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Episode IX - Discussion * SPOILER THREAD * — Page 37

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Tobar said:

Anakin Starkiller said:

And knowing JJ, there’s a very good chance that’s happening.

Are we talking about the same JJ?

I know he has a distaste for the PT BUT I can easily see him getting over it if he can use it to maximize the emotional manipulation of the audience. Which will be his primary goal for the end of the film/saga.

No way. JJ is an OT fanboy. He’s gonna use Lando as much as possible, as well as force ghost Yoda and Luke. But not Hayden (which would be a great way to at least create somewhat of a unification between George’s saga and the Disney saga).

Vader, a 7 in 1 edit of the entire Star Wars Saga

Maul, a clone wars edit

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Restore the unaltered OT and they can legtimize the SE in Episode IX all they want.

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Fang Zei said:

Did I miss this ghost Hayden rumor earlier when I was avoiding this thread for the first thirty or so pages, or is that just pure speculation on your part?

No, just my own speculation. I don’t think it would necessarily be a dig at the OOT or a validation of the 2004 version of ROTJ at all. Sebastian Shaw is long gone, and Hayden is someone who played Anakin. It’d maybe be a little silly to make him up to appear like Shaw, but I’d be okay with just not trying to pass him off as 23.

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Hal 9000 said:

Fang Zei said:

Did I miss this ghost Hayden rumor earlier when I was avoiding this thread for the first thirty or so pages, or is that just pure speculation on your part?

No, just my own speculation. I don’t think it would necessarily be a dig at the OOT or a validation of the 2004 version of ROTJ at all. Sebastian Shaw is long gone, and Hayden is someone who played Anakin. It’d maybe be a little silly to make him up to appear like Shaw, but I’d be okay with just not trying to pass him off as 23.

I’d only be truly happy with Force Ghost Anakin if he appeared like ‘god’ in The Final Frontier, cycling through images of Prowse, Shaw, Hayden, and Jones throughout the scene.

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NeverarGreat said:

Hal 9000 said:

Fang Zei said:

Did I miss this ghost Hayden rumor earlier when I was avoiding this thread for the first thirty or so pages, or is that just pure speculation on your part?

No, just my own speculation. I don’t think it would necessarily be a dig at the OOT or a validation of the 2004 version of ROTJ at all. Sebastian Shaw is long gone, and Hayden is someone who played Anakin. It’d maybe be a little silly to make him up to appear like Shaw, but I’d be okay with just not trying to pass him off as 23.

I’d only be truly happy with Force Ghost Anakin if he appeared like ‘god’ in The Final Frontier, cycling through images of Prowse, Shaw, Hayden, and Jones throughout the scene.

A hybrid ghost Anakin concept was considered for TFA.
https://www.denofgeek.com/us/movies/star-wars/251619/star-wars-anakin-was-almost-in-the-force-awakens

They could even borrow an idea from 2010, where Dave Bowman’s appearance changed from shot to shot, cycling through his various forms from the end of 2001. And it’s not like they can’t do a CGI Sebastian Shaw at this point.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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OutboundFlight said:

Tobar said:

Anakin Starkiller said:

And knowing JJ, there’s a very good chance that’s happening.

Are we talking about the same JJ?

I know he has a distaste for the PT BUT I can easily see him getting over it if he can use it to maximize the emotional manipulation of the audience. Which will be his primary goal for the end of the film/saga.

No way. JJ is an OT fanboy. He’s gonna use Lando as much as possible, as well as force ghost Yoda and Luke. But not Hayden (which would be a great way to at least create somewhat of a unification between George’s saga and the Disney saga).

JJ somehow manages to be everyone’s boogeyman.

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 (Edited)

DominicCobb said:

OutboundFlight said:

Tobar said:

Anakin Starkiller said:

And knowing JJ, there’s a very good chance that’s happening.

Are we talking about the same JJ?

I know he has a distaste for the PT BUT I can easily see him getting over it if he can use it to maximize the emotional manipulation of the audience. Which will be his primary goal for the end of the film/saga.

No way. JJ is an OT fanboy. He’s gonna use Lando as much as possible, as well as force ghost Yoda and Luke. But not Hayden (which would be a great way to at least create somewhat of a unification between George’s saga and the Disney saga).

JJ somehow manages to be everyone’s boogeyman.

The Fanboy-ness works for TFA, but I am worried he might descend into more nostalgia when crafting the conclusion to not just the Sequel Trilogy or the story Luke started in ANH… but also the rise and fall Anakin Skywalker. Rian Johnson did help mark some shifts, but it’s up to the filmmakers of 9 to either go all in with the new… or revert to nostalgia.

I had hopes JJ would listen to the feedback, but am very confused why Lando is in the new movie. Wasn’t the entire point of killing Han and Luke so we could have space for Rey and Kylo? This should be their story and yet I find after two films we still haven’t reached that point.

Vader, a 7 in 1 edit of the entire Star Wars Saga

Maul, a clone wars edit

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The one thing about Anakin’s ghost that would make me get up and leave would be if he’s evil.

*See any rant of mine about the meaning of Anakin’s redemption in ROTJ, re: why the argument for Hayden ghost about his ‘good self’ dying in ROTS is fundamentally wrong, even if Lucas says so.

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Hal 9000 said:

The one thing about Anakin’s ghost that would make me get up and leave would be if he’s evil.

*See any rant of mine about the meaning of Anakin’s redemption in ROTJ, re: why the argument for Hayden ghost about his ‘good self’ dying in ROTS is fundamentally wrong, even if Lucas says so.

I agree, Shaw would be preferred but unfortunately he is one with the force. Hayden is the best option remaining (sorry Jake)- unless they could pull a Tarkin on us.

Vader, a 7 in 1 edit of the entire Star Wars Saga

Maul, a clone wars edit

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Can a Force ghost still be tempted by the Dark Side?

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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OutboundFlight said:

DominicCobb said:

OutboundFlight said:

Tobar said:

Anakin Starkiller said:

And knowing JJ, there’s a very good chance that’s happening.

Are we talking about the same JJ?

I know he has a distaste for the PT BUT I can easily see him getting over it if he can use it to maximize the emotional manipulation of the audience. Which will be his primary goal for the end of the film/saga.

No way. JJ is an OT fanboy. He’s gonna use Lando as much as possible, as well as force ghost Yoda and Luke. But not Hayden (which would be a great way to at least create somewhat of a unification between George’s saga and the Disney saga).

JJ somehow manages to be everyone’s boogeyman.

The Fanboy-ness works for TFA, but I am worried he might descend into more nostalgia when crafting the conclusion to not just the Sequel Trilogy or the story Luke started in ANH… but also the rise and fall Anakin Skywalker. Rian Johnson did help mark some shifts, but it’s up to the filmmakers of 9 to either go all in with the new… or revert to nostalgia.

I had hopes JJ would listen to the feedback, but am very confused why Lando is in the new movie. Wasn’t the entire point of killing Han and Luke so we could have space for Rey and Kylo? This should be their story and yet I find after two films we still haven’t reached that point.

Why would you assume Lando would have a role as sizable as Han in TFA/Luke in TLJ? That’s almost certainly not the case. Is it a problem that Chewie, R2, and 3PO are in the movie too?

Chances are Lando simply fits into the story being told (and it’s easy to see how post-TLJ).

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OutboundFlight said:

No way. JJ is an OT fanboy. He’s gonna use Lando as much as possible, as well as force ghost Yoda and Luke. But not Hayden (which would be a great way to at least create somewhat of a unification between George’s saga and the Disney saga).

Just because J.J. Abrams is not a fan of the prequels, it doesn’t mean that he can’t use elements from them in a good way. There were some bad elements about the prequels, but there were also some good elements. It’s mainly the way the films turned out in the end which was disappointing. I don’t blame Hayden Christensen for his poor performance, I mainly lay the blame on George Lucas. He was the director, and the director is supposed to get the best performance out of their actors (something that George has struggled with when he is directing a film). J.J. Abrams, and yes, even Rian Johnson, are able to do that job well.

Noah Lawson

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Discussing more of the potentials spoilers below.

dgraham414 said:

https://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2018/12/episode-ix-rumors-timeline.html

I hope this isn’t true. Specifically the idea that Rey would just put the Skywalker lightsaber back together… it just seems like a cop out to the toxic side of the fandom.

Also Kylo just reconstructing his helmet. It’s just moving the story backwards instead of forwards…

Thoughts?

I had a similar reaction initially as well, since I kind of hoped Rey would have a double-bladed lightsaber.

Though the idea of Rey repairing the Skywalker Saber and Kylo Ren reconstructing his helmet, especially the way Kylo’s helmet is described, has reminded many of the Japanese art of Kintsugi, which is when one uses a golden (or other kind of) lacquer to reassemble the broken pieces of pottery. The idea is that the imperfection itself is a kind of beauty, and how it can represent taking our own scars and implementing the past to become stronger personally. I think this idea fits in very well with what has been presented, but I am sure others will see it as JJ “retconning” Rian, but guess we’ll just have to wait and see. I definitely don’t think this creative decision shouldn’t worry anyone too much though. Might be overthinking thinking it otherwise.

Here’s a video talking about Kintsugi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lT55_u8URU0

Also wanted to mention two things.
One, just because Kylo’s helmet is back doesn’t really represent a regression of his character. Despite becoming ruler of the galaxy, he seemed to be at an emotional low point by the end of TLJ, so him returning to it either to hide his own emotions or to cement an intimidating image as the new Supreme Leader makes sense to me. Also, we don’t really know how much of the mask we’ll see. We’ll probably see more of the mask than we did in TLJ, but we will see more of Adam Driver’s face still than we did in TFA. Maybe 50/50 or 25/75. Like he wears the mask in public then takes it off in private and other emotional scenes.

Secondly, the description we get about Rey’s lightsaber is very very vague. From the reddit post:

They also talked about Rey’s lightsaber and how it’s back and has been reforged. They said the reforge is not shown on screen.

What it looked like wasn’t shown on screen, so to me it still isn’t clear what the saber will look like. She could have just put the saber back together, or “reforge” could mean she has remade it into a new variant. A double-bladed saber would make sense considering her skill with a staff, plus the kyber crystal being split into two. But, it is also possible that she just repaired the original design. At the very least, I would hope that there will be a clear indication that it was repaired to keep with that kintsugi idea, I would be very surprised if it looked exactly the same, since less variation means less MERCHANDISING!

The part that I’m little less interested in is the description of the new droid. I’m sure it’ll be cute, but with this being the last Skywalker film, I’m hoping we will get a nice sendoff for R2-D2 and C-3PO. Hopefully this new droid won’t get in the way of that.

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I know I won’t like this movie at all, but the one thing I would like to see is Caroline Blakistone cameoing as an elderly Mon Mothma, but I’m not holding my breath.

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nl0428 said:

OutboundFlight said:

No way. JJ is an OT fanboy. He’s gonna use Lando as much as possible, as well as force ghost Yoda and Luke. But not Hayden (which would be a great way to at least create somewhat of a unification between George’s saga and the Disney saga).

Just because J.J. Abrams is not a fan of the prequels, it doesn’t mean that he can’t use elements from them in a good way. There were some bad elements about the prequels, but there were also some good elements. It’s mainly the way the films turned out in the end which was disappointing. I don’t blame Hayden Christensen for his poor performance, I mainly lay the blame on George Lucas. He was the director, and the director is supposed to get the best performance out of their actors (something that George has struggled with when he is directing a film). J.J. Abrams, and yes, even Rian Johnson, are able to do that job well.

We’re not debating the merits of the Prequels. We’re talking about JJ’s perspective on them, which appears to be negative enough to warrant ignoring them practically entirely.

As for the reconstruction stuff, while it’s annoying to see JJ keep this game of directors’ ping pong going, it’d be neat if the reconstruction of the object symbolized the reconstruction of the tropes their destruction symbolized the deconstruction of in TLJ.

chyron8472 said:

Why guess how old Frink is when it’s easier just to say he’s a crotchety old man?

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If there really will be ‘flashbacks’ or extensive callbacks to all prior films, it’d be really great if that did not include Padme’s funeral or death.

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Don’t know if this has been said before but I have a sneaky feeling Rey is the child of Q’ira. Darth Maul created life ala Plaeguies. Don’t say much on the site anymore just thought I’d chime in with my theory after reading some of your thoughts.

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lpd said:

Don’t know if this has been said before but I have a sneaky feeling Rey is the child of Q’ira. Darth Maul created life ala Plaeguies. Don’t say much on the site anymore just thought I’d chime in with my theory after reading some of your thoughts.

I believe that the story arc of Rey’s parents are finished. Rey even told Ben that she knew they were nobody the whole time deep inside her, despite that she didn’t want to believe it. Daisy Ridley even confirmed in an interview with Rolling Stone a couple of months after the release of The Last Jedi that the revelation of her parents in VIII is what she was told from the beginning when she signed on to the trilogy. I personally like the direction of her parents being irrelevant, but I’m sorry to you and anyone holding on that she was related to a familiar character from the past.

Noah Lawson

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 (Edited)

nl0428 said:

lpd said:

Don’t know if this has been said before but I have a sneaky feeling Rey is the child of Q’ira. Darth Maul created life ala Plaeguies. Don’t say much on the site anymore just thought I’d chime in with my theory after reading some of your thoughts.

I believe that the story arc of Rey’s parents are finished. Rey even told Ben that she knew they were nobody the whole time deep inside her, despite that she didn’t want to believe it. Daisy Ridley even confirmed in an interview with Rolling Stone a couple of months after the release of The Last Jedi that the revelation of her parents in VIII is what she was told from the beginning when she signed on to the trilogy. I personally like the direction of her parents being irrelevant, but I’m sorry to you and anyone holding on that she was related to a familiar character from the past.

Just don’t know to be honest, its been shown since star wars 77 and especially over the last two movies that its really being changed and evolving on the move. ie:It really didn’t have an arc. Each movie is being written on the fly. I really think that’s why that scene was thrown on the end of Solo.
But what do I know?

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lpd said:

nl0428 said:

lpd said:

Don’t know if this has been said before but I have a sneaky feeling Rey is the child of Q’ira. Darth Maul created life ala Plaeguies. Don’t say much on the site anymore just thought I’d chime in with my theory after reading some of your thoughts.

I believe that the story arc of Rey’s parents are finished. Rey even told Ben that she knew they were nobody the whole time deep inside her, despite that she didn’t want to believe it. Daisy Ridley even confirmed in an interview with Rolling Stone a couple of months after the release of The Last Jedi that the revelation of her parents in VIII is what she was told from the beginning when she signed on to the trilogy. I personally like the direction of her parents being irrelevant, but I’m sorry to you and anyone holding on that she was related to a familiar character from the past.

Just don’t know to be honest, its been shown since star wars 77 and especially over the last two movies that its really being changed and evolving on the move. ie:It really didn’t have an arc. Each movie is being written on the fly. I really think that’s why that scene was thrown on the end of Solo.
But what do I know?

An interesting theory. Though it seems like a bad idea to tie Rey to some character from a movie that nobody saw, who has never been mentioned in and is only tangentially related to the numbered movies. “Solo” bombed pretty hard and I don’t think Disney will want to remind everyone of it.

I personally think it would be inappropriate and would lessen my appreciation for the ST.

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lpd said:

Just don’t know to be honest, its been shown since star wars 77 and especially over the last two movies that its really being changed and evolving on the move. ie:It really didn’t have an arc. Each movie is being written on the fly. I really think that’s why that scene was thrown on the end of Solo.
But what do I know?

I wouldn’t necessarily say that the sequel trilogy is being changed in between films. I believe that J.J. set up that Rey’s parents were nobody, and that is something that Rian Johnson carried over into The Last Jedi. I also think that J.J. intentionally also set up the romantic relationship being developed between Rey and Kylo Ren.

Noah Lawson