yet (because they needed to hit a release date), and both continued to be rewritten after production and thus needed extensive reshoots (RO moreso, of course). Biggest difference being that JJ and Kasdan did the rewriting on TFA with JJ directing, while on RO Tony Gilroy was brought in for the rewrite and then directed the reshoots with Edwards.

Solo is a different situation because apparently the problem wasn’t the script (in LFL’s mind), it was that Lord/Miller weren’t following it closely enough.

With TLJ, Rian had a lot of time to get the script right before production, so filming went much more smoothly, with only incredibly minor reshoots necessary (i.e. the usual way it’s supposed to work).

The “uncharacteristically giving full control” is just the wrong way of looking at it. JJ had “full control” on TFA. Edwards had “full control” before they realized they were in a rough spot. Lord and Miller had “full control” before LFL realized their direction was not what they wanted.

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Valheru_84 said:

DominicCobb said:
B) that a lot about what we got in Solo would have been the same even if they had indeed brought it to the finish line.

I don’t think that would have been the case as Ron Howard reportedly re-shot 70% of the movie and I imagine the 30% kept from L&M was probably edited quite differently that they would have envisioned.

There’s more to a film that just that. Understand that the entirety of preproduction was done by Lord/Miller. So just about the entire look of the film is L/M (cinematography, art direction, costumes, locations, much of the FX work and sequences). This also means they had a good deal of say in the development of the script (though if rumors are to be believed their improvisational straying from the script during filming was an issue). All that on top of the 30% L/M shot. So really the main thing that would have been different is the tone - of the some of the performances and editing (and staging). I personally believe this constitutes a significant difference but the truth is that a lot of people would have generally felt the same way about the film, either way.

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 (Edited)

I view the ST thusfar as a somewhat failed experiment, not unlike the PT. In my view the OT is a self-contained story with a clear beginning, middle and end, with clear character arcs. That story has gotten lost somewhat with the addition of the PT, and ST. Both the PT and ST are superfluous imo, and cannot stand on their own. They both add something to the overall narrative, and lore, but at a hefty price. To me the overall narrative of the six part “tragedy of Anakin Skywalker” is significantly weaker than the three part “adventures of Luke Skywalker”, and the thusfar eight part “Skywalker saga” is weaker still. However, in the case of the PT, aside from the poor execution of many elements, the faults were built in from the get go, where the story’s outcome was a foregone conclusion, and it’s self-referential nature part of it’s DNA. It was therefore self-evident that story choices in the PT, might clash with the previously established self-contained story of the OT. It might have been better to have the PT be set in a much earlier time, or an earlier conflict to provide more of a disconnect between the PT and OT timelines, thus ensuring the OT’s narrative is not significantly impacted by the addition of episodes 1 to 3.

With the ST however the creators were free to forge their own path, to create new settings, new aesthetics, and a new conflict to drive the story forward. In my view this did not happen. The ST and Disney’s additions to the franchise in general have been self-referential to a fault, whether it’s by copying the OT’s settings, aesthetic, and general plot, or whether it is by using the OT’s story threads, and set pieces to misdirect, and subvert expectations, the ST at its core thusfar has failed to provide us with a new setting, and new story. It’s the current generation’s updated and modernized OT, where history seems destined to repeat itself ad nauseum:

The big question for me will be, whether episode IX can break through this cycle? If not, I fear for the future of the franchise, where in a worst case scenario Disney Star Wars will forever be a cover band playing Lucas’ greatest hits, changing the order of the verses with some newly updated (and in some cases inappropriate) arrangements, rather than to take Lucas’ style of music, and create some genuinely new songs.