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Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * SPOILER THREAD * — Page 114

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SilverWook said:

But is it in the same system as Endor? How far could that wreckage travel in three decades?

It doesn’t say yet, though in the old canon Endor (the planet) had 9 moons (incl. Endor the moon) so it could be one of them. Or alternatively it could be a different planet in the same system. I’m not very knowledgeable in physics (and SW isn’t exactly known for being scientifically accurate) but I’d imagine something propelled by the force of the DS II explosion should be able to travel to another planet in the same solar system in 30 years?

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SilverWook said:

But is it in the same system as Endor? How far could that wreckage travel in three decades?

Are you implying that J.J. Abrams doesn’t know how space works? How dare you, sir.

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I wonder if this will be brought up in the movie?

If definitely add a whole new layer to the Knights of Ren than what I think most people assumed about them.

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ZkinandBonez said:

The general plot to Avengers: Endgame leaked before the movie was released and it was both dismissed as being too ridiculous to be true, while others felt that if the leaks were true it would be a terrible movie. The leaks did turn out to be pretty accurate overall. yet now Endgame is considered one of the best films in the MCU. I think most films would/could sound pretty boring and/or strange when all you have are simple scene summaries without any of the dialogue, performances, music, cinematography, etc. to make them engaging. Plus, the people who leaks movie plots don’t usually have the full scripts at hand, but have found ways to “peak” into the production, and that’s definitely bound to strip away a lot of nuances and important details.

I don’t think that’s to the credit of the film, though. What people were criticising (namely Cap’s ending) was accurate to what happened in the film.

I read the leaked Last Jedi synopsis and was very disappointed, but when I saw it executed on screen I was relieved that at least what was written was carried out to the best of the production’s ability. The operative factor on my experience, however, was that my disappointment for the plot was already out of the way, and it was only that I was braced ahead of time that my moviegoing experience wasn’t as negative as it could have been.

Seeking only the most natural looking colors for Star Wars '77

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SilverWook said:

But is it in the same system as Endor? How far could that wreckage travel in three decades?

Remember, Endor is a gas giant. It has nine moons.

Some of the DS2 debris drifted to this moon which is supposedly near the forest moon.

It is called Kef Bir as ZkinandBonez said. It apparently has oceans.

mykyta-R4 said:

Is this image confirmed as being The Ghost?

Confirmed? No.

But it is.

“Anakin had those qualities so rarely seen, exuding an unmistakable confidence and yet still able to touch one’s heart in simply knowing how he was so flawed… wounded.”

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I am kind of surprised about the Palpatine talk here.

Yes, he is back… and he somehow still has his physical body despite what happened in ROTJ.

This is one of the big reveals upsetting the fans right now. This and one other thing related to Palpatine.

Also, the spoiler rumor discussing how this could be states that it is either not explained in the film or the explanation is ambiguous at best.

But I don’t see how Palpatine being back can even be a question at this point as he clearly has his body in the trailer at the 54 second mark and the 1 minute; 58 second mark.

Abrams isn’t exactly hiding it. McDiarmid’s name is on the poster.

A picture that leaked on Thursday which Disney forced to be taken down really puts all the speculation to rest.

“Anakin had those qualities so rarely seen, exuding an unmistakable confidence and yet still able to touch one’s heart in simply knowing how he was so flawed… wounded.”

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I think Hal and I both have expressed some concern about it.

I know early on there was a lot of speculation regarding who Matt Smith was/is going to play, because it seemed he was in the movie, then he wasn’t. He still might be, but maybe it is still heavily guarded.

I know there were rumors that he might’ve played a young, rejuvenated Palpatine. I don’t think I’m the only one that has had this theory, but I think it is possible that in an earlier version of the film, Matt Smith played a Sith acolyte that allowed the spirit of Palpatine to possess him, and this would’ve been the person Rey and Kylo would’ve fought in the climax of the film. Maybe we would’ve seen McDiarmid briefly, but only as a spirit that was attached to some kind of object or phylactery, possibly Vader’s helmet. But after the warm reception McDiarmid received at Celebration, they might’ve have changed that to give Ian more screen time, and thus now he appears physically throughout the whole film without a satisfying explanation for those of us who care to know how.

This might be a stretch, but I don’t think it is impossible either. Alternatively, maybe Palpatine was only in physical form, and Matt Smith just played his rejuvenated self, but that was changed in reshoots for the reasons stated above.

I would have preferred the Sith spirit angle, because at least that makes some sense. Hell, at this point I wouldn’t be too upset if they went full-on Dark Empire and said it was a clone vessel. I just don’t understand how Palpatine could have physically survived being thrown down a reactor shaft and then the Death Star’s destruction.

Another possibility (that I’m 90% sure wouldn’t be explained in the film itself) could be that Palpatine was somehow saved by someone who was able to pull him into the World Between Worlds that Rebels introduced. Ahsoka was saved by Ezra in a similar manner, so it’s possible the same thing happened to Palpatine, and since then he has been in hiding in the Unknown Regions, becoming older and weaker, but biding his time for the right moment to return. It feels pretty convoluted to me, but to not even give a semblance of an explanation in the film would be pretty head-scratching to me.

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I agree.

I wasn’t against Palpatine if it could be done in a way that well thought out/believable.

The way it appears to be raises much concern.

And the Rey aspect just makes it worse.

The way to do it was having Palpatine be a disembodied spirit trapped in some Sith artifact… or holocron.

Then you have Snoke or whomever working these past three decades to help free/release Palpatine and get him a body - either dark side Force rejuvenation or alternate body possession.

And you would still need to bring back Anakin in some capacity.

Hayden. Force ghost. Participation in Palpatine’s eventual destruction.

If not, then it is a total insult to Lucas and the Anakin Skywalker character.

“Anakin had those qualities so rarely seen, exuding an unmistakable confidence and yet still able to touch one’s heart in simply knowing how he was so flawed… wounded.”

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I am feeling cautiously pessimistic about this.

PM me for links to my edits; apparently, some feel shy about this.

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Darth Hade said:
But I don’t see how Palpatine being back can even be a question at this point as he clearly has his body in the trailer at the 54 second mark and the 1 minute; 58 second mark.

Maybe I’m just wearing a helmet with my blast shield down, but where is his body at the 54 sec mark? I only see his throne.

Regarding the general Palpatine talk, I also think RogueLeader’s take on why there’s more, supposed, physical shots of Palpatine makes sense.

But I still don’t think there’s concrete solidification that he is returning in the flesh, for the present timeline of events that will happen in the film. Sure yes there is… what we assume to be him floating with Rey nearby, but we all know what trickery these trailers can show. We assume it’s Palpatine… but if it really was, and the trailer knows that we know… wouldn’t the trailer show his face? Instead, we’re being shown a small angle of some dark hooded figure. Must be hiding something less obvious than what we think who it is, maybe.

And who knows, maybe they did shoot more scenes with Ian. It could be flashback kind of story stuff; that Sithy throne could be from ancient times. It couldn’t be on Endor or the destroyed ruins of the Death Star II, or any other random Imperial ship. I mean, it could… but it looks less likely to be tied to any of those locations. More so, like I said, attached to a flashback/back story to Palpatine/Sith stuff, y’know?

The Hope Awakens

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If Palpatine found a new body not long after ROTJ, he’s had plenty of time to get old and decrepit again.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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Yeah, I think one of the most common hopes I see people have is that Anakin’s Force ghost will show up. I know some people wouldn’t want that, but I think if Anakin, as a Force ghost, somehow took part in purging the last remnants of Sidious from the galaxy, it would help keep that prophecy/story element from George in tact.

It would actually make a lot of sense. If Sidious was in a corporeal form, and can’t physically be destroyed, it would present a great challenge for Rey, whose physicality is one of her strengths. If she was shown to struggle to tap into her spiritual side throughout the whole movie, and then at the climax she completely let’s go of her own fears and puts all of her faith in the Force, maybe that would be the way she has to defeat Sidious.

I’m going to ramble on somewhat of a theory regarding Force ghosts. In ESB, Obi-Wan tells Luke that he can’t interfere in his confrontation with the Vader, but maybe that is because someone on the spiritual plane can’t physically harm with someone on the physical plane, and vice versa.

I also think it is possible that living Force users have to act as conduits for Force ghosts to manifest themselves, so Force ghosts can’t just appear on their own alone. So imagine Rey being unable destroy the spirit of Palpatine on her own, and in her most hopeless moment, she finally let’s the Force flow through her completely, and suddenly the Force ghosts of Luke, Leia, Yoda, Obi-Wan, Qui-Gon (and Ahsoka?) appear and join forces to try and purge Palpatine’s spirit. Then finally, Anakin appears and delivers the final blow, destroying the last remnants of the last Sith Lord from galaxy.

I know I’m just setting myself up for disappointment, but it could be a good way to tie into Rey’s characterization, make the Force ghost ability that Qui-Gon apparently discovered in Episode I suddenly very important to the overall narrative in Episode IX, and also maintain Anakin’s role as Chosen One.

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TavorX said:

Maybe I’m just wearing a helmet with my blast shield down, but where is his body at the 54 sec mark? I only see his throne.

You’re right.

There’s nothing there.

Some people thought that was him standing to the right (see pic).

Looking at the trailer in 4K, I could see that there was nothing there.

It is just the throne/chair.

“Anakin had those qualities so rarely seen, exuding an unmistakable confidence and yet still able to touch one’s heart in simply knowing how he was so flawed… wounded.”

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They thought he was three feet tall?

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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I guess they thought his throne was gigantic.

But if you saw the picture that Disney had taken down, you’d see that the proportions are normal.

Also, Palpatine is in robes that resemble more of what he wore in ROTS, not ROTJ.

“Anakin had those qualities so rarely seen, exuding an unmistakable confidence and yet still able to touch one’s heart in simply knowing how he was so flawed… wounded.”

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TavorX said:

Darth Hade said:
But I don’t see how Palpatine being back can even be a question at this point as he clearly has his body in the trailer at the 54 second mark and the 1 minute; 58 second mark.

Maybe I’m just wearing a helmet with my blast shield down, but where is his body at the 54 sec mark? I only see his throne.

Regarding the general Palpatine talk, I also think RogueLeader’s take on why there’s more, supposed, physical shots of Palpatine makes sense.

But I still don’t think there’s concrete solidification that he is returning in the flesh, for the present timeline of events that will happen in the film. Sure yes there is… what we assume to be him floating with Rey nearby, but we all know what trickery these trailers can show. We assume it’s Palpatine… but if it really was, and the trailer knows that we know… wouldn’t the trailer show his face? Instead, we’re being shown a small angle of some dark hooded figure. Must be hiding something less obvious than what we think who it is, maybe.

And who knows, maybe they did shoot more scenes with Ian. It could be flashback kind of story stuff; that Sithy throne could be from ancient times. It couldn’t be on Endor or the destroyed ruins of the Death Star II, or any other random Imperial ship. I mean, it could… but it looks less likely to be tied to any of those locations. More so, like I said, attached to a flashback/back story to Palpatine/Sith stuff, y’know?

There’s a leaked photo going around, that clearly shows Palpatine in the flesh interacting with Rey, so there’s no doubt that he’s back in physical form, and not some flashback.

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Unless there’s another version out there, the one I’ve seen is so fuzzy it’s hard to say if Palpy is in the flesh or not. The fakes of Kylo a year or so back at an unknown location looked better than this.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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SilverWook said:

Unless there’s another version out there, the one I’ve seen is so fuzzy it’s hard to say if Palpy is in the flesh or not. The fakes of Kylo a year or so back at an unknown location looked better than this.

I think a lot of people here are refusing to see the obvious, and hoping for the moon. Both the trailer, and the leaked images of the last few days have confirmed many of the plot leaks, that have been going around for a while now. Palpatine is back in the flesh. He’s hooked up to some machine early in the film, as seen in the trailer, and foretold by the leaks months before the trailer was released:

A lot of people don’t want to believe Palpatine is back, because it doesn’t make much sense from the perspective of ROTJ, and I get it, but I think the nay sayers should be prepared for a dose of disappointment, and hope for a good explanation in the film for Palpatine’s return.

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RogueLeader said:

Yeah, I think one of the most common hopes I see people have is that Anakin’s Force ghost will show up. I know some people wouldn’t want that, but I think if Anakin, as a Force ghost, somehow took part in purging the last remnants of Sidious from the galaxy, it would help keep that prophecy/story element from George in tact.

It would actually make a lot of sense. If Sidious was in a corporeal form, and can’t physically be destroyed, it would present a great challenge for Rey, whose physicality is one of her strengths. If she was shown to struggle to tap into her spiritual side throughout the whole movie, and then at the climax she completely let’s go of her own fears and puts all of her faith in the Force, maybe that would be the way she has to defeat Sidious.

I’m going to ramble on somewhat of a theory regarding Force ghosts. In ESB, Obi-Wan tells Luke that he can’t interfere in his confrontation with the Vader, but maybe that is because someone on the spiritual plane can’t physically harm with someone on the physical plane, and vice versa.

I also think it is possible that living Force users have to act as conduits for Force ghosts to manifest themselves, so Force ghosts can’t just appear on their own alone. So imagine Rey being unable destroy the spirit of Palpatine on her own, and in her most hopeless moment, she finally let’s the Force flow through her completely, and suddenly the Force ghosts of Luke, Leia, Yoda, Obi-Wan, Qui-Gon (and Ahsoka?) appear and join forces to try and purge Palpatine’s spirit. Then finally, Anakin appears and delivers the final blow, destroying the last remnants of the last Sith Lord from galaxy.

I know I’m just setting myself up for disappointment, but it could be a good way to tie into Rey’s characterization, make the Force ghost ability that Qui-Gon apparently discovered in Episode I suddenly very important to the overall narrative in Episode IX, and also maintain Anakin’s role as Chosen One.

I really like this idea. Not too sure about Ashoka showing up, I think that would most likely just confuse the mainstream audience even more than Maul appearing in Solo did, but the rest seems quite plausible, and it would be a really interesting way to tie all nine movies together.

Though I’m personally still fine with Palpatine showing up in the flesh, as long as he didn’t just simply survive the fall. The possession concept works really well, and could explain why we haven’t actually seen Palpatine despite Ian McDiarmid being confirmed as being in the film. He could still be the voice, and we could always see the originalPalpatine through a flashback or some kind of vision or force-projection. Or he could just be a clone. I seem to be one of the few people who actually really like Dark Empire so I personally would have no issues with them just going for that explanation. Though the ghost or possession angle is more interesting, and “Sith-y” (if that makes any sense?).

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DrDre said:

and hope for a good explanation in the film for Palpatine’s return.

It’s JJ… I still can’t believe how he could miss that much the target with TFA. I’m pretty sure TROS is gonna be a fun ride to watch with great visual work and a damn fine Williams score, but also something totally useless and bland. It’s what JJ does: forgettable and dumb movies. I don’t even get why people are expecting something good or worth the Saga at this point. After 2 movies the ST has no plot, no real characters, nothing. The last entry just looks like a big fat ROTJ rehash…

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MalàStrana said:

DrDre said:

and hope for a good explanation in the film for Palpatine’s return.

It’s JJ… I still can’t believe how he could miss that much the target with TFA. I’m pretty sure TROS is gonna be a fun ride to watch with great visual work and a damn fine Williams score, but also something totally useless and bland. It’s what JJ does: forgettable and dumb movies. I don’t even get why people are expecting something good or worth the Saga at this point. After 2 movies the ST has no plot, no real characters, nothing. The last entry just looks like a big fat ROTJ rehash…

Sadly, I agree with you. I could never have thought I’d be this unenthusiastic for a (saga) Star Wars film. It’s just going to be a big, flashy load of… nothing.

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At this point I think my best strategy is to have the attitude of “a pessimist is never disappointed.”

After TFA, I said to myself that I think JJ did a good job, ala Star Trek ‘09, but that I’m glad he’s not directing any more SW films. When I heard he was being brought in to replace Trevorrow, I wasn’t enthused.

Obviously I hope these misgivings are themselves misguided.

PM me for links to my edits; apparently, some feel shy about this.

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Everybody who’s not going to see it, speak up now, for the record. 😉

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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Hal 9000 said:

When I heard he was being brought in to replace Trevorrow, I wasn’t enthused.

At the very least, he’s still a better choice than Trevorrow (the Jurassic World flicks… gosh…)

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DrDre said:

SilverWook said:

Unless there’s another version out there, the one I’ve seen is so fuzzy it’s hard to say if Palpy is in the flesh or not. The fakes of Kylo a year or so back at an unknown location looked better than this.

I think a lot of people here are refusing to see the obvious, and hoping for the moon. Both the trailer, and the leaked images of the last few days have confirmed many of the plot leaks, that have been going around for a while now. Palpatine is back in the flesh. He’s hooked up to some machine early in the film, as seen in the trailer, and foretold by the leaks months before the trailer was released:

A lot of people don’t want to believe Palpatine is back, because it doesn’t make much sense from the perspective of ROTJ, and I get it, but I think the nay sayers should be prepared for a dose of disappointment, and hope for a good explanation in the film for Palpatine’s return.

To be honest I wasn’t sure if this cloak belonged to Evil Rey or something, but I don’t know what the rumours were.

Yub Nub for life