mrbenja0618 said:
Nothing about this will be easy I'm afraid......
I'm trying to figure out how to make this work, but also work in a storytelling sense... And hopefully meet Trooperman's approval...
But, I won't show off anything until I think it looks ok.
New thought.... I thought I read someone say that they thought it would be interesting if Maul were to fall into something energy-based.... something hot.
What if Maul was scorched? Much like Anakin would be later.... What if we took small snipits of Anakin being constructed into vader, and give the guys some charred horns... His tattoo would be burned off, we could be more subtle about it I think... Motion tracking horns may not be too difficult... And then maybe we could give Grevious Maul's voice... General Grevious to me was supposed to be a precursor to Vader anyway, why would it be so hard to have it look similar.. We could change the mood with some mild color correction..... This may be stupid, because I'm not sure a scene like this even belongs in ep. 2... Thoughts?
Sorry, Mrbenja. I didn't mean to ignore this. I think this sounds good. First off, I would be shocked if Lucas had tried to say Maul got out of that chute without being chewed to ribbons and scorched. As has been said, it's a chute inside an energy plant-- it certainly didn't have a feather bed at the bottom of it for catching people.Do we have to see fire or energy in the pit to believe he gets scorched in the fall? I don't think I do. maybe I should rewatch it.
Can you say more about this idea? Let's say Maul is scorched and this could go in epII-- where would this go, after Dukoo arrives at Sidious' lair? That sounds good to me. So what would we see? A few bits of Sidious building Grevious? Would we do a reveal? It might be cool to have the reveal be simply a close on Maul's eyes opening in the Grevious mask. Music sting. Cut away.
As for changing Grevious' voice, I'm all for it-- but that's an epIII edit issue. It's not necessary for me. After all, Darth Vader sounds not one little bit like Anakin. I don't remember enough about Grevious' voice to say I need it changed. Naturally, some of his lines could become more powerful and appropriate if they were rewritten with this idea in mind.
Ah, gotcha. Say, while we're on this creative hot streak, wouldn't it be *fantastic* if we could have the under-construction Maul-Grievous give a water-muffled "NOOOOO!"? It would---sorry, I can't go on. I suddenly feel so dirty...
I think Maul falling into a hot, energy-based substance would be appropriate...plus, it's an easy fix, just add a glow in the hole!
I think Maul falling into a hot, energy-based substance would be appropriate...plus, it's an easy fix, just add a glow in the hole!
**
Good idea, but that is actually and ep1 edit issue.
Honestly, I never thought falling in that chute could be anything but instant death. Am I off-base? What did you think happened to Maul's body at the bottom of it?
Ok, all of this helped.... I have new ideas.... Off to work!!!
if there is to be a maul-grevious character, it would be awesome to have him feature as an actual character in the film, who gets toasted, so providing some form of humour later on when he returns even more robotic.
i also was pondering having Christopher Lee wear a mask throughout the film, and the name 'count dooku', is actually his alias for his true character (possibly making him sifo dias). he could remove the mask at the end of the film just before the duel.
on ep I integration - 'sifo-dias' could be mentioned somehow, maybe the jedi are going to naboo because his character never returned from negotiations. also maul would need to become a general, so lead troops and give orders.
we need men in suits with expensive equipment.
possible way of adding a mask -
I can see the Maul torso falling but never actually hitting the bottom, but being caught in arcing electric currents near the bottom. Stuck in these currents would make him crispy.
Gosh, Ben Danger, I love how enthusiastic this thread can get. But I don't think I understand any of your ideas.
There is no need to have Maul get torn apart in episode I and then torn apart again in episode II. He is simply being rebuilt into Grevious somewhere in the background of episode II until he is somehow revealed.
It would presumably be at this point, when Grevious is unveiled, that he is given the alias of "Grevious" and the title/rank of "General" for his work among the separatists. He need not have ever been a general before.
I can't understand the impulse to hide Christopher Lee's priceless face. He is Jedi Count Dukoo and presents himself as someone with an official capacity-- he pretends to be offended that Obi Wan has been captured. All of this will come off strangely if he wears a mask. What Jedi's wear masks?
The entire "sifo-dias" matter in SOTDS is moot-- the name has been cut. (Hopefully it will be changed even further if we can get the material worked out to replace "sifo-dias" with "Qui Gonn".)
MTHaslett said:
...
There is no need to have Maul get torn apart in episode I and then torn apart again in episode II. He is simply being rebuilt into Grevious somewhere in the background o episode II until he is somehow revealed.
...
This is something I am trying to wrap my head around as well. If we have any indication of Maul in Episode 2, he should be fully formed as grevious. The 10 year gap between Episodes 1 and 2 is too long for him to be floating in a bacta tank.
^^That's true. It reminds me of how the Death Star is almost done in Episode 3, but becomes operational only 20 years later. Then, they build a new, fully operational one in 3 years (ROTJ). Also, how old everyone gets between Ep. III and IV (Owen, Beru, Obi-Wan), is confusing considering it had only been 20 years. If we could figure out some way to make Maul Grievous and Qui-Gon the one who ordered the clones (the latter of which will be easier), it would do a lot for the cohesiveness of the PT. Whereas before, Qui-Gon and Darth Maul had no bearing on the story after Episode I, here they would play an integral role in both Episode II and III. I especially like the idea of the clone army being Qui-Gon's fault and not just Jar-Jar's. One more thing....when Episode II is done, I plan to follow it with a quick pass through Episode III, making the dubs consistent and the major flaws corrected as well as possible. One definite change is that Grievous will be redubbed. I remember seeing ROTS on opening night and being completely distracted by how stupid his voice was. He needs a more sinister voice to make him into something other than a buffoon....
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition
Thanks Sluggo. I take it, you just gave it a look?
The excuses that have to be made to make the "SAGA" work have always bugged me. Worst one to me is why the hell does Obi Wan have to be such a lying a-hole to Luke about his dad. But anyway...
Trying to play along with the way things are in the movies, it doesn't make my head explode to imagine that Death Star II is completed much quicker than version I. Prototypes are often held up by (among many things) the building of tools that need to be invented to actually build the prototype. Once one is built, however, all these things are worked out and building a second is often twice as easy --or easier. (It is also possible that DS II was being built all along-- if one Death Star is enough to rule the galaxy, then Sidious might likely think that two is twice as good).
So if we look at the real world and see how long prototypes can take compared with production models, then the long development of Maul/Grevious may actually be useful to the Saga. After all, how did Sidious become such a masterful cyborg-maker as to rebuild Anakin in what seems like a few hours? Maybe he had years of practice developing General Grevious.
Just thoughts-- I wouldn't put any of these explanations into the movies. They're more like the kind of stuff that should make sense "when you think about it". The whole Saga really works better for me when I let it remain just a little out of focus.
MTHaslett said:
The excuses that have to be made to make the "SAGA" work have always bugged me. Worst one to me is why the hell does Obi Wan have to be such a lying a-hole to Luke about his dad. But anyway...
Trying to play along with the way things are in the movies, it doesn't make my head explode to imagine that Death Star II is completed much quicker than version I. Prototypes are often held up by (among many things) the building of tools that need to be invented to actually build the prototype. Once one is built, however, all these things are worked out and building a second is often twice as easy --or easier. (It is also possible that DS II was being built all along-- if one Death Star is enough to rule the galaxy, then Sidious might likely think that two is twice as good).
So if we look at the real world and see how long prototypes can take compared with production models, then the long development of Maul/Grevious may actually be useful to the Saga. After all, how did Sidious become such a masterful cyborg-maker as to rebuild Anakin in what seems like a few hours? Maybe he had years of practice developing General Grevious.
Just thoughts-- I wouldn't put any of these explanations into the movies. They're more like the kind of stuff that should make sense "when you think about it". The whole Saga really works better for me when I let it remain just a little out of focus.
All good points.. But yeah, I'm afraid that you're right about your last statement, we shouldn't have to think about it to figure it out...
For example... What the heck was the force fields for during the TPM lightsaber fight... I'm sure someone read the novel and can tell me, but if you watch the film, it's like, "What is that?"
mrbenja0618 said:
Thanks Sluggo. I take it, you just gave it a look?
Sorry. Watched what?
The age thing is a bit of a bugger, going by Sir Alec's age Obi-Wan should have been 43 in the ROTS time line.
Ewan's only 39 now (ROTS is already 5 years old, doesn't the time fly?).
I suppose you could put it down to premature aging because of two suns blazing away.
They should have cast Kenneth Branagh (even though Ewan was one of the few decent actors in the bunch).
MTHaslett said:
I can't understand the impulse to hide Christopher Lee's priceless face. He is Jedi Count Dukoo and presents himself as someone with an official capacity-- he pretends to be offended that Obi Wan has been captured. All of this will come off strangely if he wears a mask. What Jedi's wear masks?
The entire "sifo-dias" matter in SOTDS is moot-- the name has been cut. (Hopefully it will be changed even further if we can get the material worked out to replace "sifo-dias" with "Qui Gonn".)
i should have explained more fully. i had this idea ages ago of expanding upon lee's character more, and attempt to turn him into the new vader for the prequels. the use of a mask cold allow more footage to be shot.
specific storyline adustments would suggest that the 'masked lee' is known as count dooku, noone knows his real face. also this could later suggest that his 'real' identity could be the ex-jedi, long believed dead, who ordered the clones. of course much material and dialogue would need to be editted or cut, such as interchanges where characters know his identity.
it may be too far down another line for this edit, let alone difficult.
Bingowings said:
They should have cast Kenneth Branagh (even though Ewan was one of the few decent actors in the bunch).
I thought this same thing!
Sluggo said:
mrbenja0618 said:
Thanks Sluggo. I take it, you just gave it a look?
Sorry. Watched what?
Sorry it was a bit late in the game, but I was referencing you talking about seeing Maul fall into the pit. Thought you may have just watched to scene.
Oh, no.
I saw TPM THIRTEEN times in the theaters. *shame*
I kept trying to figure out why I didn't like it. But I remember the movie very well.
Gotcha.... I understand. I watched it several times myself... Trying....to.....understand.........what.......went.........wrong.
I used to be a news videographer, and I'd always get sent out to shoot car accidents... I recall always seeing traffic backed up around these incidents... Not because of the wreck, but because everyone would slow down to look.... Much like this film..... It's the kind of bad you can't take your eyes off of.
Is it really that simple, though, I wonder to myself. Because I saw it 4 times and enjoyed it every time... and yet.
What I liked most was that it clearly turned the SAGA into 6 films about Darth Vader. I'm one of those guys who pretty much hates ROTJ as a betrayal of everything the first two Star Wars movies got right. To me, that whole new direction Darth Vader took in ROTJ was one of the biggest disappointments in movie history. So to me, TPM was a step in the right direction and it kind of made ROTJ better because it gave this total lame ass "It's too late for me"-Darth Vader character named "Anakin" some background.
But TPM was riddled through with problems. ...Then someone created "The PHantom Edit"... Then I realized the genius of the PT was to give us fans a bunch of half-completed films so that we could have the adult pleasure of "playing Star Wars" by creating fan-edits! It's the grown-up equivalent for the fun I had with Star Wars figures as a kid.
Thank you, George Lucas, for half-assing the PT. Where would we be if you had done it better?
Anyone in the UK here with the workprint? I've contacted trooperman and rather than have him send it, it would be cheaper and more convenient if there's a British member willing to send me a copy. I'll happily cover postage and disk costs.
MTHaslett said:
Is it really that simple, though, I wonder to myself. Because I saw it 4 times and enjoyed it every time... and yet.
What I liked most was that it clearly turned the SAGA into 6 films about Darth Vader. I'm one of those guys who pretty much hates ROTJ as a betrayal of everything the first two Star Wars movies got right. To me, that whole new direction Darth Vader took in ROTJ was one of the biggest disappointments in movie history. So to me, TPM was a step in the right direction and it kind of made ROTJ better because it gave this total lame ass "It's too late for me"-Darth Vader character named "Anakin" some background.
But TPM was riddled through with problems. ...Then someone created "The PHantom Edit"... Then I realized the genius of the PT was to give us fans a bunch of half-completed films so that we could have the adult pleasure of "playing Star Wars" by creating fan-edits! It's the grown-up equivalent for the fun I had with Star Wars figures as a kid.
Thank you, George Lucas, for half-assing the PT. Where would we be if you had done it better?
I agree, I enjoy fanediting, but I don't believe people should make mediocre films to satisfy our need change things.
Ideally, I would rather have the films done right in the first place so I can appreciate and enjoy them now. And TPM was a mess. I understand what you mean by backstory making ROTJ stronger, but the backstory is just riddled with back direction, and no emotion. I personally believe that if TPM had truly been the first Star Wars film, we wouldn't even be here.
Yes, fanediting is fun, but we are left with nearly impossible problems, like making Jar-Jar make sense, and dealing with badly keyed elements in AOTC. (Seriously, it was horrible.)
Of course, this is all my simple opinion, and I realize that art affects people in different ways, and that's the great part about it... But honestly, I do prefer that George put his heart into this like he did when he was younger.
Besides, The Empire Strikes back to me is a perfect movie, but yet, Adywan is making it even stronger.... Lucas could have given us the right movies and I don't think it would have killed SW fanediting. =) No disrespect though, MTHaslett.
Now, i'll stop hijacking the thread. How's it coming, TM?
I want to get my dialogue done as my time looks pretty busy in the fall. Maybe we can focus on that. The toughest part about 'community edits' is it seems impossible to nail a good idea down.
Sluggo... You're working on Dooku?
Dubbing, yes.