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Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * SPOILER THREAD * — Page 101

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If interest is waning that’s not inherently the fault of the franchise itself. There’s a lot more stuff competing for eyeballs these days, and not just superhero movies. I feel like the first Guardians Of The Galaxy movie actually stole a little bit of thunder from Star Wars as we hadn’t had a honest to goodness space opera flick in several years at that point.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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 (Edited)

SilverWook said:

If interest is waning that’s not inherently the fault of the franchise itself. There’s a lot more stuff competing for eyeballs these days, and not just superhero movies. I feel like the first Guardians Of The Galaxy movie actually stole a little bit of thunder from Star Wars as we hadn’t had a honest to goodness space opera flick in several years at that point.

I agree multiple factors come into play, and competition is a pretty big one, but at the same time the momentum created by TFA and RO seems to have been lost, and it can’t be denied there’s a lot of turmoil in the fanbase. There’s been a lot of debate on whether the classic characters have been effectively used in the ST with 2 out of the big 3 being killed before the end of the second movie. How much of a factor have the classic characters, and the actors portraying them been in the success of Disney’s earliest releases, and how is their absence going to affect future interest in the franchise? What is Star Wars without Luke, Han, Leia, Chewie, Lando, R2-D2, C-3PO, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Yoda, and Darth Vader? The message of the ST thusfar has been clear (and rumors have been circling around as to why): out with the old, in with the new. Was that a good choice on the part of Disney? Galaxy’s Edge is a great example, which focusses completely on the ST era, and seems to be heading towards a failure.

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DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

The speculation about how the film may or may not perform is a complete waste of time.

In what sense? In this case it is not just speculation, it is a prediction based on a model, that has been scientifically validated, a model which shows movies with less interest on google trends tend to have lower box office returns, whereas higher interest generally leads to higher box office returns. So, it is simply an indicator, an indicator which gets more accurate as the movie’s release date approaches.

The truth will be in the proverbial pudding. Until then you can pat your back that everyone hates Disney Star Wars as much as you do. But the fact of the matter is, when the film is released, it’ll make the company a fair bit of money either way. And ultimately, who cares? The ST is done no matter how the film performs. The idea that Star Wars is ‘dead’ or will be after the film comes out is delusional. Disney will release more Star Wars films whether you like them or not. The only possible effect a disappointing box office run might have on the future of the franchise is that they’ll give into the nebulous desire for more of “what the fans want,” which is not something anyone should be foaming at the mouth for.

This is nonsense. I don’t hate Disney Star Wars anymore than I hated the prequels. I think both trilogies are deeply flawed, but they have their merits as well. I also haven’t stated, I expect Star Wars to be ‘dead’ in the future. So, I don’t know where all these baseless statements are coming from. I thought we had moved past these sort of outbursts, but I guess not.

The fact is interest in the franchise is waning, and I’m certainly curious about what Disney is going to do about it, and how TROS is going fit into that picture, both in terms of the current interest in the franchise, and the direction TROS might give for the future.

Not meant as an outburst. Figured you might take issue with some of my word choices but I was writing quickly and they did well as shorthand for - if not your feelings specifically - the feelings of many who talk about similar concerns on the internet. No need to take things personally, it was meant as a general comment.

As for the franchise waning, it’s a fact only so far as it’s naturally coming down from the all time high (77 excluded) of the TFA revival. Anything beyond that is up for debate - like any franchise Star Wars has always had its ups and downs. When the dust settles we’ll see if this is just a natural dip in between Episodes or something more. Either way it shouldn’t affect our view of the content itself.

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Yeah I think they’re fair points of discussion, but I think a lot of people who dislike the new movies try to use numerical data as evidence to prove that they’re objectively bad and justify their own opinion. So it hard to determine what discussion is sincere or what is in bad faith.

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RogueLeader said:

Yeah I think they’re fair points of discussion, but I think a lot of people who dislike the new movies try to use numerical data as evidence to prove that they’re objectively bad and justify their own opinion. So it hard to determine what discussion is sincere or what is in bad faith.

This is not just an issue for those that dislike the films, or are critical of the more recent movies. People in general try to justify their own opinions, whether it’s positive or negative. However, I think in the end no matter how good or bad you feel the movies are, this type of division in the fanbase is not benificial for the future of the franchise.

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This is NOT the Sequel Trilogy performance thread - NOT a recent SW movies thread - and nor is it the ‘franchise as a whole’ discussions thread.

As suggested before, whilst they are intriguing discussions, they will be better suited to their own thread(s) - or more relevant threads - than this one.
 

Thank you.
 

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here?
And say something righteous and hopeful for a change?

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 (Edited)

John Williams’ brother, Don: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker Score Will Include ‘Every Theme That You Ever Heard’ (from IGN)

(with an inference that Episode IX runs for 135 minutes…)

 

It has been a while since I have heard Jar Jar’s theme 😉
 

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here?
And say something righteous and hopeful for a change?

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oojason said:

John Williams’ brother, Don: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker Score Will Include ‘Every Theme That You Ever Heard’ (from IGN)

(with an inference that Episode IX runs for 135 minutes…)

 

It has been a while since I have heard Jar Jar’s theme 😉
 

Actually the scores of movies in general and Star Wars specifically are shorter than the actual runtime of the film. Having seen ANH and TESB with an orchestra, one of the first things I noticed is, that there are a number of scenes in both films, that don’t have any music at all. For example the trash compactor scene doesn’t have any score. So, if the score for TROS runs 135 min, we can expect TROS to have a runtime closer to 3 hrs.

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Jar Jar joins the Resistance confirmed!

I’ve seen some pretty good discussion regarding this news online, and how that 135 minutes of score translates to runtime. Definitely ranging from 2hr15 to 3hr, but it is really hard to say when taking final edit into account. But I recall there being rumors about the script being rather long as well.

What Don said about the themes is really exciting though. I’m not sure how pronounced they’ll be translated exactly in the film. I could imagine we only get hints of different themes, and then full blown versions during the credits. I remember the Revenge of the Sith credits being really amazing since Williams figures it would be his last hurrah. With this REALLY being his last hurrah, I definitely will sit through the credits and try to enjoy it (though my mind will probably be reeling at that point!)

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DrDre said:

oojason said:

John Williams’ brother, Don: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker Score Will Include ‘Every Theme That You Ever Heard’ (from IGN)

(with an inference that Episode IX runs for 135 minutes…)

 

It has been a while since I have heard Jar Jar’s theme 😉
 

Actually the scores of movies in general and Star Wars specifically are shorter than the actual runtime of the film. Having seen ANH and TESB with an orchestra, one of the first things I noticed is, that there are a number of scenes in both films, that don’t have any music at all. For example the trash compactor scene doesn’t have any score. So, if the score for TROS runs 135 min, we can expect TROS to have a runtime closer to 3 hrs.

It should be pointed out that quite often scenes are scored but then the decision is made in editing that the scene works better with no music. Case in point - the lightsaber duel in ESB is almost entirely scored, but very little of the score appears in the film. So the total minutes of score written and recorded is often quite a bit higher than the amount of score actually used in the film.

Which isn’t to say that every minute of the film is scored from the get go, there’s plenty of scenes that are never scored, too. But I don’t think you can get 3 hours from 135 minutes of score. Probably closer to 2.5 hours, with maybe 110-120 minutes of the written score used in the 150 minutes of runtime.

a trolling bantha

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ChainsawAsh said:

DrDre said:

oojason said:

John Williams’ brother, Don: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker Score Will Include ‘Every Theme That You Ever Heard’ (from IGN)

(with an inference that Episode IX runs for 135 minutes…)

 

It has been a while since I have heard Jar Jar’s theme 😉
 

Actually the scores of movies in general and Star Wars specifically are shorter than the actual runtime of the film. Having seen ANH and TESB with an orchestra, one of the first things I noticed is, that there are a number of scenes in both films, that don’t have any music at all. For example the trash compactor scene doesn’t have any score. So, if the score for TROS runs 135 min, we can expect TROS to have a runtime closer to 3 hrs.

It should be pointed out that quite often scenes are scored but then the decision is made in editing that the scene works better with no music. Case in point - the lightsaber duel in ESB is almost entirely scored, but very little of the score appears in the film. So the total minutes of score written and recorded is often quite a bit higher than the amount of score actually used in the film.

Which isn’t to say that every minute of the film is scored from the get go, there’s plenty of scenes that are never scored, too. But I don’t think you can get 3 hours from 135 minutes of score. Probably closer to 2.5 hours, with maybe 110-120 minutes of the written score used in the 150 minutes of runtime.

And sometimes they reuse a track instead of the one scored for it. It happened twice in TESB.

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DominicCobb said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

The speculation about how the film may or may not perform is a complete waste of time.

In what sense? In this case it is not just speculation, it is a prediction based on a model, that has been scientifically validated, a model which shows movies with less interest on google trends tend to have lower box office returns, whereas higher interest generally leads to higher box office returns. So, it is simply an indicator, an indicator which gets more accurate as the movie’s release date approaches.

The truth will be in the proverbial pudding. Until then you can pat your back that everyone hates Disney Star Wars as much as you do. But the fact of the matter is, when the film is released, it’ll make the company a fair bit of money either way. And ultimately, who cares? The ST is done no matter how the film performs. The idea that Star Wars is ‘dead’ or will be after the film comes out is delusional. Disney will release more Star Wars films whether you like them or not. The only possible effect a disappointing box office run might have on the future of the franchise is that they’ll give into the nebulous desire for more of “what the fans want,” which is not something anyone should be foaming at the mouth for.

This is nonsense. I don’t hate Disney Star Wars anymore than I hated the prequels. I think both trilogies are deeply flawed, but they have their merits as well. I also haven’t stated, I expect Star Wars to be ‘dead’ in the future. So, I don’t know where all these baseless statements are coming from. I thought we had moved past these sort of outbursts, but I guess not.

The fact is interest in the franchise is waning, and I’m certainly curious about what Disney is going to do about it, and how TROS is going fit into that picture, both in terms of the current interest in the franchise, and the direction TROS might give for the future.

Not meant as an outburst. Figured you might take issue with some of my word choices but I was writing quickly and they did well as shorthand for - if not your feelings specifically - the feelings of many who talk about similar concerns on the internet. No need to take things personally, it was meant as a general comment.

As for the franchise waning, it’s a fact only so far as it’s naturally coming down from the all time high (77 excluded) of the TFA revival. Anything beyond that is up for debate - like any franchise Star Wars has always had its ups and downs. When the dust settles we’ll see if this is just a natural dip in between Episodes or something more. Either way it shouldn’t affect our view of the content itself.

Star Wars fever ran high from 77 to 80. It kept going from 80 to 83. After 83 it fizzled within 2 years. I saw the same with the PT. The energy was high, toys everywhere, then ROTS came out and poof… everything dropped off.

So I expect that after TROS that things are going to drop off faster. It isn’t a matter of the love of Star Wars waning, it is just that everyone knows the trilogy is over.

And I really can’t align the stats DrDre is quoting to the stats that currently, this far out, that the TROS teaser has 75% of the views of the TFA trailer. That is a huge number of views at this point compared to a teaser trailer that came out 4 years ago. To me that indicates that something about the stats DrDre is quoting are incomplete and aren’t giving us the whole picture.

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yotsuya said:

DominicCobb said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

The speculation about how the film may or may not perform is a complete waste of time.

In what sense? In this case it is not just speculation, it is a prediction based on a model, that has been scientifically validated, a model which shows movies with less interest on google trends tend to have lower box office returns, whereas higher interest generally leads to higher box office returns. So, it is simply an indicator, an indicator which gets more accurate as the movie’s release date approaches.

The truth will be in the proverbial pudding. Until then you can pat your back that everyone hates Disney Star Wars as much as you do. But the fact of the matter is, when the film is released, it’ll make the company a fair bit of money either way. And ultimately, who cares? The ST is done no matter how the film performs. The idea that Star Wars is ‘dead’ or will be after the film comes out is delusional. Disney will release more Star Wars films whether you like them or not. The only possible effect a disappointing box office run might have on the future of the franchise is that they’ll give into the nebulous desire for more of “what the fans want,” which is not something anyone should be foaming at the mouth for.

This is nonsense. I don’t hate Disney Star Wars anymore than I hated the prequels. I think both trilogies are deeply flawed, but they have their merits as well. I also haven’t stated, I expect Star Wars to be ‘dead’ in the future. So, I don’t know where all these baseless statements are coming from. I thought we had moved past these sort of outbursts, but I guess not.

The fact is interest in the franchise is waning, and I’m certainly curious about what Disney is going to do about it, and how TROS is going fit into that picture, both in terms of the current interest in the franchise, and the direction TROS might give for the future.

Not meant as an outburst. Figured you might take issue with some of my word choices but I was writing quickly and they did well as shorthand for - if not your feelings specifically - the feelings of many who talk about similar concerns on the internet. No need to take things personally, it was meant as a general comment.

As for the franchise waning, it’s a fact only so far as it’s naturally coming down from the all time high (77 excluded) of the TFA revival. Anything beyond that is up for debate - like any franchise Star Wars has always had its ups and downs. When the dust settles we’ll see if this is just a natural dip in between Episodes or something more. Either way it shouldn’t affect our view of the content itself.

Star Wars fever ran high from 77 to 80. It kept going from 80 to 83. After 83 it fizzled within 2 years. I saw the same with the PT. The energy was high, toys everywhere, then ROTS came out and poof… everything dropped off.

So I expect that after TROS that things are going to drop off faster. It isn’t a matter of the love of Star Wars waning, it is just that everyone knows the trilogy is over.

And I really can’t align the stats DrDre is quoting to the stats that currently, this far out, that the TROS teaser has 75% of the views of the TFA trailer. That is a huge number of views at this point compared to a teaser trailer that came out 4 years ago. To me that indicates that something about the stats DrDre is quoting are incomplete and aren’t giving us the whole picture.

There’s a separate thread for this subject:

https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/The-Rise-of-Skywalker-box-office-results-predictions-and-expectations/id/69130

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DrDre said:

oojason said:

John Williams’ brother, Don: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker Score Will Include ‘Every Theme That You Ever Heard’ (from IGN)

(with an inference that Episode IX runs for 135 minutes…)

 

It has been a while since I have heard Jar Jar’s theme 😉
 

Actually the scores of movies in general and Star Wars specifically are shorter than the actual runtime of the film. Having seen ANH and TESB with an orchestra, one of the first things I noticed is, that there are a number of scenes in both films, that don’t have any music at all. For example the trash compactor scene doesn’t have any score. So, if the score for TROS runs 135 min, we can expect TROS to have a runtime closer to 3 hrs.

Well it depends. I believe TFA and TLJ had comparable lengths for their scores, if not longer. But it’s a different situation with everything. TLJ had about 135 minutes of score and the movie was 150 minutes, which meant the music was a bit more wall to wall than usual for a SW film. TFA had a few scenes where the music was written and recorded but then cut in editing, as well as a lot of alternate cues for scenes due to the prolonged editing and recording schedule of the film (and reshoots).

That being said, in terms of TROS, we know that the schedule is a bit more compressed which means less time for post tinkering like JJ did on TFA. As well, there are less recording sessions for JW. So that being said, we’re basically still looking at a range of scenarios - the film uses all the music and is scored wall to wall or it’s not and it’s just a very long film, or the film ends up cutting a lot of the music and is a typical length SW film.

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DrDre said:
For example the trash compactor scene doesn’t have any score.

Am I reading that response incorrectly?

The music during the trash compactor scene has been one of my very favorite pieces of Star Wars music since its release.

The Walls Converge: https://youtu.be/XOmwMqEULeg

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Anchorhead said:

DrDre said:
For example the trash compactor scene doesn’t have any score.

Am I reading that response incorrectly?

The music during the trash compactor scene has been one of my very favorite pieces of Star Wars music since its release.

The Walls Converge: https://youtu.be/XOmwMqEULeg

What he’s saying is not that there wasn’t any score written/recorded, but that the final scene is almost entirely without music (save the last minute or so) because Lucas decided to cut it out.

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I’d have thought that the music written was always more than they need, the way there’s extra music for Hoth or parts of Leia’s theme.

Yub Nub for life

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Mocata said:

I’d have thought that the music written was always more than they need, the way there’s extra music for Hoth or parts of Leia’s theme.

That’s not usually how it’s done. Recording music costs time and money so they don’t really want to be making things they aren’t going to use - just like deleted scenes aren’t shot with the purpose of being cut. It depends on the composer but with Williams on Star Wars, he’s scoring directly to the edited picture, in places he and the director have decided should have a score.

Where you might be getting confused is something like the Princess Leia theme suite - that’s a piece that was written and recorded parallel to the film’s score itself and was never intended to be used in the film (and, indeed, that recording has never been used in a SW) but was included on the soundtrack album. Composers often write concert suites for themes from their films and include them as pieces on albums, and/or perform them at concerts.

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I’m thinking of the music that plays while Luke is lost in the snow, and while the film cuts to the Echo Base and a new piece comes in, the score alone carries on. I just always remember it because they used it in the Shadows of the Empire game soundtrack.

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Mocata said:

I’m thinking of the music that plays while Luke is lost in the snow, and while the film cuts to the Echo Base and a new piece comes in, the score alone carries on. I just always remember it because they used it in the Shadows of the Empire game soundtrack.

There’s a lot of music from Empire that was cut out, particularly at the beginning (and in some cases new pieces were recorded instead). But the intention originally was in fact to include that music in the film.

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DominicCobb said:

Mocata said:

I’m thinking of the music that plays while Luke is lost in the snow, and while the film cuts to the Echo Base and a new piece comes in, the score alone carries on. I just always remember it because they used it in the Shadows of the Empire game soundtrack.

There’s a lot of music from Empire that was cut out, particularly at the beginning (and in some cases new pieces were recorded instead). But the intention originally was in fact to include that music in the film.

Two tracks were dumped in favor of other tracks. The search for Han and Luke has the Hyperspace track from the end of the film instead of what was written for it. And the concert version of the Imperial March was used for the reveal of the SSD instead of the track written for it. Like everything else, it is a matter of having the right music and sometimes what a composer comes up with and records is not what works best.

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What are the chances with all that needs to happen in TROS they pull a Harry Potter and decide to split the final chapter as a surprise finale, rounding the saga out to 10 episodes? I don’t think the odds are high on this one and I have no basis for the suspicion but the more I think about it the less crazy it seems, thoughts?

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As much as I would love more Skywalkers, the marketing at celebration was all about the 9 part saga.

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Episode 9 1/2 The Smell of Fear?

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