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Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * SPOILER THREAD * — Page 125

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Ironically, if a “strong female agenda” was a strong initiative, I fail to see it beyond TFA. Luke somehow manages to have more of an “arc” in TLJ than Rey did. Rose seems more fixated on Finn, romantically, than carrying on the legacy of her dead sister. Leia is just kinda there, and Luke is the one that inspires hope/gives reassurance.
There’s Holdo but she’s… Not developed and really the only character that felt like a half-baked attempt at the finger-wagging feminist.
The only thing the new films end up doing is giving these female characters weapons/fighting skills in order to serve lip-service that women can throw punches, but without much emotional substance. Less proactive and more… Reyactive in their respective stories.

On top of that, I’m not sure what to expect besides a mere story about Rey resisting the darkside to defeat Palpatine. Wooo…?

The Hope Awakens

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TavorX said:

Ironically, if a “strong female agenda” was a strong initiative, I fail to see it beyond TFA. Luke somehow manages to have more of an “arc” in TLJ than Rey did. Rose seems more fixated on Finn, romantically, than carrying on the legacy of her dead sister. Leia is just kinda there, and Luke is the one that inspires hope/gives reassurance.
There’s Holdo but she’s… Not developed and really the only character that felt like a half-baked attempt at the finger-wagging feminist.
The only thing the new films end up doing is giving these female characters weapons/fighting skills in order to serve lip-service that women can throw punches, but without much emotional substance. Less proactive and more… Reyactive in their respective stories.

On top of that, I’m not sure what to expect besides a mere story about Rey resisting the darkside to defeat Palpatine. Wooo…?

In the immortal words of RedLetterMedia: “Eat the multi-billion dollar corporate slop and pretend its social justice, you weirdos.”

TRANSMODERNISM > POSTMODERNISM > MODERNISM > PREMODERNISM

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While there are plenty of female fans of the female characters in the Sequel Trilogy, I will say that I think it would have been a great idea for George and Kathleen to have hired a female writer to help write TFA. Since even George had planned for the central character to be a girl, I think it would have made a lot of sense to allow a female writer to give her take on the story (although I imagine women at Lucasfilm like Kennedy and Kiri Hart did give their perspective).

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mykyta-R4 said:

FreezingTNT2 said:

mykyta-R4 said:

Star Wars: The Rise Of Skywalker | “Celebrate” TV Spot’:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlb0aUZKQpk

^ at official Star Wars youtube channel
&nsp;

Has a image of Leia holding a lightsabre, perhaps ready to give to Rey?

Oh no…

Sorry, I do not understand.

(English is not my first language. What am I looking for?)

A Reddit user has leaked the entire plot, and the plot itself sounds extremely horrible.

Adywan’s Star Wars Revisited edits are to Blade Runner: The Final Cut as the original theatrical releases of the original trilogy are to the original version of Blade Runner.

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From a certain point of view. I honestly really like what I’ve seen in the leaks so far and I cannot wait to see the movie opening night.

she/her

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FreezingTNT2 said:

mykyta-R4 said:

FreezingTNT2 said:

mykyta-R4 said:

Star Wars: The Rise Of Skywalker | “Celebrate” TV Spot’:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlb0aUZKQpk

^ at official Star Wars youtube channel
&nsp;

Has a image of Leia holding a lightsabre, perhaps ready to give to Rey?

Oh no…

Sorry, I do not understand.

(English is not my first language. What am I looking for?)

A Reddit user has leaked the entire plot, and the plot itself sounds extremely horrible.

Oh good. As long as it was “A Reddit user” we can be sure it’s good intel.

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Oh my. Mike Zeroh is having a cow. He is making up stuff left and right. His latest claims is that Lucas wrote and directed scenes for the film that have now been cut. Fun to hear the crap he comes up with, but he is deranged.

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He’s SuperShadow in heat.

PM me for links to my edits; apparently, some feel shy about this.

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pleasehello said:

FreezingTNT2 said:

mykyta-R4 said:

FreezingTNT2 said:

mykyta-R4 said:

Star Wars: The Rise Of Skywalker | “Celebrate” TV Spot’:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlb0aUZKQpk

^ at official Star Wars youtube channel
&nsp;

Has a image of Leia holding a lightsabre, perhaps ready to give to Rey?

Oh no…

Sorry, I do not understand.

(English is not my first language. What am I looking for?)

A Reddit user has leaked the entire plot, and the plot itself sounds extremely horrible.

Oh good. As long as it was “A Reddit user” we can be sure it’s good intel.

Most of the new footage post-leaks match up really well with them. For example, Palpatine is in the flesh, and Rey is on Ahch-To looking at Kylo’s now-destroyed ship. Oh, and don’t forget the C-3PO “I’m taking one last look at my friends!” scene.

snooker said:

From a certain point of view. I honestly really like what I’ve seen in the leaks so far and I cannot wait to see the movie opening night.

Yet the film has all the Skywalkers killed off and the descendant of Space Hitler™ (whose return ruins the meaning of Anakin’s sacrifice, by the way) taking on the surname of Skywalker at the end. Also, General Hux is redeemed (which ruins his entire character even more), Anakin’s lightsaber and Kylo’s helmet are fixed (which ruins the meanings of their destructions in The Last Jedi), there’s the “fake-out death” cliché, there’s a character who only exists just for a reveal that she is Lando’s long-lost daughter, etc.

Adywan’s Star Wars Revisited edits are to Blade Runner: The Final Cut as the original theatrical releases of the original trilogy are to the original version of Blade Runner.

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FreezingTNT2 said:

Yet the film has all the Skywalkers killed off and the descendant of Space Hitler™ (whose return ruins the meaning of Anakin’s sacrifice, by the way) taking on the surname of Skywalker at the end. Also, General Hux is redeemed (which ruins his entire character even more), Anakin’s lightsaber and Kylo’s helmet are fixed (which ruins the meanings of their destructions in The Last Jedi), there’s the “fake-out death” cliché, there’s a character who only exists just for a reveal that she is Lando’s long-lost daughter, etc.

Well, Leia dying is probably going to be the biggest missed opportunity of this film, but I don’t know how that’s a valid criticism considering real life events. I really wish we could have seen the film as it was originally written with her expanded role in it. It would have made such a nice bookend to this sequel trilogy.

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yotsuya said:

Oh my. Mike Zeroh is having a cow. He is making up stuff left and right. His latest claims is that Lucas wrote and directed scenes for the film that have now been cut. Fun to hear the crap he comes up with, but he is deranged.

Hal 9000 said:

He’s SuperShadow in heat.

So that explains why people still watch his videos. Not for information, but entertainment.

TRANSMODERNISM > POSTMODERNISM > MODERNISM > PREMODERNISM

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pleasehello said:

FreezingTNT2 said:

Yet the film has all the Skywalkers killed off and the descendant of Space Hitler™ (whose return ruins the meaning of Anakin’s sacrifice, by the way) taking on the surname of Skywalker at the end. Also, General Hux is redeemed (which ruins his entire character even more), Anakin’s lightsaber and Kylo’s helmet are fixed (which ruins the meanings of their destructions in The Last Jedi), there’s the “fake-out death” cliché, there’s a character who only exists just for a reveal that she is Lando’s long-lost daughter, etc.

Well, Leia dying is probably going to be the biggest missed opportunity of this film, but I don’t know how that’s a valid criticism considering real life events.

Perhaps once Carrie Fisher passed, the powers-that-be should’ve just, y’know, re-edited TLJ so that Leia was the one who died and Luke survived.

TRANSMODERNISM > POSTMODERNISM > MODERNISM > PREMODERNISM

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I don’t understand why Rey being the hidden/lost daughter of a Palpatine is so sacrilegous when Luke was the hidden/lost son of Darth Vader.

What is Star Wars if not the story of love being stronger than hate, even (especially) when that hate is coming from your own family?

Why wouldn’t a lost Palpatine meet Skywalkers and decide love is so much stronger? What’s out of bounds about that?

edit: My understanding re: “the original” version of the Trevorrow story, before it got canceled and Abrams was brought in, is that Leia still died in the movie, and her role wasn’t that big. Trying to remember where I read that, though.

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Maybe people are just sick and tired of universe shrinkage.

TRANSMODERNISM > POSTMODERNISM > MODERNISM > PREMODERNISM

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I highly doubt these leaks are going to be true at all, they just sound so… fan-ficky

Green is not a creative color

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Imagine how much impactful if it were revealed that all along, Rey was indeed a nobody. Hm, but we already understood this in TLJ, you say. Yes, but in a ‘shocking twist’, it turns out Rey felt that “awakening” of the Force, reverberating from Luke like a unconscious cry for help. Faint, but strong enough for the isolated Rey on Jakku to have some unknown divine energy compel her on a journey. Luke didn’t really intend to call-out to anyone nor expect anyone to answer his SOS. But yet the Force weaved together a string of interactions. Destiny.
Rey comes to a new understanding. She doesn’t need to come from some royal bloodline. Her parents didn’t need to be big names in the galaxy. She herself can be something from nothing. All her psychological misgivings from earlier was a reaction to not believing she had any value due to how she grew up and the story/myths surrounding the epic tales of the past.
Palpatine simply having any familiar ties sounds like something brought out of left field. If it was perhaps hinted at here and there in any of the past two films, it wouldn’t so damn weird. Plus, there’s even less buildup of any satisfaction of Rey confronting Palpatine like there is going from Luke confronting Vader. Nothing personal about it. Rey’s fear was being alone in the galaxy, not knowing her parents. Nowhere in these films was she afraid of Palpatine.

The Hope Awakens

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The most impactful reveal in all of Star Wars history (and honestly, film history) was pretty much pulled directly out of Lucas’ ass VERY late in the game on the second movie alone. It turned his trilogy’s hero into the son of a genocidal fascist, and the most direct representation of evil in action up to that point.

Describing that story as a “relationship” developed over three movies is mostly untrue. There isn’t a relationship AT ALL for most of the first two movies. You only find out there’s a legitimate connection deeper than “You killed my father prepare to die” at the very end of the second movie. The third movie is the one that has to actually develop that relationship into something, and it’s arguable how well that was done. The heroic moment on Vader’s part carries a LOT of that weight.

“Universe shrinkage” ceased being a problem that was ever going to have a solution back in 1999. It’s been 20 years.

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dgraham414 said:

I highly doubt these leaks are going to be true at all, they just sound so… fan-ficky

The same could’ve been said for TFA.

TRANSMODERNISM > POSTMODERNISM > MODERNISM > PREMODERNISM

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Broom Kid said:

Describing that story as a “relationship” developed over three movies is mostly untrue.

I see it this way:
ANH: Vader (together with Tarkin) is the villain who killed Luke’s father and his mentor.
TESB: Vader captures and tortures Luke’s friends to get him and later reveals to be his own father.
ROTJ: Luke is said to defeat Vader, yet their conflict relationship brings them together and overthrow his master.
To me, it’s all about their relationship, one way or another.

The Original Trilogy’s Timeline Reconstruction: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Implied-starting-date-of-the-Empire-from-OT-dialogue/post/786201/#TopicPost786201

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Well put! Completely agree, the dynamics of the characters were there and even just the emotional relationship was established in the first movie. Whereas in the Palpatine instance I think it feels more shoed in by having two characters who have no prior involvement between each other and trying to substitute that gap with the family connection rather than a development over the last two films.

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John Doom said:

I see it this way:
ANH: Vader (together with Tarkin) is the villain who killed Luke’s father and his mentor.
TESB: Vader captures and tortures Luke’s friends to get him and later reveals to be his own father.
ROTJ: Luke is said to defeat Vader, yet their conflict relationship brings them together and overthrow his master.
To me, it’s all about their relationship, one way or another.

Those first two examples aren’t really a relationship. There’s no real back and forth. They don’t interact directly at all in the first movie, only briefly interact (albeit dramatically) in the last act of the second movie, and Luke, it can be argued, doesn’t really know WHO that guy was that killed Ben by the end of Star Wars.

The third movie is where any actual relationship really happens, has an arc, and resolves. The very last 20 minutes of the second movie sets up a relationship that COULD happen. But again - you can’t really describe the first 2/3rds of Empire as a “relationship.” They don’t interact. Luke doesn’t even know who Vader IS.

And again - Vader being Luke’s father was never any part of a plan. It was introduced very late in the game and almost specifically to deploy a cliffhanger so out-of-nowhere that audiences would feel compelled to see the third movie to see how that resolved.

Spoilers for new Star Wars movies are always pretty revealing in how so much of what we enjoy about Star Wars are things we enjoy because we only ever saw the final product sans any “discourse” that consistently surrounded all aspects of production. Things we take for granted as great storytelling are often taken as such because we hadn’t yet infected ourselves with a veritable rulebook of mythology that we can’t wait to break out whenever we hear about stories that we haven’t seen yet, to pre-emptively show how deeply in violation they are.